Recruiting - Tale of The Tape

[pittmeister]

2017 Recruiting Class:

2016 Recruiting Class:

The classes are pretty similar. We had eight 4 star players last year, and seven 4 star players this year.

 

[MajorMajors]

Best overall talent we've had on the team in a long, long time. Best part is that if Coach Duzz and staff can continue to recruit in this manner, the team will just get better and better over the next few years...

Go Pitt.

 

[steel_curtain]

Best overall talent we've had on the team in a long, long time. Best part is that if Coach Duzz and staff can continue to recruit in this manner, the team will just get better and better over the next few years...

Go Pitt.

-Narduzzi doesnt recruit smurfs, besides Wade. All the secondary players besides Mathis are over 6'0 minimum. All the WR's and TE's are big and athletic. All the olinemen coming in are huge players and most are coming into the program over 300lbs. 2 QB's that are 6'5. We are going after big players and athletes, and that is what Florida gives you. And a number of the players we continue to get run track. Good things are going to happen when you have a big fast team. Players like Henderson and Weah show you what an athlete does, 11 yards per carry in college for one and 24 yards per catch for the other, which is sick. Big fast Athletes will get this program rolling. Line up an offense that has legit 4.5 speed all over and not Penn State inflated 40 times, and good luck to the defense stopping it.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Good breakdown.

Thanks for posting.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I appreciate the spreadsheet – It looks great.

However, please remove from that equation George Hill, Zach Gilbert and Zack Williams. None of those guys is ever going to play a down for the University of Pittsburgh and therefore should not be counted.

 

[H2Pittisit]

I appreciate the spreadsheet – It looks great.

However, please remove from that equation George Hill, Zach Gilbert and Zack Williams. None of those guys is ever going to play a down for the University of Pittsburgh and therefore should not be counted.

That really changes the dynamic of last years class and drops us to about the 40th ranked class, so this class ends up being slightly better or tied with last year

 

[9nationalchampionships]

While true if you are looking at recruiting these players are applicable. At the time they were recruited they were thought to be viable players. Just my thought.

I appreciate the spreadsheet – It looks great.

However, please remove from that equation George Hill, Zach Gilbert and Zack Williams. None of those guys is ever going to play a down for the University of Pittsburgh and therefore should not be counted.

 

[pittmeister]

While true if you are looking at recruiting these players are applicable. At the time they were recruited they were thought to be viable players. Just my thought.

Correct! The 2016 recruiting spreadsheet was made this time last year. The comparison is to measure how well we are doing in recruiting.

 

[Jeffburgh]

2017 Recruiting Class:

2016 Recruiting Class:

The classes are pretty similar. We had eight 4 star players last year, and seven 4 star players this year.

A few thoughts.

Nice job on the spreadsheets.

I get the point about Hill, Gilbert and Wallace, but EVERY class for every school has similar attrition for the most part, we just don't know because we are all in the weeds with Pitt. Very likely this class takes some hits before the first game in the fall, too.

I think overall, last year was a bit more solid throughout, this year thins out a little more questions Tucker, Butler, Carrigan.

The sleepers/under recruited kids in this class might be a bit better.

Paris is the most talented kid/best player he has gotten to this point.

Last year's class' talent was defensive leaning, this class offensive leaning.

Reeves, Sibley, Davis and Smith are the best group of offensive skill prospects the program has pulled in a long time.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

A few thoughts.

Nice job on the spreadsheets.

I get the point about Hill, Gilbert and Wallace, but EVERY class for every school has similar attrition for the most part, we just don't know because we are all in the weeds with Pitt. Very likely this class takes some hits before the first game in the fall, too.

I think overall, last year was a bit more solid throughout, this year thins out a little more questions Tucker, Butler, Carrigan.

The sleepers/under recruited kids in this class might be a bit better.

Paris is the most talented kid/best player he has gotten to this point.

Last year's class' talent was defensive leaning, this class offensive leaning.

Reeves, Sibley, Davis and Smith are the best group of offensive skill prospects the program has pulled in a long time.

I would add Clark and Browne to your last paragraph. Although they are transfers, they are still recruited to come to PITT.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I would add Clark and Browne to your last paragraph. Although they are transfers, they are still recruited to come to PITT.

Sure ...

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Sure ...

Cool.....

 

[Las Panteras]

Question for the recruiting students here.

I know George hill was a big get for PN

How would a healthy Hill change the dynamic??

What position would he play? How would this year's class be reconfigured if at all??

Thanks

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Question for the recruiting students here.

I know George hill was a big get for PN

How would a healthy Hill change the dynamic??

What position would he play? How would this year's class be reconfigured if at all??

Thanks

Likely would have landed at the RB position. He was very dynamic or of the backfield with elite speed. If he had some success last year, it's likely both Sibley and Davis don't end up at PITT. Just my opinion.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Likely would have landed at the RB position. He was very dynamic or of the backfield with elite speed. If he had some success last year, it's likely both Sibley and Davis don't end up at PITT. Just my opinion.

The 2017 Class looks better than 2016 since Pitt lost some due to Medical Redshirts.

Pitt has so much more to do to compete with OSU, Michigan, ND, Miami, and PSU. These Programs are hard to stay up with based on them having well established Recruiting Programs with so many advanatges.

Pitt needs to hire the Right People to augment Pitt Athletic Department Recruiting and must stay with VT, UNC, and Clemson shows the Blueprint to do it.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Correct! The 2016 recruiting spreadsheet was made this time last year. The comparison is to measure how well we are doing in recruiting.

But it completely misses the broader point. You recruit players to win games, not for the sake of bragging in February.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

A few thoughts.

Nice job on the spreadsheets.

I get the point about Hill, Gilbert and Wallace, but EVERY class for every school has similar attrition for the most part, we just don't know because we are all in the weeds with Pitt. Very likely this class takes some hits before the first game in the fall, too.

I think overall, last year was a bit more solid throughout, this year thins out a little more questions Tucker, Butler, Carrigan.

The sleepers/under recruited kids in this class might be a bit better.

Paris is the most talented kid/best player he has gotten to this point.

Last year's class' talent was defensive leaning, this class offensive leaning.

Reeves, Sibley, Davis and Smith are the best group of offensive skill prospects the program has pulled in a long time.

Everything you say is undeniably true. However, that's just how it goes.

I think this strikes at the heart of my issue with this weird recruiting subculture. It is so much more theoretical and subjective and so much more vulnerable to spin and marketing that it just doesn't appeal to me at all.

Who cares how well we did theoretically? I care how well we did practically.

My sole intereste in recruiting is how it impacts the Pitt program on the field, not how good it quite possibly very well could make us look to some guy in Iowa or Texas or California – who doesn't really give a shitt about us anyway.

I don't care if we're ranked 33rd or 40th or 53rd because you may as well throw all of those numbers into a hat and randomly choose one because that's basically what these evaluators are doing as they parse this collection of good but not elite athletes from a bunch of other collections of good but not elite athletes.

To even call it "guess work" is really being generous to the entire process.

So, as we evaluate the past two recruiting classes right now, in the first week of February, in the year of our Lord 2017, you can't evaluate these classes without taking away the guys who are no longer here and who will never be here.

That's really all that matters, guys. Who is helping the University of Pittsburgh win football games and who is not? To look at it any other way is to view things upside down.

 

[HunkyPanther]

But it completely misses the broader point. You recruit players to win games, not for the sake of bragging in February.

BUT...the OP is not trying to make the broader point. He is simply comparing recruiting, and like was mentioned by a previous poster, ALL teams go through attrition. Nobody can help we don't have those three players.

 

[PhPanther1]

Everything you say is undeniably true. However, that's just how it goes.

I think this strikes at the heart of my issue with this weird recruiting subculture. It is so much more theoretical and subjective and so much more vulnerable to spin and marketing that it just doesn't appeal to me at all.

Who cares how well we did theoretically? I care how well we did practically.

My sole intereste in recruiting is how it impacts the Pitt program on the field, not how good it quite possibly very well could make us look to some guy in Iowa or Texas or California – who doesn't really give a shitt about us anyway.

I don't care if we're ranked 33rd or 40th or 53rd because you may as well throw all of those numbers into a hat and randomly choose one because that's basically what these evaluators are doing as they parse this collection of good but not elite athletes from a bunch of other collections of good but not elite athletes.

To even call it "guess work" is really being generous to the entire process.

So, as we evaluate the past two recruiting classes right now, in the first week of February, in the year of our Lord 2017, you can't evaluate these classes without taking away the guys who are no longer here and who will never be here.

That's really all that matters, guys. Who is helping the University of Pittsburgh win football games and who is not? To look at it any other way is to view things upside down.

Why do you follow college football then? The entire sport is decided by voters from Texas, Iowa, Florida's perception of your school. Until they say all conference champs play in a playoff, the sport is a popularity contest.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

A little more than a decade ago West Virginia landed a five star running back out of Long Island named Jason Gwaltney.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/high-...-rise-and-fall-of-a-football-legend-1.4552383

They were so excited to have probably the highest rated recruit in their programs history. He was going to lead them to great things.

Be honest, how many of you college football fanatics have ever even heard of Jason Gwaltney?

Do you know why? Because he was a bust, that's why. If you were to travel to Morgantown for a game, you are not likely to see many Jason Gwaltney jerseys in the stands.

West Virginia went on to win games but their stud running backs were Steve Slaton and Noel Devine - lesser regarded prospects but better college football players.

I just think bragging about recruiting classes without considering the actual impact they have on your team completely misses the point of the entire process.

It is like bragging about an NFL team's draft without considering how well they actually played. That doesn't make any sense.

If the Steelers had three first-round picks last year and had to cut all three for various reasons – criminal, medical, etc. – did they have a good draft?

Not in my book, they didn't. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why the draft didn't work out well for my team, only that the draft did not work out well for my team.

It's the same with recruiting. It's not anyone's fault that these guys all fell into career ending medical issues. However, at the end of the day that's where we are and ultimately, that's all that really matters.

 

[PhPanther1]

The perception of your team in the eyes of high school kids is the most important thing Pitt should focus on.

 

[steel_curtain]

A little more than a decade ago West Virginia landed a five star running back out of Long Island named Jason Gwaltney.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/high-...-rise-and-fall-of-a-football-legend-1.4552383

They were so excited to have probably the highest rated recruit in their programs history. He was going to lead them to great things.

Be honest, how many of you college football fanatics have ever even heard of Jason Gwaltney?

Do you know why? Because he was a bust, that's why. If you were to travel to Morgantown for a game, you are not likely to see many Jason Gwaltney jerseys in the stands.

West Virginia went on to win games but their stud running backs were Steve Slaton and Noel Devine - lesser regarded prospects but better college football players.

I just think bragging about recruiting classes without considering the actual impact they have on your team completely misses the point of the entire process.

It is like bragging about an NFL team's draft without considering how well they actually played. That doesn't make any sense.

If the Steelers had three first-round picks last year and had to cut all three for various reasons – criminal, medical, etc. – did they have a good draft?

Not in my book, they didn't. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why the draft didn't work out well for my team, only that the draft did not work out well for my team.

It's the same with recruiting. It's not anyone's fault that these guys all fell into career ending medical issues. However, at the end of the day that's where we are and ultimately, that's all that really matters.

-He ran a 4.9 40 at the combine. How this kid was a 5 star player is laughable. The same can be said for Ricky Slade, the new smurf Penn State commit with a 4.5 40.

-When recruiting rankings actually factor in meaningful stats along with size and speed, stats NFL GM's use to draft players, then they can be taken a bit more seriously. There is a reason there is an NFL combine. Slow players and smurfs should automatically be downgraded because of future potential alone.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Why do you follow college football then? The entire sport is decided by voters from Texas, Iowa, Florida's perception of your school. Until they say all conference champs play in a playoff, the sport is a popularity contest.

I know, its crazy, right? I guess I just have this quixotic notion that one day all of these bright and mostly college educated people will eventually figure out that they are continually having their pockets picked left and right.

I follow college football for the same reason I follow all sports – for what actually happens on the field of play.

If you ever want to see me lose my mind watch a game with me whenever an announcer says, "You know, it's just a shame that one of these two teams has to lose."

No. It. Is. Not! In fact, that's precisely why we are watching it in the first place.

That phrase – which is used all the damn time – drives me bananas and is literally the dumbest cliche in sports history.

 

[pittmeister]

A little more than a decade ago West Virginia landed a five star running back out of Long Island named Jason Gwaltney.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/high-...-rise-and-fall-of-a-football-legend-1.4552383

They were so excited to have probably the highest rated recruit in their programs history. He was going to lead them to great things.

Be honest, how many of you college football fanatics have ever even heard of Jason Gwaltney?

Do you know why? Because he was a bust, that's why. If you were to travel to Morgantown for a game, you are not likely to see many Jason Gwaltney jerseys in the stands.

West Virginia went on to win games but their stud running backs were Steve Slaton and Noel Devine - lesser regarded prospects but better college football players.

I just think bragging about recruiting classes without considering the actual impact they have on your team completely misses the point of the entire process.

It is like bragging about an NFL team's draft without considering how well they actually played. That doesn't make any sense.

If the Steelers had three first-round picks last year and had to cut all three for various reasons – criminal, medical, etc. – did they have a good draft?

Not in my book, they didn't. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why the draft didn't work out well for my team, only that the draft did not work out well for my team.

It's the same with recruiting. It's not anyone's fault that these guys all fell into career ending medical issues. However, at the end of the day that's where we are and ultimately, that's all that really matters.

"I just think bragging about recruiting classes without considering the actual impact they have on your team completely misses the point of the entire process"

I suggest you start your own thread and discuss recruits that made no impact on their team. That is a different issue. My thread is only to compare last year's recruiting class to this year's recruiting class. Point being that many posters questioned Narduzzi's recruiting ability a few weeks ago. I am saying it is on par with what he did last year when everyone thought he did great...

Ok?

 

[RoguePanther]

Since you are tracking this so closely, I'm curious to know how may players each year had an Alabama or higher level SEC offer? I know we got a hand full this year that were offered by Bama, which to me, carries some weight.

Before folks jump all over me, I know offers don't mean everything, but if your good enough to play for the best programs in the country, your good enough to play for my team - the PITT Panthers.

 

[thebadby2]

-Narduzzi doesnt recruit smurfs, besides Wade. All the secondary players besides Mathis are over 6'0 minimum. All the WR's and TE's are big and athletic. All the olinemen coming in are huge players and most are coming into the program over 300lbs. 2 QB's that are 6'5. We are going after big players and athletes, and that is what Florida gives you. And a number of the players we continue to get run track. Good things are going to happen when you have a big fast team. Players like Henderson and Weah show you what an athlete does, 11 yards per carry in college for one and 24 yards per catch for the other, which is sick. Big fast Athletes will get this program rolling. Line up an offense that has legit 4.5 speed all over and not Penn State inflated 40 times, and good luck to the defense stopping it.

Henderson is a "smurf". Should we pull his scholarship and never offer a 5'8 guy again?

 

[steel_curtain]

Henderson is a "smurf". Should we pull his scholarship and never offer a 5'8 guy again?

-No. Because he is track star with true 4.3ish speed and has been blowing by defenders for years just like Smith blew by every DB in Florida that couldnt touch his speed. And I said before, if you are under 5'9, you better have elite speed or Barry Sanders cut ability.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

-No. Because he is track star with true 4.3ish speed and has been blowing by defenders for years just like Smith blew by every DB in Florida that couldnt touch his speed. And I said before, if you are under 5'9, you better have elite speed or Barry Sanders cut ability.

And they better play offense as a RB or slot receiver and/or be a kick returner. Smurf DBs are a major liability in pass coversge vs tall receivers no matter their speed and shiftiness.

 

[PittSquared]

I appreciate the spreadsheet – It looks great.

However, please remove from that equation George Hill, Zach Gilbert and Zack Williams. None of those guys is ever going to play a down for the University of Pittsburgh and therefore should not be counted.

I understand that Gilbert is a big question mark, but last I saw he was still working out with the team. Is he now off the roster?

 

[pittdan77]

But it completely misses the broader point. You recruit players to win games, not for the sake of bragging in February.

Well, not at Pitt but some fan bases seem to live and breath for recruiting "victories".

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

"I just think bragging about recruiting classes without considering the actual impact they have on your team completely misses the point of the entire process"

I suggest you start your own thread and discuss recruits that made no impact on their team. That is a different issue. My thread is only to compare last year's recruiting class to this year's recruiting class. Point being that many posters questioned Narduzzi's recruiting ability a few weeks ago. I am saying it is on par with what he did last year when everyone thought he did great...

Ok?

No, I got you. And I promise I wasn't trying to hijack your thread and I will bow out of it after this post. You did a great job in putting that info together.

I was just making the point that theoretical psuedo-victories are completely meaningless - especially when trying to parse middle of the road programs like ours. Real, tangible, on-the-field of play wins are all that matters. Recruiting is a necessary evil because it is a means to an end. However, it is not the end in and of itself - or at least it shouldn't be.

As such, in my book, a guy like George Hill is a miss. You could even call him a bust if you'd like. It's not his fault that he busted. Hell, it's nobody's fault that he's a miss but nobody should be credited there either because he didn't do a single thing to actually help the program succeed where it matters: on the field of play. Using Hill in a positive context is at best naive and at worst disingenuous, IMHO.

To me that's like listing a guy who failed to qualify as a big signee. I'm sure schools do it but if he's never going to play for your school, how is he really helping you besides on the mythical "perception" front?

You don't change perceptions on signing day. You change them through on-field success, not out of season hoopla and other phony gimmickry.

 

[NittanyJP]

-He ran a 4.9 40 at the combine. How this kid was a 5 star player is laughable. The same can be said for Ricky Slade, the new smurf Penn State commit with a 4.5 40.

-When recruiting rankings actually factor in meaningful stats along with size and speed, stats NFL GM's use to draft players, then they can be taken a bit more seriously. There is a reason there is an NFL combine. Slow players and smurfs should automatically be downgraded because of future potential alone.

Pitt offered Slade. As did about 30 other schools. They must see something different.

 

[steel_curtain]

Pitt offered Slade. As did about 30 other schools. They must see something different.

-I never said he would not be any good. I clearly said he is no where close to a 5 star best RB in the country

 

[NittanyJP]

-I never said he would not be any good. I clearly said he is no where close to a 5 star best RB in the country

The evaluation of players is always all over the place. Journey Brown was barely ranked but is 5'11" 185 and a the fastest person in PA in the 60 yard dash. Ran for 700 yards in a game. By many accounts should be a 4 or 5 star but was a two star. Didn't go to camps, was low key with interwiews.

 

[steel_curtain]

The evaluation of players is always all over the place. Journey Brown was barely ranked but is 5'11" 185 and a the fastest person in PA in the 60 yard dash. Ran for 700 yards in a game. By many accounts should be a 4 or 5 star but was a two star. Didn't go to camps, was low key with interwiews.

-Im well aware of Brown. He's a 11 100M guy with a best of 10.6M in the 100. That's at 195lb with a 4.1 shuttle and 39 inch vertical, not official. If those numbers are official, he is a very impressive athlete. Even if they are lower, it is still very impressive. Those are the types of players I like because it screams high upside. That's a player I would be bragging about.

 

[colingrant2]

Best overall talent we've had on the team in a long, long time. Best part is that if Coach Duzz and staff can continue to recruit in this manner, the team will just get better and better over the next few years...

Go Pitt.

Extremely well done! Appreciate it.