Reds take 2 of 3 from Suckos
- Thread starter Dan1911
- Start date
Two things that frustrate me about this team,
1. Even if the talent is not there yet, it’s obvious that Shelton is not a good manager. His lineups and rest day decisions leave a lot to be desired.
2. If we’re going to lose, we might as well have Cruz and Contreras up here getting experience. In theory, this would’ve been the perfect series to do it, especially for Cruz who was in a slump to begin the season.
1. Even if the talent is not there yet, it’s obvious that Shelton is not a good manager. His lineups and rest day decisions leave a lot to be desired.
2. If we’re going to lose, we might as well have Cruz and Contreras up here getting experience. In theory, this would’ve been the perfect series to do it, especially for Cruz who was in a slump to begin the season.
Moran has 2 HR's and 15 RBI's so far while $70 million dollar man Hayes has 0 HR's and 7 RBI's so far. Pretty sad.
And our 1st rounder Tucker is hitting, at last check, about a buck sixty-five.
He seems like a really nice guy, good locker room guy. It’s time for him to be optioned down. He’s had too many opportunities and it seems like he’s actually regressing.
I get the feeling they’ve been trying him in the outfield because he’s soon to be bumped from shortstop with the guys coming up, but he just can’t hit.
So in the first round the Pirates take fielders who can't hit(Tucker) and hitters that can't field (Alvarez)..(who eventually couldn't hit, either).
Cole Tucker sucks, has never hit anywhere throughout the minors and majors. He is the textbook definition of first round bust. The fact that he continues to get ample playing time is an insult to the fans.
Then there's Shelton who decided to give Ke'Bryan Hayes a day off yesterday even though they were rained out Friday and only played 4 games the whole week smh. Hayes' father Charlie even was shocked, on twitter he tweeted 'What?' after it was announced lol.
Shelton is a bargain basement garbage manager but the team is mostly a collection of bums and stiffs that have no long term future at all. They fit the mold for teams like the Pirates because they can masquerade as major league ballplayers on the cheap. Just how Nutting likes it.
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I hate to disappoint you, but Cruz should be going back to Altoona not Pittsburgh. He’s hitting below .200 at AAA.
Yup. I feel like this dude is massively overhyped. Either that or he needs to get traded to another organization that can bring out his full potential. Like many can't miss guys in the Pirates farm system, he seems like another who won't meet or exceed the expectations. And I would bet that the coaches and who the Pirates employ down in the minors are probably not the best and the brightest. Cheapness permeates through the Pirates organization and that includes coaches.
You gotta hit to play corner outfield, so he is obviously out of place there.
Yeah the Moran show yesterday was bad, but I actually thought game 1 on Saturday was the worst ... your backup catcher gets thrown out for saying something stupid to the ump, then your starting catcher collapses when he is running the bases where he should have easily gotten to third with nobody out. All momentum totally lost at the point -- you don't score at the top of that inning stranding runners at bases loaded, and in the bottom of the inning your utility tries his darndest but simply can't catch like a major leaguer and you give up 7 runs.
Hayes as the face of the franchise has always been a little odd to me. I get that he's a great defender, but third base is usually one of the positions where poor defenders are buried. It's not like he's a shortstop or centerfielder, where defense can have a huge impact on the game. I realize everything is a bit more blurred now, but you almost need to have someone with such little amount of power to play the middle infield. Although I guess the plan is to supplement his lack of power by having an 8-foot shortstop in O'Neil Cruz. I've never seen him play defense, but how can you be an effective MLB shortstop at 6'7"? It's just not possible. And I've heard he doesn't want to move to the outfield.
I agree on Shelton. He's not even really being graded yet, because he's just a babysitter for now. But from what little I've watched over the years, he doesn't impress me.
I keep hearing that we're loaded in the minors, but we don't have the horses down there that we had when we made our most recent playoff run. It's not like Cole, McCutchen, Alvarez, Walker, etc. are down they, are they? I'm pretty skeptical of how good this group can actually be. We have such a losing culture that it almost makes it even more difficult.
And lastly, I'm surprised that we couldn't get anything for Moran. I mean, I was also surprised when we couldn't get anything for Pedro, so what do I know? But Moran can probably give you something close to .260 with 20 home runs in an ideal season. It seems like the league picks and chooses when that is good enough. Not saying he is a good player by any means.
I agree on Shelton. He's not even really being graded yet, because he's just a babysitter for now. But from what little I've watched over the years, he doesn't impress me.
I keep hearing that we're loaded in the minors, but we don't have the horses down there that we had when we made our most recent playoff run. It's not like Cole, McCutchen, Alvarez, Walker, etc. are down they, are they? I'm pretty skeptical of how good this group can actually be. We have such a losing culture that it almost makes it even more difficult.
And lastly, I'm surprised that we couldn't get anything for Moran. I mean, I was also surprised when we couldn't get anything for Pedro, so what do I know? But Moran can probably give you something close to .260 with 20 home runs in an ideal season. It seems like the league picks and chooses when that is good enough. Not saying he is a good player by any means.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I don't find anything outrageous or unusual about the Pirates losing games they should win but there isn't any proof they're better than Cincy. I'd say Cincy has played a bit tougher schedule at this point but both clubs are pretty terrible.
I dunno about this site specifically, but I’m pretty convinced that Nutting has his minions monitoring sites of public opinion all the time. I think they must go by the rule that “any feedback is good feedback” in that if there is sufficient commentary, even it is exclusively complaining, that indicates they haven’t lost the fanbase yet; negative passion is still passion. Seeing, hearing or reading absolutely nothing at all would be far more alarming to them. Because apathy is harder to reverse than negativity.
I guess Pedro would have a place in today’s MLB since the National League introduced the DH.
I guess Pedro would have a place in today’s MLB since the National League introduced the DH.
That's why I was shocked we couldn't deal him to the American League. And then I was shocked he didn't last in Baltimore. In a full season, he was basically going to give you 30 - 35 home runs while hitting .230 - .250. Seems like there were plenty of other guys who were on rosters with similar numbers. I guess you could argue his strikeouts were inordinately high, but dudes like Adam Dunn always seemed to find a landing spot.
I’ll always have a soft spot for him because he had some fun moments when the team was good again. I, too, was surprised by quickly his career fizzled out. Funny thing is, we essentially got the same player a couple years later in Josh Bell.
Apparently Mason Martin might be that type of guy in a few years. We’ll see…
Yeah, I definitely get not wanting him in the field after he contracted Knoblauchitis. But even in his last season, he had 8 homers in 111 at-bats, which projects to 40 over an entire season. Like you said, it just seemed to happen so fast. I'm shocked he couldn't even be a reclamation project for a bad team.
I would argue that a quality defensive 3B fills a big hole for the Pirates given the instability they've had there over the years. Yes, you can stick a guy like Moran (he was better than what came before him) there but his defense was still far below Hayes'. And Moran was better than Harrison who was better than Alvarez.
Hayes will be a good value contract if he can continue to hit for average and eventually show modest power (15-20 HR/year). And avoid injuries. Those two things are the big question marks.
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Dude you don't pay $70 million for a glorified singles hitter with little power who now has started to make errors on routine plays. Over a month in and he has ZERO HR's and a measly 7 RBI's. That's pathetic.
I definitely think he's a good player. But I don't think he warrants the contract we gave him (in the open market quite possibly, but not in "Pirate money") or the push we've made to sort of make him the face of the franchise. I guess you have to work with what you've got. I just don't see his game as that impactful in modern baseball. It feels like having a really good guard in football or something. It's great and all, but you're not going very far if he's the best player on your team.
Yeah I'll agree that the order of things seems off given all of their needs. But perhaps they feel the expenditure right now (his salary drops off to 7M per year after 2023) makes sense given they aren't paying anyone else. And, to be honest, this team is doomed if a bunch of their other prospects don't pan out anyways. So in a few years Hayes is either making 7M on a good team full of cheap young players or he is making 7M on a team that still stinks. But in either case they probably aren't going to be spending what they need to spend.
Yes, it certainly hasn't been a great start. They are banking on improvements that haven't happened yet which is the only reason they were able to sign him.
Hayes deal is so cheap though. Even if he doesn't improve with the bat it won't be a horrible deal for a great defensive player. It says a lot about the Pirates that signing him to a 10 million a year deal qualifies as some sort of positive PR. If he gets better at all that contract will be a huge bargain to whatever team we trade Hayes to in 3 years.
Agreed on him not being an impact guy though- there is a reason he agreed to that extension, and it's because Nolan Arenado he is not.
It sucks that this has to be our business model. Even if he does improve his slugging to a point where the deal becomes a huge bargain for the Pirates, you just have a grossly underpaid player who would rather be any place else in a few years. It's like you're just doomed to fail one way or the other.
It is why I have mostly given up. The way the team operates they will never be good unless multiple stars come up at the same time. Hayes was supposed to be one of them. I'm not writing him off at this point, but him being a good but not great player is almost a death sentence for this team being good in the next few years. We need to find a McCutchen and a Marte before we worry about the nice role players, which is what Hayes has been so far.
PIrate Beat writer Mackey tweeted out that we have yet to have a starting pitcher record a win this year. i thought no way that's possible but it is. 27 games in and we havent had a starting pitcher get a win yet.. that's awesome.
Yup and hitting around .200. I didn't mention him since he isn't locked up long-term. And based on how he is playing maybe the cheapo Pirates dodged a bullet on that one. He stunk in 2020 covid year, had a nice season last year and thus far in 2022 hasn't been very good. I just don't think he is worth some $100 million plus contract at this point. And certainly after the Hayes deal Nutting has that checkbook locked in a safe.
How many times do these guys put runners on second and third with nobody out . . . and come up empty? THIS time, after the second out, in this clutch situation, they go to a pinch hitter . . . none other than Cole Sucker! Predictable result.
I'm in Los Angeles (still in the office) listening to the Dodgers radio broadcast. That crew (including old friend Tim Neverett) is literally laughing at how pathetic this bunch is. Amazing they still have a lead . . . but this can't hold up.
Oh, it's guaranteed it won't hold up. He's bringing in Crowe . . .
I'm in Los Angeles (still in the office) listening to the Dodgers radio broadcast. That crew (including old friend Tim Neverett) is literally laughing at how pathetic this bunch is. Amazing they still have a lead . . . but this can't hold up.
Oh, it's guaranteed it won't hold up. He's bringing in Crowe . . .
And they are up 3-0 tonight in the eighth against the best team in baseball. Although I agree Shelton is a horrible manager and has cost at least a few games already this year leaving pitchers in too long
Moran: .207/.269/.379
Hayes: .333/.417/.419
Reynolds: .235/.330/.398
I mean good lord, Reynolds got off to an awful start but he's been better than Moran by a pretty good margin, and Hayes is so much better than Moran at this point that they aren't even on the same planet.
But hey, Moran had that one good game that you paid attention to on Saturday, so he must be doing great this season.
Kind of a silly topic. Pirates rolled the Dodgers tonight. The Reds blew out the Brewers and have now won 3 of 4.
Baseball is too long of a season. The Reds weren’t going to go 3-159, and I’m sure they will win some more series.
Baseball is too long of a season. The Reds weren’t going to go 3-159, and I’m sure they will win some more series.
I think it’s also important to remember that Hayes is more of a contact hitter, not as likely to hit one out of the park. I’ll take that and his defense all day.
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