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Rinse Repeat.....

pittbb80

Chancellor
Oct 9, 2004
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After a humiliating loss its understandable that a segment of the fan base will be claiming doom and gloom. However those calling for Duzz head and hoping this Pitt admin hires some sort of messiah are fooling themselves and have not learned from history. The Likelihood of Pitt putting up huge cash ($4MM Plus) to get a coach who "might" be able to out recruit and out coach Narduzzi are slim and none and Slim left town. Theres perhaps less than a handful of coaches (Meyer, Saban, etc) that could theoretically come in and recruit well enough to win within 2-3 years. Simply shelling out money for a coach is NOT going to solve the problem and the few who theoretically could solve the problem are not realistic options unless you live in some parallel universe.

Secondly, you are assuming the Pitt administration would be able to hire a good coach to replace Duzz. Lets look at the history of Pitt Hires beginning with Stallings, Haymaker, Graham, Hackett, JM2, etc. The odds of hiring someone far worse and driving this program completely into the ground are far greater than even hiring someone at the same level as Duzz.

Finally, its way to early to be looking to talk about firing Narduzzi.

Heres some facts to consider.

1. Hes had more big wins (PSU, Clemson) and fewer humiliating losses (no Youngstown states, no BG, etc) than any coach in a long time.

2. Hes won 8 games the first two years. Yes this year looks like a transition year but there is some good talent on this roster.

3. Anyone who thought this team was going to be better than last years wasnt being realistic. They lost a guy at QB who is an NFL caliber QB. Browne lost out to two guys at USC for a reason. Hes a statue and is not very decisive throwing the ball. DInucci was essentially a walk on. Unless you have a phenom frosh QB standing on the sidelines, the offense was not going to be near as good. THen add in JC, and the two OL not to mention Price, and the other seniors they lost and thats a ton of talent they lost from a team that was decent, not great.

4. They do have talent with a high upside. The problem is most of its young. PItts a program that will not be getting guys who can step right in and dominate. Very few programs can. Much like the hoops program they have to recruit and develop players. There will be years where the talent overall has not been fully developed and the team takes a step back. This appears to be one of those.

Now if two years from now we are having the same conversation then I'd say its time to rinse repeat and try another coach. However, I think Duzz has shown enough potential to achieve what I think are reasonable goals for this program which is average about 8-9 wins, be in contention for the coastal more often than not and compete for a play off spot once every 5 to 10 years. It takes time to build that sort of stable program. Duzz inherited a train wreck on defense. Hes two years in with really only one complete recruiting class of his own. Once his first two full classes are Juniors and Seniors then we'll be able to see if hes the right man for the job.
 
agreed, good post. too many youngsters this, year, no LB's

Yeah if you want to criticize Duzz for one thing its his inability to recruit D1 LBs. I guess we'll have to wait to see how the frosh look but the guys we have now are not very good
 
If we beat GT, we have Rice, Cuse, VA and Duke coming up. All those are very winnable. GT is an absolutely enormous game! It seems like every year this team is on the cusp of oblivion and we need to beat GT to keep from imploding. The last 2 years we survived by the skin of our teeth and had decent seasons. Let's just take care of GT and move forward.
 
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After a humiliating loss its understandable that a segment of the fan base will be claiming doom and gloom. However those calling for Duzz head and hoping this Pitt admin hires some sort of messiah are fooling themselves and have not learned from history. The Likelihood of Pitt putting up huge cash ($4MM Plus) to get a coach who "might" be able to out recruit and out coach Narduzzi are slim and none and Slim left town. Theres perhaps less than a handful of coaches (Meyer, Saban, etc) that could theoretically come in and recruit well enough to win within 2-3 years. Simply shelling out money for a coach is NOT going to solve the problem and the few who theoretically could solve the problem are not realistic options unless you live in some parallel universe.

Secondly, you are assuming the Pitt administration would be able to hire a good coach to replace Duzz. Lets look at the history of Pitt Hires beginning with Stallings, Haymaker, Graham, Hackett, JM2, etc. The odds of hiring someone far worse and driving this program completely into the ground are far greater than even hiring someone at the same level as Duzz.

Finally, its way to early to be looking to talk about firing Narduzzi.

Heres some facts to consider.

1. Hes had more big wins (PSU, Clemson) and fewer humiliating losses (no Youngstown states, no BG, etc) than any coach in a long time.

2. Hes won 8 games the first two years. Yes this year looks like a transition year but there is some good talent on this roster.

3. Anyone who thought this team was going to be better than last years wasnt being realistic. They lost a guy at QB who is an NFL caliber QB. Browne lost out to two guys at USC for a reason. Hes a statue and is not very decisive throwing the ball. DInucci was essentially a walk on. Unless you have a phenom frosh QB standing on the sidelines, the offense was not going to be near as good. THen add in JC, and the two OL not to mention Price, and the other seniors they lost and thats a ton of talent they lost from a team that was decent, not great.

4. They do have talent with a high upside. The problem is most of its young. PItts a program that will not be getting guys who can step right in and dominate. Very few programs can. Much like the hoops program they have to recruit and develop players. There will be years where the talent overall has not been fully developed and the team takes a step back. This appears to be one of those.

Now if two years from now we are having the same conversation then I'd say its time to rinse repeat and try another coach. However, I think Duzz has shown enough potential to achieve what I think are reasonable goals for this program which is average about 8-9 wins, be in contention for the coastal more often than not and compete for a play off spot once every 5 to 10 years. It takes time to build that sort of stable program. Duzz inherited a train wreck on defense. Hes two years in with really only one complete recruiting class of his own. Once his first two full classes are Juniors and Seniors then we'll be able to see if hes the right man for the job.


Finally, a voice of reason. +1.
 
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If we beat GT, we have Rice, Cuse, VA and Duke coming up. All those are very winnable. GT is an absolutely enormous game! It seems like every year this team is on the cusp of oblivion and we need to beat GT to keep from imploding. The last 2 years we survived by the skin of our teeth and had decent seasons. Let's just take care of GT and move forward.


Im headed to the GT game but Im not very confident. To beat VT they'll need a very good DL and I think our DL at this point is just too green and our LBs are pedestrian. With our offense in disarray, I just dont see them coming out with a W.
 
Finally, a voice of reason. +1.

I agree with everything Pittbb80 stated about giving Duzz time and I said as much in my post. I just hate the fact that this is were we find ourselves again. Can anyone name me another school that finds itself in this situation as much as Pitt? While other programs say it, no other program says "in 2-3 years when the current players are juniors and seniors" as much as Pitt does, atleast that is how it feels to me. I am not expecting Pitt to compete for the National title here, but was/is it asking too much to win the old BE or the coastal now every 4 years or so? Is it asking too much to finish in the top 25 (not top 5, 10 or 15) more than 5 times in 35 years? For the love of God, the WPIAL and PA football is still one of the better areas/states for football talent. It is not what it use to be when it was 1 or 2 but it is still 6-9 areas in the country. Supplement it with Ohio/NJ/Maryland/VA and Florida and there is no reason to not be top 15 year in year out, yet only 5 top 25 finishes in 35 years.

I hope and want Duzz to succeed, and I am willing to give him time, but I am sick of every year minus a year here and there were I am giving more time.
 
After a humiliating loss its understandable that a segment of the fan base will be claiming doom and gloom. However those calling for Duzz head and hoping this Pitt admin hires some sort of messiah are fooling themselves and have not learned from history. The Likelihood of Pitt putting up huge cash ($4MM Plus) to get a coach who "might" be able to out recruit and out coach Narduzzi are slim and none and Slim left town. Theres perhaps less than a handful of coaches (Meyer, Saban, etc) that could theoretically come in and recruit well enough to win within 2-3 years. Simply shelling out money for a coach is NOT going to solve the problem and the few who theoretically could solve the problem are not realistic options unless you live in some parallel universe.

Secondly, you are assuming the Pitt administration would be able to hire a good coach to replace Duzz. Lets look at the history of Pitt Hires beginning with Stallings, Haymaker, Graham, Hackett, JM2, etc. The odds of hiring someone far worse and driving this program completely into the ground are far greater than even hiring someone at the same level as Duzz.

Finally, its way to early to be looking to talk about firing Narduzzi.

Heres some facts to consider.

1. Hes had more big wins (PSU, Clemson) and fewer humiliating losses (no Youngstown states, no BG, etc) than any coach in a long time.

2. Hes won 8 games the first two years. Yes this year looks like a transition year but there is some good talent on this roster.

3. Anyone who thought this team was going to be better than last years wasnt being realistic. They lost a guy at QB who is an NFL caliber QB. Browne lost out to two guys at USC for a reason. Hes a statue and is not very decisive throwing the ball. DInucci was essentially a walk on. Unless you have a phenom frosh QB standing on the sidelines, the offense was not going to be near as good. THen add in JC, and the two OL not to mention Price, and the other seniors they lost and thats a ton of talent they lost from a team that was decent, not great.

4. They do have talent with a high upside. The problem is most of its young. PItts a program that will not be getting guys who can step right in and dominate. Very few programs can. Much like the hoops program they have to recruit and develop players. There will be years where the talent overall has not been fully developed and the team takes a step back. This appears to be one of those.

Now if two years from now we are having the same conversation then I'd say its time to rinse repeat and try another coach. However, I think Duzz has shown enough potential to achieve what I think are reasonable goals for this program which is average about 8-9 wins, be in contention for the coastal more often than not and compete for a play off spot once every 5 to 10 years. It takes time to build that sort of stable program. Duzz inherited a train wreck on defense. Hes two years in with really only one complete recruiting class of his own. Once his first two full classes are Juniors and Seniors then we'll be able to see if hes the right man for the job.


We will get out of this with stability. This was a game we should have gotten wiped out in and we did. Now the shaky fans and penn state fans are calling for Narduzzi's head to create further instability.

Unless Jesus himself ask for the job, there is no doubt Narduzzi is the man.
 
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I agree with everything Pittbb80 stated about giving Duzz time and I said as much in my post. I just hate the fact that this is were we find ourselves again. Can anyone name me another school that finds itself in this situation as much as Pitt? While other programs say it, no other program says "in 2-3 years when the current players are juniors and seniors" as much as Pitt does, atleast that is how it feels to me. I am not expecting Pitt to compete for the National title here, but was/is it asking too much to win the old BE or the coastal now every 4 years or so? Is it asking too much to finish in the top 25 (not top 5, 10 or 15) more than 5 times in 35 years? For the love of God, the WPIAL and PA football is still one of the better areas/states for football talent. It is not what it use to be when it was 1 or 2 but it is still 6-9 areas in the country. Supplement it with Ohio/NJ/Maryland/VA and Florida and there is no reason to not be top 15 year in year out, yet only 5 top 25 finishes in 35 years.

I hope and want Duzz to succeed, and I am willing to give him time, but I am sick of every year minus a year here and there were I am giving more time.

I get your frustration as I've seen "Pitt Football" stealing defeat from the jaws of victory for 50 years. However its really not fair to take out our frustrations over Pitts history on the current staff. Yes it is frustrating that we keep having to wait for 2-3 years but that is the reality. Unless you hire Saban or Meyer, its a long term proposition. Hell even Dabo wasnt a big success in his first two years and look at the resources he has at Clemson
 
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After a humiliating loss its understandable that a segment of the fan base will be claiming doom and gloom. However those calling for Duzz head and hoping this Pitt admin hires some sort of messiah are fooling themselves and have not learned from history. The Likelihood of Pitt putting up huge cash ($4MM Plus) to get a coach who "might" be able to out recruit and out coach Narduzzi are slim and none and Slim left town. Theres perhaps less than a handful of coaches (Meyer, Saban, etc) that could theoretically come in and recruit well enough to win within 2-3 years. Simply shelling out money for a coach is NOT going to solve the problem and the few who theoretically could solve the problem are not realistic options unless you live in some parallel universe.

Secondly, you are assuming the Pitt administration would be able to hire a good coach to replace Duzz. Lets look at the history of Pitt Hires beginning with Stallings, Haymaker, Graham, Hackett, JM2, etc. The odds of hiring someone far worse and driving this program completely into the ground are far greater than even hiring someone at the same level as Duzz.

Finally, its way to early to be looking to talk about firing Narduzzi.

Heres some facts to consider.

1. Hes had more big wins (PSU, Clemson) and fewer humiliating losses (no Youngstown states, no BG, etc) than any coach in a long time.

2. Hes won 8 games the first two years. Yes this year looks like a transition year but there is some good talent on this roster.

3. Anyone who thought this team was going to be better than last years wasnt being realistic. They lost a guy at QB who is an NFL caliber QB. Browne lost out to two guys at USC for a reason. Hes a statue and is not very decisive throwing the ball. DInucci was essentially a walk on. Unless you have a phenom frosh QB standing on the sidelines, the offense was not going to be near as good. THen add in JC, and the two OL not to mention Price, and the other seniors they lost and thats a ton of talent they lost from a team that was decent, not great.

4. They do have talent with a high upside. The problem is most of its young. PItts a program that will not be getting guys who can step right in and dominate. Very few programs can. Much like the hoops program they have to recruit and develop players. There will be years where the talent overall has not been fully developed and the team takes a step back. This appears to be one of those.

Now if two years from now we are having the same conversation then I'd say its time to rinse repeat and try another coach. However, I think Duzz has shown enough potential to achieve what I think are reasonable goals for this program which is average about 8-9 wins, be in contention for the coastal more often than not and compete for a play off spot once every 5 to 10 years. It takes time to build that sort of stable program. Duzz inherited a train wreck on defense. Hes two years in with really only one complete recruiting class of his own. Once his first two full classes are Juniors and Seniors then we'll be able to see if hes the right man for the job.


GREAT post! Very well thought out. Well done.
 
I agree with everything Pittbb80 stated about giving Duzz time and I said as much in my post. I just hate the fact that this is were we find ourselves again. Can anyone name me another school that finds itself in this situation as much as Pitt? While other programs say it, no other program says "in 2-3 years when the current players are juniors and seniors" as much as Pitt does, atleast that is how it feels to me. I am not expecting Pitt to compete for the National title here, but was/is it asking too much to win the old BE or the coastal now every 4 years or so? Is it asking too much to finish in the top 25 (not top 5, 10 or 15) more than 5 times in 35 years? For the love of God, the WPIAL and PA football is still one of the better areas/states for football talent. It is not what it use to be when it was 1 or 2 but it is still 6-9 areas in the country. Supplement it with Ohio/NJ/Maryland/VA and Florida and there is no reason to not be top 15 year in year out, yet only 5 top 25 finishes in 35 years.

I hope and want Duzz to succeed, and I am willing to give him time, but I am sick of every year minus a year here and there were I am giving more time.
Off the top of my head these schools come to mind. In the worse category: IUD, Purdue, Syracuse, Kansas, California, Rutgers, UVA, WASH ST, to name a few without reference to a list. In the peer category: GTECH, Arkansas, USC COCKS, UCLA,.
In the infamous number of coaches...we have no peer.
In the impotent AD category, we are in a class unto ourselves, though I like Heather.
 
I just love giving this "defensive minded" coach credit for the offense of last season, which most of the credit should go to our prior coach. Without that offense of last season and with the defense of the last 16 games we obviously are having a completely different conversation. In those 2 big wins last season the team gave up 40 and 39 points.

But I will play along, I don't dislike Narduzzi at all as a person. but when we are year 3 and the defense has actually gotten worse than what it was under House alarms should be going off.
 
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agreed, good post. too many youngsters this, year, no LB's

Safety was also a struggle vs that type of passing attack, especially without Whitehead. Garner has shown promise, but OSU is a team that is very tough on DB's; inexperienced ones in particular.

Some of the other Pitt safeties that played pretty well vs the nits were seen to be tackling air and misjudging their angles vs the Cowboys.

Safety is such a very critical position. The 4 WR spread 'em out O's like the OSU "air raid" put a lot of stress on the safeties because they often have to match up against a very good and very fast WR. At the same time they are the last line of defense if a RB breaks through to try to prevent big plays. The deep crossing routes that the OSU WR's were gashing the Pitt safeties. Maybe against the spread passing games Pitt might consider going to more nickel or even dime packages? Try to build more of a picket fence back there to try to prevent the crossing routes at least? The pass rush - even with blitzes - was haveing little (or no) effect anyway. Dare them to run the ball more and hope they get impatient and try to force throws vs a lot of DB's?

Hard to say if that would've worked, but may have been worth at least a try? What Pitt was doing sure wasn't slowing them down. Hill was very good at TB, but maybe he'd have tired some?

Fingers crossed that JW can get back and play with effectiveness and determination. Like a real difference maker should. Would hope he feels he owes it to the team. And to himself. We'll see starting Saturday if there is improvement on D. Of course GT runs an O that is about the polar opposite of OSU in terms of approach.
 
I just love giving this "defensive minded" coach credit for the offense of last season, which most of the credit should go to our prior coach. Without that offense of last season and with the defense of the last 16 games we obviously are having a completely different conversation. In those 2 big wins last season the team gave up 40 and 39 points.

But I will play along, I don't dislike Narduzzi at all as a person. but when we are year 3 and the defense has actually gotten worse than what is was under House alarms should be going off.


Didnt Duzz hire Canada? Didnt he recruit peterman? I doubt that Moose would have had an offense as prolific as PItts last year.
 
Didnt Duzz hire Canada? Didnt he recruit peterman? I doubt that Moose would have had an offense as prolific as PItts last year.

Honestly I think no offense is as overpowering as it was last year if not for a strong offensive line. And credit for that must go to the prior coach.
 
I get your frustration as I've seen "Pitt Football" stealing defeat from the jaws of victory for 50 years. However its really not fair to take out our frustrations over Pitts history on the current staff. Yes it is frustrating that we keep having to wait for 2-3 years but that is the reality. Unless you hire Saban or Meyer, its a long term proposition. Hell even Dabo wasnt a big success in his first two years and look at the resources he has at Clemson
Because we've had 9 Head coaches since(not including Haygood) 1982. Not to mention moving from Independent to Big East, the raid, and ACC. Average tenure. 3 plus years. Lots of instability everywhere. How can anything get done?
 
I agree with everything Pittbb80 stated about giving Duzz time and I said as much in my post. I just hate the fact that this is were we find ourselves again. Can anyone name me another school that finds itself in this situation as much as Pitt? While other programs say it, no other program says "in 2-3 years when the current players are juniors and seniors" as much as Pitt does, atleast that is how it feels to me. I am not expecting Pitt to compete for the National title here, but was/is it asking too much to win the old BE or the coastal now every 4 years or so? Is it asking too much to finish in the top 25 (not top 5, 10 or 15) more than 5 times in 35 years? For the love of God, the WPIAL and PA football is still one of the better areas/states for football talent. It is not what it use to be when it was 1 or 2 but it is still 6-9 areas in the country. Supplement it with Ohio/NJ/Maryland/VA and Florida and there is no reason to not be top 15 year in year out, yet only 5 top 25 finishes in 35 years.

I hope and want Duzz to succeed, and I am willing to give him time, but I am sick of every year minus a year here and there were I am giving more time.
Programs that are doing what you are asking don't have 4 coaches in 6 years and that's not counting interm guys or guys like haywood. EVerytime you change coaches you lose a class. Its basically self sanctioning. I just made a post about the previous classes when I started to look at it I looked at the 2013 class, That would be your 5th year guys, stable programs typically have 5 to 8 of these guys. They aren't typically studs, those guys already went to the nfl. Pitt has 3, but had PC not had to play those guys as FR guys like Soto and Orndorff would be on the team.
 
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Programs that are doing what you are asking don't have 4 coaches in 6 years and that's not counting interm guys or guys like haywood. EVerytime you change coaches you lose a class. Its basically self sanctioning. I just made a post about the previous classes when I started to look at it I looked at the 2013 class, That would be your 5th year guys, stable programs typically have 5 to 8 of these guys. They aren't typically studs, those guys already went to the nfl. Pitt has 3, but had PC not had to play those guys as FR guys like Soto and Orndorff would be on the team.

That is why I blame the administration as much as I do and not the current HC (some staff members need to go). I am only speaking for myself here. As much as I want Pitt to compete for the NC I know I am not a fan of that type of program. What is attainable and should be the goal is to be top 15-25 every year, compete for the coastal every year and win it ever 4 years if not more. Every once in a while win the whole ACC and compete in the playoffs when the stars align. That should not be asking too much, yet here we are going around in circles yet again. Then we have jackasses on here blaming fans. If I am going to support a team simply because the "kids deserve our support" and not care about results, I would make Army, Navy, & Air Force (I do like and cheer for them) my favorite college teams. Then have to hear self righteous talk about how Pitt does it the right way crap with out cheating. I want to see results not constantly wait 2-3 years.
 
Off the top of my head these schools come to mind. In the worse category: IUD, Purdue, Syracuse, Kansas, California, Rutgers, UVA, WASH ST, to name a few without reference to a list. In the peer category: GTECH, Arkansas, USC COCKS, UCLA,.
In the infamous number of coaches...we have no peer.
In the impotent AD category, we are in a class unto ourselves, though I like Heather.
Washington st would beat us by 25 points this year with their passing attack...... just sayin
 
We will see where we are after the 18 season, that's a fair amount of time to judge him good or bad.

If Pitt has still shown no more care about football than they do today, then who really cares if he does good or bad, we would just end up with the DC from Kent or Bowling Green
 
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