Roster overhaul thus 25 Ships for 2016 Class

[tylersmyth]

At the beginning of the year, lots of people thought Duzz & crew would offer between 17-19 scholarships for the 2016 class.

In looking at the roster, you can see how & why they will take 25 scholarships this year because the talent level is not where it needs to be to fit the defense scheme.

Probably will be a good amount of kids that have tough conversations with the coaches if PITT is the right fit for them, so might go the 5th year route and play somewhere else which is great for them & PITT.

Hoping PITT lands:

Hamlin & Hudson really need better athletes & players in secondary besides Whitehead.
Alexander at DE add more depth, position should be great next year & well stocked
Watts & Camps (USC Commit) @ DT-this position is scary especially for next year & misses from last year.
LB-Liking the commits from last year & this year if Pine stays-Pugh could be really good!

Chryst did a good job of stocking the shelves with bodies, at the end of the day the talent is no better than 8 wins a season, especially on defense. Hoping Duzz can balance both Offense & Defense recruiting, especially O-Line where PC did a great job.

We need better talent to win against the better teams, Navy was the better team yesterday & PITT had little margin for mistakes to win that game.

H2P

 

[Swervin27]

the DT from USC is out, sticking with commitment. We have about 25 juniors on scholarship too. Some are obviously not gonna be on next year's roster but still, you are looking at 20+ for next year too and that's without your typical attrition.

In the fall of 2017, we are gonna have about 45+ players with freshmen or sophomore eligibility.. basically 1/2 the roster..

 

[CougarClaws]

Good post. Actually I would not even be surprised if Coach brings in 26 or 27 this year since we have the 3 early enrollers. I think 28 is the max this class could be.

My dream finish in this order: DT Watts, TE Haskins, DE Alexander, JUCO QB Ford, OL Valentin, CB Hamlin, ATH Hudson.

 

[pittdan77]

The next few weeks could be pretty fun for Pitt.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Good post. Actually I would not even be surprised if Coach brings in 26 or 27 this year since we have the 3 early enrollers. I think 28 is the max this class could be.

My dream finish in this order: DT Watts, TE Haskins, DE Alexander, JUCO QB Ford, OL Valentin, CB Hamlin, ATH Hudson.

YEP- they may not stop at 25 ...

 

[Jeffburgh]

At the beginning of the year, lots of people thought Duzz & crew would offer between 17-19 scholarships for the 2016 class.

In looking at the roster, you can see how & why they will take 25 scholarships this year because the talent level is not where it needs to be to fit the defense scheme.

Probably will be a good amount of kids that have tough conversations with the coaches if PITT is the right fit for them, so might go the 5th year route and play somewhere else which is great for them & PITT.

Hoping PITT lands:

Hamlin & Hudson really need better athletes & players in secondary besides Whitehead.
Alexander at DE add more depth, position should be great next year & well stocked
Watts & Camps (USC Commit) @ DT-this position is scary especially for next year & misses from last year.
LB-Liking the commits from last year & this year if Pine stays-Pugh could be really good!

Chryst did a good job of stocking the shelves with bodies, at the end of the day the talent is no better than 8 wins a season, especially on defense. Hoping Duzz can balance both Offense & Defense recruiting, especially O-Line where PC did a great job.

We need better talent to win against the better teams, Navy was the better team yesterday & PITT had little margin for mistakes to win that game.

H2P

Nards isnt playing the take four years to build it up, cycle out the prior players and win with your guys in year five game.

He now has a full season seeing the team in practice every day and games, and on game day had to be pretty frustrated at times when he just didn't have the horses to win like he wants to win ...

As someone else noted, PC did get the roster filled out, but there is too much filler there.

It is what it is ...

 

[sappycrease]

Anyone know the scoop on OL Valentin from PA? His offer sheet is impressive but his recruitment hasn't been all that talked about.

 

[JokePa]

Valentin was hot on Pitt, then cooled for a long time, and now he seems to like us again. I remember a year ago everyone said he was UPS to loose, but they never offered, not sure why. He is anyones guess I think, he has been all over, Oklahoma, ASU, Michigan, Rutgers, Temple and us

 

[CougarClaws]

Nards isnt playing the take four years to build it up, cycle out the prior players and win with your guys in year five game.

He now has a full season seeing the team in practice every day and games, and on game day had to be pretty frustrated at times when he just didn't have the horses to win like he wants to win ...

As someone else noted, PC did get the roster filled out, but there is too much filler there.

It is what it is ...

Have to agree Jeff, Nardog doesn't like what he sees and is in a hurry. I have the impression he was very disappointed at the lack of progress from a bunch of his kids 2nd half of the season.

 

[sappycrease]

Valentin was hot on Pitt, then cooled for a long time, and now he seems to like us again. I remember a year ago everyone said he was UPS to loose, but they never offered, not sure why. He is anyones guess I think, he has been all over, Oklahoma, ASU, Michigan, Rutgers, Temple and us

Thanks for the update. Odd that the Peds never offered, especially with that dumpster fire of an offensive line. Hopefully we land the kid but it looks like we're keeping pretty good company with that list.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Nards isnt playing the take four years to build it up, cycle out the prior players and win with your guys in year five game.

Which, of course, makes him exactly the same as every other coach ever hired in the history of football.

Seriously, do you really think that there has ever been any coach ever hired at any program who has said to himself when he took the job, "well, I really don't have any need to perform or to get the best out of the guys who are here since I didn't recruit any of them, my plan will be to wait until year five to win when I have a team full of my guys"? Do you think if anyone being interviewed for a head coaching position ever said something like that in their interview that they would ever get hired?

 

[Jeffburgh]

Which, of course, makes him exactly the same as every other coach ever hired in the history of football.

Seriously, do you really think that there has ever been any coach ever hired at any program who has said to himself when he took the job, "well, I really don't have any need to perform or to get the best out of the guys who are here since I didn't recruit any of them, my plan will be to wait until year five to win when I have a team full of my guys"? Do you think if anyone being interviewed for a head coaching position ever said something like that in their interview that they would ever get hired?

The guy nards replaced ...

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The guy nards replaced ...

Didn't Chryst start the youngest team in college football?

Maybe because he wanted to upgrade with his guys?

 

[Jeffburgh]

Didn't Chryst start the youngest team in college football?

Maybe because he wanted to upgrade with his guys?

Please - the party line his entire tenure when people were chaffing at his low energy style and .500 seasons was that he was taking four years to develop players and needed time to win with his guys. There are 1,000s of posts lingering in the interwebs, here and TOS, with people saying you had to wait until year five with him ...

 

[Swervin27]

Please - the party line his entire tenure when people were chaffing at his low energy style and .500 seasons was that he was taking four years to develop players and needed time to win with his guys. There are 1,000s of posts lingering in the interwebs, here and TOS, with people saying you had to wait until year five with him ...

Waiting for 4 or 5 years before judging a coach is an outdated and non-existent concept. blame fans like us having no patience or whatever but Eagles are a perfect example. They brought a coach in, completely changed their whole system and still only gave this guy what? 3 years? YOu got to make it happen by year 2 or your seat gets warm. By year 3, it's damn hot. To expect 4 years before getting judged is foolish.

If you look at the window that we gave Wanny, even that was extreme.. His first 3 years were under .500% he is damn lucky he even got that 4th year.. Not many schools would have even had him as coach going into 08

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Please - the party line his entire tenure when people were chaffing at his low energy style and .500 seasons was that he was taking four years to develop players and needed time to win with his guys. There are 1,000s of posts lingering in the interwebs, here and TOS, with people saying you had to wait until year five with him ...

What people say, and what Chryst did are clearly different.

In other words your attempt at contradiction to Joe's point seems out of Line with what happened.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Which, of course, makes him exactly the same as every other coach ever hired in the history of football.

Seriously, do you really think that there has ever been any coach ever hired at any program who has said to himself when he took the job, "well, I really don't have any need to perform or to get the best out of the guys who are here since I didn't recruit any of them, my plan will be to wait until year five to win when I have a team full of my guys"? Do you think if anyone being interviewed for a head coaching position ever said something like that in their interview that they would ever get hired?

You're right. That is the narrative of message board fan apologists, but it is not reality. But there is obviously a lot of truth in that statement, but it is something that coaches, AD, etc...would never say, but it is an underlying thought depending on the state of the program the new coach has taken over.

I mean, obviously if you take over Alabama, there is no waiting at all. If you take over Pitt, well there is a lot of truth to cycling your own talent in, provided that talent is truly an upgrade and not more of the same. But no coach is going to broadcast "hey wait 4 years" until you judge me.

 

[Jeffburgh]

What people say, and what Chryst did are clearly different.

In other words your attempt at contradiction to Joe's point seems out of Line with what happened.

Except what I posted is exactly what happened.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Waiting for 4 or 5 years before judging a coach is an outdated and non-existent concept. blame fans like us having no patience or whatever but Eagles are a perfect example. They brought a coach in, completely changed their whole system and still only gave this guy what? 3 years? YOu got to make it happen by year 2 or your seat gets warm. By year 3, it's damn hot. To expect 4 years before getting judged is foolish.

If you look at the window that we gave Wanny, even that was extreme.. His first 3 years were under .500% he is damn lucky he even got that 4th year.. Not many schools would have even had him as coach going into 08

Fans are fans, but really have little to do with it.

It's is a cut throat business, and the college coaches who win and make money today aren't sitting around like Paul Chryst did at Pitt punching a clock in an atmosphere of "it'll come."

Kelly isn't a good example. His mindset is fine for college football, but both his scheme and his mindset are not right for the NFL.

 

[PHATWOOD]

When you guys are done having your usual pissing match over semantics, can we focus on what's absolutely true?

This team is too slow, in some cases too small, in most cases not talented enough to win at a high level in a "power" conference.

The film has shown that repeatedly at the end of this season. The coaching staff is going to have to upgrade the level of athlete they have on the field in terms of size, speed, and football IQ.

I have no idea how long that's going to take, but what was on the field two days ago was a mish-mash of players recruited by three different head coaches who won a combined what, 28 games in five years?

 

[Swervin27]

You're right. That is the narrative of message board fan apologists, but it is not reality. But there is obviously a lot of truth in that statement, but it is something that coaches, AD, etc...would never say, but it is an underlying thought depending on the state of the program the new coach has taken over.

I mean, obviously if you take over Alabama, there is no waiting at all. If you take over Pitt, well there is a lot of truth to cycling your own talent in, provided that talent is truly an upgrade and not more of the same. But no coach is going to broadcast "hey wait 4 years" until you judge me.

good post recruits... I was gonna say the same, anyone saying "don't judge our coach or program until year 5" is an apologist, plain and simple. A rational thought in 1985 but in today's world, just not feasible.

 

[doubleAA's]

souf, are you trying to stick up for Chryst? I mean, he went 19-19 in 3 seasons, so if you are, it is pretty hypocritical

 

[doubleAA's]

Nick Saban went 7-6 his first year at Alabama

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Except what I posted is exactly what happened.

Except it's not.
As noted we played as the youngest team in the country

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Please - the party line his entire tenure when people were chaffing at his low energy style and .500 seasons was that he was taking four years to develop players and needed time to win with his guys. There are 1,000s of posts lingering in the interwebs, here and TOS, with people saying you had to wait until year five with him ...

If you don't understand the difference between what fans are saying and what coaches are actually trying to do then there really is no point in having this conversation. Show me one quote, just one, from Paul Chryst where he said that there was no need for him to perform in his first four years on the job, that nothing he did in his first four years mattered because he couldn't really be judged until his fifth year when he had all his guys.

Don't waste too much time on your search, because I guarantee you that no such quote exists. And I will guarantee you that you will find no such quote from his boss saying anything of the sort either. The fact that someone posting on a message board on the internet said such a thing doesn't make it true, it's just one more data point in the mountains of evidence that lots of really dumb things get posted on the web.

Now perhaps what you don't understand is that that doesn't mean that you could realistically expect Chryst (or Narduzzi for that matter) to come in and win 10 or more games their first year. When you start judging guys coaching abilities you absolutely have to take the situation when they arrived into account. When Pitt went 6-6 in Paul Chryst's first year, with everything that had gone on with the program and the talent he had on hand, that was a minor miracle. When he went 6-6 in his third year that was a team that underachieved. If you don't understand how circumstances dictate that the same results in different years aren't the same then you are clueless. And if you don't understand that you can't make definitive statements about a coaches abilities after his first year as a head coach then you are ignorant of history.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You're right. That is the narrative of message board fan apologists, but it is not reality. But there is obviously a lot of truth in that statement, but it is something that coaches, AD, etc...would never say, but it is an underlying thought depending on the state of the program the new coach has taken over.

I mean, obviously if you take over Alabama, there is no waiting at all. If you take over Pitt, well there is a lot of truth to cycling your own talent in, provided that talent is truly an upgrade and not more of the same. But no coach is going to broadcast "hey wait 4 years" until you judge me.

Exactly. You don't expect a guy taking over at Alabama to go 3-9. You don't expect a guy taking over at Boston College to go 11-1. You have to take into account the circumstances that the coach is walking into. For a new coach, all 3-9 or 6-6 or 10-2 records aren't the same. If you are expecting the guy taking over at Boston College to win the ACC in his first year then when he doesn't that doesn't make him a failure, that just shows that your expectations were idiotic. On the other hand, you don't expect the guy taking over at Alabama to finish in 4th in his division in his first season either. Where the program is when the coach takes over matters. Then you judge him based on that starting point. You wouldn't think that's a hard concept to understand.

 

[UPitt '89]

Exactly. You don't expect a guy taking over at Alabama to go 3-9. You don't expect a guy taking over at Boston College to go 11-1. You have to take into account the circumstances that the coach is walking into. For a new coach, all 3-9 or 6-6 or 10-2 records aren't the same. If you are expecting the guy taking over at Boston College to win the ACC in his first year then when he doesn't that doesn't make him a failure, that just shows that your expectations were idiotic. On the other hand, you don't expect the guy taking over at Alabama to finish in 4th in his division in his first season either. Where the program is when the coach takes over matters. Then you judge him based on that starting point. You wouldn't think that's a hard concept to understand.

Agreed. Let's look at our own recent history...

- Walt Harris took over a dumpster fire devoid of talent left behind by JM II. He went 6-5 and to a bowl in his first season. That's a success.

- Dave Wannstedt took over the Big East co-Champs that had 18 returning starters, including the QB, in a weak league. He went 5-6. That's a failure.

- Todd Graham took over a program that had faltered badly the previous year and lost the best parts of its recruiting class. He went 6-6. Meh.

- Paul Chryst took over a program in disarray from two coaching moves in two years. He went 6-6. Meh.

- Pat Narduzzi took over a program that had four straight 6-6 seasons. He went 8-4. That's a success.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Paul Chryst took over a program in disarray from two coaching moves in two years. He went 6-6. Meh.

I agree with all of them except this one. Chryst took over a team that went 6-6 (6-7 of you count the bowl) that was in complete disarray because of the coaching situation and that lost whatever chance there was for a decent recruiting class (again) to try to find some help. That 6-6 was a success. It wasn't great, but it was a success.

 

[Jeffburgh]

If you don't understand the difference between what fans are saying and what coaches are actually trying to do then there really is no point in having this conversation. Show me one quote, just one, from Paul Chryst where he said that there was no need for him to perform in his first four years on the job, that nothing he did in his first four years mattered because he couldn't really be judged until his fifth year when he had all his guys.

Don't waste too much time on your search, because I guarantee you that no such quote exists. And I will guarantee you that you will find no such quote from his boss saying anything of the sort either. The fact that someone posting on a message board on the internet said such a thing doesn't make it true, it's just one more data point in the mountains of evidence that lots of really dumb things get posted on the web.

Now perhaps what you don't understand is that that doesn't mean that you could realistically expect Chryst (or Narduzzi for that matter) to come in and win 10 or more games their first year. When you start judging guys coaching abilities you absolutely have to take the situation when they arrived into account. When Pitt went 6-6 in Paul Chryst's first year, with everything that had gone on with the program and the talent he had on hand, that was a minor miracle. When he went 6-6 in his third year that was a team that underachieved. If you don't understand how circumstances dictate that the same results in different years aren't the same then you are clueless. And if you don't understand that you can't make definitive statements about a coaches abilities after his first year as a head coach then you are ignorant of history.

I bow at your all knowing knees, freely admit that I am clueless POS who does not understand a lot of things and ask your all knowing and sainted self for forgiveness.






.
..

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I bow at your all knowing knees, freely admit that I am clueless POS who does not understand a lot of things and ask your all knowing and sainted self for forgiveness.

Couldn't find any quote saying anything of the sort, could you?

 

[Jeffburgh]

Couldn't find any quote saying anything of the sort, could you?

You first, ace.

Get me the quote from Chryst about winning big immediately.

 

[quip]

When you guys are done having your usual pissing match over semantics, can we focus on what's absolutely true?

This team is too slow, in some cases too small, in most cases not talented enough to win at a high level in a "power" conference.

The film has shown that repeatedly at the end of this season. The coaching staff is going to have to upgrade the level of athlete they have on the field in terms of size, speed, and football IQ.

I have no idea how long that's going to take, but what was on the field two days ago was a mish-mash of players recruited by three different head coaches who won a combined what, 28 games in five years?

Exactly on Point!!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Get me the quote from Chryst about winning big immediately.

I never said that Chryst said that he would win big immediately, so there's no need for me to find any such quote to be right. On the other hand you did make the argument that people said that it would take five years before Chryst should be judged, and I pointed out that he never said any such thing and neither did his boss. If you think he did then show otherwise. Asking me to show that someone didn't say something that they didn't say isn't really how it works.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between what people are posting on the internet and what the coach actually thinks and what his boss' actual expectations for the coach are?

 

[H2Pittisit]

When you guys are done having your usual pissing match over semantics, can we focus on what's absolutely true?

This team is too slow, in some cases too small, in most cases not talented enough to win at a high level in a "power" conference.

The film has shown that repeatedly at the end of this season. The coaching staff is going to have to upgrade the level of athlete they have on the field in terms of size, speed, and football IQ.

I have no idea how long that's going to take, but what was on the field two days ago was a mish-mash of players recruited by three different head coaches who won a combined what, 28 games in five years?

This is exactly right and it will get worse before it gets better. 1 offseason is not going to make up the ground. We possibly lose the one player teams had to gameplan against on offense. If we match this years record, Narduzzi will deserve a huge raise.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I have no idea how long that's going to take, but what was on the field two days ago was a mish-mash of players recruited by three different head coaches who won a combined what, 28 games in five years?

33, but who's counting?

 

[Jeffburgh]

I never said that Chryst said that he would win big immediately, so there's no need for me to find any such quote to be right. On the other hand you did make the argument that people said that it would take five years before Chryst should be judged, and I pointed out that he never said any such thing and neither did his boss. If you think he did then show otherwise. Asking me to show that someone didn't say something that they didn't say isn't really how it works.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between what people are posting on the internet and what the coach actually thinks and what his boss' actual expectations for the coach are?

What I don't UNDERSTAND is why you never said that Moose said he would win immediately, so I don't UNDERSTAND you don't need to find any quotes while I don't UNDERSTAND why I never said that Moose said whatever deranged thing you are saying I have to say he said and I don't UNDERSTAND why I have to have to find that quote?

 

[OriginalEther]

I agree with all of them except this one. Chryst took over a team that went 6-6 (6-7 of you count the bowl) that was in complete disarray because of the coaching situation and that lost whatever chance there was for a decent recruiting class (again) to try to find some help. That 6-6 was a success. It wasn't great, but it was a success.

I don't want this thread to get turned into a Paul Chryst year 1 evaluation, but I would be a lot more inclined to agree with you if one of those losses wasn't a two touchdown (or so) loss to Youngstown State.

 

[UPitt '89]

This is exactly right and it will get worse before it gets better. 1 offseason is not going to make up the ground. We possibly lose the one player teams had to gameplan against on offense. If we match this years record, Narduzzi will deserve a huge raise.

I think it's cute how you keep saying "we".

 

[paulbl99]

When you guys are done having your usual pissing match over semantics, can we focus on what's absolutely true?

This team is too slow, in some cases too small, in most cases not talented enough to win at a high level in a "power" conference.

The film has shown that repeatedly at the end of this season. The coaching staff is going to have to upgrade the level of athlete they have on the field in terms of size, speed, and football IQ.

I have no idea how long that's going to take, but what was on the field two days ago was a mish-mash of players recruited by three different head coaches who won a combined what, 28 games in five years?

^^^ this^^^



Pitt is in year 33 of a 3 year plan

 

[BuffetParrothead]

This is exactly right and it will get worse before it gets better. 1 offseason is not going to make up the ground. We possibly lose the one player teams had to gameplan against on offense. If we match this years record, Narduzzi will deserve a huge raise.

You're like an uninvited annoying neighbor!