Seeming to be less almost universally accepted every day

[gary2]

Vukovcan: Pitt Needs to Give Jeff Capel More Time

Fans want to watch a winner and hate losing. There’s nothing wrong with that, because if a team doesn’t have any expectations and doesn’t have fans that are sick of losing, then they really have deeper issues and aren’t much of a team or program. Fortunately for Pitt, they don’t fall into that...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

 

[Wanstash21]

Capel does need more time. He deserves more time. It would be dumb not to give him more time.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Capel does need more time. He deserves more time. It would be dumb not to give him more time.

This is Year 4. We have ZERO recruits for next year. We are going to have another losing season this year. That makes 6 straight losing seasons for Capel going back to Oklahoma.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I'll bet you a million dollars he doesn't have zero recruits for 2022 by next fall.

Lol

 

[Wanstash21]

This is Year 4. We have ZERO recruits for next year. We are going to have another losing season this year. That makes 6 straight losing seasons for Capel going back to Oklahoma.

I'll bet you a million dollars he doesn't have zero recruits for 2022 by next fall.

 

[gary2]

Capel does need more time. He deserves more time. It would be dumb not to give him more time.

He deserves more time?

He had the makings of a team. He either could not control and mold it OR he made a conscious decision to dismantle it because he thought it flawed.

How in hell do those actions deserve anything?

Why does this guy with a history of these kind of results,”deserve” another bite at the apple?

I would not give him one.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I'll bet you a million dollars he doesn't have zero recruits for 2022 by next fall.

 

[pittjas]

I'll bet you a million dollars he doesn't have zero recruits for 2022 by next fall.

We will have recruits. Will they be good? Or just more 0.0 WAR players

 

[gary2]

I'll bet you a million dollars he doesn't have zero recruits for 2022 by next fall.

Will Pitt’s ACC record this season have an effect on Pitt’s recruiting?

How many wins do you expect Pitt to register? That number will be enough to secure a “decent” recruiting class?

 

[DT_PITT]

Capel does need more time. He deserves more time. It would be dumb not to give him more time.

I just wanted to give you a shout out for sticking to your guns for your take on Capel. I can't say I agree with you per se, but I know what's it like to stand seemingly on your own. After the 2016 tourney game with Wisconsin, 90% of the board wanted Dixon gone that day and I had to stand on my own also maintaining that I didn't think he should be fired (even while I too was very displeased with some of coaching decisions that night.)

The problem for you is that it's much harder to stand tall for Capel right now. I had it easier. I didn't think a coach who made the NCAA's 11 our of 13 years should be fired. But there's little evidence at this moment to believe Capel will pick things up in year five or beyond.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

We will have recruits. Will they be good? Or just more 0.0 WAR players

I believe we have a few negative WAR as well. I played a game with a buddy of mine this morning. Take every Pitt player (individually) and tell me how they’d be in the horizon league for Robert Morris. Here’s what we came up with:
1) Hugley - RMU’s best player, 1st team all league possible player of the year
2) Femi - RMU’s best player, possible 1st team all league probable 2nd team
3) Burton - RMU’s second best player averaging around 10-12
4) Horton - RMU starter
5) Jeffress - bench player
6) Collier - Bench player
7) Mo Gueye - RMU top 3 player/starter

the fact we could only come up with a consensus of 5 dudes who would start at RMU and 2 that would be their best player is a problem.

 

[Wanstash21]

Will Pitt’s ACC record this season have an effect on Pitt’s recruiting?

How many wins do you expect Pitt to register? That number will be enough to secure a “decent” recruiting class?

I think Capel can recruit perfectly fine with the current results. He can point to how hard his team plays and they just need a little extra juice to get over that hump. I think he has plenty of selling points as long as this team plays hard and competes. Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't expect that to change. There aren't any ego's on this team (maybe John - but you can already see how his mannerisms have changed) to dirty the culture.

 

[pittjas]

I believe we have a few negative WAR as well. I played a game with a buddy of mine this morning. Take every Pitt player (individually) and tell me how they’d be in the horizon league for Robert Morris. Here’s what we came up with:
1) Hugley - RMU’s best player, 1st team all league possible player of the year
2) Femi - RMU’s best player, possible 1st team all league probable 2nd team
3) Burton - RMU’s second best player averaging around 10-12
4) Horton - RMU starter
5) Jeffress - bench player
6) Collier - Bench player
7) Mo Gueye - RMU top 3 player/starter

the fact we could only come up with a consensus of 5 dudes who would start at RMU and 2 that would be their best player is a problem.

Haha yeah we obviously have our fair share of those too.

But the issue, which you’ve touched on plenty, is that somebody has to look good on bad teams. It’s given some posters on here some false hope I think.

Like Gueye and Burton are solid additions from the portal… to be your 7th-8th options. Horton is a solid 6th man when he’s on. Sibande is a decent reserve

Femi has some potential. Hugley is probably above average ACC as an upperclassmen.

We have a team full of solid ACC reserves. But they aren’t all suddenly going to morph into All-ACC players just because Brandin Knight or Lamar Patterson saw an increase in their stats 10-20 years ago when their minutes doubled.

 

[gary2]

I think Capel can recruit perfectly fine with the current results. He can point to how hard his team plays and they just need a little extra juice to get over that hump. I think he has plenty of selling points as long as this team plays hard and competes. Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't expect that to change. There aren't any ego's on this team (maybe John - but you can already see how his mannerisms have changed) to dirty the culture.

We are going to get recruits because we play hard? Please. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Wanstash21]

We are going to get recruits because we play hard? Please.

if that's what you took from my comment, I'm done entertaining your questions.

 

[gary2]

if that's what you took from my comment, I'm done entertaining your questions.

Fine with me.

 

[Wanstash21]

Fine with me.

btw there's nothing wrong with formulating your own opinion. you don't need to listen to certain posters on here and then just blindly agree with their stance.

 

[gary2]

btw there's nothing wrong with formulating your own opinion. you don't need to listen to certain posters on here and then just blindly agree with their stance.

What posters are you referencing?

 

[TD_6082]

I think Capel can recruit perfectly fine with the current results. He can point to how hard his team plays and they just need a little extra juice to get over that hump. I think he has plenty of selling points as long as this team plays hard and competes. Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't expect that to change. There aren't any ego's on this team (maybe John - but you can already see how his mannerisms have changed) to dirty the culture.

Over the hump can mean a lot of different things. ...Over the hump to finish .500, Over the hump to making the tourney, Over the hump to a deep tourney run...

I think the little exta juice push is a very hard sell for a guy going into a 5th year. He’s going to be hard pressed to convince anyone his job status is secure, imo. And I’m sure the off court stuff will be used as negative recruiting for others.

Also, If he gets a 5th year, what are the expectations? Incremental progress won't cut it in year 5. At some point, you have to sell more than hope. He has to put fans in the seats too.

 

[gary2]

Vukovcan: Pitt Needs to Give Jeff Capel More Time

Fans want to watch a winner and hate losing. There’s nothing wrong with that, because if a team doesn’t have any expectations and doesn’t have fans that are sick of losing, then they really have deeper issues and aren’t much of a team or program. Fortunately for Pitt, they don’t fall into that...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

Ralph Willard was a better coach and recruiter than Jeff Capel. It was entirely reasonable to believe Willard would have been successful at Pitt. He wasn’t. Maybe a perfect storm or combination of circumstances prevented it.

For whatever reasons, it became clear it was never going to happen for Willard at Pitt.

That is where we are with Jeff Capel. He has reasons (excuses) for why he has not succeeded: players and their girlfriends, players and their families, selfish players, players getting arrested, players turning Pro, a school buying his committed superstar, players transferring, players getting hurt and don’t ever forget Covid, Covid, Covid.

Coaches are hired to produce, not produce excuses.

I think a continuation of the Capel regime can reasonably be expected to produce more of what he has already produced: excuses.

It is not enough to play hard and compete and lose. You are still a loser. We need to pursue better.

 

[Ski11585]

Vuk sucks. His opinion is worth no more than any poster on the boards.

 

[Vader_Storm]

I think Capel can recruit perfectly fine with the current results. He can point to how hard his team plays and they just need a little extra juice to get over that hump. I think he has plenty of selling points as long as this team plays hard and competes. Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't expect that to change. There aren't any ego's on this team (maybe John - but you can already see how his mannerisms have changed) to dirty the culture.

I think this team will be significantly improved with Horton. Just the fact that Big John is getting double and triple team down low and we will have far more spacing with Horton on the floor on the outside, especially for Femi driving, is going to make a big difference in the overall offense. Jeffress is really hurting the offense when he cant make wide open shots with no one close to him. Its also really hurting the assist production from players like Femi.

Femi has played well the last 2 games. His turnover percentage has fallen rapidly since the start of the season with him getting comfortable with Burton. I think we have 2 really good building blocks with him and Hugley, and Horton makes 3 quality blocks that are underclassmen and young.

I want to see what happens with Santos the rest of the season. Maybe he doesn't play much with Horton back, but with Jeffress struggling on offense so much he has to be given a chance. Jeffress is young I agree, but he has to start hitting wide open shots. He just isn't there on offense.

Im not sure on recruiting. I still think it can be salvaged with wins and finishing the season on a good note. There are a lot of winnable games still on the schedule. 1 point losses don't count, we have to win some games. For Capel's sake, for our teams sake, for the fans sake, and especially for recruiting's sake, we need some wins.

And yes, I think we are more than capable of going on the road to potentially get some. Im also not sure how many more 1 point losses this young team can take mentally. I think the next 3 games with how "tough" we come out and play is going to tell us what we need to know.

 

[pittjas]

Vuk sucks. His opinion is worth no more than any poster on the boards.

Haha reminds me of “Paul Zeise said…”

 

[Drew1208]

Deserves.....
He doesn't deserve or hasnt deserved anything
Gets another shot. That's another question and one that i think I'm leaning he gets whether i agree or not.
I think its just what HL will do.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Vukovcan: Pitt Needs to Give Jeff Capel More Time

Fans want to watch a winner and hate losing. There’s nothing wrong with that, because if a team doesn’t have any expectations and doesn’t have fans that are sick of losing, then they really have deeper issues and aren’t much of a team or program. Fortunately for Pitt, they don’t fall into that...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

Maybe you should continue to defend stallings?

 

[Pittisit4me]

I think this team will be significantly improved with Horton. Just the fact that Big John is getting double and triple team down low and we will have far more spacing with Horton on the floor on the outside, especially for Femi driving, is going to make a big difference in the overall offense. Jeffress is really hurting the offense when he cant make wide open shots with no one close to him. Its also really hurting the assist production from players like Femi.

Femi has played well the last 2 games. His turnover percentage has fallen rapidly since the start of the season with him getting comfortable with Burton. I think we have 2 really good building blocks with him and Hugley, and Horton makes 3 quality blocks that are underclassmen and young.

I want to see what happens with Santos the rest of the season. Maybe he doesn't play much with Horton back, but with Jeffress struggling on offense so much he has to be given a chance. Jeffress is young I agree, but he has to start hitting wide open shots. He just isn't there on offense.

Im not sure on recruiting. I still think it can be salvaged with wins and finishing the season on a good note. There are a lot of winnable games still on the schedule. 1 point losses don't count, we have to win some games. For Capel's sake, for our teams sake, for the fans sake, and especially for recruiting's sake, we need some wins.

And yes, I think we are more than capable of going on the road to potentially get some. Im also not sure how many more 1 point losses this young team can take mentally. I think the next 3 games with how "tough" we come out and play is going to tell us what we need to know.

Clearly the stars have not aligned for Capel and some of it is his own doing. Having said that, I would have liked to see what last year's team would have looked like with Big Jon playing the entire year. Perhaps they come together and finish strong. Similarly, and hopefully, we get to see what the rest of this season looks like with Horton back.

I like the way the team is playing and I think Capel is showing some ability to teach this year. I would base my decision on giving him another year solely on how this team stays together and finishes up. I really think they can win quite a few ACC games with Horton back.

If we finish still playing well, he should be able to land some capable kids from the portal. Of course, he has to show the ability to land some high school recruits as well, which could be troublesome now. I have a bit of a different vibe this year on Capel. It just seems like he is giving his all and the kids are responding. I just want to know if he is capable of finishing a season strong instead of with a whimper.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I just wanted to give you a shout out for sticking to your guns for your take on Capel. I can't say I agree with you per se, but I know what's it like to stand seemingly on your own. After the 2016 tourney game with Wisconsin, 90% of the board wanted Dixon gone that day and I had to stand on my own also maintaining that I didn't think he should be fired (even while I too was very displeased with some of coaching decisions that night.)

The problem for you is that it's much harder to stand tall for Capel right now. I had it easier. I didn't think a coach who made the NCAA's 11 our of 13 years should be fired. But there's little evidence at this moment to believe Capel will pick things up in year five or beyond.

Without a doubt that was JDs worst coached game of his Pitt career . Not playing Luther who was really coming on was just unexplainable. That game set college bb back it was so horrible, neither team deserved to win . Saying that they never should have gave up on a man who brought us so many yrs of great bb . Hope all those influential boosters are proud of themselves.

One big difference is that Pitt got out from JD’s contract for the massive amount of zero dollars while it’s going to cost a boatload to remove JC . Those thinking money doesn’t matter are fooling themselves .

 

[gary2]

Clearly the stars have not aligned for Capel and some of it is his own doing. Having said that, I would have liked to see what last year's team would have looked like with Big Jon playing the entire year. Perhaps they come together and finish strong. Similarly, and hopefully, we get to see what the rest of this season looks like with Horton back.

I like the way the team is playing and I think Capel is showing some ability to teach this year. I would base my decision on giving him another year solely on how this team stays together and finishes up. I really think they can win quite a few ACC games with Horton back.

If we finish still playing well, he should be able to land some capable kids from the portal. Of course, he has to show the ability to land some high school recruits as well, which could be troublesome now. I have a bit of a different vibe this year on Capel. It just seems like he is giving his all and the kids are responding. I just want to know if he is capable of finishing a season strong instead of with a wimper.

Capel is showing some ability. To teach “this year”.

A bit of a different vibe “this year” on Capel.

“this year” is different?

Would ”this years” difference have made a “difference“ in years 1-2-3?

 

[Pittisit4me]

Capel is showing some ability. To teach “this year”.

A bit of a different vibe “this year” on Capel.

“this year” is different?

Would ”this years” difference have made a “difference“ in years 1-2-3?

I don't know Gary. What I do know is having a low post player to run your offense through makes a huge difference. These kids know what to do now. The defensive side of the ball has also been much better. They play together and play hard. That of course guarantees nothing. I just want to see how it all plays out before he is shown the door. If they come apart down the stretch the decision is easy. If not, you have to think twice about starting over.

 

[gary2]

I don't know Gary. What I do know is having a low post player to run your offense through makes a huge difference. These kids know what to do now. The defensive side of the ball has also been much better. They play together and play hard. That of course guarantees nothing. I just want to see how it all plays out before he is shown the door. If they come apart down the stretch the decision is easy. If not, you have to think twice about starting over.

OK - Thanks. Understand your position.

 

[TD_6082]

I don't know Gary. What I do know is having a low post player to run your offense through makes a huge difference. These kids know what to do now. The defensive side of the ball has also been much better. They play together and play hard. That of course guarantees nothing. I just want to see how it all plays out before he is shown the door. If they come apart down the stretch the decision is easy. If not, you have to think twice about starting over.

Definitely let it play out. It would be absurd to cut him loose during the season.

I don't think "playing hard and playing together" were the goals for the program 4 years out from the time Capel was hired. I believe the powers that be probably expect a lot more.

I think he's going to have to start getting some wins to get a 5th year. That shouldn't be asking too much.

I'm a big believer in track records & resumes. This is Capel's 9th season coaching at a P6 school, and to date, he only has 2 seasons where his team finished with a conference record above .500 - the 2 years at OU with Blake Griffin. That's not the type of coach you just give a "perfect storm" benefit of doubt in year four. I think he should be expected to deliver some tangible evidence of progress going forward.

With the transfer portal being what it is, I don't think starting over is much of a concern. No matter who the coach is, or how long he has been on the job, there is the risk of basically starting over every year in today‘s game.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

We will have recruits. Will they be good? Or just more 0.0 WAR players

He won't sign any Top 250 HS players but as I said in my new post, I do think he has assembled enough of a core to get 1 more year

 

[pittjas]

He won't sign any Top 250 HS players but as I said in my new post, I do think he has assembled enough of a core to get 1 more year

What is the point of that? What does a 7-13 ACC season do for us next year? Just loses more of the fan base.

The only way that should happen is if he makes big staff changes.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What is the point of that? What does a 7-13 ACC season do for us next year? Just loses more of the fan base.

The only way that should happen is if he makes big staff changes.

Hugley + 4 ACC guards give us a better chance to do something next year over a mid-major coach and 12 transfers. Go the ultra cheap mid-major route in March 2023 and save the $3 million. No one's coming to watch the coach of Northeastern go 2-18 with his team of 12 transfers.

 

[gary2]

What is the point of that? What does a 7-13 ACC season do for us next year? Just loses more of the fan base.

The only way that should happen is if he makes big staff changes.

Staff changes in most places are just an indication the inevitable is one year away. They seldom have an impact.

Who signs on anyway for a one year stint?

 

[Protes]

If one were to defend Capel for this year's results, you'd have to point to Sibande and Horton and say it's not his fault for losing those 2 players -- which it isn't. Also, you can't blame him for Justin jumping ship for the NBA. In fact, he deserves credit for bringing in a kid who was better than anyone expected and seeing him go pro after 2 years. This team would be a heckuva lot better with Justin in the starting 5 and Jeffress out. He also deserves credit for bringing in Burton and Gueye via the portal. Both are making solid contributions to the team.

 

[gary2]

If one were to defend Capel for this year's results, you'd have to point to Sibande and Horton and say it's not his fault for losing those 2 players -- which it isn't. Also, you can't blame him for Justin jumping ship for the NBA. In fact, he deserves credit for bringing in a kid who was better than anyone expected and seeing him go pro after 2 years. This team would be a heckuva lot better with Justin in the starting 5 and Jeffress out. He also deserves credit for bringing in Burton and Gueye via the portal. Both are making solid contributions to the team.

Capel apparently got more than he expected with Gueye

Gueye shines as men’s basketball routs Gannon in exhibition, 89-64 - The Pitt News

Mouhamadou Gueye’s double-double, steady play from two lead guards and a second-half spark from William Jeffress propelled Pitt men’s basketball to an 89-64 win over Gannon in a Monday night exhibition game at the Pete.

pittnews.com

 

[TD_6082]

If one were to defend Capel for this year's results, you'd have to point to Sibande and Horton and say it's not his fault for losing those 2 players -- which it isn't. Also, you can't blame him for Justin jumping ship for the NBA. In fact, he deserves credit for bringing in a kid who was better than anyone expected and seeing him go pro after 2 years. This team would be a heckuva lot better with Justin in the starting 5 and Jeffress out. He also deserves credit for bringing in Burton and Gueye via the portal. Both are making solid contributions to the team.

Agree and disagree. It isn't his fault for losing Nike and Horton. But he's had 3 years to build the program to a point to where a couple of injuries (or suspension) doesn't derail the entire season.

As for Justin Champagnie, Capel absolutely deserves credit for bringing in a kid that exceeded expectations & played his way into a position to turn pro after 2 years. However, the fact that Pitt went 4-10 down the stretch after Champagnie came back from his injury and started to really hit his stride last year on a team mixed with several vets isn't exactly something that can be spun into a positive either.

 

[NCanton Panther]

If one were to defend Capel for this year's results, you'd have to point to Sibande and Horton and say it's not his fault for losing those 2 players -- which it isn't. Also, you can't blame him for Justin jumping ship for the NBA. In fact, he deserves credit for bringing in a kid who was better than anyone expected and seeing him go pro after 2 years. This team would be a heckuva lot better with Justin in the starting 5 and Jeffress out. He also deserves credit for bringing in Burton and Gueye via the portal. Both are making solid contributions to the team.

I agree with everything you say here.

But any decision or course of action on Capel’s future is simply that, about the ‘future’.

I’m still having a hard time seeing potential for the future without something positive in recruiting.

 

[TWPitt]

Capel is showing some ability. To teach “this year”.

A bit of a different vibe “this year” on Capel.

“this year” is different?

Would ”this years” difference have made a “difference“ in years 1-2-3?

Here’s the real question — has the coach changed or is it just the players are listening now ?

We know they weren’t in the past.