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Semi-OT: Seton La Salle Recruiting

Sure it does....but shifting 10% of the kids doesn't work. Bussing made it WORSE, and everyone hated it. It's not smart to have kids from poor towns try to compete with wealthy burbs. Better to provide solid schools in the small towns, break up the failed monopoly schools with the shift of tax money to private schools.
You moved to a fancy district, right. Why not a poorer place?
I'll answer your question and then you can answer mine if you are brave enough.

I moved to a fancy district because I want to take advantage of the current school district setup even though I dont agree with it. Everyone is rich, white, and the schools have ample resources. Its not fair. I know this.

Now why is USC excelling but Clairton is failing?
 
I'll answer your question and then you can answer mine if you are brave enough.

I moved to a fancy district because I want to take advantage of the current school district setup even though I dont agree with it. Everyone is rich, white, and the schools have ample resources. Its not fair. I know this.

Now why is USC excelling but Clairton is failing?
Because it's a poor town following the mill shutdowns. The culture there is different than USC, no doubt, and the finances are crippled. Let's give kids there a chance to get better schools. And it's not just black families hamstrung, lots of poor white families in the same fix. The War on Poverty is a failure because it de-emphasized personal/family responsibility and replaced it with gov't bribes. Let's try something different.
 
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Because it's a poor town following the mill shutdowns. The culture there is different than USC, no doubt, and the finances are crippled. Let's give kids there a chance to get better schools. And it's not just black families hamstrung, lots of poor white families in the same fix. The War on Poverty is a failure because it de-emphasized personal/family responsibility and replaced it with gov't bribes. Let's try something different.
So how are you fixing rural schools like northern potter for instance ?
Why hasn’t the market adjusted to fill a void ?

there is no public school monopoly
Pubic school is a service provides for betterment of society

if localities desire smaller schools they can build more
It’s up to the voters in those areas

private schools are private for a reason - because they don’t want government oversight
If you want the tax dollars going into those schools they have to likewise meet the government oversight and standards

It’s a non-starter
 
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Because it's a poor town following the mill shutdowns. The culture there is different than USC, no doubt, and the finances are crippled. Let's give kids there a chance to get better schools. And it's not just black families hamstrung, lots of poor white families in the same fix. The War on Poverty is a failure because it de-emphasized personal/family responsibility and replaced it with gov't bribes. Let's try something different.

Ok, we agree its a poor town. But a poor town in and of itself does not cause a school to fail. So let me ask more directly:

Does the income and education levels of USC parents compared to Clairton parents play a large role in determining the excellence or failure of said schools?
 
Ok, we agree its a poor town. But a poor town in and of itself does not cause a school to fail. So let me ask more directly:

Does the income and education levels of USC parents compared to Clairton parents play a large role in determining the excellence or failure of said schools?
Of course it does. The current system has FAILED Clairton. That's why I want it changed. But exposing 10% of Clairton kids to USC wealth won't help them much, if at all. The Clairton school district is failing, let's spend the taxpayer's money to change that. It'll take a long time, there is no quick fix. And as long as the unions control the politicians, the problem will persist.
 
Of course it does. The current system has FAILED Clairton. That's why I want it changed. But exposing 10% of Clairton kids to USC wealth won't help them much, if at all. The Clairton school district is failing, let's spend the taxpayer's money to change that. It'll take a long time, there is no quick fix. And as long as the unions control the politicians, the problem will persist.
What has the current system done to fail Clairton?
 
Of course it does. The current system has FAILED Clairton. That's why I want it changed. But exposing 10% of Clairton kids to USC wealth won't help them much, if at all. The Clairton school district is failing, let's spend the taxpayer's money to change that. It'll take a long time, there is no quick fix. And as long as the unions control the politicians, the problem will persist.
That’s total nonsense
 
Bad schools, with no choices. PPS, ditto for many.
You're not answering the questions. What is making Clairton a bad school? You said its a poor town. Can you expound on that? Are you saying the town is too poor to fund a quality public education system? Are the class sizes too big because of this? Can they not afford more than the core subjects? What is causing this failure?
 
You're not answering the questions. What is making Clairton a bad school? You said its a poor town. Can you expound on that? Are you saying the town is too poor to fund a quality public education system? Are the class sizes too big because of this? Can they not afford more than the core subjects? What is causing this failure?
Combination of things....poverty, family culture, low taxes reduce teacher quality and fewer class options. Same stuff in lots of rural districts.
 
Combination of things....poverty, family culture, low taxes reduce teacher quality and fewer class options. Same stuff in lots of rural districts.
I actually agree with you here except I would bet Clairton teachers are about at the same level as anywhere else.

What you are saying is the town's demographics are causing the failing school.....and by failing I assume you are meaning low standardized test schools, graduation rates, percentage of students going to college, etc. I agree, its demographics, not "the school."

So you're solution is to have taxpayers pay to send those kids to Serra Catholic. One of my solutions is to allow them to attend TJ. Why not just merge Clairton with TJ or EF? Ironically, the TJ school district was borne out of secession from Clairton for racist reasons.

The PA Public school system works extraordinarily well in districts that have good demographics. So why not merge some of these districts together? Do we really need 5 school districts in Greene County? Does Clairton need its own school district of 30 kids per grade? Should Fayette County have 7 school districts? How about 2?

Anyone who thinks Serra Catholic, with teachers making $25K would provide a better education than TJ or EF is crazy. If you really cared about those kids from Clairton, you'd want them going to TJ or EF....or bus them further away to a USC for example. But you dont. You just want to weaken the teachers union because you have a weird obsessive hatred of unions. But that's fine. You're allowed to be anti-union. But just don't masquerade like you care about Clairton kids and the only way to help them is for us to pay to send them to a private school.
 
I agree with the part about Clairton's teachers being more or less similar quality to higher profile school districts. In fact, some teachers start in Clairton, PPS, Wilkinsburg, etc. because that is where the jobs are. Then when they get the chance, they move to some of those other districts. Sure, they are more experienced when they make the move, but they are still the same people. And as mentioned, the Catholic schools offer modest pay for teachers and are reputed to offer quality educations - so teacher pay does not equal teacher quality. And anyway, how would you really rate teacher quality beyond years of experience and advanced degrees? It's so subjective
 
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I actually agree with you here except I would bet Clairton teachers are about at the same level as anywhere else.

What you are saying is the town's demographics are causing the failing school.....and by failing I assume you are meaning low standardized test schools, graduation rates, percentage of students going to college, etc. I agree, its demographics, not "the school."

So you're solution is to have taxpayers pay to send those kids to Serra Catholic. One of my solutions is to allow them to attend TJ. Why not just merge Clairton with TJ or EF? Ironically, the TJ school district was borne out of secession from Clairton for racist reasons.

The PA Public school system works extraordinarily well in districts that have good demographics. So why not merge some of these districts together? Do we really need 5 school districts in Greene County? Does Clairton need its own school district of 30 kids per grade? Should Fayette County have 7 school districts? How about 2?

Anyone who thinks Serra Catholic, with teachers making $25K would provide a better education than TJ or EF is crazy. If you really cared about those kids from Clairton, you'd want them going to TJ or EF....or bus them further away to a USC for example. But you dont. You just want to weaken the teachers union because you have a weird obsessive hatred of unions. But that's fine. You're allowed to be anti-union. But just don't masquerade like you care about Clairton kids and the only way to help them is for us to pay to send them to a private school.
I don't care about corporate unions, just public employee unions. Not the workers, the bosses. Only a big government lover would find that weird.
And what is wrong with letting kids have better opportunities with no additional taxes?
Those prior forced mergers are hated by good districts. They lower the district's ratings, housing devalues, the poor districts bring little taxes and poor facilities to care for. I've seen it, 35% of the revenue, 60% of the students. Two wrongs don't make a right.
And I'm sure you and your neighbors would fight that viciously.
 
Do we really need 5 school districts in Greene County?

What schools do you merge?

To get from the northwest corner to the southwest corner of West Greene's school district, you're looking at 50-65 minute car drive. In a bus, it's even longer. It would never work merging West Greene with anyone.

Do you merge Jefferson and Waynesburg? Can you imagine taking a bus everyday from those distances. Clarksburg to Waynesburg Central is at least 25 minutes probably 45 minutes to an hour on a bus route. If you drive from Port Marion to Waynesburg in a car, you're looking at a 30-35 minute drive.

Maybe Jefferson and Carmichaels could work.
 
If you and/or family values education and everything that comes with it, you typically thrive regardless of environment.

Just tired of the excuses.
I am a sole parent. Not just single parent, solo parent. Children are not widgets. They come in all varieties, skills and challenges. Likewise families. Valuing something alone doesn’t work miracles. Time constraints, health constraints, economic constraints are all real. Value is one thing, but circumstances and something called life have a way of taking control out of our hands.
I’m not making excuses, but I can assure you that no one I know wanted to be me as a sole/solo parent. Deceased grandparents and aunts and uncles 2000 miles away didn’t help much.
I know I’m not the only one out there who values education and has challenges. I’d ask you to look at it from a different perspective before you paint with such a broad brush.
 
What schools do you merge?

To get from the northwest corner to the southwest corner of West Greene's school district, you're looking at 50-65 minute car drive. In a bus, it's even longer. It would never work merging West Greene with anyone.

Do you merge Jefferson and Waynesburg? Can you imagine taking a bus everyday from those distances. Clarksburg to Waynesburg Central is at least 25 minutes probably 45 minutes to an hour on a bus route. If you drive from Port Marion to Waynesburg in a car, you're looking at a 30-35 minute drive.

Maybe Jefferson and Carmichaels could work.
Kids bus over an hour from the Maryland border to downtown Uniontown for HS. When you live in rural areas, this is life. I would merge all 5 Greene County Districts into 1. Have 3-4 elementary schools, 1-2 middle schools, and 1 HS.
 
I don't care about corporate unions, just public employee unions. Not the workers, the bosses. Only a big government lover would find that weird.
And what is wrong with letting kids have better opportunities with no additional taxes?
Those prior forced mergers are hated by good districts. They lower the district's ratings, housing devalues, the poor districts bring little taxes and poor facilities to care for. I've seen it, 35% of the revenue, 60% of the students. Two wrongs don't make a right.
And I'm sure you and your neighbors would fight that viciously.
And its fine to dislike those unions but you need to find another reason to bust them. You know darn well that the union isnt causing Clairton to fail. Your using it as an excuse to bust unions. At least I hope you're doing that because its pretty clear that the unions arent the cause of poor kids doing poorly on standardized tests.

And I think you greatly exaggerate the education level at private schools. The teachers make nothing and are all trying to get into public school. I know a former principal who quit to take a public school teaching job. I have family members who went to a "good" private school. 1 got straight A's the whole way through despite having a below average IQ. Everyone gets As in those schools. They cant piss off any customers. And there's no standardized testing so for those who judge quality of a school based on PSSA's (which is really stupid to do BTW), how do you really know Serra Catholic is better than Clairton?

Finally, I would agree my neighbors would fight any plan which brought in poor kids. Even a woke community like Lebo would. But its the right thing to do and I would be all for it. Every kid should get an equal shot. The TJ parents can move if they dont want their kids going to school with Clairton kids.
 
Kids bus over an hour from the Maryland border to downtown Uniontown for HS. When you live in rural areas, this is life. I would merge all 5 Greene County Districts into 1. Have 3-4 elementary schools, 1-2 middle schools, and 1 HS.

Have you ever driven on some back roads in Greene County? I'm talking out in the Ryerson/Crabtree/New Freeport areas? In many of these places busses are not accessible to kids homes and they walk quite a distance to catch a bus. West Greene alone is a logistical nightmare just within the district. They spend probably more on bussing than any school in the state.

The only good you'd get from merging of all these schools is one hell of a wrestling team.
 
Have you ever driven on some back roads in Greene County? I'm talking out in the Ryerson/Crabtree/New Freeport areas? In many of these places busses are not accessible to kids homes and they walk quite a distance to catch a bus. West Greene alone is a logistical nightmare just within the district. They spend probably more on bussing than any school in the state.

The only good you'd get from merging of all these schools is one hell of a wrestling team.
What about other rural school districts which encompass an entire county? Cameron, Potter, Elk, Garrett (MD), WV counties? That's life. The cost savings and resources available to a 5A Greene County HS would be extremely beneficial to those kids.
 
What about other rural school districts which encompass an entire county? Cameron, Potter, Elk, Garrett (MD), WV counties? That's life. The cost savings and resources available to a 5A Greene County HS would be extremely beneficial to those kids.

And in all of thse counties there is a reason they have a few small districts instead of 1 very big school.

I'm not sure what resources any of the Greene County schools have over one another. All of these kids have access to the same technology. The classroom size is a major benefit of going to a small school.

I'm not sure how they'd save money when they'd have to travel more.
 
And in all of thse counties there is a reason they have a few small districts instead of 1 very big school.

I'm not sure what resources any of the Greene County schools have over one another. All of these kids have access to the same technology. The classroom size is a major benefit of going to a small school.

I'm not sure how they'd save money when they'd have to travel more.

How many different courses could a West Greene offer compared to a 5A HS?
 
And its fine to dislike those unions but you need to find another reason to bust them. You know darn well that the union isnt causing Clairton to fail. Your using it as an excuse to bust unions. At least I hope you're doing that because its pretty clear that the unions arent the cause of poor kids doing poorly on standardized tests.

And I think you greatly exaggerate the education level at private schools. The teachers make nothing and are all trying to get into public school. I know a former principal who quit to take a public school teaching job. I have family members who went to a "good" private school. 1 got straight A's the whole way through despite having a below average IQ. Everyone gets As in those schools. They cant piss off any customers. And there's no standardized testing so for those who judge quality of a school based on PSSA's (which is really stupid to do BTW), how do you really know Serra Catholic is better than Clairton?

Finally, I would agree my neighbors would fight any plan which brought in poor kids. Even a woke community like Lebo would. But its the right thing to do and I would be all for it. Every kid should get an equal shot. The TJ parents can move if they dont want their kids going to school with Clairton kids.
You are full of crap. Lots of private school teachers prefer staying there, and the union politics is one reason. Unlike you, money isn't the goal for everyone.
There are standard tests. And some schools have union teachers.
A kid bussed into a fancy district has a tough time, and USC kids bussed to Clairton won't be happy, either. Every kid should have a fair shot, but your solution, fueled by bad info and bigotry is a non-starter.
 
You are full of crap. Lots of private school teachers prefer staying there, and the union politics is one reason. Unlike you, money isn't the goal for everyone.
There are standard tests. And some schools have union teachers.
A kid bussed into a fancy district has a tough time, and USC kids bussed to Clairton won't be happy, either. Every kid should have a fair shot, but your solution, fueled by bad info and bigotry is a non-starter.
Money is the goal for most people. I know a retired private school teacher well and the family is dirt poor. Its really sad. I remember I heard what she made and it was sickening. I think it was less than 20K but this was maybe 10 years ago or so. I am sorry but I don't believe that teachers living in poverty are the answer to improving kids' standardized test scores (because that's how your judging the schools).

Also, going back to the private school where family members attended....wow was it depressing going there. The school looked like it was about to fall apart. The athletic facilities were abysmal. I felt bad they had to go to school in a place like that. It was embarrassing.

Why do you think kids Clairton kids would do better at Serra than TJ? I'm not sure anyone would rank Serra as better school academically than TJ.
 
Money is the goal for most people. I know a retired private school teacher well and the family is dirt poor. Its really sad. I remember I heard what she made and it was sickening. I think it was less than 20K but this was maybe 10 years ago or so. I am sorry but I don't believe that teachers living in poverty are the answer to improving kids' standardized test scores (because that's how your judging the schools).

Also, going back to the private school where family members attended....wow was it depressing going there. The school looked like it was about to fall apart. The athletic facilities were abysmal. I felt bad they had to go to school in a place like that. It was embarrassing.

Why do you think kids Clairton kids would do better at Serra than TJ? I'm not sure anyone would rank Serra as better school academically than TJ.
Well, if that teacher's job was funded with the same tax money as the public school, that problem disappears.
And your fascination with physical appearance shows your lack of understanding. My idea closes all those gaps....yours drags kids out of their environment, dumps them into a fancy school where they'll be shunned.
Put it this way.....my youngest did K-8 in a parochial school, we paid all our taxes to the district and paid tuition to the school. When she went to see P-R's counselor the spring of 8th grade, to schedule classes, the young woman asked where she had gone to school. Her simple comment after we told her: "Great, you're already ahead of the kids in OUR schools."
 
Agreed. But the public school monopoly hurts the poorest kids and aids the wealthiest. Parochial schools don't spend nearly as much as public schools, and often have far superior results.
Yes they do, in many cases. And public schools in MANY districts are failing to educate kids adequately, including kids w/o special needs. Families of kids in Parochial schools pay the same taxes as folks with kids in public schools, and are willing and able to afford the other options. Give poor families their choice, too via income-range vouchers. When PPS spend 50% more than NA/P-R/USC/Lebo do per student, why are the results so inferior? Competition improves things, not monopolies.
You know why PPS spend far more? Look at the percentage of students requiring special programs like Title 1, special education, free and reduced lunches.
 
Agreed. But the public school monopoly hurts the poorest kids and aids the wealthiest. Parochial schools don't spend nearly as much as public schools, and often have far superior results.
The spend less because they don’t have to provide things like transportation, special education and items like free and reduced cost lunches.
The better results are a result of the ability to be selective in enrollment. They also can remove students who don’t perform which public schools can’t do.
 
Put it this way.....my youngest did K-8 in a parochial school, we paid all our taxes to the district and paid tuition to the school. When she went to see P-R's counselor the spring of 8th grade, to schedule classes, the young woman asked where she had gone to school. Her simple comment after we told her: "Great, you're already ahead of the kids in OUR schools."
I've seen the opposite in my experience. Students who went to K-8 parochial schools were behind the public school students because the parochial schools did not offer as many courses, particularly in math and science.
 
I've seen the opposite in my experience. Students who went to K-8 parochial schools were behind the public school students because the parochial schools did not offer as many courses, particularly in math and science.
I've heard that about the math and science with Catholic school kids. though i've aslo heard from multiple educators that the Catholics school kids are usually better at writing and grammar. maybe the nuns just aren't as good at STEM :)
 
I actually agree with you here except I would bet Clairton teachers are about at the same level as anywhere else.

What you are saying is the town's demographics are causing the failing school.....and by failing I assume you are meaning low standardized test schools, graduation rates, percentage of students going to college, etc. I agree, its demographics, not "the school."

So you're solution is to have taxpayers pay to send those kids to Serra Catholic. One of my solutions is to allow them to attend TJ. Why not just merge Clairton with TJ or EF? Ironically, the TJ school district was borne out of secession from Clairton for racist reasons.

The PA Public school system works extraordinarily well in districts that have good demographics. So why not merge some of these districts together? Do we really need 5 school districts in Greene County? Does Clairton need its own school district of 30 kids per grade? Should Fayette County have 7 school districts? How about 2?

Anyone who thinks Serra Catholic, with teachers making $25K would provide a better education than TJ or EF is crazy. If you really cared about those kids from Clairton, you'd want them going to TJ or EF....or bus them further away to a USC for example. But you dont. You just want to weaken the teachers union because you have a weird obsessive hatred of unions. But that's fine. You're allowed to be anti-union. But just don't masquerade like you care about Clairton kids and the only way to help them is for us to pay to send them to a private school.
The forced merger of school districts was tried and proven to be a failure for Woodland Hills. Sure, they won some football games....
but the school is terrible, the taxes are crazy high, and over half the kids in the district end up in private schools. Moreover, the majority of boroughs forced into the merger have seen their own prosperity decline as well. Does anyone think of Churchill as a wealthy area anymore? Nope. Swissvale went from a nice middle class neighborhood and turned into a dump. And guess what, Braddock and Rankin are still dumps just like they were before the merger.
 
The forced merger of school districts was tried and proven to be a failure for Woodland Hills. Sure, they won some football games....
but the school is terrible, the taxes are crazy high, and over half the kids in the district end up in private schools. Moreover, the majority of boroughs forced into the merger have seen their own prosperity decline as well. Does anyone think of Churchill as a wealthy area anymore? Nope. Swissvale went from a nice middle class neighborhood and turned into a dump. And guess what, Braddock and Rankin are still dumps just like they were before the merger.
It wasn’t a failure. Westinghouse real estate was a failure.

For at least the first bunch of years, the education was outstanding. Better physics than all but the public NYC magnet schools. Prepared kids well for Cornell, UVA, Amherst, Pitt, Harvard, John’s Hopkins, etc. Plus, our class ranks + 800s were a cheat code for getting in. And yes, top students did come from all areas.
 
The spend less because they don’t have to provide things like transportation, special education and items like free and reduced cost lunches.
The better results are a result of the ability to be selective in enrollment. They also can remove students who don’t perform which public schools can’t do.
Not so on selection at parochial schools. They only remove discipline problems, but have fewer than public schools. As for costs, they get transport and some books. Not sure if they get food subsidies. PPS spends 50% more than P=R, NA, etc. $23K. And they get oodles of Fed $$$$. Parochial schools are NOT like Sewickley, ShadySide, etc. They deliver results at about 50% of PPS. Of course, the PPS Board is controlled by the unions. But thanks for your list of excuses.
 
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I am a sole parent. Not just single parent, solo parent. Children are not widgets. They come in all varieties, skills and challenges. Likewise families. Valuing something alone doesn’t work miracles. Time constraints, health constraints, economic constraints are all real. Value is one thing, but circumstances and something called life have a way of taking control out of our hands.
I’m not making excuses, but I can assure you that no one I know wanted to be me as a sole/solo parent. Deceased grandparents and aunts and uncles 2000 miles away didn’t help much.
I know I’m not the only one out there who values education and has challenges. I’d ask you to look at it from a different perspective before you paint with such a broad brush.
That is valid
But you seem engaged in your child’s education which is enough.
Someone asking the kid about their day at school , making sure they do their homework , and helping to make sure they are ready for tests is the primary criteria for a kid not falling through the cracks

in public schools too often there isnt that person for a variety of confounding issues
It’s why the magnet schools - where still public - but take an effort from a guardian to fill out the lottery application -
Have better results than assigned schools

same principle for private schools - you have someone who put the effort to enroll and pay for the school - that kid is already checking those boxes

ntop’s problem is creating a correlation to the outcomes than the variables
The school matters only so much as it’s a safe place to learn
80% of the student outcomes are determined outside the 4 walls of the building
 
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