So depressing...

[whirlybird optio]

A NCAA team figures out a way to win that game. Period.

Jamie was out coached, mike young is a gutless crybaby who mopes anytime anything goes wrong or anyone decides to play him tough.

Robinson, Luther, and Jones really give 100%, but it's not enough when your two seemingly best talents still play like morons in crunch time.

We refuse to defend. We simply refuse. No other team gives up more open shots than we do.

At this point, we're an NIT team. Maybe we luck into the dance with a 9-9 record, but who cares. This game was so important, and so meaningful, and our roster of gutless, heartless players (well, at least 2 of the 5) choke again. Oh sure, we'll beat teams that don't play defense (Cuse), don't play hard (FSU), or when we shoot like 90% and get a huge lead (ND), but if we are in a tough game, we wilt. Every time.

Jamie gets another cycle of players to figure this out, maybe 2-3 more years, but I'm not holding my breath. We have a collection of NIT talents and maybe worse that Jamie has turned into a bubble team. Great. He better figure out this roster.

I'll say this, if Luther gets every one of mike young's minutes the rest of this year and next, I'm fine with it. Really, really enjoyed how he flexed after that jam, and then missed the FT and then gave up a layup. You the man mike, keep flexing.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

A NCAA team figures out a way to win that game. Period.

Jamie was out coached, mike young is a gutless crybaby who mopes anytime anything goes wrong or anyone decides to play him tough.

Robinson, Luther, and Jones really give 100%, but it's not enough when your two seemingly best talents still play like morons in crunch time.

We refuse to defend. We simply refuse. No other team gives up more open shots than we do.

At this point, we're an NIT team. Maybe we luck into the dance with a 9-9 record, but who cares. This game was so important, and so meaningful, and our roster of gutless, heartless players (well, at least 2 of the 5) choke again. Oh sure, we'll beat teams that don't play defense (Cuse), don't play hard (FSU), or when we shoot like 90% and get a huge lead (ND), but if we are in a tough game, we wilt. Every time.

Jamie gets another cycle of players to figure this out, maybe 2-3 more years, but I'm not holding my breath. We have a collection of NIT talents and maybe worse that Jamie has turned into a bubble team. Great. He better figure out this roster.

I'll say this, if Luther gets every one of mike young's minutes the rest of this year and next, I'm fine with it. Really, really enjoyed how he flexed after that jam, and then missed the FT and then gave up a layup. You the man mike, keep flexing.

Well said

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

Couldn't have said it better myself my man , this team just can't get it done ... Young made some big shots but he is only interested in 1 on 1 play .. There are no positives from this except Ryan Luther .. This team is so so frustrating ..

 

[PittPoker]

Robinson played poorly, especially late in the 2nd half. He is our point guard, he is a senior. He showed no leadership and we needed some the last few minutes. Don't include him in the "trying hard" group. He was a disappointment, especially that he played much better the past few games before.

 

[whirlybird optio]

Robinson played poorly, especially late in the 2nd half. He is our point guard, he is a senior. He showed no leadership and we needed some the last few minutes. Don't include him in the "trying hard" group. He was a disappointment, especially that he played much better the past few games before.

If you think mike young and robinson's effort are comprable we are watching different games.

 

[noelr]

Wait until sunday when we play a team that can shoot and see allen go 9 for 12 from three.

 

[PittPoker]

If you think mike young and robinson's effort are comprable we are watching different games.

Okay maybe James gave more effort but he still has not stepped up in any consistent fashion as a senior and as a leader. Tonight was 1 more example.

 

[whirlybird optio]

Okay maybe James gave more effort but he still has not stepped up in any consistent fashion as a senior and as a leader. Tonight was 1 more example.

I know you hate him, but he is what he is. Mike young could be better, but he isn't. To me, that is the much more unforgivable sin.

 

[whirlybird optio]

Wait until sunday when we play a team that can shoot and see allen go 9 for 12 from three.

Oh, here's how we are gonna lose that one. It won't be Allen. Luke Kinnard is hitting 5-6 threes against us. Book it. Brandon Ingram will also enjoy, I'm quite sure, mike young's attempt to play "defense".

 

[Piranha]

Okay maybe James gave more effort but he still has not stepped up in any consistent fashion as a senior and as a leader. Tonight was 1 more example.

Robinson - 12 points, 3 boards, and 3 assists. He was not the problem. The guys committing unforced TO's, missing FT, and layups are the problem. He is never going to be Cat Barber.

 

[PittPoker]

I know you hate him, but he is what he is. Mike young could be better, but he isn't. To me, that is the much more unforgivable sin.

I don't hate him but I am disappointed in his career here. He never improved and with him at the helm(alhough not all his fault of course) we have had a pretty disappointing 4 year stretch. This game late was a prime example of what he "failed to do".

 

[whirlybird optio]

Robinson - 12 points, 3 boards, and 3 assists. He was not the problem. The guys committing unforced TO's, missing FT, and layups are the problem. He is never going to be Cat Barber.

Yea, I'm surprised Robinson is getting so much heat here. Especially when the two players who we all know are the problems once again were up to their old tricks.

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

I never thought I would be saying this as dumb as it sounds but James is not the problem , our 2 most talented players are our biggest problem

 

[Piranha]

Yea, I'm surprised Robinson is getting so much heat here. Especially when the two players who we all know are the problems once again were up to their old tricks.

Robinson is the guy who kept the ship afloat against WF when most of the guys had packed it in. People are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[whirlybird optio]

I never thought I would be saying this as dumb as it sounds but James is not the problem , our 2 most talented players are our biggest problem

Exactly. If basketball is a game of pieces, you can win a lot of games with James as your PG. What is obvious is that you can't win enough games when your two best players are Young and Artis. If you swap out young and Artis for say Sam Young and Dejuan Blair (bear with me, it's a silly argument but still), and James is your PG, you will win a ton of games. James will get them the ball in the right spots, he'll be fine. Is he as good as Levance, no, but he's still good enough to be a piece on a very, very good team. Maybe Artis and young can be too, but they can't be your best players, not if you want to go anywhere.

 

[PittPoker]

Robinson is the guy who kept the ship afloat against WF when most of the guys had packed it in. People are barking up the wrong tree.

That's against an awful team. Big difference. Clutch players and leaders step up in BIG games. James disappeared late tonight. Yes there were other players that stunk but that doesn't excuse James.

 

[noelr]

This is a one and done team in the acc and tourney at best, the latter if it gets in. Not capable of winning two games in a row against decent and above competition.

Does anyone remember how wake handed us the game a week ago?

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

Exactly. If basketball is a game of pieces, you can win a lot of games with James as your PG. What is obvious is that you can't win enough games when your two best players are Young and Artis. If you swap out young and Artis for say Sam Young and Dejuan Blair (bear with me, it's a silly argument but still), and James is your PG, you will win a ton of games. James will get them the ball in the right spots, he'll be fine. Is he as good as Levance, no, but he's still good enough to be a piece on a very, very good team. Maybe Artis and young can be too, but they can't be your best players, not if you want to go anywhere.

I agree again .. Honestly as smart and as great a player as Levance was , if you put him on this team I don't think even he could overcome how dumb some of the guys on this team play .. The only thing that might be different is he would really be a leader and challenge guys like Artis and young and let them know it's a team game and they are not even close to the stars they think they are .. You can tell we have no leader the past couple years because these guys ESPECIALLY Young just go out there and do whatever they what whenever they want and it's sickening

 

[UPitt '89]

That's against an awful team. Big difference. Clutch players and leaders step up in BIG games. James disappeared late tonight. Yes there were other players that stunk but that doesn't excuse James.

If there are 5 main reasons why Pitt lost tonight.... James Robinson isn't in the list.

Jamie Dixon is in the list. He didn't put his best team on the floor at the most important part of the game.

Mike Young is in the list. He continues to be a selfish, stupid player who puts himself ahead of the team and thinks he can take anyone off the dribble.

Jamel Artis is in the list. He continues to refuse to defend and continues to be careless with the basketball and commit way too many turnovers.

Sheldon Jeter is in the list. He continues to refuse to defend at all, and gave nothing on offense.

Sterling Smith is in the list. He has completely disappeared and lost his starting job because of it.


You know who's not in the list?

Ryan Luther.
James Robinson.
Chris Jones.

 

[whirlybird optio]

That's against an awful team. Big difference. Clutch players and leaders step up in BIG games. James disappeared late tonight. Yes there were other players that stunk but that doesn't excuse James.

But he's so far down the list tonight. He may have been our second best overall player today. Because he's the only guy who even tries on defense, we had him guarding the SF a few possession. I don't think he "stunk" tonight.

I'm just shocked he's getting so much heat, it's obvious who should be the focus tonight.

 

[PittPoker]

If there are 5 main reasons why Pitt lost tonight.... James Robinson isn't in the list.

Jamie Dixon is in the list. He didn't put his best team on the floor at the most important part of the game.

Mike Young is in the list. He continues to be a selfish, stupid player who puts himself ahead of the team and thinks he can take anyone off the dribble.

Jamel Artis is in the list. He continues to refuse to defend and continues to be careless with the basketball and commit way too many turnovers.

Sheldon Jeter is in the list. He continues to refuse to defend at all, and gave nothing on offense.

Sterling Smith is in the list. He has completely disappeared and lost his starting job because of it.


You know who's not in the list?

Ryan Luther.
James Robinson.
Chris Jones.

We just disagree about James. Look, it's late and the team could see the game is getting away from them. James as a senior leader needed to take over. He drove for some bad layup, never took a 3, never did anything. Again he is a senior and our point guard. He bears some of the blame. Not all by any means but some.

 

[PittPoker]

I agree again .. Honestly as smart and as great a player as Levance was , if you put him on this team I don't think even he could overcome how dumb some of the guys on this team play .. The only thing that might be different is he would really be a leader and challenge guys like Artis and young and let them know it's a team game and they are not even close to the stars they think they are .. You can tell we have no leader the past couple years because these guys ESPECIALLY Young just go out there and do whatever they what whenever they want and it's sickening

I'll tell you what he would have done late, he would have stepped back and made some damn 3's. He was clutch.

 

[whirlybird optio]

We just disagree about James. Look, it's late and the team could see the game is getting away from them. James as a senior leader needed to take over. He drove for some bad layup, never took a 3, never did anything. Again he is a senior and our point guard. He bears some of the blame. Not all by any means but some.

What does being a senior have to do with anything? If he's a senior pass first PG who is a smart player and a pretty good defender, why is he the guy who needs to take over? That's not his role.

We have guys who should be able to take over. They don't.

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

I'll tell you what he would have done late, he would have stepped back and made some damn 3's. He was clutch.

I agree with you there my man , he's not on Vances level , I was just saying this team is to dumb to overcome these type of outcomes .. To be fair also James has made his share of clutch plays over the years

 

[PittPoker]

What does being a senior have to do with anything? If he's a senior pass first PG who is a smart player and a pretty good defender, why is he the guy who needs to take over? That's not his role.

We have guys who should be able to take over. They don't.

Because he had been shooting the ball better lately and we needed some 3's.

 

[whirlybird optio]

I'll tell you what he would have done late, he would have stepped back and made some damn 3's. He was clutch.

If you trade James for Levance we maybe, maybe have a win or two more. Trade Artis and young for two other "stars", we are a top 15 team, with James at PG. No question.

 

[UPitt '89]

I'll tell you what he would have done late, he would have stepped back and made some damn 3's. He was clutch.

James Robinson hit a game tying three at Miami with 14 seconds left two weeks ago.

We don't remember it because Mike Young and Jamel Artis didn't box out and allowed a 5'10" guard to tip in the game winner.

But it was a clutch shot.

James Robinson also saved the season in the final moments against Wake Forest by hitting a game-tying three with 19 seconds left that forced overtime. He then stole an inbounds pass late in the first OT and made a FT to force the second overtime. Both were extremely clutch.

Again... your hatred of James Robinson is noted. But he played well enough to win today, if our two most-talented players didn't have their heads up their asses a dozen times each tonight.... and if his coach would've kept his best player TODAY in the game when the game was on the line.

 

[Piranha]

That's against an awful team. Big difference. Clutch players and leaders step up in BIG games. James disappeared late tonight. Yes there were other players that stunk but that doesn't excuse James.

You have unrealistic expectations for him.

If you trade James for Levance we maybe, maybe have a win or two more. Trade Artis and young for two other "stars", we are a top 15 team, with James at PG. No question.

Agreed - Young and Artis are the bigger issues. Shine the magnifying glass on their turnovers, poor defense, and low bball IQ.

 

[whirlybird optio]

Because he had been shooting the ball better lately and we needed some 3's.

I agree with you there my man , he's not on Vances level , I was just saying this team is to dumb to overcome these type of outcomes .. To be fair also James has made his share of clutch plays over the years

I mean, just this year, he hit the shot against Wake. He hit the tying three vs Miami. He's had game winners previously, Nova and VT if I remember right. Now, levances winning moments were against Duke and against Xavier in the sweet 16. James can't compete with that, but I actually think of him as a clutch player. Very much so.

 

[PittPoker]

James Robinson hit a game tying three at Miami with 14 seconds left two weeks ago.

We don't remember it because Mike Young and Jamel Artis didn't box out and allowed a 5'10" guard to tip in the game winner.

But it was a clutch shot.

James Robinson also saved the season in the final moments against Wake Forest by hitting a game-tying three with 19 seconds left that forced overtime. He then stole an inbounds pass late in the first OT and made a FT to force the second overtime. Both were extremely clutch.

Again... your hatred of James Robinson is noted. But he played well enough to win today, if our two most-talented players didn't have their heads up their asses a dozen times each tonight.... and if his coach would've kept his best player TODAY in the game when the game was on the line.

I DON'T HATE JAMES ROBINSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There, had to get that off my chest. I just think he needed to step up late tonight when he could see the game slipping away. That's what senior starters are supposed to do. He did not.

 

[Piranha]

I mean, just this year, he hit the shot against Wake. He hit the tying three vs Miami. He's had game winners previously, Nova and VT if I remember right. Now, levances winning moments were against Duke and against Xavier in the sweet 16. James can't compete with that, but I actually think of him as a clutch player. Very much so.

His Fr. year we were going to lose to Oakland at home, and he singlehandedly brought us back. We literally started getting up to leave and then rushed back thanks to JR.

 

[88Pitt88]

I don't hate him but I am disappointed in his career here. He never improved and with him at the helm(alhough not all his fault of course) we have had a pretty disappointing 4 year stretch. This game late was a prime example of what he "failed to do".

Poker, I too, hoped for more from him. I have come to realize that James is not the problem. He does all he can. The issue is the lack of talent that is assembled around him. We are to flawed. Our 4 is a little to short and can't play defense. Our 3 doesn't have a good handle and hasn't shot well for a while now other than at Cuse and he cannot play defense. We don't have an effective 5 or 2. What do you want from him when that is what he is stuck with?

James will be gone and what capable talent remains for next year is comprised of Luther, Jones, Johnson, and the newcomers. No more James to complain about.

 

[whirlybird optio]

His Fr. year we were going to lose to Oakland at home, and he singlehandedly brought us back. We literally started getting up to leave and then rushed back thanks to JR.

I sweat he hit a buzzer beater against Nova on senior day that year...maybe I'm wrong.

He definitely hit a big shot against VT at home as a sophomore in a game Lamar missed with an injury(or maybe that was the game Lamar was like 0-10 from the field). I'd have to look it up.

 

[Piranha]

I sweat he hit a buzzer beater against Nova on senior day that year...maybe I'm wrong.

He definitely hit a big shot against VT at home as a sophomore in a game Lamar missed with an injury(or maybe that was the game Lamar was like 0-10 from the field). I'd have to look it up.

Was it the 4 point play against VT? It looked bleak until his shot.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

But he's so far down the list tonight. He may have been our second best overall player today. Because he's the only guy who even tries on defense, we had him guarding the SF a few possession. I don't think he "stunk" tonight.

I'm just shocked he's getting so much heat, it's obvious who should be the focus tonight.

There's an an insanely unhealthy obsession And fixation on him by a Few psychos

 

[whirlybird optio]

Was it the 4 point play against VT? It looked bleak until his shot.

Yes, that's it.

Also, James was really, really good in the ACCT and in the nCaa's vs Colorado two years ago. He's played well in big games, lots of big games. I just think the narrative on him is all wrong.

 

[UPitt '89]

The reason I have no problem with James is this.

He is playing as good as he possibly can. He is at his ceiling.

The same is true for Chris Jones.

The reason I have special disgust for Young and Artis is that they have higher ceilings than their current playing level. They just refuse to play to their potential.

I will never be upset or disappointed in a scholarship player that reaches his full potential.

James Robinson has reached his full potential. If the players around him were better, we'd look more fondly on his years here.

He was a plus player tonight.... he defended, he distributed, he protected the ball, he made some shots, including his FTs. His performance was good enough to win... if his more talented teammates would've played above the line.

It's why I had no problem with Nasir Robinson... he was the best possible Nasir Robinson he could be. James Robinson is the best possible James Robinson he could be. He's maxed out his abilities.

But Mike Young is not anywhere near the best Mike Young he could be. And Jamel Artis is not the best Jamel Artis he could be. Those players have so much room between where they are and where they could be. That's the shame.

 

[DT_PITT]

The reason I have no problem with James is this.

He is playing as good as he possibly can. He is at his ceiling.

The same is true for Chris Jones.

The reason I have special disgust for Young and Artis is that they have higher ceilings than their current playing level. They just refuse to play to their potential.

I will never be upset or disappointed in a scholarship player that reaches his full potential.

James Robinson has reached his full potential. If the players around him were better, we'd look more fondly on his years here.

He was a plus player tonight.... he defended, he distributed, he protected the ball, he made some shots, including his FTs. His performance was good enough to win... if his more talented teammates would've played above the line.

It's why I had no problem with Nasir Robinson... he was the best possible Nasir Robinson he could be. James Robinson is the best possible James Robinson he could be. He's maxed out his abilities.

But Mike Young is not anywhere near the best Mike Young he could be. And Jamel Artis is not the best Jamel Artis he could be. Those players have so much room between where they are and where they could be. That's the shame.

Again, stronger language I would use, but I tend to agree with your main premise. Mike is the most important player on this team, and this team can't be the best it can be with the way he's playing.

 

[DT_PITT]

I DON'T HATE JAMES ROBINSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There, had to get that off my chest. I just think he needed to step up late tonight when he could see the game slipping away. That's what senior starters are supposed to do. He did not.

I don't know if it's hate, or whatever you want to term it, but James doesn't deserve nearly the wrath you offer him, compared to several other players on the team.

 

[PittPoker]

I don't know if it's hate, or whatever you want to term it, but James doesn't deserve nearly the wrath you offer him, compared to several other players on the team.

It has been a 4 year build up.