So if Michael Moore thinks snipers are cowards, how does he
- Thread starter NTOP
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Re: Souf, I am surprised.
I really thought you would think highly of MM. Good to see you don't and congrats.
I really thought you would think highly of MM. Good to see you don't and congrats.
Righto.....if CNN is a "blog", what is Jones??
Besides the obviously successful effort to make $$ w/o ever proving anything. Lots of weak-minded wussies looking for bogeymen under their bed each night. Surprised that Alex isn't at Davos this year, masquerading as a bellhop.
The Moore incident was widely reported. Probably not at the Gint Iggle checkout line, yet.
Besides the obviously successful effort to make $$ w/o ever proving anything. Lots of weak-minded wussies looking for bogeymen under their bed each night. Surprised that Alex isn't at Davos this year, masquerading as a bellhop.
The Moore incident was widely reported. Probably not at the Gint Iggle checkout line, yet.
Re: Righto.....if CNN is a "blog", what is Jones??
Jones is basically a guy that started his own local cable show and built it into a internet news program. His value to me is that he interviews generals, former CIA and NSA employees, and business leaders who CNN and other MSM outlets won't touch.
Empty criticism coming from a guy who mainlines news propaganda from an organization created by Ted Turner and merged into AOLTime Warner. There's some real conservative bona fides right there, I tells ya!
"The most trusted name in news" LOL.
You don't see me posting repetitive links to InfoWars.com
Jones is basically a guy that started his own local cable show and built it into a internet news program. His value to me is that he interviews generals, former CIA and NSA employees, and business leaders who CNN and other MSM outlets won't touch.
Empty criticism coming from a guy who mainlines news propaganda from an organization created by Ted Turner and merged into AOLTime Warner. There's some real conservative bona fides right there, I tells ya!
"The most trusted name in news" LOL.
You don't see me posting repetitive links to InfoWars.com
Re: Righto.....if CNN is a "blog", what is Jones??
I think that anybody who relies on old mainstream sources are missing the boat on a lot of real news. On the other hand, a lot of the non-mainstream stuff like Infowars on the right and dailykos on the left are interesting and spur one into thinking about where the real truth lies. However, many times they stretch small bits of information into theories of overarching themes and conspiracy theories - sometimes outside the realm of credibility. Both mainstream and non-mainstream sources come from a biased perspective that must be taken into consideration when reading their pieces.
Not that anybody asked, but I would like to throw an opinion on this.Originally posted by BPKY:
Jones is basically a guy that started his own local cable show and built it into a internet news program. His value to me is that he interviews generals, former CIA and NSA employees, and business leaders who CNN and other MSM outlets won't touch.
Empty criticism coming from a guy who mainlines news propaganda from an organization created by Ted Turner and merged into AOLTime Warner. There's some real conservative bona fides right there, I tells ya!
"The most trusted name in news" LOL.
You don't see me posting repetitive links to InfoWars.com
I think that anybody who relies on old mainstream sources are missing the boat on a lot of real news. On the other hand, a lot of the non-mainstream stuff like Infowars on the right and dailykos on the left are interesting and spur one into thinking about where the real truth lies. However, many times they stretch small bits of information into theories of overarching themes and conspiracy theories - sometimes outside the realm of credibility. Both mainstream and non-mainstream sources come from a biased perspective that must be taken into consideration when reading their pieces.
Re: Righto.....if CNN is a "blog", what is Jones??
Well stated, IMO. As long as you have the salt shaker handy when listening to Alex ranting, you will probably be fine. At the same time, you need a polygraph when listening to FOX and CNN/MSNBC.
Well stated, IMO. As long as you have the salt shaker handy when listening to Alex ranting, you will probably be fine. At the same time, you need a polygraph when listening to FOX and CNN/MSNBC.
Re: I don't "listen" to any of them.
Ohhhhh, I get it now. You don't listen to others, but they should listen to YOUR editorial comments...
"Do as I say, not as I do!"
NTOP
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1922&mid=209429766&sid=996&tid=209356314&style=1
Ohhhhh, I get it now. You don't listen to others, but they should listen to YOUR editorial comments...
"Do as I say, not as I do!"
NTOP
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1922&mid=209429766&sid=996&tid=209356314&style=1
Why?
He's a loud mouth douche..
he's made some interesting films, but simply doesn't have any credibility to me beyond that.
He's a loud mouth douche..
he's made some interesting films, but simply doesn't have any credibility to me beyond that.
don't understand the harry reids, Michael moore, liberal points against this movie.. It's almost if any military person who isn't ashamed of being in combat is wrong.. We have a soldier here who took pride in his combat and that makes him a psycho?? Really.. So all of the vets who fought in past wars, who came home from fighting abroad and were proud of their service, they are psycho too? Somebody please tell me why military personnel should be ashamed of their service.. I don't know when this happened..
Well..objectively...
you can't be a mentally healthy person doing that job.
It's pretty much a requirement to be effective is to be a sociopath and dehumanize the targets.
you can't be a mentally healthy person doing that job.
It's pretty much a requirement to be effective is to be a sociopath and dehumanize the targets.
I have to disagree with you to some extent. It's a very stressful, but necessary job for a soldier. I'm sure a lot of snipers have some PTSD over what they had to do and I thank them for that. It is a sacrifice on their part.
The knock on Kyle is that he's one of the few that got off on it, and many think it's whack to use him as an example of heroism.
This guy has stronger feelings on the subject
The knock on Kyle is that he's one of the few that got off on it, and many think it's whack to use him as an example of heroism.
This guy has stronger feelings on the subject
I'm not saying it isn't stressful OR necessary.
i'm stating the job requirements pretty much exclude mentally healthy people.
i'm stating the job requirements pretty much exclude mentally healthy people.
Re: Video
Unfortunately, you had me pegged correctly.
That kid has a fairly popular blog he runs from his home in Japan (an actual "blog", not what NTOP calls a blog, which is anything on the web). He's rants against US imperialism and how the Zionists use our kids to die fighting their enemies; but he also rudely rails against any and all things religious, so I don't visit his site. I see his stuff frequently because the guy who runs whatreallyhappened.com links to him all the time. IMO he pushes the envelope
anti neocons
Unfortunately, you had me pegged correctly.
That kid has a fairly popular blog he runs from his home in Japan (an actual "blog", not what NTOP calls a blog, which is anything on the web). He's rants against US imperialism and how the Zionists use our kids to die fighting their enemies; but he also rudely rails against any and all things religious, so I don't visit his site. I see his stuff frequently because the guy who runs whatreallyhappened.com links to him all the time. IMO he pushes the envelope
anti neocons
I hope you mean coming out, not going in..........
If you tried to make an argument that no part of war is "mentally healthy" for veterans who have experienced it, then you may be on to something.
If you are implying (And I don't think you are) that only mentally unhealthy people choose to be soldiers, then I have a real beef with that.
Millions of "citizen" soldiers were drafted into the services during WW2, Korea, and Viet Nam. They were called upon to do things they would have never considered in their civilian lives. Dropping bombs on cities, shelling broad areas, using things like flame throwers, napalm, land mines, sinking ships full of other sailors, seeing their buddies killed or mutilated. These guys were just like anybody else going in and they did what they had to do to emerge victorious. War isn't a video game and it certainly affects people, some more permanently than others. Thankfully we now recognize things like PTSD and offer help and treatment for this affliction. A lot of GI's emerging from WW2 didn't have that help and many suffered through sad and sorry lives because of it.
Serving one's country during war time is neither a Republican or Democratic virtue, it is an American virtue.
If you tried to make an argument that no part of war is "mentally healthy" for veterans who have experienced it, then you may be on to something.
If you are implying (And I don't think you are) that only mentally unhealthy people choose to be soldiers, then I have a real beef with that.
Millions of "citizen" soldiers were drafted into the services during WW2, Korea, and Viet Nam. They were called upon to do things they would have never considered in their civilian lives. Dropping bombs on cities, shelling broad areas, using things like flame throwers, napalm, land mines, sinking ships full of other sailors, seeing their buddies killed or mutilated. These guys were just like anybody else going in and they did what they had to do to emerge victorious. War isn't a video game and it certainly affects people, some more permanently than others. Thankfully we now recognize things like PTSD and offer help and treatment for this affliction. A lot of GI's emerging from WW2 didn't have that help and many suffered through sad and sorry lives because of it.
Serving one's country during war time is neither a Republican or Democratic virtue, it is an American virtue.
Re: I hope you mean coming out, not going in..........
I'm saying to be in combat, let alone to thrive, you cannot be a mentally healthy person.
And I am saying to be EFFECTIVE as a sniper, you have to be sociopath like in that duty.
I fail to see how that's either insulting or demeaning.
CEO's likewise are sociopaths to be effective as are plenty of other jobs.
They are not roles were having empathy and moral ambiguity are good.
Chris Kyle, frankly... didn't view the Iraqis he was killing as human, he viewed them as sub-human savages...because...he had to. That's not mentally healthy. It's also completely required to be good at that job.
These two truths can exists simultaneously.
I'm saying to be in combat, let alone to thrive, you cannot be a mentally healthy person.
And I am saying to be EFFECTIVE as a sniper, you have to be sociopath like in that duty.
I fail to see how that's either insulting or demeaning.
CEO's likewise are sociopaths to be effective as are plenty of other jobs.
They are not roles were having empathy and moral ambiguity are good.
Chris Kyle, frankly... didn't view the Iraqis he was killing as human, he viewed them as sub-human savages...because...he had to. That's not mentally healthy. It's also completely required to be good at that job.
These two truths can exists simultaneously.
Re: what a bunch of bunk; pure psycho-blabber*
Okay.
You can certainly disagree that normal healthy people can compartmentalize killing lots of people, and return to a normal healthy life back in the real world.
I haven't personally meant many of those folks....and I'd wager, if they can cope that well...it's possible they weren't exactly mentally healthy to begin with.
Okay.
You can certainly disagree that normal healthy people can compartmentalize killing lots of people, and return to a normal healthy life back in the real world.
I haven't personally meant many of those folks....and I'd wager, if they can cope that well...it's possible they weren't exactly mentally healthy to begin with.
Re: what a bunch of bunk; pure psycho-blabber*
"The smell of Napalm in the morning", B-52 carpet bombing, fire bombing Dresden, 30 seconds over Tokyo etc., etc.,!
But I'm sure that you checked out every pilot that you've ever flown with to see that they were "exactly mentally healthy"
SHEESH....you really are a dolt, Souf!
CO
I take it you never flew on ANY commercial airliner that had a Naval/Air Force pilot......only difference of killing 162 is one flight and 30,000 ft. (vs. a sniper in 4 tours of duty and 2,000 ft.).
"The smell of Napalm in the morning", B-52 carpet bombing, fire bombing Dresden, 30 seconds over Tokyo etc., etc.,!
But I'm sure that you checked out every pilot that you've ever flown with to see that they were "exactly mentally healthy"
SHEESH....you really are a dolt, Souf!
CO
Re: what a bunch of bunk; pure psycho-blabber*
Disagree with something you didn't say!!!!
....more blabber
and imo you don't have a clue as to what you are taking about.
End of story
Not going to engage your nonsense and circumnavigation of the English language
This post was edited on 1/30 9:49 AM by paulbl99
Disagree with something you didn't say!!!!
....more blabber
and imo you don't have a clue as to what you are taking about.
End of story
Not going to engage your nonsense and circumnavigation of the English language
This post was edited on 1/30 9:49 AM by paulbl99
Re: I hope you mean coming out, not going in..........
To be effective in any combat situation, you have to be sociopath-like. That doesn't make someone a sociopath or someone lacking the capacity for empathy. Solders do these things because they have no real choice, as CO said. It's the reason we only go to war as a last resort. You don't want to put kids in that situation and ruin them for life. (It's also why the chicken hawk neocons who push for war should be in the front lines)
That's why we dehumanize the enemy as much as possible. We call them gooks, or huns, or savages or animals. But we do that because we are not sociopaths, not because we are. His critics say that Kyle didn't view his victims that way because he had to, but rather because he believed it. They see him as an outlier; maybe not as a total sociopath, but at least as someone who had no remorse whatsoever for killing Muslims. They claim that the film's portrayal of him as having emotional difficulty shooting anyone is pure fiction.
Did that make him a better sniper? It's very possible that it did. But I don't think we should be recruiting sociopaths just to increase our kill count 10 percent. There's also a concern that society is breeding a generation that's low on empathy, but that's another subject.
The point I'm making badly here is that you may have a point about Kyle, but let's not paint all snipers with that brush.
This post was edited on 1/30 9:27 AM by BPKY
To be effective in any combat situation, you have to be sociopath-like. That doesn't make someone a sociopath or someone lacking the capacity for empathy. Solders do these things because they have no real choice, as CO said. It's the reason we only go to war as a last resort. You don't want to put kids in that situation and ruin them for life. (It's also why the chicken hawk neocons who push for war should be in the front lines)
That's why we dehumanize the enemy as much as possible. We call them gooks, or huns, or savages or animals. But we do that because we are not sociopaths, not because we are. His critics say that Kyle didn't view his victims that way because he had to, but rather because he believed it. They see him as an outlier; maybe not as a total sociopath, but at least as someone who had no remorse whatsoever for killing Muslims. They claim that the film's portrayal of him as having emotional difficulty shooting anyone is pure fiction.
Did that make him a better sniper? It's very possible that it did. But I don't think we should be recruiting sociopaths just to increase our kill count 10 percent. There's also a concern that society is breeding a generation that's low on empathy, but that's another subject.
The point I'm making badly here is that you may have a point about Kyle, but let's not paint all snipers with that brush.
This post was edited on 1/30 9:27 AM by BPKY
