SportsIllustrated ‘desirability’ rankings for every P5 school

HailToPitt725

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SportsIllustrated ranked every Power 5 school’s desirability to other power conferences (e.g. B1G, SEC). The metrics included academics, attendance, football and all-sport rankings, and television ratings.

Link

Pitt was ranked 47th out of 69 schools. For reference, the WSJ ranked us 58th in a similar ranking in 2019.
 

recruitsreadtheseboards

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I was waiting for this. I posted on the pay site for us Members Only. But...

They used a method that includes these 5 categories
1. Football (for better or worse, Sagarin ratings over the last 5 years)
2. Academics (US News and World Report)
3. All Sports Ranking (Sears Cup)
4. Attendance
5. Viewership (Games over 1 million viewers)

Okay, the site is not behind a paywall unless you go to SI.com on a daily basis because I think you are allowed a few free articles a month. Anyways some excerpts:

Football: "The top school: Alabama, to the surprise of no one. The worst: Kansas, also the surprise of no one."

Academics: LOLOLOL......"The top academic school among the Power 5: Stanford. The school at the bottom: West Virginia."

All Sports: The top overall athletic program: Texas, for the second straight year. The laggard of the Power 5: Cincinnati, which didn’t have much to back up that breakthrough football season.

Attendance: The top draw: Michigan in the Big House. Fewest butts in seats: Duke, which last year averaged a sad 15,424 fans per home game.

Viewership: Believe it or not, Oklahoma. The worst?? Oregon State, Rutgers and Duke.
Which is hilarious and why future expansions are not necessarily going to be about markets because here is what they said: "Citing media markets can be misleading; Rutgers being in the New York market doesn’t mean the Scarlet Knights are delivering an audience."

The top overall school is not surprising. Ohio State, closely followed by....Michigan (check the ratings and attendance and academics and all sports).

Including future members, the Big Ten and SEC claim 13 of the top 14 spots.

The average school ranking for each Power 5 conference, using future membership: SEC 25.1, Big Ten 25.8, ACC 39.6, Pac-12 41.4, Big 12 49.3.

Where does Pitt rank? Well according to this? 47. We were 33rd in football. But you would think this is a bullet moving up. We were 24th in academics which is solid. What kills us, 62nd in All Sports. Though this seems to be on the upswing. We were 52nd in Attendance (not good) and 36th in viewership (right in the middle). In what planet I don't know how Miami is ranked 24th in attendance.. WVU was ranked 28th in viewership, but I am taking this as they were bolsted by playing #1 OU and #7 Texas every year and overall probably where we are.

Anyways, here is the article.

www.si.com

Ranking all 69 Power 5 schools by college sports value - Sports Illustrated

If the college sports started over, who would be most coveted? We break it down with a formula.
www.si.com
 

Joe the Panther Fan

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In what planet I don't know how Miami is ranked 24th in attendance


Because attendance numbers are not monitored by anyone but the schools, so there are some schools (as we well know) who are prone to just make stuff up.

It's just like how certain schools do things to make their US News rankings get better. They aren't actually getting better as a school, they are just manipulating the numbers to make themselves look better.
 
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2021 Fans

Miami - 43,698 (24th)

Pitt - 45,365 (36th)
Miami lies better than we lie about our attendance, I suppose. They don’t get nearly close to as much attendance as even we get, to be even close.

And one would think an expert sports magazine would realize that so many schools lie about this, and not trust that.
 

pittmeister

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I've been saying that Pitt will land in a good spot. If the issue is viewership, then here is what I see:

1. Pitt has a higher viewership than 7 out of the 12 teams in the Big-12 (BYU, Cincinnati, Texas Tech, UCF, Houston, Kansas St & K-State) In addition, Baylor is tied with Pitt and Iowa St is one place higher at 35. Yet we hear about nobody watches Pitt. They are better than most teams in the Big 12.

2. Pitt has a higher viewership than than 5 of the Big Ten teams (Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois and Minnesota) and tied with another (Indiana). Obviously, the addition of Rutgers and Maryland didn't help the Big Ten one iota....

3. Pitt has the 4th highest viewership in the ACC. Only Clemson, Miami & FSU has higher viewership.

And if viewership is the issue, then the Big 12 is in big trouble except for OKST and WVU. They will be fine as well.

In my opinion, there will be three Power conferences of 20 teams when it's all over and Pitt will be included.
 
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HailToPitt725

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I've been saying that Pitt will land in a good spot. If the issue is viewership, then here is what I see:

1. Pitt has a higher viewership than 7 out of the 12 teams (BYU, Cincinnati, Texas Tech, UCF, Houston, Kansas St & K-State) In addition, Baylor is tied with Pitt and Iowa St is one place higher at 35. Yet we hear about nobody watches Pitt. They are better than most teams in the Big 12.

2. Pitt has a higher viewership than than 5 of the Big Ten teams (Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois and Minnesota) and tied with another (Indiana). Obviously, the addition of Rutgers and Maryland didn't help the Big Ten one iota....

3. Pitt has the 4th highest viewership in the ACC. Only Clemson, Miami & FSU has higher viewership.

And if viewership is the issue, then the Big 12 is in big trouble accept for OKST and WVU. They will be fine as well.

In my opinion, there will be three Power conferences of 20 teams when it's all over and Pitt will be included.
The number of games on the ACC Network, when a few notable cable companies were not carrying it, likely affected the numbers as well.
 

TempleBAPittMPA

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So the premise on which Rutgers was bum-rushed into the B1G has been objectively demonstrated to be a fallacy.
 
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TheSpecialSauce

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Miami lies better than we lie about our attendance, I suppose. They don’t get nearly close to as much attendance as even we get, to be even close.

And one would think an expert sports magazine would realize that so many schools lie about this, and not trust that.
I attended the Pitt at Miami game in 2016 and they listed the attendance as 51,796. There is absolutely no way that is accurate.
 
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RaleighPittFan

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I was waiting for this. I posted on the pay site for us Members Only. But...

They used a method that includes these 5 categories
1. Football (for better or worse, Sagarin ratings over the last 5 years)
2. Academics (US News and World Report)
3. All Sports Ranking (Sears Cup)
4. Attendance
5. Viewership (Games over 1 million viewers)

Okay, the site is not behind a paywall unless you go to SI.com on a daily basis because I think you are allowed a few free articles a month. Anyways some excerpts:

Football: "The top school: Alabama, to the surprise of no one. The worst: Kansas, also the surprise of no one."

Academics: LOLOLOL......"The top academic school among the Power 5: Stanford. The school at the bottom: West Virginia."

All Sports: The top overall athletic program: Texas, for the second straight year. The laggard of the Power 5: Cincinnati, which didn’t have much to back up that breakthrough football season.

Attendance: The top draw: Michigan in the Big House. Fewest butts in seats: Duke, which last year averaged a sad 15,424 fans per home game.

Viewership: Believe it or not, Oklahoma. The worst?? Oregon State, Rutgers and Duke.
Which is hilarious and why future expansions are not necessarily going to be about markets because here is what they said: "Citing media markets can be misleading; Rutgers being in the New York market doesn’t mean the Scarlet Knights are delivering an audience."

The top overall school is not surprising. Ohio State, closely followed by....Michigan (check the ratings and attendance and academics and all sports).

Including future members, the Big Ten and SEC claim 13 of the top 14 spots.

The average school ranking for each Power 5 conference, using future membership: SEC 25.1, Big Ten 25.8, ACC 39.6, Pac-12 41.4, Big 12 49.3.

Where does Pitt rank? Well according to this? 47. We were 33rd in football. But you would think this is a bullet moving up. We were 24th in academics which is solid. What kills us, 62nd in All Sports. Though this seems to be on the upswing. We were 52nd in Attendance (not good) and 36th in viewership (right in the middle). In what planet I don't know how Miami is ranked 24th in attendance.. WVU was ranked 28th in viewership, but I am taking this as they were bolsted by playing #1 OU and #7 Texas every year and overall probably where we are.

Anyways, here is the article.

www.si.com

Ranking all 69 Power 5 schools by college sports value - Sports Illustrated

If the college sports started over, who would be most coveted? We break it down with a formula.
www.si.com
9dfdc6f68068971e2270acef708eb853.jpg
 

Sean Miller Fan

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SportsIllustrated ranked every Power 5 school’s desirability to other power conferences (e.g. B1G, SEC). The metrics included academics, attendance, football and all-sport rankings, and television ratings.

Link

Pitt was ranked 47th out of 69 schools. For reference, the WSJ ranked us 58th in a similar ranking in 2019.
All irrelevant now. Kids will go to whoever pays the most.
 
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Being #46 wouldn't be bad if they were expanding to 48 and actually took this into consideration. But when you take into account the fact that six teams below us are already in the big two, it almost makes us 52nd.

It's whatever, I guess. Hopefully we get a few more years out of the current model. Then if we latch on with an afterthought conference and have enough peer programs to play (WVU, Boston College, Syracuse, Louisville, whomever else), I'll still watch. But I will say that I was more enthusiastic about that scenario a few weeks ago than I am now, after mulling it over a bit more. The money would go down to a point where production value, coaching hires, etc. really suffered. We'd still be okay relative to the competition, but the product would be much less than what it is now (in addition to the obvious landing less talented players). Which, if you watched Pitt vs Syracuse and/or Duke on the ACC Network, is kind of difficult to imagine.
 
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This is why I said in some other posts the past week that the "Rutgers Theory" about market size has been greatly disproven.
BIG was thinking NY market. I recall an article shortly after they were invited to the conference. It said something to the effect, by asking, does the Big 10 realize if on the same night Rutgers is playing Indiana, and Alabama is playing LSU, how much of the NY audience will be salivating in front of their TV's as they watch Rutgers.? Maybe 2%. I think local TV markets are somewhat overrated as Cable caters to a national market.
 

pittmeister

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No disrespect to any Big-12 fans, but I’m baffled by some of these “analysts” that believe that the ACC & PAC 12 will die and the Big-12 will not only survive, but add teams.

Now that could very well happen, but I find that bizarre after viewing this list. Why would any team join the Big-12 at this point? Their two best teams just left (Texas & Ok). Are they going to get a better TV deal???? The PAC-12 even without USC & UCLA have better overall viewership. If anything, The PAC-12 could invite teams like OkSt.

I can see some sort of merger in the future between the Big-12 and ACC if Clemson, FSU and Miami leave for the SEC down the road. ACC could add OkSt and WVU along with Baylor & TCU. But the Big-12 staying in tack and adding teams doesn’t make any sense.? But who the hell knows????

As I said, based on viewership, both OkSt and WVU should be fine. All the other teams are weak in the viewership category in the Big-12.
 

pittdan77

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No disrespect to any (WVU) fans, but I’m baffled by some of these “analysts” that believe that the ACC & PAC 12 will die and the Big-12 will not only survive, but add teams.
Fixed it for you.

The Dude and his minions are claiming the Big12 will be at $70 million per school. I follow him on Twitter so i know exactly what will not happen.
 
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pittdan77

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The number of games on the ACC Network, when a few notable cable companies were not carrying it, likely affected the numbers as well.
I've been saying this for a while. The ACC's viewership numbers are lagging because the conference network hasn't hit its peak, yet. Comcast hasn't carried it for a full cycle so the numbers and the money are still growing.
 
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pittmeister

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Fixed it for you.

The Dude and his minions are claiming the Big12 will be at $70 million per school. I follow him on Twitter so i know exactly what will not happen.
LOL! Thank you for correcting.

The Dud was throwing out big numbers during the last realignment and it never happened. Based on viewership, if you were a network, would you shell out 70 million to a school that nobody watches???? What an idiot…

As you said, the ACC Network hasn’t even peaked yet. The money should get bigger…
 
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cashisking884

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No disrespect to any Big-12 fans, but I’m baffled by some of these “analysts” that believe that the ACC & PAC 12 will die and the Big-12 will not only survive, but add teams.

Now that could very well happen, but I find that bizarre after viewing this list. Why would any team join the Big-12 at this point? Their two best teams just left (Texas & Ok). Are they going to get a better TV deal???? The PAC-12 even without USC & UCLA have better overall viewership. If anything, The PAC-12 could invite teams like OkSt.

I can see some sort of merger in the future between the Big-12 and ACC if Clemson, FSU and Miami leave for the SEC down the road. ACC could add OkSt and WVU along with Baylor & TCU. But the Big-12 staying in tack and adding teams doesn’t make any sense.? But who the hell knows????

As I said, based on viewership, both OkSt and WVU should be fine. All the other teams are weak in the viewership category in the Big-12.

The Big 12 is probably best suited to survive as a non-super conference of the three conferences. But that’s not much of a consolation prize.
 
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No disrespect to any Big-12 fans, but I’m baffled by some of these “analysts” that believe that the ACC & PAC 12 will die and the Big-12 will not only survive, but add teams.

Now that could very well happen, but I find that bizarre after viewing this list. Why would any team join the Big-12 at this point? Their two best teams just left (Texas & Ok). Are they going to get a better TV deal???? The PAC-12 even without USC & UCLA have better overall viewership. If anything, The PAC-12 could invite teams like OkSt.

I can see some sort of merger in the future between the Big-12 and ACC if Clemson, FSU and Miami leave for the SEC down the road. ACC could add OkSt and WVU along with Baylor & TCU. But the Big-12 staying in tack and adding teams doesn’t make any sense.? But who the hell knows????

As I said, based on viewership, both OkSt and WVU should be fine. All the other teams are weak in the viewership category in the Big-12.

I think the assumption is a mixture of geography (they're sort of in the middle of the ACC and PAC and could theoretically pick off either) and timing (they've stabilized, even though their conference is currently pretty week, whereas the ACC and PAC have programs that other conferences may actually want and thus they may have unstable days ahead).
 
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HailToPitt725

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I think the assumption is a mixture of geography (they're sort of in the middle of the ACC and PAC and could theoretically pick off either) and timing (they've stabilized, even though their conference is currently pretty week, whereas the ACC and PAC have programs that other conferences may actually want and thus they may have unstable days ahead).
This is how I see. I think the Big 12 already survived their apocalypse and will stabilize as the “middle class” conference moving forward. I think what also gives them an advantage is that, if the rumors are true, their new commissioner is more aggressive than any other P5 commish.
 
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This is how I see. I think the Big 12 already survived their apocalypse and will stabilize as the “middle class” conference moving forward. I think what also gives them an advantage is that, if the rumors are true, their new commissioner and is more aggressive than any other P5 commish.

I think a lot of fans might also be getting a tad too prideful and territorial over this theoretical third conference. Like, I wouldn't really care what it was called. I have basically no allegiances to the ACC, and it wouldn't take long to adjust.

Obviously the ideal situation is to continue with the ACC as-is and possibly even add a few teams to it. But if we're going to be relegated to a second-tier conference at some point, you can call it the ACC, the Big 12, the LMNOP, or just about anything else, and I wouldn't care at all.
 
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pittdan77

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The Big 12 is probably best suited to survive as a non-super conference of the three conferences. But that’s not much of a consolation prize.
Someone needs to lay that out for me because I've been hearing how the Big12 was taking down the ACC and picking apart the Pac12 for years and all they've succeeded in doing is raiding Conference USA and the AAC while losing schools to just about everyone else. They couldn't get interest from anyone worthwhile before Texas and OU left (and the ACC schools had an easier path out) but now they're the hot property?
 
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pittmeister

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Someone needs to lay that out for me because I've been hearing how the Big12 was taking down the ACC and picking apart the Pac12 for years and all they've succeeded in doing is raiding Conference USA and the AAC while losing schools to just about everyone else. They couldn't get interest from anyone worthwhile before Texas and OU left (and the ACC schools had an easier path out) but now they're the hot property?
THIS! It’s not logical based on the list….

But again, I’ve been consistent in stating who knows what will happen…But some absolutely know what’s going to happen…🙄
 
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pittdan77

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THIS! It’s not logical based on the list….

But again, I’ve been consistent in stating who knows what will happen…But some absolutely know what’s going to happen…🙄
I'm not debunking the line of thinking out of turn because outside of that quick logic test, I don't know what the people who spend the money are thinking. I just struggle to understand how a conference that is always bleeding membership and is now left with a majority of schools that are add-ons is going to pull schools away from a traditionally stable conference that is anchored in the fastest growing, recruiting talent rich, media heavy, markets in the US.

Asking out loud, if Clemson and FSU leave tomorrow and nobody else gets a call, is it more likely that UNC and Miami want to go to the Big12 or stay put and help the conference pull other schools in?
 

pittmeister

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I'm not debunking the line of thinking out of turn because outside of that quick logic test, I don't know what the people who spend the money are thinking. I just struggle to understand how a conference that is always bleeding membership and is now left with a majority of schools that are add-ons is going to pull schools away from a traditionally stable conference that is anchored in the fastest growing, recruiting talent rich, media heavy, markets in the US.

Asking out loud, if Clemson and FSU leave tomorrow and nobody else gets a call, is it more likely that UNC and Miami want to go to the Big12 or stay put and help the conference pull other schools in?
Asking out loud, if Clemson and FSU leave tomorrow and nobody else gets a call, is it more likely that UNC and Miami want to go to the Big12 or stay put and help the conference pull other schools in?

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head.

In my opinion they would not leave. In fact I could see the ACC immediately invite OkSt and WVU and they would likely accept…
 
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Sean Miller Fan

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Fixed it for you.

The Dude and his minions are claiming the Big12 will be at $70 million per school. I follow him on Twitter so i know exactly what will not happen.
They wont be at 70 million but they will be higher than the ACC. Not because the league is worth more but because of inflation and that the league is going to the open market whereas the ACC never has.

The Pac 12 and ACC should just collude to dissolve the Big 12.

TT, OK St, KSt, Baylor to P12

Kansas, Houston, TCU, Cincy to ACC
 

pittdan77

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They wont be at 70 million but they will be higher than the ACC. Not because the league is worth more but because of inflation and that the league is going to the open market whereas the ACC never has.

The Pac 12 and ACC should just collude to dissolve the Big 12.

TT, OK St, KSt, Baylor to P12

Kansas, Houston, TCU, Cincy to ACC
I don't know what "inflation" means. I've seen you mention that before and it doesn't make any sense. There is only so much network time and so many dollars available for the TV people to spend. Most of it gets thrown at the NFL. But even when Texas and OU were still hanging around, the money for everyone else wasn't likely to go up for everyone because those two were demanding an even bigger cut. That was the whole reason they went through the expansion exercise and nobody of any value came calling. Now they've settled for all of the Plan B's and the per school payout is going to be higher than the ACC?
 
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pittmeister

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They wont be at 70 million but they will be higher than the ACC. Not because the league is worth more but because of inflation and that the league is going to the open market whereas the ACC never has.

The Pac 12 and ACC should just collude to dissolve the Big 12.

TT, OK St, KSt, Baylor to P12

Kansas, Houston, TCU, Cincy to ACC
A merger of sort makes sense, but why would the ACC invite: Kansas, Houston, TCU, & Cincy? All of them are near the bottom of viewership. Why would a network pay big dollars to a school nobody watches? If I’m the ACC, I’m only interested in OkSt, WVU, Baylor and TCU….
 

Dointhatrag

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cashisking884 said:
The Big 12 is probably best suited to survive as a non-super conference of the three conferences. But that’s not much of a consolation prize.

This has as much importance as saying the MAC,WAC and AAC will survive. B12 likely can remain as a conference in name but they will be part of the "have nots"
 
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cashisking884

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cashisking884 said:
The Big 12 is probably best suited to survive as a non-super conference of the three conferences. But that’s not much of a consolation prize.

This has as much importance as saying the MAC,WAC and AAC will survive. B12 likely can remain as a conference in name but they will be part of the "have nots"

which is what I said
 

upj87

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SportsIllustrated ranked every Power 5 school’s desirability to other power conferences (e.g. B1G, SEC). The metrics included academics, attendance, football and all-sport rankings, and television ratings.

Link

Pitt was ranked 47th out of 69 schools. For reference, the WSJ ranked us 58th in a similar ranking in 2019.
desirability to who? did they say?
 
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It would probably if not likely be futile but the Non SEC and Non B1G schools need to team up and begin lobbying Congress people hard and in a loud, public manner. Basically that collusion and monopoly are in the works and that literally thousands of athletes and other students and employees of the Leftover schools are going to be severely harmed by the actions and plans of these two Unrivaled conferences. It stinks that many of those evil empire schools are large State universities so likely ‘own’their respective government officials. But there are still some states with formidable officials …Virginia, North Carolina, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Massachusetts … that have sizable universities Ava as things stand that are going to be left out. Even in states like Texas and Oklahoma and California there are going to be important schools in those states screwed by this. I’m not saying anyone can be forced to take anyone into a conference based on this, but the sin has to be to maintain a NC path kept in place to at least the extent that exists today. Go the smoke filled room route if that can be effective but in this case I tend to think big and loud is the way to go.
 

pittmeister

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Based on what information? This is why I'm asking for an answer. If that scenario isn't plausible, give me the one that gives the Big12 all of the stability.
This is what makes me shake my head with him and a few others. They don’t have a clue of what’s going to happen or what is feasible. But your scenario would never happen…..ok then….

Don’t waste your time. Put him on ignore like I did….
 

pittdan77

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This is what makes me shake my head with him and a few others. They don’t have a clue of what’s going to happen or what is feasible. But your scenario would never happen…..ok then….

Don’t waste your time. Put him on ignore like I did….
I don't ignore anyone. I didn't even ignore that crazy Nit that sort of went away that bragged about dumpster diving and sent multiple threatening DM's.

I really do want an answer.
 

pittmeister

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I don't ignore anyone. I didn't even ignore that crazy Nit that sort of went away that bragged about dumpster diving and sent multiple threatening DM's.

I really do want an answer.
Multi threatening DM’s??? What an idiot….

Anyway, you’ll get an answer, but it will be the worst possible outcome for Pitt & the ACC and it will be passed along as Gospel…. Could his doomsday scenario happen? Sure. But nobody know’s what will happen…
 

Sean Miller Fan

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I don't know what "inflation" means. I've seen you mention that before and it doesn't make any sense. There is only so much network time and so many dollars available for the TV people to spend. Most of it gets thrown at the NFL. But even when Texas and OU were still hanging around, the money for everyone else wasn't likely to go up for everyone because those two were demanding an even bigger cut. That was the whole reason they went through the expansion exercise and nobody of any value came calling. Now they've settled for all of the Plan B's and the per school payout is going to be higher than the ACC?
The cost of everything has gone up significantly since the last times deals were negotiated.
 

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