Still hoping for that point guard

Discussion in 'Basketball Board' started by gary2, May 22, 2020 at 8:12 PM.

  1. gary2

    gary2 Assistant Coach
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  2. TheLogicalTake

    TheLogicalTake Scholarship
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    I can’t see Isaiah taking the kind of role we’re offering. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see him staying at the mid/low major level at a school that will give him starting minutes versus moving back up to a P5 level. The “Jelly Fam” kids largely have really struggled at the collegiate level when they’ve been forced to adjust to a structured system/coaching
     
  3. DC_Area_Panther

    DC_Area_Panther Head Coach
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    Think you are “beating a dead horse” with Capel not looking for a grad transfer PG.

    He seems to have completed his 2021 roster and is only recruiting for the 2021 FR class now.
     
  4. Ski11585

    Ski11585 Athletic Director
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    Again. I would rather play an unproven freshman than a grad transfer whose numbers at a lower level are already pedestrian.
     
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  5. Pitt5593

    Pitt5593 Freshman
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    I think X will be an all conference guard this year. However, he may have to play 35 minutes a game. I think he will be up to it.
     
  6. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    I love the sentiment. But Jelly Fam sucks
     
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  7. Drew1208

    Drew1208 Sophomore
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    I don't think it's in the cards whatsoever.
     
  8. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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  9. gary2

    gary2 Assistant Coach
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    Been that way for the last 8 years

    Before the start of last season did you even hear anything about Femi?

    In the prelude to the early signing period did you even hear of Femi?

    Now he is our third option at guard in the ACC and we are supposed to be satisfied with that?

    We have an open scholarship. It should be used on a grad transfer point. There is absolutely nothing to lose by doing so.
     
    9 gary2, May 22, 2020 at 11:17 PM
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 11:54 PM
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  10. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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    I don’t disagree that we should use it but it’s almost certain we’d get Monty Boykins II. I don’t know why you are so concerned with getting a player with a 3% chance of playing any kind of meaningful role.
     
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  11. gary2

    gary2 Assistant Coach
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    Xaiver Johnson sat some for poor play last season. He sat some with foul trouble. Those things are likely next season.

    Xaiver Johnson doesn't play point guard like A Sean Miller. His style of play invites contact. A Johnson injury is pos.sible next season.

    An extra loss or two can determine post season or not. I would rather skip the or not.

    Ever since Woodall and the CBA season, I see the value of insurance.

    Why would we be limited to a stiff. We have a team that is coming on. Our third guard could see 20 plus minutes. That should be enough to get somebody that can play a bit. Just need a game manager.
     
  12. Ski11585

    Ski11585 Athletic Director
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    We’re limited to stiffs because you keep bringing up stiffs. Unless you think someone who averaged 12 points at a bad school is suddenly going to get better against Duke and Virginia.
     
  13. pittchagg

    pittchagg Freshman
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    We already have a third guard. We’re looking at a guy who would be the fourth guard. That’s 10 minutes max, but probably closer to 8.
     
  14. DC_Area_Panther

    DC_Area_Panther Head Coach
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    IMHO, at this point, I doubt we could attract anyone who would be more than slightly better than Ezeakudo as your "insurance policy."


    Right now point guard depth looks like this--

    (1) Johnson
    (2) Horton
    (3) Odukale
    (4) Ezeakudo

    It seems obvious (to me at least) that Capel will be distributing PT minutes at guard differently than last season. Last season he used 3-guards (1s and 2s) on the floor together quite often. IMHO, this season you won't see that much, if at all.

    Last season the minutes for 1s and 2s looked like this--

    (1) Johnson 33.3
    (2) McGowens 33.8
    (3) Murphy 24.5

    That is 91.6 minutes per game to 1s and 2. That means roughly11.6 minutes (91.6-80) had to come from having all three 1s and 2s (Johnson, McGowens, Murphy) on the floor together.

    IMHO, because we have so many wings 2/3s (or call them 3/2s if you want) on the roster (Champagnie, Drumgoole, Toney, Jeffress) at least those 11.6 minutes (and probably an additional 5-7 minutes) are going to be used to provide additional PT to that traffic jam at the wing. The remainder of Murphy's minutes (his 1, 2 PT) are going to Odukale and some garbage time piece (~1-2 minutes) to Ezeakudo and other walks-ons.

    IMHO, the above is what I believe to be Capel's plan.
     
    14 DC_Area_Panther, May 23, 2020 at 8:03 AM
    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 1:27 PM
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  15. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    I believe Gary’s concern is that we are going into the season with 2/3 of our backcourt being complete unknowns and if one of them gets hurt or sucks we’re kind of shit out of luck.
     
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  16. PittAU

    PittAU Freshman
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    I was critical of Johnson and McGowens last season. I think at times they did not play well.

    But to be fair to them they have been pretty much all there was for offense and I think it began to wear them down. We have had no inside game, for seasons now.

    Last year with Justin we got a glimpse of one. I think with inside guys who are capable of doing anything the results on the perimeter will be much better.
     
  17. PittMBA

    PittMBA Sophomore
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    I’m bullish on next season and am in the I’d hold the scholarship for a 2021 top 100 reclass or late impact grad transfer rather than take a marginal grad transfer PG to play 8 mins a game right now.

    That said - losing McGowens really hurts. I feel like most are just sort of assuming it’s no big deal losing a 2 year starter who at times was a star and played a lot of minutes— and being honest - Trey’s scoring and defense was key in the few ACC games we’ve won the last 2 years.

    We really need X to be a star and Horton to be really steady and really good or the season falls apart quickly. I’m excited for Horton - but you’re still talking about a transfer from Delaware who hasn’t played in a year and has never faced ACC competition.

    Femi may end up being really good - but I’d feel better if he was our 4th guard.

    Hopefully X is all league (not a crazy thought) and Horton is the knock down shooter / scorer we’ve longed for and is steady as a secondary ball handler (not a crazy thought either) — they have to be .

    There seems a lot more flexibility at every other position.
     
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  18. 4upmc

    4upmc Freshman
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    Agree. He’s more worried about promoting his image and his jelly layups than working on his game. Low BB IQ, not good. There’s a reason almost everyone of them transferred...way over hyped and overrated.
     
  19. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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    This is the case with almost every team if one of their main guards gets hurt.
     
  20. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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    Completely agree.
     
  21. gary2

    gary2 Assistant Coach
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    I agree with this too. The roster distribution is different. The "plan" is allocate playing time because of that.

    You know what they say about best laid plans?
     
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  22. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    But most teams have *four* guards on roster. If even Femi gets hurt it puts our other two in a bind with minutes or forces us to play a wing in the backcourt. Remember last season when Murphy was hurt and Drumgoole wasn’t quite right.
     
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  23. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    Losing our best defensive guard and a guy who averaged 11 for a guy who we have no idea if he can defend and will most likely average somewhere between 7-9 is not ideal despite everyone thinking Trey sucked.
     
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  24. Drew1208

    Drew1208 Sophomore
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    It's definitely a solid conversation on this board. And one that would be interesting to hear the thoughts from the coaching staff about.
     
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  25. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    As Mike Tyson said, “Everyone had a plan til they get punched in the mouth.”

    The best way to approach every season is with a plan that’s very adjustable and can adapt to many situations. I think being a guard short and having a walk-on as the 4th guard limits our adaptability.
     
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  26. Tonyt66

    Tonyt66 Freshman
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    I know I really believe we should have four guards if for no other reason last year was a good example why we do need a 4th.
     
    26 Tonyt66, May 23, 2020 at 10:22 AM
    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 10:29 AM
  27. Elsalvador

    Elsalvador All Conference
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    I'm with you @gary2 hahah..I'm all for adding "insurance" in a Grad Transfer PG. A walk-on PG who played a tad last season and Femi who will be a FR. I'm not saying a transfer from Bowling Green let's say, will be the answer at the back-up PG (X and Ithiel).
    I also get the whole, don't just add a player to just add. Could it mess with chemistry? Could it mess with development of Femi who may be in line to play 10 minutes? Maybe.

    I just also hate seeing soon many teams adding Grad Transfers. And yes, I've seen the stats from guys like Rothstein and Goodman that say, for all these double-digit scorers at a lower level, they RARELY reach double-digits at P5. We don't need that, We just need a 7-10 minute guy probably. Do we want X playing 37 minutes a game? Probably not. Rant over lol. Come on Capel, give me that GUARD!!!!
     
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  28. Drew1208

    Drew1208 Sophomore
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    I definitely understand the concerns. I do think they are valid. I just doesn't seem to be on the radar right now, and that could prove to be a mistake but we shall see.
     
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  29. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    Feelings chemistry development all are dumb reasons to not bring a player in.

    I don’t like a lot of what narduzzi does but if he sees a grad transfer that he thinks can compete for a spot and strengthens the position he brings him in. Obviously we have a lot more leeway in football but you get the comparison.

    There’s zero loyalty in cbb and the fact is at least ONE of our players on the current roster will be transferring after next season regardless. Just the odds. Who would’ve thought McGowens would be ouT after 2 seasons? No reason to not grab a player that provides depth, practice help and tell him he’s competing for a spot.
     
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  30. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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    I agree that we should bring a guy and use that last scholarship on a guy who would only be here a year. But I simply cannot imagine its worth anywhere near the fretting @gary2 is putting into it because anyone who would come here is going to be really, really low quality — below the options listed previously in the thread.

    Who of any quality at all is going to join the team that finished last in the ACC to be on the roster just in case X gets hurt.

    Well ... no one.
     
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  31. TheSpecialSauce

    TheSpecialSauce Sophomore
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    Of course we would all want another guard that can give us about 10 quality minutes off the bench, but why would a good player at a mid major want to do that for a team that isn’t going to compete for a title? What’s your sales pitch?
     
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  32. PittMBA

    PittMBA Sophomore
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    Playing Devils advocate- as I generally agree with you -
    The sales pitch is that the roster is built to take a run at the NCAAs and they need one more piece to have their best chance.

    Capel was able to get N’Dir with almost nothing to sell except we desperately need lot of help to avoid going 0-18 again.

    An N’Dir like addition would look good right now.

    My sense is they’re holding for one of the big 2021 reclass possibilities and will wait until those aren’t possible before adding a 1 year transfer. Seems like a reasonable strategy to me.
     
  33. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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    The difference is that Capel was able to sell Sidy a bunch of playing time.
     
  34. BballinsiderfromPitt

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    2/3 of our backcourt have never played an ACC minute... the same as any potential addition.
     
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  35. gary2

    gary2 Assistant Coach
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    I don't understand this argument. Stallings brought in Boykins. Capel is recruiting at a whole new level. The Boykins argument does not apply.

    I think we have the makings of a tournament team next season.That seems attractive.

    The grad transfer would be the third guard. For someone moving up in class, that is not unacceptable.

    The idea we can't get what we need and want seems absurd to me.

    The reason we currently don't have a grad transfer point is not DT'sl reasoning. It is Jeff Capel.. I think in this case, Jeff Capel is wrong.
     
  36. Ski11585

    Ski11585 Athletic Director
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    Do you genuinely think the transfers you’ve been suggesting- a low level guard who can barely score 10 and a guard who can’t shoot - will help the team?
     
  37. DT_PITT

    DT_PITT Lair Hall of Famer
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    Do you guys think that Capel doesn’t even want another player?
     
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  38. Drew1208

    Drew1208 Sophomore
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    I wouldn't want a Ndir. If you can't shoot i wouldn't want you on this squad rn. Id pass on a player like him.
     
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  39. Drew1208

    Drew1208 Sophomore
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    And honestly i take a legit 2 guard who could shoot over any other type if guard. That'd actually give us more flexibility.
     
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  40. gary2

    gary2 Assistant Coach
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    Yes - the guard that can't shoot transferred to Michigan

    This guard averaged 8.5 ppg at Minnesota his first year. At Iona, he was a stat stuffer.
    Four assists per game, outstanding turnovEr ratio, good free throw shooter.
     

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