Strong rumors on twitter....
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Kinda hard to imagine a kid from Central going to school at WVU.........I mean he would literally be taking a step down in education from HS to college which is nearly impossible.
Over on the WVU board, most of those guys think Holgy is done after this year unless they have a really good season. They're dreaming of Jim Tressel. Remember Gordon Gee is their President, so........
If Holgy is done, slimey or not, I'd hope like heck we could get Tony Gibson back but he'd probably either be retained by the new WVU coach or head to Tucson with RichRod again.
On the subject of Central kids making visits, Hamlin visits Urban's "Friday Night Lights" recruiting bonanza on Friday. Hopefully he wants to get on the field early and not risk being buried by Under Armour All-Americans that will continue to be stockpiled up there.
Its not all that hard to imagine when you consider marc bulger went there.
You know... Hamlin and OSU... he will go to Pitt if he is proud of his hometown school and wants to be loyal to his city. I dont mean that as a swipe at all... it just is what it is. Some kids have that loyalty to home, and others want to get out and explore.
I mean, OSU is a great school, but there is no way the path to NFL riches is better than at Pitt. And, the fans and tv and all may be slightly improved... but guess what? The real fan favorites in every other college are the local guys that are playing... it is what it is. Hamlin will be a fan favorite here, just like Whitehead, or he will be just some guy that helps us get 11 wins there, and god forbid if he lets up a big play to make us 10-1 there
I mean, OSU is a great school, but there is no way the path to NFL riches is better than at Pitt. And, the fans and tv and all may be slightly improved... but guess what? The real fan favorites in every other college are the local guys that are playing... it is what it is. Hamlin will be a fan favorite here, just like Whitehead, or he will be just some guy that helps us get 11 wins there, and god forbid if he lets up a big play to make us 10-1 there
It's pretty easy to see the draw of the OSUs and Bamas of the world. I don't think any of the elite kids worry about their ability to get on the field at those places, even if they realistically should worry about it. I also don't think many 18 year old kids are worried about loyalty toward their home cities. That's adult stuff. They want to play for the programs they grow up idolizing. Some may factor the ability of family and friends to attend games more heavily than others. Some want to get out of the big city. Others want to go to school in the city. A kid like Hamlin may be pragmatic and realize that Pat Narduzzi's defense is the most DB-friendly system in the country, one that will give him a clear path to the NFL if he's as talented as he seems. Or he may be more concerned about playing for a maximum exposure, nationally followed program like OSU. Who knows.
The fan favorites at every school are the best and most exciting players on a team, it doesn't matter where they are from.
I'd love to see a study about this, but there are plenty of 4-5 star high school superstars who pick Alabama, tOSU - or other such programs - who will languish on the bench for the next 3-4 years because they're stuck behind another player who had similar credentials. Meanwhile, had they chosen another school, they would've played much sooner and gotten greater personal recognition.
Their solace is that maybe, just maybe, they'll get a national championship ring from the experience. But does that ring really mean that much to the player if they themselves didn't contribute to the team on the field? In my mind, for those players who get very little if any playing time, that ring is kinda like the "participation trophy" (albeit an expensive one) that little kids are awarded in rec leagues.
Sure, some coach will try to make them feel good by saying something like, "Sure, as a member of the scout team, you helped us win...", but really, does that make-up for not seeing significant playing time except (maybe) in a mop-up role after the game has already been decided?
Do you actually believe that? I mean, John Wehner and Neil Walker are/were Pittsburgh fan favorites. Pretty much any local kid that works hard will be a fan favorite over others.
Of course I or anyone can see the draw of OSU or BAMA, and I am not at all saying it is a bad choice. I just said it comes down to that kids loyalty and wanting to stay home. Saying an 18 year old doesnt have loyalty is ridiculous, I mean, many sign up for the miliitary for loyalty reasons. I think the opposite is true, you have more loyalty when youre that age.
that is true.
And again I think playing for Urban Meyer is a special thing, just like Saban at Bama. And playing in front of 100K in an urban city like Columbus is light years better than playing in front of 100K pedofiles and racist for a paper doll coach that has done nothing in slappy valley.
All that being said, the playing and not playing thing could happen at Pitt too... really depends on the kid, but you will definitely get the media, fans, and family push to always get on the field at Pitt that you wont get at tOSU. Look at Dorin Dickerson... if he played for OSU he would have went away after his freshman year. Here everyone was screaming to find him a position, and he tried many... that was due in part to the immense pressure to get him on the field.
And again I think playing for Urban Meyer is a special thing, just like Saban at Bama. And playing in front of 100K in an urban city like Columbus is light years better than playing in front of 100K pedofiles and racist for a paper doll coach that has done nothing in slappy valley.
All that being said, the playing and not playing thing could happen at Pitt too... really depends on the kid, but you will definitely get the media, fans, and family push to always get on the field at Pitt that you wont get at tOSU. Look at Dorin Dickerson... if he played for OSU he would have went away after his freshman year. Here everyone was screaming to find him a position, and he tried many... that was due in part to the immense pressure to get him on the field.
LOL on the "step down" comment. I have to laugh over all the slobbering that went on here about WVU last year. When I mentioned that Holgy was and has been on the hot seat I was shouted down. The reality is Luck mentioned this prior to their 2014-2015 season and it is even more applicable this year with yet another inexplicable collapse.
I'll tell you what, a study on how successful 4/5 star recruits become at blue blood-type programs versus lets say, regional programs would be a heck of a good read. There have been many studies showing the higher the star ranking, the more likely you are to become an All-American, NFL player, etc, but I've never seen a study that looks at which "types" of schools, these 4/5 star players are more likely to earn those honors. Honestly, I believe that 4/5 star players are better off at places like Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, UNC, etc because they are almost guaranteed to get on the field. And once you're on the field, then you can begin to make plays. You cant always get on the field at places like OSU and Bama. Of course, I'm biased.
See, this is the outside-the-box stuff that needs to be done. If I'm the Pitt AD, I have a grad student run that study, write a freelance article and sell it to some national outlet. Then when guys like Hamlin are deciding between Pitt and a blue blood, you show them that, statistically speaking, the path to the NFL is easier from Pitt.
True, but if I remember reading a Walt Harris quote correctly, Johnny Majors and Pitt didn't offer him.
Guess the question is, who else did?
This is not to stir the pot, but we've already seen a micro-version of what you're describing. I'll simply leave you with two names: Tyler Boyd and Robert Foster.
Yea, that's the obvious example. Of course, you could just say, "well Foster was just a bust." Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he will have a spectacular end to his career at Bama and become and NFL Hall of Famer. We dont know but if you had a study done which proves that 4/5 stars do better at "regional schools," that would be pretty powerful I think.
Because here's the thing, Narduzzi tells a kid like Hamlin he's going to play early here. Well, Urban is saying the same thing.
Urban Meyer: "Son, the recruiting boards are saying you're the #1 player in Western PA. If you are as good as you think you are and are willing to put in the work, you can winning a starting position here from Day 1. Here's a list of true freshmen that have played early for me." The Damar Hamlin's and Robert Foster's of the world think they can start anywhere. Well most of them do, I guess and the blue blood coaches prey on those recruits' narcissism. Where a guy like Narduzzi tries to appeal to their pragmatic side. Problem is, big-time recruits are much more likely to be narcissitic and over-confident than pragmatic.
Good points. It would then behoove our staff to have a counter list of those who went to blue bloods instead of Pitt and got buried. Fortunately, there is no shortage of those with names these local guys should recognize. Then, hopefully when the season starts, Duz is using Whitehead creatively to some positive effect, while of course he has oodles he can show of Boyd and Conner making huge splashes as freshmen. Ultimately this is all Pitt has as an ace right now.
Yeah, of course th
Absolutely true.
That is the play early thing, although, sure, it is easier to play early at a school that isnt stacked at your position... isnt the main selling point unless that IS the main desire by that recruit. Pitt, may try that route, but that only works until you are getting good classes for a few years, which I think Pitt will land in time. Then we will need to switch to winning/NFL/HOF and fitting coaching schemes.
I think the playing time AT ALL thing will be the issue. I would think we may lose a player like James Conner today if he knew he was coming to Pitt to play behind a few RB's. I think most just want their shot at seizing the opportunity, and heck, that is what any of us want.
Absolutely true.
That is the play early thing, although, sure, it is easier to play early at a school that isnt stacked at your position... isnt the main selling point unless that IS the main desire by that recruit. Pitt, may try that route, but that only works until you are getting good classes for a few years, which I think Pitt will land in time. Then we will need to switch to winning/NFL/HOF and fitting coaching schemes.
I think the playing time AT ALL thing will be the issue. I would think we may lose a player like James Conner today if he knew he was coming to Pitt to play behind a few RB's. I think most just want their shot at seizing the opportunity, and heck, that is what any of us want.
Addendum: just so there's no misunderstanding, in no way am I saying that Robert Foster is a bust. My point is that Tyler Boyd came to Pitt - a place where he was desperately needed. He took advantage of his opportunity and became an overnight star - and a regular on the ESPN highlights. Foster, on the other hand, went to Alabama, where talent-wise, he was just another banana in the bunch. He may very well have a break-out season this year; but to this point, he's barely a blip on the collegiate football radar screen.
That's a tricky line to walk. It is sleezy too. I mean you are telling a kid, "you ain't that good, you likely will get recruited over" on one hand then "hey, you are the bestest in the north, south east and westest, come play for us! We need you!"
I think you just sell and stress the success of Western PA kids in particular at Pitt, how they have done in the pros, and sell them on this happening at Pitt. I think the message gets across better, including reading between the lines of kids who have thought the grass was greener and well....
If Boyd is a good as most think he is he would have done the same thing at Alabama as at Pitt. It is possible that Foster is just not that good.
yeahhhhhhh.... well maybe he wouldnt have beaten out Amari Cooper?? There is simply no way Boyd would have had the same success at Alabama as here at Pitt (in terms of production)
Well this year we will see because I believe Foster will be the starter. If he isn't then......well you are right. What people don't always understand, that being a 4-5 star coming out of HS and being 4-5 star on the bench after 3 years doesn't always mean it is the same player. It may mean just as you said, "he wasn't that good".
I dont think its that tricky. These guys are supposed to be professional salemen. "Damar, we think you're a great player and are good enough to play early anywhere you go. However, we believe there is no greater opportunity to get on the field early than here in your hometown. The other thing is Coach Meyer is going to bring in 5 star recruits at your position every year, some of them being hometown Ohio boys where there will be more pressure for them to get on the field. Now, that's a challenge you may relish and I believe you are good enough to do whatever you want to do, but here at Pitt, your path to the NFL is much more clear than it is in Columbus. If you want to play on Sundays, this is really a no-brainer. Now, can I put up the Pat signal?"
Foster has two more years of football to play, and as of right now he's slated to be a starting wideout for Bama. So it took him longer to get on the field, but it seems he is about to get his shot.
Secondly, how do you know that Boyd wouldn't have earned a lot of PT early on at Bama? Just because Foster didn't get on the field much his first two years doesn't mean Boyd would have been in the same boat. They are different players. from what I've read, the knock on Foster was that he was struggling with the technique, the playbook, his effort, and executing what the coaches were teaching him in practice. If he did that at Pitt, he'd ride pine here too. Boyd on the other hand took to college football, technique and coaching easily. IMO, Boyd is more of a football player, Foster more of a raw athletic talent.
No question going to a place like Pitt will give you a better chance to get on the field earlier if you're a legit talent and can pick up what you;re being taught quickly. But Alabama and OSU have 44 guys in their 2 deep just like PItt does, and most of the elite prospects that are courted by everybody are pretty confident that they can compete at that level--and so are the coaches that recruit them. For some of them, it doesn't work out. For many, it does, and the rewards are significant.
How do you know that Boyd wouldn't have earned a lot of PT early on at Bama? I don't. My comments are based on the reality of what happened. Anything else is pure speculation.
No question going to a place like Pitt will give you a better chance to get on the field earlier if you're a legit talent and can pick up what you;re being taught quickly. You've identified the essence of my post: at Pitt, if you're good enough, you'll play early. At Alabama, most of their recruits have to wait their turn. And besides, there are enough examples of Pitt players in the NFL who've not only made a roster; they're the best at their positions. The fact that Pitt is a proven pipeline to NFL success should be talked about more - especially by the local media.
So you are saying Narduzzi would say "we won't bring in any more 4-5 star kids at your position, even if we can over the next few years? Again, you sell them on the accomplishments of kids who went to Pitt. You list them. You catalog them and categorize them. I don't think you have to sell the "other" side, because it speaks for itself.
Gee, Pitt got 10 4-5 star commitments from the NFL the past 10 years, and 8 of them went on to the NFL. 10 others went elsewhere. 1 of those made it. (using the internal voice of the recruit, figuring this out on his own).
OR......you can make a video to the sound of the Wreck Of the Edmond Fitzgerald, and scroll the names of guys like Dorian Bell, Andy Sweat, Mark Farris, Toney Bananas Clemons, Darrin Walls, etc......
That isn't necessarily true. I'm not saying Boyd wouldn't have seen the field more. However, coaches tend to be loyal to upperclassman who are starters. Especially if they have been productive as well. Which is the case at Alabama. I think most people expected Foster to make an impact as a returner on special teams. Nobody really expected him to unseat the guys in front of him. Which only strengthens the point being made. It's hard to make an impact from the bench. Receivers are lucky to see a ball 5 times a game. When you are playing on a team with a large number of talented players. Your touches will be limited. Voytik threw the ball almost exclusively to Boyd last year...that wouldn't happen at Alabama.
The path to the nfl has little to do with more playing time at a "smaller" school. Between Combines and University pro days and individual free agent tryouts , each athlete will get more than his fair shot of making an nfl roster and if he had any ability in the first place he at the very least had his share of playing time at the larger "football" school. In fact he may actually receive better coaching due to better assistants at a school with a larger football budget and if he played less plays he may ultimately be healthier.....Hamlin will play on Sundays if he goes to osu, pitt, Oklahoma, penn state, or wherever.....it won't matter.
Lol...he's already in the NFL and hasn't even finished his senior year in High School. He's a great PROSPECT...nothing more. There are pro's and con's to either choice for these kids. Sometimes, it's all about being lucky or unlucky. An injury can happen to you or to the guy in front of you and make or break a career. There is no guarantee for any of these kids regardless of choice. It's my opinion, starting on a P5 team will get you noticed. I'll disagree with the point that playing time doesn't matter. It is an opportunity to be seen. High school kids make tapes and send them out for a reason...so they can be seen.
It's amazing how threads can take on a life of their own. The OP in this thread wasn't even a post and yet, a thread sprung up from it. I don't know if the original poster did this as an experiment but it is proof that people will have a conversation over nothing. Kinda the thought behind the Seinfeld sitcom. Too funny.
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