All the message board pundits would now concur that Pitt lacks the talent to compete against the top teams in the ACC or the country. It use to be that the consensus thought around here was that you can't win without more offensively gifted players and that defense and rebounding alone will not get you to the promised land. Now because their losing games against better teams with a more gifted offensive team that they have no heart and defense wins games. What appears obvious to me is that you need the right mix of offense and defense which they don't have. They lack team quickness especially at guard and muscle/talent at the post , neither of these deficiencies can be corrected this year. I for one don't buy the thought that they have no heart ,their working their tails off its just their now playing more complete and talented teams who just have a way of making other less talented teams look bad. Im not giving up on this years team ,but my expectations have been lowered drastically next years additions will address quickness and hopefully some muscle. There's always next year.
Talent,defense and heart
- Thread starter Fsgolfdr
- Start date
It's pretty obvious to me they are not working their tails off on defense , you can't convince me that all TEN GUYS Jamie plays on defense give it their all on defense but are just bad at it , it's one of two things ... 1. Jamie and his staff have no idea how to coach defense 2. These guys just do not care about defense ... It looks like 2 right now , every game the opposing team literally does whatever they want against us easily and it's embarrassing
I don't see any improvement next year with the lack of front court players to back up Young, Artis and Nix, Luther needs to get physically stronger, Manigualt a frost, Wilson a soph, Kithcart a frost will be the back court, I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any improvement the next 2 years
Oh, if they were only "working their tails off" on defense....
Three out of 4 consecutive possessions, we simply ignored a Clemson player positioning himself 5 feet from the hoop behind our zone defense. There is NOT a coach in the country who teaches THAT. This group of players sometimes can be overwhelming on the offensive end. We had a short spell when we scored 6 or 7 baskets in a row and closed the deficit to where it looked like another cone from behind FSU win. Then the Clemson coach called time out, and his team hit a wide open trey and built the lead quickly back up into the teens.
Offense often only needs one or two players playing well. Defense needs all 5 guys on the court to do a workmanlike job. We don't have 5 guys who can concentrate on defense, make the rotations and move their feet to be in the proper position to prevent opponents from getting wide open, all too often in their favorite spots. Or not for more than a few minutes before lapsing back into bad habits.
We have a team with several guys who are pretty good offensive players, the kind so many of our more vocal critics want Dixon to recruit. Mike Young is VERY close to a first team All-ACC player and Artis could be on one of the all league teans if we finish in the top third of the league. Jeter certainly is a capable ACC-level player and despite his critics here, Robinson would be in the rotation, if not starting for every ACC team. Reserves like Wilson and Slim Johnson show promise.
But, anybody who understands basketball should be able to see now why knowledgeable posters like DT and DC Panther were very concerned about our lousy defensive rating several weeks ago.
We need some guys who can and will focus on defense for more than a few posessions. Someone or SEVERAL someones who will make the effort to get in position and box out opponents to rebound. Much of our success over the years was based on rebounding. Offensively, it gives us second chances and was a huge piece of our high Offensive Efficiency. Defensively, it means a stop and can start the fast break. Reboundng is about 75% effort. Poor rebounding says a lot about our team and it's not flattering.
Somebody in a recruiting post said Manigault's nickname of Windex man wasn't flattering. They could not be more wrong. The team that wins the rebounding battle usually wins the game.
Me neither---the kid is a total non-factor---takes up space, opponents don't even pay attention to him
Their backcourt will have an infusion of talent ,the red shirt ,the jc transfer and Kithcart plus Wilson. The issue will be if someone can run the team ,I know the JRob haters can't wait till he's gone ,but let's not celebrate to soon ,but I'm ready for a change next year.The front court if Nix and Manigualt can play will give their most talented player some space to play. Luther needed to red shirt this year and hit the gym ,he has court sense and can give valuable minutes. Cam Johnson has unlimited upside. Artis needs to find a little more consistency in his game ,but he's talented. The same for Jeter.
Claiming that JD can't teach defense ,have you followed his career at all ? His good teams all thrived on defense and rebounding. Now granted the rules have changed, except for Louisville ,and mugging isn't allowed,but why don't you try and guard a guy whose much quicker than you or much bigger or stronger. Those kids work their butts off the problem is that what you see is what they got.
Claiming that JD can't teach defense ,have you followed his career at all ? His good teams all thrived on defense and rebounding. Now granted the rules have changed, except for Louisville ,and mugging isn't allowed,but why don't you try and guard a guy whose much quicker than you or much bigger or stronger. Those kids work their butts off the problem is that what you see is what they got.
WTF is this guy talking about? Lets name PGs in the ACC better than Robinson:
Paige UNC
Rodriguez Miami
Holmes Clemson
The Louisville PG
XRM FSU
Gbinije Syr
Barber NC St
Carter BC
Allen VT
Jackson ND
Perrantes UVa
He is better than GT's PG, Wilbekin from Wake, and maybe the young Duke PG right now.
To be fair, if he played for BC, he'd start and Carter would slide over.
As I asked Harve just a little bit ago, not understanding why he loves Robinson so much. No way should our senior point guard have a game like he did last night. He has had plenty of those games unfortunately and shows zero leadership. Heck he can't even make open shots most of the time.
Robinson would be great on a great team, but he is mediocre on a mediocre team. This is because he is not a scorer. Why do have to explain this after every loss.
He had a lousy game last night because he committed 4 turnovers. The poor shooting really isn't unexpected.
An odd thing I've noticed about Robinson this year, with regard to shooting, is that he will often continue to shoot the ball after the whistle has blown for an infraction. And about 75% of the time the shot makes (often from beyond the 3-pt arc). It seems that when he isn't "thinking" about the shot it drops. Maybe he should try not to overthink and just shoot. When he does make his shots that count, he has a really nice stroke. It just appears to this fan that he is more concerned with making a "bad shot" or missing it. Not sure if this is he or the system. No one would criticize a PG if he only contributed 4-5 assists per game but scored 25 or more.
I dont think Robinson is bad. He's an average major D1 PG. He wont win games for you and wont lose them. He's simply "there." He provides no advantage or disadvantage. That would be great if he played for Kentucky or the USA U19s or DeMatha. But at Pitt, he has to score or create offense........or be a defensive stopper.
TV Color men always praise him as one of the top PG's in the country. They are generally knowledgeable former players who are paid for their opinion, not message board schlubs like us.
He had one of his worst games last night but still scored 8 pts and had 5 assists with a positive assist to turnover ratio.
There are lots of things you don't understand. One of them is playing PG.
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I said it's not an imposing descriptor mostly because it sounds pretty silly, especially when compared to
"Rock", "Anchor" and "Force". Unless you think "Windex Man" strikes fear into an opponents heart. Had nothing to do with the importance of rebounding.
Is Harve even serious? What's going on? He's using the opinion of TV analysts? Who watches more of Pitt? Us or them? They see a great assist to TO ratio and proclaim he's great. Once in awhile, he plays very well and it justifies how they feel.
Robinson is about the 12th best PG in the ACC. Calling him one of the best in the country should get somebody a bed at WPIC.
Again, I dont think he's bad. He's just an ordinary player.
Sorry. I understand your meaning better now.,
But I might be happier with a double figure rebounder than a double figure scorer.
No problem. I feel the same way.
Kithcart doesn't need a nickname btw. His first name of Justice will do just fine.
I don't care about the infusion of backcourt talent who they don't have the instincts, dedication, and intensity to lock a player up consistently on the defensive end.
You said infusion of talent. I said infusion of guys wanting to and capable of playing D at ACC LEVEL. That's what I care about at this point. We have had talent and we do now that doesn't play D. So pardon me if I reserve my judgement of the infusion of talent making a difference until I see them play ACC defense and rebounding. By the way, it's been a long time since Dixon had a tough defending grind it out team. So I don't trust him either to teach D anymore as is evidenced by even looking at the past few games/seasons.
He has also had, numerous times this season, opposing coaches (including one in just the past few days) praising him and calling him exactly the kind of point guard that a coach loves to have on his team. But random message board posters know more than college basketball coaches too, right?
Our issues are all about heart and toughness IMO. Defense is all about desire and our guys just don't get it. As I have said before, they aren't mature enough to understand that you have to want to play D and give it 100% on that end of the court at all times. There are very few possessions during a game where we give this effort.
It makes me laugh that any of us think we know more than a very successful D1 coach, he's forgotten how to teach defense come on get real . Listen to him , defense and rebounding it's a broken record ,he knows his team better than any of us ,he watches practice and countless hours of film . Guess what ,he knows his teams weaknesses better than anyone. You don't think Mike Tomlin and Bulter didn't know the Steelers dbs were the weak link in pre season. In pro ball you make a mistake you cut him and try to find someone better. Sometimes there's no one out there that's better and you make the best of it. You don't have that luxury in college ball ,instead of a draft you have to beg 15-18 year old to come to your school , you can't cut him and replace him for constantly screwing up and if he's the best you have you play him,. Also playing by the rules makes it way more difficult to attract the best players to a university like Pitt. Of course people out there know that new coaches both HC and assistants are the answer. Getting better recruits is the answer and yes the staff is responsible for this , next years class is the best in years why don't you give them a chance before going all negative.
How do you know next years class is the best in years? How do you know they will play defense and have the great Pitt grit that MADE Dixon's philosophy work?
It doesn't matter what the leader says if their vision if can't be executed or won't by their followers. That's a failure of leadership. So stop exonerating Dixon and place more ownership of the lack execution on the leader.
I've been hearing that for close to 4 years now, next year's class has this guy and that guy and we'll be much better. Yeah, sure we will. In November and December after we beat all the division 2 schools we'll be great again, just like this year, just like last year, etc..
My final post on this:
I have 3 million reasons why we should be a consistent top 20 team competing annually for sweet 16's. And we haven't even finished with either of these in a while.
I have 3 million reasons why we should be a consistent top 20 team competing annually for sweet 16's. And we haven't even finished with either of these in a while.
I agree that this will be my last post on the subject also ,both of you (rp and pp) enjoy the posting of negative views and that's your prerogative . I think considering where the program was two / three years ago they've made a lot of progress. This years team shows with the addition of a couple players and the continued development of others their headed in the right direction. Are they where they need to be no ,but I believe their headed there. Pitt in its entire bb history has never been a consistent top 20/sweet16 program so holding them to that as a standard is wrong. Your 3 million reasons if it's not your 3 million what do you care and his salary is what it took to keep him here because others would scoop him up in a heartbeat. You wanted Pitts last AD to replace him and the new one hasn't made a hire here yet . I'll stick with JD. who runs a clean winning program in the best conferences in the country with no local recruiting base and a fan base that can't fill up the Pete.
Um, the Pete was filled every game when Pitt was winning and at least making sweet 16's. Maybe you should realize the correlation between the team stinking up the place, playing way too many cupcakes year after year and the Pete not bring full anymore. Jamie has done a lot of good for Pitt but it's time for a change. Won't happen I guess because of the buyout but that's what I believe.
Don't want to add to your opinion of my negativity but I will anyways. This team is on the verge of a major collapse once again. I think we will be lucky to win 3 more games the rest of the season. Hope I'm wrong but it's just my hunch.
Well I lied this one might be my last post I think! I've been complaining for years about the OOC schedule and its unfairness to season ticket holders. I think its also counterproductive at times for team development .
An aging fan base also contributes to attendance declines. No matter how you slice it Oakland is a pain in the ass to navigate as is the Pete . Weekday 9pm starts gets old especially in the winter. The ease to get second hand tickets makes owning the entire season unnecessary except for the diehards. I'll agree with you if they won the NCAAs or were a top 10 ten yr after yr the place would be packed ,but neither are probably going to happen.
Not converting local zoo graduates to season ticket holders is a reason to replace the marketing company. See I can complain also ,but I still think the program hit bottom and is on way back up and that's the way I'd prefer to look at it.
An aging fan base also contributes to attendance declines. No matter how you slice it Oakland is a pain in the ass to navigate as is the Pete . Weekday 9pm starts gets old especially in the winter. The ease to get second hand tickets makes owning the entire season unnecessary except for the diehards. I'll agree with you if they won the NCAAs or were a top 10 ten yr after yr the place would be packed ,but neither are probably going to happen.
Not converting local zoo graduates to season ticket holders is a reason to replace the marketing company. See I can complain also ,but I still think the program hit bottom and is on way back up and that's the way I'd prefer to look at it.
Harve,
I am talking about the past 5 seasons. He deserved his money for what he did in his first 10 or so.
His salary is actually half that, annually.
Counting deferred compensation and bonuses into an annual salary is ill-founded.
If you're going to use the $3mil rationale, you should actually understand what you're talking about.
His base salary is around $1.4mil a year, FWIW.
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