Talent

[Chescat]

TALENT....plain and simple, that is why we are where we are at this time.
It's true we haven't looked like much since the GT victory several weeks
ago. In fact we've regressed IMO. There's been all kind of talk on here
about Capel having lost this team, selfish play, a fight among our players,
no depth, etc. etc.
While all of that is probably true, the recently announced ACC all star teams
didn't name a Pitt player anywhere. Sure, Champagnie should have been
at least named to the All Frosh team, but the fact remains...he wasn't.
Some of us have been saying from jump street that the talent level was and
is very low. The wins we did get in conference, and some out of conference
were due to grit, hustle, intensity, coaching etc. It wasn't IMO talent. I believe
that these ACC all star announcement proves the lack of talent that presently
exists with this team.
As far as the grit, hustle and intensity is concerned, it seems to have
disappeared for whatever reason. Keeping those intangibles at a high level for
30 plus games is not an easy task. Sometimes talent alone keeps you above water.
That is not the case with this team because I feel the talent is just not there.
Those ACC all star announcements speak volumes about us.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Knight, Page, Brown, Zavackas, and Lett didn't win any games with talent. Its great to have talent but in college basketball, intangibles are nearly as important. Our current team has none of those intangibles. They are low bball IQ, low character, and Capel hasn't shown any signs to this point of being a "plus" coach.

Besides this, we played 14 conference games vs teams not going to the NCAAT. We won 5 with 2 of those coming against far and away the worst team in the league (UNC without Cole Anthony) and 1 coming at home vs Miami without their 2 best players. That's 3-11 vs non-NCAAT teams besides Cole Anthony-less UNC. That's really really bad.

Pitt had enough "talent" to go 10-10 or 9-11, I'm sorry. The ACC was garbage.

 

[TWPitt]

It really does as literally every other team at least had at least one player as an honorable mention or better for All-Conference honors. As well as Trey/Audiese getting zero votes for the All-Defensive team as well.

I really hope these guys see this as a wake up call that NONE of them are better apart and can achieve success for themselves as an individuals through team success and start working together.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Talent has a lot to do with it. However, so does coaching. We are piss poor at fundamentals (boxing out, etc.), and opposing defenses have no problem locking us down, because there is nothing to our set offense. They smother us... we panic... we pass the ball around to guys who are usually just a desperation outlet more so than guys who are in position to make a play... we either throw up a bad shot as the shot clock expires, we make an errant pass inside, or a guard tries dribbling into the pain and is met by three defenders. This seems to sum up the majority of our possessions.

 

[Goldbergfan]

Knight, Page, Brown, Zavackas, and Lett didn't win any games with talent.

Pitt had enough "talent" to go 10-10 or 9-11, I'm sorry. The ACC was garbage.

Really, yoy have reached your all time low. Guess what your LIES that guys like Knight and Page etc had no talent proved without a doubt that you are 100 per cent a PITT HATIN loser. The only one who has no talent is YOU. If you went to Pitt, which is really doubtful you must have either been kicked out from constant lying or the on;y time you went to Pitt was when your family drove by. Time for you to go to wherever you came. Its certainly not Pitt. Yeah, they had no talent says the pure Pitt hater.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Really, yoy have reached your all time low. Guess what your LIES that guys like Knight and Page etc had no talent proved without a doubt that you are 100 per cent a PITT HATIN loser. The only one who has no talent is YOU. If you went to Pitt, which is really doubtful you must have either been kicked out from constant lying or the on;y time you went to Pitt was when your family drove by. Time for you to go to wherever you came. Its certainly not Pitt. Yeah, they had no talent says the pure Pitt hater.

Did I say they had no talent?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Did I say they had no talent?

You certainly implied that . By the way you can have all the intangibles you want and without talent it does you no good .

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You certainly implied that . By the way you can have all the intangibles you want and without talent it does you no good .

Talent is most important and the Knight teams were talented but that's not why they won. They had Bubble talent. They were FF contendors becauase of intangibles and coaching.

 

[JS School]

You certainly implied that . .

I sense a "lack of reading comprehension" defense is coming.

 

[thebadby2]

Knight, Page, Brown, Zavackas, and Lett didn't win any games with talent. Its great to have talent but in college basketball, intangibles are nearly as important. Our current team has none of those intangibles. They are low bball IQ, low character, and Capel hasn't shown any signs to this point of being a "plus" coach.

Besides this, we played 14 conference games vs teams not going to the NCAAT. We won 5 with 2 of those coming against far and away the worst team in the league (UNC without Cole Anthony) and 1 coming at home vs Miami without their 2 best players. That's 3-11 vs non-NCAAT teams besides Cole Anthony-less UNC. That's really really bad.

Pitt had enough "talent" to go 10-10 or 9-11, I'm sorry. The ACC was garbage.

Knight, Page, Brown, Zavackas, and Lett didn't win any games with talent.

That's not true. That team had balanced talent--no superstars but no weak links. And you're forgetting about Krauser, Troutman and Jaron Brown, who were on those teams as well. That was a really solid group of players who were very well coached.

 

[below0w]

Knight, Page, Brown, Zavackas, and Lett didn't win any games with talent.

Hahahaha, oh my.

Julius Page, who could jump out of the building, didn't win any games with talent. Donatas Zavackas, who was a career 41% 3 point shooter, didn't win any games with talent. Jaron Brown, who was 6'4 with the offensive rebounding prowess of a 7 footer, didn't win any games with talent. Brandin Knight, with his offensive vision and propensity for steals, didn't win any games with talent. It was all hustle, 100%, they were never more talented than their opponents. Not once.

You're getting dumber.

 

[TWPitt]

Hahahaha, oh my.

Julius Page, who could jump out of the building, didn't win any games with talent. Donatas Zavackas, who was a career 41% 3 point shooter, didn't win any games with talent. Jaron Brown, who was 6'4 with the offensive rebounding prowess of a 7 footer, didn't win any games with talent. Brandin Knight, with his offensive vision and propensity for steals, didn't win any games with talent. It was all hustle, 100%, they were never more talented than their opponents. Not once.

You're getting dumber.

Let ignore be your friend.

 

[Sheriffjim]

Knight, Page, Brown, Zavackas, and Lett didn't win any games with talent. Its great to have talent but in college basketball, intangibles are nearly as important. Our current team has none of those intangibles. They are low bball IQ, low character, and Capel hasn't shown any signs to this point of being a "plus" coach.

Besides this, we played 14 conference games vs teams not going to the NCAAT. We won 5 with 2 of those coming against far and away the worst team in the league (UNC without Cole Anthony) and 1 coming at home vs Miami without their 2 best players. That's 3-11 vs non-NCAAT teams besides Cole Anthony-less UNC. That's really really bad.

Pitt had enough "talent" to go 10-10 or 9-11, I'm sorry. The ACC was garbage.

If Pitt had no talent like you say then you should actually be arguing the opposite asshap, and giving Capel and the team credit since they were able to achieve it against superior rosters, even in a down ACC.

 

[Chescat]

alent is most important and the Knight teams were talented but that's not why they won. They had Bubble talent. They were FF contendors becauase of intangibles and coaching.

I really wonder about you sometimes. You just contradicted yourself as you
often do. Your initial response stated Knight, Page, Brown, Zavakas didn't
win any games with talent. This post says they had bubble talent.

Now if you compare our present team to the team you said had "bubble
talent," even you should see the diffference. Our present team has
nowhere near "bubble talent." Intangibles are important, we agree on
that, in fact I mentioned intangibles in the initial post. I also pointed
out that over a 30 plus season it's tough to keep the intangibles
going when injuries and losing come into play. Anyone whoever played
or coached this game knows that.

 

[TheChair]

Hahahaha, oh my.

Julius Page, who could jump out of the building, didn't win any games with talent. Donatas Zavackas, who was a career 41% 3 point shooter, didn't win any games with talent. Jaron Brown, who was 6'4 with the offensive rebounding prowess of a 7 footer, didn't win any games with talent. Brandin Knight, with his offensive vision and propensity for steals, didn't win any games with talent. It was all hustle, 100%, they were never more talented than their opponents. Not once.

You're getting dumber.

I agree that they had talent. They did not have NBA talent. But, they had a depth of very solid college basketball players. Other than UConn and Cuse, they likely were more talented overall on the floor than the other BE teams that they played back then during that era. Knight, Krauser, Page, Brown, Zavackas, Lett, Troutman, etc. were very good players. I believe that 5 of them (Knight, Krauser, Page, Brown and Troutman) were All-Big East players at one point in their respective careers.

 

[Pittisit4me]

I really wonder about you sometimes. You just contradicted yourself as you
often do. Your initial response stated Knight, Page, Brown, Zavakas didn't
win any games with talent. This post says they had bubble talent.

Now if you compare our present team to the team you said had "bubble
talent," even you should see the diffference. Our present team has
nowhere near "bubble talent." Intangibles are important, we agree on
that, in fact I mentioned intangibles in the initial post. I also pointed
out that over a 30 plus season it's tough to keep the intangibles
going when injuries and losing come into play. Anyone whoever played
or coached this game knows that.

Agree mostly. Badby mentioned in a post above that that team had no weak links. He was correct. If you look at our current team, I am not sure it is fair to characterize them as "not talented". We have too many weak links to judge their overall talent. We do know that they are poor shooters and struggle against zone and struggle to rebound.

However, lets remember that we really get very little from the 5. We also don't have a true point guard. I would argue that a few of these guys have real talent but are rendered average to below average players because of the weaknesses that Capel has yet to address.

If Hugley and Horton can come in and provide offense from the inside and the outside respectively, you might come away with a different talent evaluation on Toney, Penny, McGowens, and XJ. I think they are far from non-talented. They have strengths and weaknesses like most. With our current team deficiencies, their weaknesses are amplified.

 

[Chescat]

Agree mostly. Badby mentioned in a post above that that team had no weak links. He was correct. If you look at our current team, I am not sure it is fair to characterize them as "not talented". We have too many weak links to judge their overall talent. We do know that they are poor shooters and struggle against zone and struggle to rebound.

However, lets remember that we really get very little from the 5. We also don't have a true point guard. I would argue that a few of these guys have real talent but are rendered average to below average players because of the weaknesses that Capel has yet to address.

If Hugley and Horton can come in and provide offense from the inside and the outside respectively, you might come away with a different talent evaluation on Toney, Penny, McGowens, and XJ. I think they are far from non-talented. They have strengths and weaknesses like most. With our current team deficiencies, their weaknesses are amplified.

I basically agree with your post. Nowhere did I suggest that we didn't
have any talent. We do, but I feel it's a matter of degree. These guys are
Div 1 players and therefore talented. Put them in a conference with
St. Francis, Niagara, Canisius, etc. and they'd win consistently.

The ACC, even in a down year is a completely different animal. The
talent defficiency is notable by comparison. Hell, Wake Forrest even
defeated Duke last week.
Surround X with some different players and I believe his talent would
show more than it does now. The problem is we have to evaluate it
by who and what we are now, THUS..... not even a whiff at all ACC
mention this year. BTW, Champagnie, talented as I believe he is,
was not given a mention on the all frosh team. He's talented, but like I
said, it's a matter of degree.