pittdan77
Athletic Director
You're not wrong but Pitt would lose it's southern pipeline (ask WVU how that works). You'd be lucky to get IU, Rutgers, and MD most years.
Texas Oklahoma reach out to SEC
- Thread starter ratking17
- Start date
It goes back even further than that. ND was blackballed by the Big 10 in the early stages of college football.
OU and Texas is not anything close to anything that has come before it. They will change the landscape of college football. Everything will go nuclear with this.
Maybe ND is still immune. But you can’t just say, “same thing as always, why would anything change?” Well, because OU and Texas change everything.
The thing about Texas and OU joining the SEC is it’s going to cause all conferences to expand. And with that expansion is going to come a more heavily loaded conference based schedule. You’re not going to have 16 teams and play an 8 game conference schedule. The SEC was already talking about expanding the number of conference games played, and that was before this.
The issue you could have if you’re ND is, once the conferences expand and conference games make up the schedule, who is going to schedule you as an OOC game?
If this UT and OU move really puts us on the path to super-conferences, then you need to be in one of those conferences. I’m not sure even ND can afford to be left out.
The issue you could have if you’re ND is, once the conferences expand and conference games make up the schedule, who is going to schedule you as an OOC game?
If this UT and OU move really puts us on the path to super-conferences, then you need to be in one of those conferences. I’m not sure even ND can afford to be left out.
Correct. The anti-catholic sentiment across the original Big Ten was the impetus. And, Michigan throwing a fit in the late 30s/early 40s I think when certain Big Ten schools wanted to add Pitt, and they invited Michigan State instead (to replace the university of Chicago).
edit: Michigan wanted Pitt. Ohio State didn’t
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I’m not so sure about that. I think no matter what, the Big XII would absorb much of the AAC/MWC since those schools would likely bring in more revenue making such a move due to the Big XII’s existing TV contract. IMO, it’s similar to why the “Big East” backfilled with C-USA schools and not the other way around.
I'd suggest that bringing in those schools would require the XII to offer them a lot less than the remaining schools would get, for a long time.
I still think we're headed to 5 conferences, all with 16 members.
Yeah, but what does that have to do with college football in 2021?
If ND thinks it’s better for ND to join the B10 in 2021 they will. And if the B10 things it better for the B10 in 2021 to invite ND they will.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I still think it's a bluff to tip the revenue balance in the Big12 even more than it is. Betting the new TV deal negotiations aren't going well so they're trying to leverage blowing everything up to get more of the pie. Just my two cents but I don't see this happening.
I have not read every page concerning this topic., so forgive me if I rehash someone else’s thoughts: Here is what I think…
1. If they (TX OU) get accepted to the SEC, college football as you know it will never be the same.
2. That being said, if Texas and Oklahoma are serious about leaving the Big 12, the ACC should inquire about their interest in joining the conference. They along with ND could be a legit rival to the SEC.
3. The SEC has nothing to gain by adding either school, especially Texas. Texas A&M more than makes up for not having Texas. Would Texas A&M throw a hissy fit if Texas were invited? You bet they would! Right now, they have the upper hand in Texas. They ain’t gonna give that up. I don’t think SEC will take just Oklahoma. It would have to be a package deal or nothing.
4. If the SEC decides to accept Texas & OU, the ACC needs to be aggressive and add schools that would be a benefit to the ACC. ND is the only school that fits that criterion. Adding schools just to add schools is counterproductive. Iowa State, WVU, TCU and other schools of this ilk will only bring their open palms wanting someone to put some money in it… What will they give in return? TV ratings? History? Endowment money? Will the old fossils on the Board of Trustees accept schools considered academically inferior? They bring zero…
1. If they (TX OU) get accepted to the SEC, college football as you know it will never be the same.
2. That being said, if Texas and Oklahoma are serious about leaving the Big 12, the ACC should inquire about their interest in joining the conference. They along with ND could be a legit rival to the SEC.
3. The SEC has nothing to gain by adding either school, especially Texas. Texas A&M more than makes up for not having Texas. Would Texas A&M throw a hissy fit if Texas were invited? You bet they would! Right now, they have the upper hand in Texas. They ain’t gonna give that up. I don’t think SEC will take just Oklahoma. It would have to be a package deal or nothing.
4. If the SEC decides to accept Texas & OU, the ACC needs to be aggressive and add schools that would be a benefit to the ACC. ND is the only school that fits that criterion. Adding schools just to add schools is counterproductive. Iowa State, WVU, TCU and other schools of this ilk will only bring their open palms wanting someone to put some money in it… What will they give in return? TV ratings? History? Endowment money? Will the old fossils on the Board of Trustees accept schools considered academically inferior? They bring zero…
At the time, Michigan State had just changed its name from Michigan A & M. Not exactly the image the Wolverines wanted to be associated with.
1. Agree with
2) I'm sure the ACC has reached out and inquired. However they can't offere what the SEC can. We don't have the leverage.
3) They have $$$$ to gain. Maybe not during this TV contract, but in the future ones.
4) It takes two to tango. The TV partner in ESPN will determine if adding any of the schools left over adds value. If it does, the ACC will move. If not, they will stay put. Phillips has openly stated that the ACC has not been bashful with their wish that ND would join.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I don't know that Texas could do better than their current arrangement even with SEC money. That's what makes this weird. I'm sure they'd listen to the ACC if the conference didn't object to unbalancing the TV revenue.
I think conference format is on borrowed time. The days of TOSU, Clemson and USC earning equal amounts to Wake, Purdue and Washington St are numbered. There’s just too much money involved. And those 3 brands can essentially do whatever they want....
This is a very reasonable first step. Don’t be surprised if you begin to hear rumblings that TOSU isn’t happy with B1G. These elite football brands have no reason to share equally.
This is a very reasonable first step. Don’t be surprised if you begin to hear rumblings that TOSU isn’t happy with B1G. These elite football brands have no reason to share equally.
Teams they make the playoffs should keep their bowl revenue. It makes no sense that Clemson makes the playoffs every year and other schools get the cut.
I think sec and big 12 do give a bonus to the participating teams.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Conferences exist for more than football. Even more than all of the other sports.
There's also a reason why schools moved away from being independents. It's much easier to negotiate TV with a bunch of other schools to guarantee something worth watching every week.
Bowl teams get more for their travel and making the playoffs. Clemson made like $38M in ACC distributions this past year. The average distribution was like $33M.
My apologies. Conference format FOR FOOTBALL ONLY. I erroneously believed that to be understood. All other sports will definitely have conferences.
This is for football only. All other conferences will remain in tact for other sport purposes.
64 + 1 Power Five Schools.
Whittle that down to the top 32 brands for football. Divide them into geographic grouplet’s of 4 within each each of the 8 divisions. The remaining 32 can do the same. It is not easy to create those grouplets. Maybe 32 is too many. Maybe 6 Divisions of 4 is easier to separate the real brands/elite from non-elite for a total of 24 real national brands. 15 year ago I think Clemson would struggle to get into even the group of 32 in the aforementioned concept.
I’ve tried to put together these and it’s difficult to do.
64 + 1 Power Five Schools.
Whittle that down to the top 32 brands for football. Divide them into geographic grouplet’s of 4 within each each of the 8 divisions. The remaining 32 can do the same. It is not easy to create those grouplets. Maybe 32 is too many. Maybe 6 Divisions of 4 is easier to separate the real brands/elite from non-elite for a total of 24 real national brands. 15 year ago I think Clemson would struggle to get into even the group of 32 in the aforementioned concept.
I’ve tried to put together these and it’s difficult to do.
I don't think that's going to happen, the elite schools don't want to play fellow elite schools week in and week out, they'll be willing to play 5 or 6 tough games due to the money it brings in, but 8 or 9 is too many.
If I was a school outside of that group, I'd essentially tell them to f off with their other sports.
You'd also have essentially all the games going up against each other on Saturdays as there is really only 3 time slots.
Plus college athletics has never been good at having nice clean organization and walking hand in hand with each other.
I don't know, maybe I'll be wrong. I've been wrong PLENTY. If anything, I can see the SEC and BIG getting bloated with some of the larger brands, the Pac 12 holding off the west coast, and a semi decent "left over" group if it would ever get to that point.
You'd also have essentially all the games going up against each other on Saturdays as there is really only 3 time slots.
Plus college athletics has never been good at having nice clean organization and walking hand in hand with each other.
I don't know, maybe I'll be wrong. I've been wrong PLENTY. If anything, I can see the SEC and BIG getting bloated with some of the larger brands, the Pac 12 holding off the west coast, and a semi decent "left over" group if it would ever get to that point.
So you think you'd need an even 16? If there aren't division, you could hold at 15. Is WVU the best program that would be available? ACC has a lot more pull with ND in tow.
We were apparently blocked by Ohio State at the end of the 40s. Pitt was a defacto member of the B10 in the 40s. Played a full B10 schedule almost, ahered to their purity rules (which no other B10 programs did), but didn't get the nod when it counted.
The only thing saving the Pac is its geographical isolation. You had some of the schools threatening to walk a year ago. Their contract is up soon. Their TV network is a disaster. Is that geography going to keep being enough?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
In 1980, the following P5/major schools were independents.
BC, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, ND, PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, WVU
Today it's only ND because alone, none of the other schools could pull off being an independent. Do you think Texas would consider another conference other than it's own because being an independent is better?
…and Bill Walton proclaiming “Conference of Champions” on the telecasts. 🤣
I could see LSU, Arkansas, and either Mississippi or Mississippi State saying no.
I have a hard time seeing Bama, Auburn, Georgia, and Florida being on board as well.
UVa and UNC love the ACC. UMD fans hate the big ten and miss their ACC rivalries.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
By the way, it looks like this move is in reaction to the conference asking members to extend the GOR for another five years. There is a meeting of AD's and CEO's at 5 today to discuss the latest.
Even if every SEC member didn’t want to invite these two schools, they’d still do it.
They have no interest in seeing them go to the B1G.
I would guess UT hasn’t ruled out the independent route. Like Wetzel said on the pod, they are truly a national institution of higher learning and prefer to draw students from both coasts. They are as close to ND as it gets....and it is an absolute no-brainer for ND to always be independent (as long as they have CFB access, which they will always have).
Having best friends attend ND, they pride themselves more on history and its national brand and pan-US rivalries.
They have no interest in seeing them go to the B1G.
I would guess UT hasn’t ruled out the independent route. Like Wetzel said on the pod, they are truly a national institution of higher learning and prefer to draw students from both coasts. They are as close to ND as it gets....and it is an absolute no-brainer for ND to always be independent (as long as they have CFB access, which they will always have).
Having best friends attend ND, they pride themselves more on history and its national brand and pan-US rivalries.
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They should have just made it: THE Michigan A&M. Problem solved.
The reason a 32 team conference will not happen is because a few good programs will have to lose a lot games each year and with no draft like the NFL the path out of basement would be really tough.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Does Texas have several large, eastern TV markets with a lot of fans? That's why ND can stay independent and get the TV contract.
