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The absolute stupidity of ranking 0-0 teams

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
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If you know me, you know how absolute stupidity in any form makes my blood boil. I mean I cannot fathom how ANYONE can rank a team 4 weeks into the season who has yet to play a game and may never play a game. The 1 thing you can say about the CFP is they do correctly rank "resumes" and not "teams" and that is the correct way to rank once you are a few weeks into the season. Like if the season were to end today, Pitt at 3-0 has the better resume than 0-0 PSU and OSU. Are PSU and OSU better? Maybe but they haven't played so their resume sucks. For this reason, when the CFP rankings come out, you'll see the 4-0 PSU/OSU winner be ranked #10 or so despite being #2 or the #3 in the coach's and AP.
 
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Well I agree but we fans love our rankings. Could you imagine college footbsll fans being ok with no rankings until after week 4 (in a normal season)? Me either.

you really think that every college footbsll fan would say, “ it’s too early for rsnkings, we aren’t interested in a top 25.”

again, no. Fans love rankings, we love draft speculation. We are fans who rate 9th grade basketball players. Is it silly?? Yes, is it irrelevant?? Yes, Is it proven wrong 95% of the time? Yes? Do we still demand it and eat it up?? Yes.

SMF, you got to understand. This is all nonsense, made up to appease crazy fans like ourselves. The second we take it too serious, then it all falls to crap. No one said it’s anything but pure speculation. No coach takes it serious. It’s just for pure entertainment, nothing more.
 
Well I agree but we fans love our rankings. Could you imagine college footbsll fans being ok with no rankings until after week 4 (in a normal season)? Me either.

you really think that every college footbsll fan would say, “ it’s too early for rsnkings, we aren’t interested in a top 25.”

again, no. Fans love rankings, we love draft speculation. We are fans who rate 9th grade basketball players. Is it silly?? Yes, is it irrelevant?? Yes, Is it proven wrong 95% of the time? Yes? Do we still demand it and eat it up?? Yes.

Im not saying dont rank them, Im saying to not be stupid. Preseason polls are fine. They're fun. But once games are played, the only way to judge teams is by resume. If Georgia State rolls into Death Valley and upsets #1 Clemson, I'm sorry but I'm voting Georgia State #1. They would have BY FAR the best resume in thr country. The rest of the season their ranking would drop dramatically due to their low level of competition but for that week, no one could accurately claim to a better team. GSU would have went to the #1 team and won. Objectively speaking, they have scoreboard.
 
It's like waiting in a long line for a roller coaster only to see 10 people from the back jump towards the front. Totally flawed
 
If you know me, you know how absolute stupidity in any form makes my blood boil. I mean I cannot fathom how ANYONE can rank a team 4 weeks into the season who has yet to play a game and may never play a game. The 1 thing you can say about the CFP is they do correctly rank "resumes" and not "teams" and that is the correct way to rank once you are a few weeks into the season. Like if the season were to end today, Pitt at 3-0 has the better resume than 0-0 PSU and OSU. Are PSU and OSU better? Maybe but they haven't played so their resume sucks. For this reason, when the CFP rankings come out, you'll see the 4-0 PSU/OSU winner be ranked #10 or so despite being #2 or the #3 in the coach's and AP.
Your blood must be on constant boil being stuck with yourself at all times.
 
Im not saying dont rank them, Im saying to not be stupid. Preseason polls are fine. They're fun. But once games are played, the only way to judge teams is by resume. If Georgia State rolls into Death Valley and upsets #1 Clemson, I'm sorry but I'm voting Georgia State #1. They would have BY FAR the best resume in thr country. The rest of the season their ranking would drop dramatically due to their low level of competition but for that week, no one could accurately claim to a better team. GSU would have went to the #1 team and won. Objectively speaking, they have scoreboard.

You can't do it like that. If you do, the variables start to produce circular logic.

Okay, say Georgia State (preseason #100) beats Clemson (preseason #1) and the teams are now 1-0 and 0-1, respectively. If you want to rank Georgia State as #1 now, you are operating under the assumption that Clemson objectively was #1 - something you said you're entirely against, because that involves an unearned preseason assumption. All Clemson's resume would show is a loss to Georgia State (#100 if you believe the preseason rankings). So you can't assume Georgia State truly beat the best team in the nation by your own logic.
 
If you know me, you know how absolute stupidity in any form makes my blood boil. I mean I cannot fathom how ANYONE can rank a team 4 weeks into the season who has yet to play a game and may never play a game. The 1 thing you can say about the CFP is they do correctly rank "resumes" and not "teams" and that is the correct way to rank once you are a few weeks into the season. Like if the season were to end today, Pitt at 3-0 has the better resume than 0-0 PSU and OSU. Are PSU and OSU better? Maybe but they haven't played so their resume sucks. For this reason, when the CFP rankings come out, you'll see the 4-0 PSU/OSU winner be ranked #10 or so despite being #2 or the #3 in the coach's and AP.
gee, if I did not know any better I would think these things are subjective opinions of what people perceive at a certain point in time......but since they are based on analytical scientific study entirely based on outcomes weighed against a myriad of controls and testing I know better..
 
Well I agree but we fans love our rankings. Could you imagine college footbsll fans being ok with no rankings until after week 4 (in a normal season)? Me either.

you really think that every college footbsll fan would say, “ it’s too early for rsnkings, we aren’t interested in a top 25.”

again, no. Fans love rankings, we love draft speculation. We are fans who rate 9th grade basketball players. Is it silly?? Yes, is it irrelevant?? Yes, Is it proven wrong 95% of the time? Yes? Do we still demand it and eat it up?? Yes.

SMF, you got to understand. This is all nonsense, made up to appease crazy fans like ourselves. The second we take it too serious, then it all falls to crap. No one said it’s anything but pure speculation. No coach takes it serious. It’s just for pure entertainment, nothing more.
I honestly don't understand why they can't hold off the "formal" rankings - AP, Coaches, etc. until AFTER week 1.

You'll still have the prognostications from all the publications for the fans but nothing formal until at least everyone has played 1 game. The official preseason rankings may seem frivolous on the surface, but in reality they are not because of the part they play going forward.

You can have a legitimately great team not in the preseason top 25 that has to potentially wait weeks to enter and then weeks after that to ascend, needing those above to lose which may or may not happen. Very rarely do you see teams outside the top 25 "jump" those already inside who continue to win, regardless of who they play. The preseason polls always create a bias that is inherently flawed.

And though I agree polls can be viewed as "nonsense", they can/do influence recruiting which is the lifeblood of all teams.
 
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Agree on the 0-0 teams being ranked. VT has a great game and drops out of the top 25 to teams that haven’t played. Head scratcher.
 
You can't do it like that. If you do, the variables start to produce circular logic.

Okay, say Georgia State (preseason #100) beats Clemson (preseason #1) and the teams are now 1-0 and 0-1, respectively. If you want to rank Georgia State as #1 now, you are operating under the assumption that Clemson objectively was #1 - something you said you're entirely against, because that involves an unearned preseason assumption. All Clemson's resume would show is a loss to Georgia State (#100 if you believe the preseason rankings). So you can't assume Georgia State truly beat the best team in the nation by your own logic.

I agree with your premise. Clemson would not be the best team in the nation if they lost to at home to Georgia State. However, I would still probably rank them 15 or so. Georgia State's road win at the new #15 Clemson still probably gives them the best resume in the country after Week 1.
 
What I don't like it is brand loyalty in preseason polls. And because this is a poll driven sport and more perception still than actual results, polls matter. And what matters is where you start, and if your conference is loaded, then even when you lose you are less chance to get penalized because it is a "good loss".

A perfect example is LSU. I know LSU recruits well, and has been successful, but they were replacing 17 starters including the Heisman Trophy Winner. Yet, they were ranked 6th in preseason polls. Penn State has alot returning, but they also lost Parsons, and has a new Offensive Coordinator with little actual hands on time working with his team.

The thing about these polls, is I can predict the preseason top 10 for 2025 and probably get 7 out of 10. Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Ohio State, PSU, ND, Clemson, Oklahoma, Michigan, USC,.....
 
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If you know me, you know how absolute stupidity in any form makes my blood boil. I mean I cannot fathom how ANYONE can rank a team 4 weeks into the season who has yet to play a game and may never play a game. The 1 thing you can say about the CFP is they do correctly rank "resumes" and not "teams" and that is the correct way to rank once you are a few weeks into the season. Like if the season were to end today, Pitt at 3-0 has the better resume than 0-0 PSU and OSU. Are PSU and OSU better? Maybe but they haven't played so their resume sucks. For this reason, when the CFP rankings come out, you'll see the 4-0 PSU/OSU winner be ranked #10 or so despite being #2 or the #3 in the coach's and AP.

You whine like 6 year old girl. Who fricken cares about polls now? Doesn’t matter if those teams are ranked now. As long as Pitt keeps winning the ranking will get better and better. On the flip side the B1G will have teams ranked if they win their games. Guess what, if OS goes 8-1 or 9-0 their in the playoffs
 
What I don't like it is brand loyalty in preseason polls. And because this is a poll driven sport and more perception still than actual results, polls matter. And what matters is where you start, and if your conference is loaded, then even when you lose you are less chance to get penalized because it is a "good loss".

A perfect example is LSU. I know LSU recruits well, and has been successful, but they were replacing 17 starters including the Heisman Trophy Winner. Yet, they were ranked 6th in preseason polls. Penn State has alot returning, but they also lost Parsons, and has a new Offensive Coordinator with little actual hands on time working with his team.

The thing about these polls, is I can predict the preseason top 10 for 2025 and probably get 7 out of 10. Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Ohio State, PSU, ND, Clemson, Oklahoma, Michigan, USC,.....

You are correct but there's probably a good chance that 6 or 7 of those teams finish the 2025 season in the Top 10 also. Why? Recruiting rankings. Recruiting rankings are very accurate predictors of how teams fare on the field in the future. If you consistently get Top 5/10 classes, you are going to finish in the Top 10 pretty often, save for Texas.
 
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You are correct but there's probably a good chance that 6 or 7 of those teams finish the 2025 season in the Top 10 also. Why? Recruiting rankings. Recruiting rankings are very accurate predictors of how teams fare on the field in the future. If you consistently get Top 5/10 classes, you are going to finish in the Top 10 pretty often, save for Texas.
Well this is true. What is also true, if you start out of the polls and finish say 10-3 and start at #5 and finish 10-3 there is a much better chance the latter team is still ranked maybe at 9 or 10 and the first team is ranked like 16th or 17th.
 
Well this is true. What is also true, if you start out of the polls and finish say 10-3 and start at #5 and finish 10-3 there is a much better chance the latter team is still ranked maybe at 9 or 10 and the first team is ranked like 16th or 17th.

Polls sure but the CFP rankings do a pretty good job of ranking resumes and not brands
 
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