The aftermath…

[pittmeister]

Anybody who blames Capel for not landing Reid is wrong. According to people in the know, he’s been working on Reid for months and he thought he had him. But then the ugly side of basketball recruiting reared it’s ugly head (Wade).

Capel has a high standard when it comes to recruiting players. He goes for the 4-5 star recruits. I believe if you want to blame him for anything, blame him for wasting too much time on kids like Reid (4-5 star players)when he should try and build the program with 3 star players with upside. That is exactly what Ben Howland did when he came to Pitt. Capel is a good recruiter, but Pitt is a little tougher to sell than Duke.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Anybody who blames Capel for not landing Reid is wrong. According to people in the know, he’s been working on Reid for months and he thought he had him. But then the ugly side of basketball recruiting reared it’s ugly head (Wade).

Capel has a high standard when it comes to recruiting players. He goes for the 4-5 star recruits. I believe if you want to blame him for anything, blame him for wasting too much time on kids like Reid (4-5 star players)when he should try and build the program with 3 star players with upside. That is exactly what Ben Howland did when he came to Pitt. Capel is a good recruiter, but Pitt is a little tougher to sell than Duke.

Ok I’ll play along. Your contention is it’s no one’s fault that they wasted 3 years of time and resources on Reid because LSU paid him. By all accounts, he was gonna commit to FSU 3 weeks ago.

So you think it’s no ones fault that they wasted 3 years on a recruit that they either A) wouldn’t play the game the recruit and mom wanted to play or B) couldn’t figure out what game was needed to be played here.

If this is a case of him not figuring out until yesterday that LSU was gonna pay him like you’re saying he needs fired. Not today, not tomorrow. Yesterday.

You’re essentially calling him either naive or dumb. He is neither.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Ok I’ll play along. Your contention is it’s no one’s fault that they wasted 3 years of time and resources on Reid because LSU paid him. By all accounts, he was gonna commit to FSU 3 weeks ago.

So you think it’s no ones fault that they wasted 3 years on a recruit that they either A) wouldn’t play the game the recruit and mom wanted to play or B) couldn’t figure out what game was needed to be played here.

If this is a case of him not figuring out until yesterday that LSU was gonna pay him like you’re saying he needs fired. Not today, not tomorrow. Yesterday.

You’re essentially calling him either naive or dumb. He is neither.

What resources were actually wasted in a virtual visit environment ?
This is silly

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

What resources were actually wasted in a virtual visit environment ?
This is silly

Time, the most valuable resource there is in recruiting. Your response is typically silly.

Also, there was recruiting pre-pandemic and they’ve been on the kid for 3 years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Anybody who blames Capel for not landing Reid is wrong. According to people in the know, he’s been working on Reid for months and he thought he had him. But then the ugly side of basketball recruiting reared it’s ugly head (Wade).

Capel has a high standard when it comes to recruiting players. He goes for the 4-5 star recruits. I believe if you want to blame him for anything, blame him for wasting too much time on kids like Reid (4-5 star players)when he should try and build the program with 3 star players with upside. That is exactly what Ben Howland did when he came to Pitt. Capel is a good recruiter, but Pitt is a little tougher to sell than Duke.

Capel is also recruiting "3 star players." Why are people acting like he's only trying to land the big fish?

Drumgoole was a solid 3 star player on paper who was a total miss. A kid with his ranking could have been a 2-3 year solid starter, maybe a 16-17 PPG guys as a senior but it was a miss. I say all the time, that first full class doomed the program. In year 4, he will have no one from his first class or his first full class. He needed to do well selling his vision for those classes.

 

[TheLogicalTake]

Ok I’ll play along. Your contention is it’s no one’s fault that they wasted 3 years of time and resources on Reid because LSU paid him. By all accounts, he was gonna commit to FSU 3 weeks ago.

So you think it’s no ones fault that they wasted 3 years on a recruit that they either A) wouldn’t play the game the recruit and mom wanted to play or B) couldn’t figure out what game was needed to be played here.

If this is a case of him not figuring out until yesterday that LSU was gonna pay him like you’re saying he needs fired. Not today, not tomorrow. Yesterday.

You’re essentially calling him either naive or dumb. He is neither.

It’s also not as if Capel is a guy that came up from some low/mid major and isn’t familiar with how the game is played with high end kids. It’s silly to think that, given some of the big name recruitments he led or was part of at Duke and Oklahoma, he would be blindsided by thinking a high end recruitment might involve major dollars when, thanks to the FBI report, it’s common knowledge that the going rate for these kids involves 6 figures.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It’s also not as if Capel is a guy that came up from some low/mid major and isn’t familiar with how the game is played with high end kids. It’s silly to think that, given some of the big name recruitments he led or was part of at Duke and Oklahoma, he would be blindsided by thinking a high end recruitment might involve major dollars when, thanks to the FBI report, it’s common knowledge that the going rate for these kids involves 6 figures.

I think Capel tries to go after a couple "big fish" per class. Not every kid gets paid. Most, but not every. If he thinks he can land a kid, he'll continue to recruit them. I think he knows full well that if someone offers a bag, he'll lose the kid but its not like visiting him a few times and calls and texts is causing him to miss on other guys.

I also think Capel is really honest with these families. I think he tells them that they are going to be offered money and that's illegal for them to accept it. I think the guys he goes after are the ones who tell him they arent going to play that game. And if you listen to Vuk's podcast today, he said something like there's something very specific about why Capel's pissed off. I think its because he really believed the Reid's werent taking payments but changed their mind late with Wade.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Agreed with the OP!

Money trumps effort goodwill and integrity.

The NCAA is a garage league!

 

[pittmeister]

Ok I’ll play along. Your contention is it’s no one’s fault that they wasted 3 years of time and resources on Reid because LSU paid him. By all accounts, he was gonna commit to FSU 3 weeks ago.

So you think it’s no ones fault that they wasted 3 years on a recruit that they either A) wouldn’t play the game the recruit and mom wanted to play or B) couldn’t figure out what game was needed to be played here.

If this is a case of him not figuring out until yesterday that LSU was gonna pay him like you’re saying he needs fired. Not today, not tomorrow. Yesterday.

You’re essentially calling him either naive or dumb. He is neither.

Fair enough, but Lyke firing Capel is not an option…So what would you have done differently? What would you do if you were Capel moving forward?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Fair enough, but Lyke firing Capel is not an option…So what would you have done differently? What would you do if you were Capel moving forward?

As far as what to be done differently, you either have to pay the kid or figure out early that ThAts what they’re wanting and move on. Not much else needs to be said there. You’re either gonna swim with sharks or you’re gonna stay in the shallow end

1. Get a new staff. Keep OToole but maybe move him into a special assistant role. Need new blood to move forward.
2. re-evaluate everything you do - recruiting, development, team building, practice, weight room, in game etc. the team needs an identity. I don’t believe we’ve had one.

 

[TheLogicalTake]

Fair enough, but Lyke firing Capel is not an option…So what would you have done differently? What would you do if you were Capel moving forward?

For me, it’s three things:

- Identify undervalued and/or attainable recruits early and instead of slow playing them as you chase bigger fish, get them on board early. If you wait until Spring, you’re inviting new variables as every school in the country is scrambling to fill out a roster.

- Bring in a staff that either are attached to kids or specialize in recruiting talented areas. It’s a crappy way to play the game, but it’s obvious that their current approach isn’t working

- Create recruiting pipelines. Western PA isn’t an easy recruiting base, so we need to lock in on areas or schools and just recruit the heck out of them. Similar to my last point, get in a staff that can isolate on certain areas/schools and have a focused strategy rather than the scattershot approach we have now

 

[JD1976]

What resources were actually wasted in a virtual visit environment ?
This is silly

This. You don’t get to this level of coaching without understanding when to cut your losses. Capel and staff certainly thought they had a real shot. And even if it was a shot in the dark, these guys can certainly effectively manage 35 good prospects as well as they can 34 (or whatever the actual number of active guys in the pipeline). Anyone in the sales business can relate.

I said this in another thread, but not getting Reid or Kockburn certainly doesn’t serve as an indictment on Capel or Pitt. Now, if you want to criticize him for failing to land someone like Khadim Sy, Diallo or the guy who went to Wichita State and barely played, then that is more than fair game.

 

[gary2]

Ok I’ll play along. Your contention is it’s no one’s fault that they wasted 3 years of time and resources on Reid because LSU paid him. By all accounts, he was gonna commit to FSU 3 weeks ago.

So you think it’s no ones fault that they wasted 3 years on a recruit that they either A) wouldn’t play the game the recruit and mom wanted to play or B) couldn’t figure out what game was needed to be played here.

If this is a case of him not figuring out until yesterday that LSU was gonna pay him like you’re saying he needs fired. Not today, not tomorrow. Yesterday.

You’re essentially calling him either naive or dumb. He is neither.

Spot on

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Anybody who blames Capel for not landing Reid is wrong. According to people in the know, he’s been working on Reid for months and he thought he had him. But then the ugly side of basketball recruiting reared it’s ugly head (Wade).

Capel has a high standard when it comes to recruiting players. He goes for the 4-5 star recruits. I believe if you want to blame him for anything, blame him for wasting too much time on kids like Reid (4-5 star players)when he should try and build the program with 3 star players with upside. That is exactly what Ben Howland did when he came to Pitt. Capel is a good recruiter, but Pitt is a little tougher to sell than Duke.

Well, I said in another thread I didn't think the family was about money. I'm sitting here now thinking I was wrong, because I can't fathom why you'd want your kid to go play for a scumbag like Wade. Unless it was about money. Mamma bear had me duped.

Shame on Capel for not figuring this out, or not figuring out how to get them a big enough bag. It is on Capel, 100% on him for once again putting his eggs in one basket and coming up with nothing.

Unless Hugley ends up in jail, everyone better hope he's reinstated.

 

[PittPoker]

What resources were actually wasted in a virtual visit environment ?
This is silly

No you're silly. Do you ever have anything of value to add? Stop hijacking the thread and let the adults discuss.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Time, the most valuable resource there is in recruiting. Your response is typically silly.

Also, there was recruiting pre-pandemic and they’ve been on the kid for 3 years.

Again what time?
We’ve recruited others during that time an got commitments including transfers
You act like it’s a 9-5 job and any hour spent recruiting Reid is another away from others
It’s silly

 

[PittPoker]

What resources were actually wasted in a virtual visit environment ?
This is silly

No you're silly. Do you ever have anything of value to add? Stop hijacking the thread and let the adults discuss.

 

[pittmeister]

This. You don’t get to this level of coaching without understanding when to cut your losses. Capel and staff certainly thought they had a real shot. And even if it was a shot in the dark, these guys can certainly effectively manage 35 good prospects as well as they can 34 (or whatever the actual number of active guys in the pipeline). Anyone in the sales business can relate.

I said this in another thread, but not getting Reid or Kockburn certainly doesn’t serve as an indictment on Capel or Pitt. Now, if you want to criticize him for failing to land someone like Khadim Sy, Diallo or the guy who went to Wichita State and barely played, then that is more than fair game.

“Now, if you want to criticize him for failing to land someone like Khadim Sy, Diallo or the guy who went to Wichita State and barely played, then that is more than fair game.”

I totally agree.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Again what time?
We’ve recruited others during that time an got commitments including transfers
You act like it’s a 9-5 job and any hour spent recruiting Reid is another away from others
It’s silly

Two mediocre transfers and a kid coming off a torn ACL. Zero centers. They spent 3 years chasing this kid. Your answer that time wasn’t spent chasing a kid they either wouldn’t pay or didn’t know wanted paid isn’t waste is silly.

Another silly reply from you I’m sure will be coming.

 

[thebadby2]

As far as what to be done differently, you either have to pay the kid or figure out early that ThAts what they’re wanting and move on. Not much else needs to be said there. You’re either gonna swim with sharks or you’re gonna stay in the shallow end

1. Get a new staff. Keep OToole but maybe move him into a special assistant role. Need new blood to move forward.
2. re-evaluate everything you do - recruiting, development, team building, practice, weight room, in game etc. the team needs an identity. I don’t believe we’ve had one.

Bring in these guys:

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Two mediocre transfers and a kid coming off a torn ACL. Zero centers. They spent 3 years chasing this kid. Your answer that time wasn’t spent chasing a kid they either wouldn’t pay or didn’t know wanted paid isn’t waste is silly.

Another silly reply from you I’m sure will be coming.

It’s not zero sum
It’s that simple

by your definition any recruit who doesn’t sign is a waste of time
Which is nonsense

your time line is 3 years -
So how much time do you actually think was wasted ?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

It’s not zero sum
It’s that simple

by your definition any recruit who doesn’t sign is a waste of time
Which is nonsense

your time line is 3 years -
So how much time do you actually think was wasted ?

3 years if they just figured out the kid wanted paid and wouldn’t do it, as the OP suggested, silly.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

As far as what to be done differently, you either have to pay the kid or figure out early that ThAts what they’re wanting and move on. Not much else needs to be said there. You’re either gonna swim with sharks or you’re gonna stay in the shallow end

1. Get a new staff. Keep OToole but maybe move him into a special assistant role. Need new blood to move forward.
2. re-evaluate everything you do - recruiting, development, team building, practice, weight room, in game etc. the team needs an identity. I don’t believe we’ve had one.

You are correct. If Capel keeps status quo, then it isn’t a matter of if, but when. Changes need to be made and they must be made very soon.

 

[gary2]

As far as what to be done differently, you either have to pay the kid or figure out early that ThAts what they’re wanting and move on. Not much else needs to be said there. You’re either gonna swim with sharks or you’re gonna stay in the shallow end

1. Get a new staff. Keep OToole but maybe move him into a special assistant role. Need new blood to move forward.
2. re-evaluate everything you do - recruiting, development, team building, practice, weight room, in game etc. the team needs an identity. I don’t believe we’ve had one.

I have heard from an excellent source that at least one player’s parent does not feel the strength and conditioning program is adequate.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

It’s not zero sum
It’s that simple

by your definition any recruit who doesn’t sign is a waste of time
Which is nonsense

your time line is 3 years -
So how much time do you actually think was wasted ?

3 years if they just figured out the kid wanted paid and wouldn’t do it, as the OP suggested, silly.

Nobody except the usual sour grapes posters are claiming paid
Relax

 

[pittmeister]

You are correct. If Capel keeps status quo, then it isn’t a matter of if, but when. Changes need to be made and they must be made very soon.

I agree. I just want all of us to be fair and opened minded when criticizing Capel. Some of it is fair game. Changes do need to be made. However, some of it is misguided. I will not criticize him for making an all out effort to land Reid. He believed he had a legit shot and that’s good enough for me…

 

[Parkview57]

What would you do if you were Capel moving forward?

Apply some where else, his knowledge/approach does not fit the circumstance. It is not a character flaw, nor anything but a bad fit. If I were he and I was all about money, I would probably stay and try some of the solutions on this board just for kicks, but if it ain't my style it ain't gonna work, but it will look good. Those are his best two options, IMHO

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I agree. I just want all of us to be fair and opened minded when criticizing Capel. Some of it is fair game. Changes do need to be made. However, some of it is misguided. I will not criticize him for making an all out effort to land Reid. He believed he had a legit shot and that’s good enough for me…

Yea I don't agree that he shouldn't go after those guys. Not at all. I think he really believed he could get him and the family wouldn't take a payment but in the end, they went for the money. Cant blame them