The PGA Championship

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I think it lost a lot of relevancy not just because of football, but because in many cases, it was the Major of the mediocre. The one off. The guy least likely to win a major, well won the PGA. It cheapened this tourney.

Yes, Jack has won multiple, Tiger, Ray Floyd, Trevino, has won multiple as has Rory and Koepka, Phil has won, JT, Davis Love, etc.....

But these guys have also won. Rich Beem. Wayne Grady. Shaun Micheel (who I will argue is the worst major winner ever), David Toms, Yang Young-eon, Dufner, Jimmy Walker, Keegan Bradley....not exactly a who's who.

Wayne Grady, his only major in 1990. He only had one other PGA tour win. In his defense, he did lose the Open (British) in a playoff in 1989.

Rich Beem: His only major in 2002. Here's the thing about Beem, in all his Major appearances, he only once finished in the top 30 of the event (Masters in 2003, finished 15th)....obviously exempt for the PGA, his next best finish has been 43rd.

Yang Tung-eon Only major in 2009: Did win like 15 times around the globe, also had 2 other top 10 finishes in Majors, including a 3rd in the US Open in 2011.

Jimmy Walker: Only major in 2016. In his defense, in 2009, he had top 10's in 3 of the 4 majors (Masters 8th, US Open 9th and PGA 7th) so that was an excellent year. But other than these times, he has won 4 other nondescript PGA events.

Shaun Micheel: Not only has he won one major (PGA 2003), that was his only win any professional golf tournament. Micheel almost pulled off a miracle in the 2006 PGA where he finished 2nd. But this guy.....outside of that miracle in 2003....never did anything.

I think this is the big reason the PGA Championship has always been considered a cut under the other 3 majors and closer to the TPC, just because it has produced so many anonymous winners.

 

[pitt-girl]

I think it lost a lot of relevancy not just because of football, but because in many cases, it was the Major of the mediocre. The one off. The guy least likely to win a major, well won the PGA. It cheapened this tourney.

Yes, Jack has won multiple, Tiger, Ray Floyd, Trevino, has won multiple as has Rory and Koepka, Phil has won, JT, Davis Love, etc.....

But these guys have also won. Rich Beem. Wayne Grady. Shaun Micheel (who I will argue is the worst major winner ever), David Toms, Yang Young-eon, Dufner, Jimmy Walker, Keegan Bradley....not exactly a who's who.

Wayne Grady, his only major in 1990. He only had one other PGA tour win. In his defense, he did lose the Open (British) in a playoff in 1989.

Rich Beem: His only major in 2002. Here's the thing about Beem, in all his Major appearances, he only once finished in the top 30 of the event (Masters in 2003, finished 15th)....obviously exempt for the PGA, his next best finish has been 43rd.

Yang Tung-eon Only major in 2009: Did win like 15 times around the globe, also had 2 other top 10 finishes in Majors, including a 3rd in the US Open in 2011.

Jimmy Walker: Only major in 2016. In his defense, in 2009, he had top 10's in 3 of the 4 majors (Masters 8th, US Open 9th and PGA 7th) so that was an excellent year. But other than these times, he has won 4 other nondescript PGA events.

Shaun Micheel: Not only has he won one major (PGA 2003), that was his only win any professional golf tournament. Micheel almost pulled off a miracle in the 2006 PGA where he finished 2nd. But this guy.....outside of that miracle in 2003....never did anything.

I think this is the big reason the PGA Championship has always been considered a cut under the other 3 majors and closer to the TPC, just because it has produced so many anonymous winners.

Spot on Recruits. Plus it was the last major and almost seemed like an afterthought. Moving it was brilliant as a run up to the US Open and The Open. That immediately gives it more credibility.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Ben Curtis, Paul Lawrie and Todd Hamilton won the British and that’s just off the top of my head. It happens. Mike Weir won the Masters. It happens. I agree that the PGA is probably the least of them whether it’s fair or not. But the winners don’t necessarily reflect the greatness (or lack of) of an event.

And in looking it up - Stewart Cink, Darren Clarke and Henrik Stenson won the British. Stenson’s a good player but not a big winner otherwise.

But there’s still no question the PGA winners were more anonymous and of lesser status.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Spot on Recruits. Plus it was the last major and almost seemed like an afterthought. Moving it was brilliant as a run up to the US Open and The Open. That immediately gives it more credibility.

But I was looking back at the list of winners, and just how many anonymous, "one off" winners won the PGA over the last 30 years.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Ben Curtis, Paul Lawrie and Todd Hamilton won the British and that’s just off the top of my head. It happens. Mike Weir won the Masters. It happens. I agree that the PGA is probably the least of them whether it’s fair or not. But the winners don’t necessarily reflect the greatness (or lack of) of an event.

And in looking it up - Stewart Cink, Darren Clarke and Henrik Stenson won the British. Stenson’s a good player but not a big winner otherwise.

Yeah the British Open....... What was a shame, is Cink stole it from a 60+ year old Tom Watson, which would have been one of the greatest feats ever, and Stenson shot a 63 to Phil's 65 in an epic final rd duel. But yeah, the guys above you mentioned definitely were anomalies.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Yeah the British Open....... What was a shame, is Cink stole it from a 60+ year old Tom Watson, which would have been one of the greatest feats ever, and Stenson shot a 63 to Phil's 65 in an epic final rd duel. But yeah, the guys above you mentioned definitely were anomalies.

I was never a Watson fan but was pulling as hard for him as anyone in a long time.

I’ll never forget that par putt on 18. Not that he missed it - the stroke looked like that of anyone you’d find on a random muni anywhere. Even with all of his experience and wins the pressure annihilated him.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

british open is garbage. it'd be like watching basketball being played with peach buckets and laces on the ball. "links style courses with brown grass is so traditional." Uh no, it's terrible and the game has evolved as have the courses so catch up..

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

You can do the same thing with the other majors.

Webb Simpson
Graeme McDowell
Lucas Glover
Geoff Ogilvy
Michael Campbell

All won the US Open in the last 15 years.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

british open is garbage. it'd be like watching basketball being played with peach buckets and laces on the ball. "links style courses with brown grass is so traditional." Uh no, it's terrible and the game has evolved as have the courses so catch up..

What do you mean by evolved and British Open coursed needing to catch up?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

What do you mean by evolved and British Open coursed needing to catch up?

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

There was a drought in Scotland last year. This was 2007.

They don't want a soft course and prefer a hard fairways and greens. it brings the rolling fairways and bunkers into play. Add the wind and it's a different style of play.

 

[thebadby2]

I think it lost a lot of relevancy not just because of football, but because in many cases, it was the Major of the mediocre. The one off. The guy least likely to win a major, well won the PGA. It cheapened this tourney.

Yes, Jack has won multiple, Tiger, Ray Floyd, Trevino, has won multiple as has Rory and Koepka, Phil has won, JT, Davis Love, etc.....

But these guys have also won. Rich Beem. Wayne Grady. Shaun Micheel (who I will argue is the worst major winner ever), David Toms, Yang Young-eon, Dufner, Jimmy Walker, Keegan Bradley....not exactly a who's who.

Wayne Grady, his only major in 1990. He only had one other PGA tour win. In his defense, he did lose the Open (British) in a playoff in 1989.

Rich Beem: His only major in 2002. Here's the thing about Beem, in all his Major appearances, he only once finished in the top 30 of the event (Masters in 2003, finished 15th)....obviously exempt for the PGA, his next best finish has been 43rd.

Yang Tung-eon Only major in 2009: Did win like 15 times around the globe, also had 2 other top 10 finishes in Majors, including a 3rd in the US Open in 2011.

Jimmy Walker: Only major in 2016. In his defense, in 2009, he had top 10's in 3 of the 4 majors (Masters 8th, US Open 9th and PGA 7th) so that was an excellent year. But other than these times, he has won 4 other nondescript PGA events.

Shaun Micheel: Not only has he won one major (PGA 2003), that was his only win any professional golf tournament. Micheel almost pulled off a miracle in the 2006 PGA where he finished 2nd. But this guy.....outside of that miracle in 2003....never did anything.

I think this is the big reason the PGA Championship has always been considered a cut under the other 3 majors and closer to the TPC, just because it has produced so many anonymous winners.

I think you could say this about any of the majors. Look at these US Open winners:
Steve Jones
Michael Campbell
Lucas Glover
Graeme McDowell

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You can do the same thing with the other majors.

Webb Simpson
Graeme McDowell
Lucas Glover
Geoff Ogilvy
Michael Campbell

All won the US Open in the last 15 years.

True. But aside from Campbell, all of those guys have been factors multiple times (top 5, top 10) in multiple majors. Simpson also has won the TPC. You also can say Steve Jones who won the 1996 US Open, but he had 7 other PGA tour wins. Ogilvy won 5 PGA events, Simpson again has won 5, including a Players Champ and Fed Ex Cup Playoff, McDowell has 5 PGA wins and also a 2nd.

Michael Campbell belongs on the Shaun Micheel, Rich Beem. Wayne Grady, Ben Curtis, Todd Hamilton wing of "WTF", how did these guys win a major?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

True. But aside from Campbell, all of those guys have been factors multiple times (top 5, top 10) in multiple majors. Simpson also has won the TPC. You also can say Steve Jones who won the 1996 US Open, but he had 7 other PGA tour wins. Ogilvy won 5 PGA events, Simpson again has won 5, including a Players Champ and Fed Ex Cup Playoff, McDowell has 5 PGA wins and also a 2nd.

Michael Campbell belongs on the Shaun Micheel, Rich Beem. Wayne Grady, Ben Curtis, Todd Hamilton wing of "WTF", how did these guys win a major?

You’re right but even these guys are super talented. When things click for 4 days it happens. Even in regular events - guys win and disappear. Even though they aren’t majors winning a tour event is no small feat (thanks Mr Obvious). Tommy Gainey was on Big Break. He got hot at the right time, got on tour and won an event. I don’t think anybody’s heard of him since.

Beem shot 82 this past Saturday and 69 Sunday. I think there were less than a dozen under par yesterday and he was one of them.
And I don’t think he plays much any more - does more broadcasting than anything.

 

[upj87]

There was a drought in Scotland last year. This was 2007.

They don't want a soft course and prefer a hard fairways and greens. it brings the rolling fairways and bunkers into play. Add the wind and it's a different style of play.

I'm thinking maybe an exchange of some high tech sprinkler technology for booze then...in comparison with the States they kind of take care of their fairways and greens with the same diligence as they do with their teeth...

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

True. But aside from Campbell, all of those guys have been factors multiple times (top 5, top 10) in multiple majors. Simpson also has won the TPC. You also can say Steve Jones who won the 1996 US Open, but he had 7 other PGA tour wins. Ogilvy won 5 PGA events, Simpson again has won 5, including a Players Champ and Fed Ex Cup Playoff, McDowell has 5 PGA wins and also a 2nd.

Michael Campbell belongs on the Shaun Micheel, Rich Beem. Wayne Grady, Ben Curtis, Todd Hamilton wing of "WTF", how did these guys win a major?

They aren't any different. In fact, David Toms is far better than anyone I listed. Webb Simpson is no different than Keegan Bradley. Jimmy Walker has 6 PGA wins and Dufner has 5.

You're splitting hairs, and I only had to go back 15 years to find 5 schlubs who won the US Open.

 

[pitt-girl]

They aren't any different. In fact, David Toms is far better than anyone I listed. Webb Simpson is no different than Keegan Bradley. Jimmy Walker has 6 PGA wins and Dufner has 5.

You're splitting hairs, and I only had to go back 15 years to find 5 schlubs who won the US Open.

In Recruits defense, I have always thought it was common knowledge the PGA tournament produced more obscure winners than any of the other majors.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

In Recruits defense, I have always thought it was common knowledge the PGA tournament produced more obscure winners than any of the other majors.

It’s been presented that way. But enough names have been posted here to show it’s not quite the case.

And more - Masters winners - Danny Willet, Charl Schwartzel, Trevor Immelman. Maybe Angel Cabrera? Oddly he backed it up with the US Open at Oakmont. But otherwise he’s been nondescript. Only 1 other tour win.

One other thing I don’t think was mentioned. The venues for the PGA have been more lackluster as well, relatively speaking overall.

 

[Alan Partridge]

british open is garbage. it'd be like watching basketball being played with peach buckets and laces on the ball. "links style courses with brown grass is so traditional." Uh no, it's terrible and the game has evolved as have the courses so catch up..

Chambers Bay is evolution.

 

[pitt-girl]

It’s been presented that way. But enough names have been posted here to show it’s not quite the case.

And more - Masters winners - Danny Willet, Charl Schwartzel, Trevor Immelman. Maybe Angel Cabrera? Oddly he backed it up with the US Open at Oakmont. But otherwise he’s been nondescript. Only 1 other tour win.

Without actually googling this, I thought PGA tournaments were held on courses that aren't always as tough as Augusta or US Open courses. I remember years with +20 winning scores. But like I said, I could be wrong.

 

[upj87]

Without actually googling this, I thought PGA tournaments were held on courses that aren't always as tough as Augusta or US Open courses. I remember years with +20 winning scores. But like I said, I could be wrong.

+20 sounds pretty tough to me...in fact, +20 sounds pretty personally familiar to me...


The Masters: 18-under, Tiger Woods, 1997

U.S. Open: 16-under, set by Rory McIlroy in 2011 and tied by Brooks Koekpa in 2017.

British Open: 20-under, Henrik Stenson, 2016

PGA Championship: 20-under, Jason Day, 2015


In spite of the closeness in these records I do tend to agree with you in that PGA courses seem to be the courses that just could not cut it as US Open courses anymore.

 

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

I personally hate the British open if its not played on the Old Course at St. Andrews.

Theres really nothing to like about it. I have never heard of the places they are playing at and most likely will never see them. I will have at least the opportunity to see bethpage. it also tees off in the middle of the night and I have no interest in watching something I can just read about online and get a recap. The final group in the final round last year tee’d off at like 9:30 in the morning and I hadn’t even made the turn yet on my round that same morning yet.... Tiger was in it and I remember checking my phone 1000 times to see what he was doing.

Moving the PGA to May was a great Idea... Great bridge to the U.S. Open next month

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Without actually googling this, I thought PGA tournaments were held on courses that aren't always as tough as Augusta or US Open courses. I remember years with +20 winning scores. But like I said, I could be wrong.

You’re correct and that’s what I was saying. Part of the perception of the PGA being the least prestigious also includes the venues. Not too many of the tracks they played had anyone’s blood pumping - including the players. This past week was one exception.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

+20 sounds pretty tough to me...in fact, +20 sounds pretty personally familiar to me...


The Masters: 18-under, Tiger Woods, 1997

U.S. Open: 16-under, set by Rory McIlroy in 2011 and tied by Brooks Koekpa in 2017.

British Open: 20-under, Henrik Stenson, 2016

PGA Championship: 20-under, Jason Day, 2015


In spite of the closeness in these records I do tend to agree with you in that PGA courses seem to be the courses that just could not cut it as US Open courses anymore.

Obviously Augusta is Augusta. But many of these courses are set up tough but with today's length, it is still easily gettable if the weather cooperates. Some though, Erin Hills, Congressional, Chambers Bay are not fit for the US Open.

 

[JS School]

british open is garbage. it'd be like watching basketball being played with peach buckets and laces on the ball. "links style courses with brown grass is so traditional." Uh no, it's terrible and the game has evolved as have the courses so catch up..

The British Open is at Royal Portrush this year, for the first time since 1951. It's spectacular, if you think that course is garbage it's only because you love trees on golf courses. If I had 10 rounds to split between them, I'd play Portrush 7 times and Pebble Beach 3.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The British Open is at Royal Portrush this year, for the first time since 1951. It's spectacular, if you think that course is garbage it's only because you love trees on golf courses. If I had 10 rounds to split between them, I'd play Portrush 7 times and Pebble Beach 3.

Interesting. That is on the north coast of Northern Ireland. Definitely will be interested in seeing this course.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

The British Open is at Royal Portrush this year, for the first time since 1951. It's spectacular, if you think that course is garbage it's only because you love trees on golf courses. If I had 10 rounds to split between them, I'd play Portrush 7 times and Pebble Beach 3.

I just googled this course, it looks insanely nice.. why would I think it's garbage?

 

[BuffetParrothead]

IMO for all majors the courses should be a combination of the longest, and most difficult courses in the long course category.

Longer courses force players to hit driver even if the odds are against them which makes things interesting.

If the longer hitters are hitting driver, it pressures the next group to follow suit.

Nothing better than to see the best in the world scramble from the woods, hit from high rough, and have long second shots to fast greens surrounded by water or deep bunkers!

IMO water on a course lots of brooks and ponds should be top priority for selecting championship PGA golf courses. The penalty for the plunk is another great one for the top players in the world to attempt to avoid.

Make them struggle! They're professionals!

 

[JS School]

I just googled this course, it looks insanely nice.. why would I think it's garbage?

Maybe because you said links courses are terrible and the British Open is garbage?
It will probably be green, but it could be brown if it's a dry summer. Ireland usually gets more rain than Scotland or England, though.

 

[JS School]

Interesting. That is on the north coast of Northern Ireland. Definitely will be interested in seeing this course.

If you look at the upper right hand hand corner of the first picture you can see the remains of Dunluce Castle on the cliff beyond the 4th green. Part of it fell into the ocean a couple of centuries ago. If you like Irish whiskey, the Bushmill distillery is nearby. So is the Giant's Causeway. Portrush is a great place, but the R&A wouldn't bring the Open back for over half a century because of IRA terrorist activity in the area.

 

[thebadby2]

I'm thinking maybe an exchange of some high tech sprinkler technology for booze then...in comparison with the States they kind of take care of their fairways and greens with the same diligence as they do with their teeth...

The Chinese are gobbling up all the good scotch--and bourbon.

Prices up, supply down. Sucks for us brown liquor enthusiasts.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

IMO for all majors the courses should be a combination of the longest, and most difficult courses in the long course category.

Longer courses force players to hit driver even if the odds are against them which makes things interesting.

If the longer hitters are hitting driver, it pressures the next group to follow suit.

Nothing better than to see the best in the world scramble from the woods, hit from high rough, and have long second shots to fast greens surrounded by water or deep bunkers!

IMO water on a course lots of brooks and ponds should be top priority for selecting championship PGA golf courses. The penalty for the plunk is another great one for the top players in the world to attempt to avoid.

Make them struggle! They're professionals!

The longer courses often times take too many guys out of the equation. I love to see the bombs. I like to hit them. But it’s not totally necessary. Merion hosted the US Open a few years ago and that’s short by any measure. Over par won.

But long does give guys like Koepka an advantage. Even if he’s crooked he’s hitting 3 clubs less than some guys and that’s an enormous advantage out of the rough. But that’s the modern game. Bomb and gouge.

 

[FireballZ]

I think it lost a lot of relevancy not just because of football, but because in many cases, it was the Major of the mediocre. The one off. The guy least likely to win a major, well won the PGA. It cheapened this tourney.

Yes, Jack has won multiple, Tiger, Ray Floyd, Trevino, has won multiple as has Rory and Koepka, Phil has won, JT, Davis Love, etc.....

But these guys have also won. Rich Beem. Wayne Grady. Shaun Micheel (who I will argue is the worst major winner ever), David Toms, Yang Young-eon, Dufner, Jimmy Walker, Keegan Bradley....not exactly a who's who.

Wayne Grady, his only major in 1990. He only had one other PGA tour win. In his defense, he did lose the Open (British) in a playoff in 1989.

Rich Beem: His only major in 2002. Here's the thing about Beem, in all his Major appearances, he only once finished in the top 30 of the event (Masters in 2003, finished 15th)....obviously exempt for the PGA, his next best finish has been 43rd.

Yang Tung-eon Only major in 2009: Did win like 15 times around the globe, also had 2 other top 10 finishes in Majors, including a 3rd in the US Open in 2011.

Jimmy Walker: Only major in 2016. In his defense, in 2009, he had top 10's in 3 of the 4 majors (Masters 8th, US Open 9th and PGA 7th) so that was an excellent year. But other than these times, he has won 4 other nondescript PGA events.

Shaun Micheel: Not only has he won one major (PGA 2003), that was his only win any professional golf tournament. Micheel almost pulled off a miracle in the 2006 PGA where he finished 2nd. But this guy.....outside of that miracle in 2003....never did anything.

I think this is the big reason the PGA Championship has always been considered a cut under the other 3 majors and closer to the TPC, just because it has produced so many anonymous winners.

Jimmy Walker probably doesn't deserve to be on this list. He was a top 25-50 player for a solid 3-4 year period before his bout with Lyme knocked him on his ass a few years ago.

 

[pitt-girl]

Interesting. That is on the north coast of Northern Ireland. Definitely will be interested in seeing this course.

Wow. Gorgeous. That is links golf at its finest.