The Pitt fan is great, the team has not reciprocated

[Saboteur]

I read, hear, watch a ton of crap about how bad Pitt fans are. As an actual paying customer, I think I have a say in this matter since I often have tickets to spare and offer them to friends.

"Everyone loves a winner" goes the expression. For ships and giggles, I decided to review the number of excellent seasons enjoyed by our geographically nearest rivals Ohio State, WVU, PSU and VTech. ND is excluded for geography reasons alone.

Let me also note that in addition to Pitt football, I attend the occasional OSU, PSU and WVU games. This year, I attended OSU v. Nebraska...a game with abut 2,500 empty seats in Ohio Stadium.

My argument is this. If losing breeds losing, mediocrity breeds apathy. Pitt fans are numerous given the lack of excellence over the last 20 years, not to mention the last 35.

Here are the number of 10 win or more seasons enjoyed by our neighbors and us since 2000.

Ohio State 16
VTech 11
PSU 6
WVU 5
Pitt 1

Even in the last 20 years, the difference is staggering! WVU 500% better, PSU 600% better, Vtech 1,100% better, Ohio State 1,600% better!

I don't care what business you are in, that lack of success does not sell tickets nor does it build a fan/customer base.

So the next time someone write that they "regret" going to a game or that our fan base stinks, remember that we've had no reason to jump on a bandwagon of mediocrity.

If you think the Pitt fan is unworthy, then tell me how often you spend money on inferior products and services. Now pass the Hydrox cookies please.

 

[ThePanthers]

Explain basketball then. 15 fantastic years and then everyone is gone at the first sign of trouble. And this is with the lowest donations to help support and keep up with the programs you are comparing to.

And the main issue is you are viewing it as a business where true college towns such as Columbus, Happy Valley, Morgantown view it as a passion, almost a religion (not saying it si good or bad). But that is why they are consistently successful.

Do 4 and 5 star kids want to come to half empty stadiums and play? No. That is a huge aspect in trying to build a program. It's not a professional sport where you have salary caps and can sign players.

Decide if you want to come or not, but just realize it's not helping matters one bit if you stay away or do not donate.

 

[Saboteur]

Explain basketball then. 15 fantastic years and then everyone is gone at the first sign of trouble. And this is with the lowest donations to help support and keep up with the programs you are comparing to.

And the main issue is you are viewing it as a business where true college towns such as Columbus, Happy Valley, Morgantown view it as a passion, almost a religion (not saying it si good or bad). But that is why they are consistently successful.

Do 4 and 5 star kids want to come to half empty stadiums and play? No. That is a huge aspect in trying to build a program. It's not a professional sport where you have salary caps and can sign players.

Decide if you want to come or not, but just realize it's not helping matters one bit if you stay away or do not donate.

Basketball. Dixon indifference + miserable AD + Stallings is a recipe for disaster.
The winless season was not a fluke, it was the car crash scene at the end of 15 years of total fan support. Somehow the 15 years got short rift..give me 15 years of excellence in football and I'll take my chances.

 

[ThePanthers]

We aren't going to get 15 years of excellence with half empty stadiums and donations/revenues toward the bottom of the P5.

Again, Pitt fans are used to pro sports and view team management like a business. The major blue bloods and other college teams fans view it as a passion, something they invest in and support regardless.

Don't know which one is right or wrong, but I can tell you which ones are successful.

People keep bringing up 30 years of mediocre play as a reason to stay away, yet they never explain why it was empty in the mid 80s, 90s, etc when it was only a handful of years of mediocre play.

 

[Delpanther]

We aren't going to get 15 years of excellence with half empty stadiums and donations/revenues toward the bottom of the P5.

Again, Pitt fans are used to pro sports and view team management like a business. The major blue bloods and other college teams fans view it as a passion, something they invest in and support regardless.

Don't know which one is right or wrong, but I can tell you which ones are successful.

People keep bringing up 30 years of mediocre play as a reason to stay away, yet they never explain why it was empty in the mid 80s, 90s, etc when it was only a handful of years of mediocre play.

Why the stadium was empty in the mid 80’s and 90’s.... let me count the reasons, none of which had anything to do with money or fan support: giving Sherrill the cold shoulder leading to his exit, hiring an incompetent replacement for Sherrill, pushing out Mike Gottfried and replacing him with a totally incompetent replacement. If you want to go beyond the 90’s, axing Wannstedt and then creating a coaching circus, hiring perhaps the worst AD in the history of the ncaa not once but twice and then giving him a golden parachute. History is s guide but only if you know it.

 

[pittbb80]

The blue bloods are the blue bloods because they didnt just have a great program for a 4 or 5 year period........they've consistently won and won big throughout the course of their history. But I'll tell you that even with the blue bloods, if they were to have a period of down years, they wouldnt be packing the stadium against lesser teams. Look at UPS and the number of no shows they have when they are not in contention for the B10 title and they are playing less attractive games.

Pitt had one relativley short run. During that period few games were attractive games as they played the temples and rutgers of the world. When they had decent games the stadium was filled. But that run wasnt long enough to build a loyal following.

Pittsburgh and most places support winners and an exciting product. It doesnt take long for paying customers to stop showing up to see a bad product.

 

[Saboteur]

The blue bloods are the blue bloods because they didnt just have a great program for a 4 or 5 year period........they've consistently won and won big throughout the course of their history. But I'll tell you that even with the blue bloods, if they were to have a period of down years, they wouldnt be packing the stadium against lesser teams. Look at UPS and the number of no shows they have when they are not in contention for the B10 title and they are playing less attractive games.

Pitt had one relativley short run. During that period few games were attractive games as they played the temples and rutgers of the world. When they had decent games the stadium was filled. But that run wasnt long enough to build a loyal following.

Pittsburgh and most places support winners and an exciting product. It doesnt take long for paying customers to stop showing up to see a bad product.

That was my point about the empty seats at the OSU v. Nebraska game. Even OSU has a point where the bubble bursts. Those tickets are expensive and "yes", they will still fill the place for Michigan, PSU and probably MSU. But with the expanded schedule in conference and the inevitable drop off of some degree with Meyer gone, teams like illinois, Indiana, etc. are going to see alot of empty seats.
And for those who think Pitt students are the only ones to leave early, go to Ohio Stadium for most games and check out the south stands.
OSU will still get tons of people, but even they are not immune from losing fans if they lose... because they've lost a few while winning at a .900 level.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Explain basketball then. 15 fantastic years and then everyone is gone at the first sign of trouble. And this is with the lowest donations to help support and keep up with the programs you are comparing to.

And the main issue is you are viewing it as a business where true college towns such as Columbus, Happy Valley, Morgantown view it as a passion, almost a religion (not saying it si good or bad). But that is why they are consistently successful.

Do 4 and 5 star kids want to come to half empty stadiums and play? No. That is a huge aspect in trying to build a program. It's not a professional sport where you have salary caps and can sign players.

Decide if you want to come or not, but just realize it's not helping matters one bit if you stay away or do not donate.

Pittsburgh is possibly the worst basketball town in America. Yinzers ain't coming unless we are Final Four caliber. Sad but true. Even if Capel gets this team back to Dixon II/Bubble status, they ain't coming.

As for football, I think the amount of support Pitt gets given their historically long streak of mediocrity is tremendous. If there was some metric that tracked attendance per team performance, I would think Pitt would rank fairly high.

 

[pittbb80]

That was my point about the empty seats at the OSU v. Nebraska game. Even OSU has a point where the bubble bursts. Those tickets are expensive and "yes", they will still fill the place for Michigan, PSU and probably MSU. But with the expanded schedule in conference and the inevitable drop off of some degree with Meyer gone, teams like illinois, Indiana, etc. are going to see alot of empty seats.
And for those who think Pitt students are the only ones to leave early, go to Ohio Stadium for most games and check out the south stands.
OSU will still get tons of people, but even they are not immune from losing fans if they lose... because they've lost a few while winning at a .900 level.

I think its even worse today in terms of no shows and decline in ticket sales than it was back then because the competition for the entertainment $ and the over exposure on TV and the internet of sports has really made attending games far less compelling than it was in the past.

 

[HailtoPitt]

90% of the problem has been Pitt. Blame the fans for 10% of it. Not even going back as far as the 80s poor decisions... did the fans bring back an over the hill Majors? Did the fans cause Pitt Stadium to fall into a state of near disrepair? Did the fans allow the Walt firing to turn into a cluster? Did the fans rehire SP? Did the fans screw up the Wanny firing? Did the fans screw up the Haywood fiasco? Did the fans screw up the Todd Graham situation? Did the fans constantly change the uniform designed, colors and logos? Nope. Pitt's ineptitude caused much of these things. People should consider it remarkable that Pitt still has fans at all, considering how often we have been d*cked around. You can't just have a constant rotunda of poor to average coaches, move to an off campus stadium, make significant uniform changes every 3 years, see a relatively high coaching turnover rate, and expect success. Imagine if Pitt were a business and did all this. How would that work out? We saw what happened when Coca Cola messed with a product and logo people have been accustomed to. What if they had forced that new COKE logo on people for 20 years AND adjusted the look of their cans every 3 years AND kept changing CEO, etc? The result would be lower sales, of course. Then they blamed the customer for not liking their product enough. Lol.

 

[McKee Place]

"Bad fans" are those that go to one less game than you, and spend/donate $0.01 or more less than you

 

[Saboteur]

90% of the problem has been Pitt. Blame the fans for 10% of it. Not even going back as far as the 80s poor decisions... did the fans bring back an over the hill Majors? Did the fans cause Pitt Stadium to fall into a state of near disrepair? Did the fans allow the Walt firing to turn into a cluster? Did the fans rehire SP? Did the fans screw up the Wanny firing? Did the fans screw up the Haywood fiasco? Did the fans screw up the Todd Graham situation? Did the fans constantly change the uniform designed, colors and logos? Nope. Pitt's ineptitude caused much of these things. People should consider it remarkable that Pitt still has fans at all, considering how often we have been d*cked around. You can't just have a constant rotunda of poor to average coaches, move to an off campus stadium, make significant uniform changes every 3 years, see a relatively high coaching turnover rate, and expect success. Imagine if Pitt were a business and did all this. How would that work out? We saw what happened when Coca Cola messed with a product and logo people have been accustomed to. What if they had forced that new COKE logo on people for 20 years AND adjusted the look of their cans every 3 years AND kept changing CEO, etc? The result would be lower sales, of course. Then they blamed the customer for not liking their product enough. Lol.

Perfectly stated.

 

[ThePanthers]

That was my point about the empty seats at the OSU v. Nebraska game. Even OSU has a point where the bubble bursts. Those tickets are expensive and "yes", they will still fill the place for Michigan, PSU and probably MSU. But with the expanded schedule in conference and the inevitable drop off of some degree with Meyer gone, teams like illinois, Indiana, etc. are going to see alot of empty seats.
And for those who think Pitt students are the only ones to leave early, go to Ohio Stadium for most games and check out the south stands.
OSU will still get tons of people, but even they are not immune from losing fans if they lose... because they've lost a few while winning at a .900 level.

2500 empty seats in a 90k stadium do not equal 40k empty seats in a 65k stadium.

 

[ThePanthers]

Pittsburgh is possibly the worst basketball town in America. Yinzers ain't coming unless we are Final Four caliber. Sad but true. Even if Capel gets this team back to Dixon II/Bubble status, they ain't coming.

As for football, I think the amount of support Pitt gets given their historically long streak of mediocrity is tremendous. If there was some metric that tracked attendance per team performance, I would think Pitt would rank fairly high.

Again, why was pitt stadium empty in the mid 80s shortly after their golden years. It didnt just start recently.

As for bb (and every other sport) we treat it differently here than in true college towns whichs adds a roadblock to us ever turning things around.

It is what it is and always will be here.

 

[ThePanthers]

Perfectly stated.

I had to unhide to who you were responding to. The majority of schools have multiple colors and logos now. And our fans wanted to fire narduzzi at the beginning of the year while also bitching about stability.

Pitt definitley has blame. Yet all the negative posted, what about the facility improvements even though donations are paltry. What about getting us a seat at the table with the p5. And this admin seems to be putting forward a serious effort to improve things further. There are many positives to go along with those negatives.

 

[Saboteur]

2500 empty seats in a 90k stadium do not equal 40k empty seats in a 65k stadium.

No it does not. But neither does a team that has won 10 or more games 16 times in the last 20 years equal a team that has won 10 games only one season out of the last 20.

 

[rmf05]

Aside from 75'-82', Pitt football has been below average. All our supposed rivals have been far better.

Even if every potential Pitt football fan was committed, that would be far less than 50 pct. of the college football fans in this market.

We are what we are. We've averaged being barely .500 for decades. We've averaged a little over 30K fans for decades unless opposing fans show.

Thats similar to just about everyone else.

 

[Las Panteras]

this thread is fantastic on multiple fronts.

Not the least of which is the mention of Hydrox cookies from the OP

Simply outstanding.......

 

[Saboteur]

this thread is fantastic on multiple fronts.

Not the least of which is the mention of Hydrox cookies from the OP

Simply outstanding.......

You made my day. Now I'm going to pop a Royal Crown Cola and call it a night.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Man the truth is brutal sometimes.

 

[McKee Place]

What it boils down to is the battle with the pro mentality. Pitt football sharing the same region and even the city name (and now even the facilities) with the Steelers (and the basketball team competing for attention with the Penguins in the winter).

This would actually be good things if those teams perennially were bad. But the opposite is true. They usually are near the top of their leagues every year. They've also produced enough championships to make that a expectation.

Nobody is going to be loyal to Pitt sports just because they're there, as would be true in a region or town without other sports teams. Our teams are seen as a competing product with the other local teams. The others reliably produce winning teams and opportunities to win championships (and occasionally deliver on that). Pitt doesn't, hardly ever, and it's more fun and cool to back winners.

It doesn't matter that the pro sports are set up to foster more opportunities for regular championships with drafts, salary caps, revenue sharing etc. While college sports is a filthy, cruel lord of the flies operation ... nobody cares. Results, results, what are the results.

And because other college sports teams are run like pro operations... all the ones around us especially...Pitt is expected to do the same. PSU, WVU, OSU, Notre Dame, Michigan, none of those truly care about academics or ethics, and every one knows it, and Pitt is either assumed to be the same (but simply bad at it) or setting itself on a high horse (and therefore guaranteed to lose). Some may even admire the latter. But they're not going to spend their money and time to patronize losers, no matter how admirable.

But most don't care whether we choose to get in the mud or not. Results are all that matter. Our results aren't good enough.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Again, why was pitt stadium empty in the mid 80s shortly after their golden years. It didnt just start recently.

As for bb (and every other sport) we treat it differently here than in true college towns whichs adds a roadblock to us ever turning things around.

It is what it is and always will be here.

For the same reason Dixon II was empty. If Pitt isn't a national contender, people aren't coming. It's a pro town. Nobody is going to show up for Capel unless we are Top 10, Top 15. Same for Pitt football.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Again, why was pitt stadium empty in the mid 80s shortly after their golden years. It didnt just start recently.

Nonsense. Pitt Stadium in the mid 80s had comparable attendance to Heinz Field today. That was over 30 years ago, when college football saw lower attendance numbers overall. Plus, Pitt puts in a much larger effort to get fans to games now. The result... same attendance. It should be more. The problem is that PITT decided not to make improvements to the stadium back then. They deemphasized the importance of the football program. Then they made one mistake after another stretching all the way to recent years. The fans didn't do that.

 

[ThePanthers]

For the same reason Dixon II was empty. If Pitt isn't a national contender, people aren't coming. It's a pro town. Nobody is going to show up for Capel unless we are Top 10, Top 15. Same for Pitt football.

So the OP is wrong and the Pitt fan does suck if that is the standard they hold to have to show up.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I had to unhide to who you were responding to. The majority of schools have multiple colors and logos now. And our fans wanted to fire narduzzi at the beginning of the year while also bitching about stability.

Pitt definitley has blame. Yet all the negative posted, what about the facility improvements even though donations are paltry. What about getting us a seat at the table with the p5. And this admin seems to be putting forward a serious effort to improve things further. There are many positives to go along with those negatives.

I guess I am on ignore, so this reply wont be seen by ThePanthers, but I'd like to know which schools that have "multiple colors and logos" have changed their MAIN logo and MAIN colors multiple times. Pitt's main helmet logo went from the script, to dinocat, to block, and back to script in less than a 20 year time frame. In addition, we have adjusted the standard colors multiple times, and made changes to the MAIN uniforms multiple times. What other schools have done that? The answer is NONE. Only Pitt had been this stupid, and the worst part is that MANY fans have been telling them this for a LONG time. It's a shame really, because it was so obvious all along that the dolts making these decisions were doing so at the detriment of the program. At least when Coke made their mistake, they admitted it quickly and fixed the problem. The Penguins knew enough to ditch their new gen Penguins logo after fewer than 10 years. Not Pitt. We double down on stupid time and time again. It really is amazing that they didn't just switch back to the script earlier. Fans starting conspiracy theories about the Steelers owning the script logo was a symptom of Pitt's ineptitude.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So the OP is wrong and the Pitt fan does suck if that is the standard they hold to have to show up.

I guess.

Pitt football has a weird fanbase in that we get pretty good attendance numbers for a mediocre program in a pro town. But there's no uptick when we have big games or big opponents (unless its PSU, WVU, ND). Like the defacto Coastal Championship vs UNC in 2015. The Miami game last year. #9 OK St, etc.

We'll get 35K to 40K no matter what but really no more than that no matter the circumstances

 

[DiehardPanther]

Pitt = BC - The difference being we play in a football stadium that seats 30k more people.

 

[upj87]

The blue bloods are the blue bloods because they didnt just have a great program for a 4 or 5 year period........they've consistently won and won big throughout the course of their history. But I'll tell you that even with the blue bloods, if they were to have a period of down years, they wouldnt be packing the stadium against lesser teams. Look at UPS and the number of no shows they have when they are not in contention for the B10 title and they are playing less attractive games.

Pitt had one relativley short run. During that period few games were attractive games as they played the temples and rutgers of the world. When they had decent games the stadium was filled. But that run wasnt long enough to build a loyal following.

Pittsburgh and most places support winners and an exciting product. It doesnt take long for paying customers to stop showing up to see a bad product.

When they had decent games the stadium was filled.. no it wasn't. Other than Penn State or Notre Dame or WVU it was not as it is not today...

 

[HailtoPitt]

When they had decent games the stadium was filled.. no it wasn't. Other than Penn State or Notre Dame or WVU it was not as it is not today...

It was almost exactly as it is today. Except, it should be greater with the increase in college football attendance over a 30 year period and the increased effort that Pitt now spends to get people to games.

 

[Saboteur]

What it boils down to is the battle with the pro mentality. Pitt football sharing the same region and even the city name (and now even the facilities) with the Steelers (and the basketball team competing for attention with the Penguins in the winter).

This would actually be good things if those teams perennially were bad. But the opposite is true. They usually are near the top of their leagues every year. They've also produced enough championships to make that a expectation.

Nobody is going to be loyal to Pitt sports just because they're there, as would be true in a region or town without other sports teams. Our teams are seen as a competing product with the other local teams. The others reliably produce winning teams and opportunities to win championships (and occasionally deliver on that). Pitt doesn't, hardly ever, and it's more fun and cool to back winners.

It doesn't matter that the pro sports are set up to foster more opportunities for regular championships with drafts, salary caps, revenue sharing etc. While college sports is a filthy, cruel lord of the flies operation ... nobody cares. Results, results, what are the results.

And because other college sports teams are run like pro operations... all the ones around us especially...Pitt is expected to do the same. PSU, WVU, OSU, Notre Dame, Michigan, none of those truly care about academics or ethics, and every one knows it, and Pitt is either assumed to be the same (but simply bad at it) or setting itself on a high horse (and therefore guaranteed to lose). Some may even admire the latter. But they're not going to spend their money and time to patronize losers, no matter how admirable.

But most don't care whether we choose to get in the mud or not. Results are all that matter. Our results aren't good enough.

"...While college sports is a filthy, cruel lord of the flies operation ... nobody cares. Results, results, what are the results."

The dirty secret is out! Well stated!

 

[Saboteur]

I guess.

Pitt football has a weird fanbase in that we get pretty good attendance numbers for a mediocre program in a pro town. But there's no uptick when we have big games or big opponents (unless its PSU, WVU, ND). Like the defacto Coastal Championship vs UNC in 2015. The Miami game last year. #9 OK St, etc.

We'll get 35K to 40K no matter what but really no more than that no matter the circumstances

I'd like to see what we did if we had a few 10 win seasons under our belts. The lack of excellence is virtually unprecedented.

 

[MyNameisJoe]

I'd like to know which schools that have "multiple colors and logos" have changed their MAIN logo and MAIN colors multiple times. Pitt's main helmet logo went from the script, to dinocat, to block, and back to script in less than a 20 year time frame. In addition, we have adjusted the standard colors multiple times, and made changes to the MAIN uniforms multiple times. What other schools have done that? The answer is NONE.

The answer is a lot of schools have changed uni's and logos over the years. Have you seen Oregon? Have you seen what Rutgers fans have been screaming about with their changes? Maryland experimented with those hideous uniforms.
Adjusting colors, logos - etc is not a problem that drives fans away, I'm sorry. If you stop liking, rooting for or going to games because your school changed freaking colors - I'm guessing you have larger problems

 

[McKee Place]

I'd like to see what we did if we had a few 10 win seasons under our belts. The lack of excellence is virtually unprecedented.

Absolutely. All the other stuff bandied here like logos or colors or whether the stadium is 4 miles away matter not at all. Always silly diversions from the real issue... underachievement vs established expectations of the region.

We have inherent challenges by the cruel system that requires cheating to be absolutely on top (or to get there in the first place at least .... then success sort of keeps feeding itself).

But we've also had opportunities to break out and always come up short.

2016 a big example. Best offense in America, arguably. Unbelievably unprecedented bad defense, however. And couldn't finish wins at OsU or UNC or the bowl. Should have had 11 wins. Major difference.

This season as well. Frankly amazingly come from the dead to win the division. But fell completely on our asses in the most embarrassing fashion in two subsequent national TV games. Needed to have a more sophisticated plan and effort to beat Miami, not an easy task to win there, but the team clearly went in resting on its laurels and got overwhelmed. Not saying you expect to beat Clemson at all, but don't look like complete shit in losing, getting laughed and mocked on the broadcast. Setting up a tough bowl that we are expected to lose as well.

This is the Pitt everyone knows... the one that snatches despair from the jaws of ecstacy. Largely self imposed in most cases

 

[HailtoPitt]

The answer is a lot of schools have changed uni's and logos over the years. Have you seen Oregon? Have you seen what Rutgers fans have been screaming about with their changes? Maryland experimented with those hideous uniforms.
Adjusting colors, logos - etc is not a problem that drives fans away, I'm sorry. If you stop liking, rooting for or going to games because your school changed freaking colors - I'm guessing you have larger problems

Those changes don't drive most fans away, but they certainly cause plenty of frustration. Maryland's unis have been ugly as sin. Oregon mostly maintain their O logo, with various one offs, but that is Oregon's thing... to mix it up. Anyone else is just copying. Rutgers has the 'R' I believe, and I think they have been more consistent than Pitt.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I guess.

Pitt football has a weird fanbase in that we get pretty good attendance numbers for a mediocre program in a pro town. But there's no uptick when we have big games or big opponents (unless its PSU, WVU, ND). Like the defacto Coastal Championship vs UNC in 2015. The Miami game last year. #9 OK St, etc.

We'll get 35K to 40K no matter what but really no more than that no matter the circumstances

We had more people for Pitt-Cinci in 2009 than the Steelers did on Sunday. The reason? It was a championship game for the Big East. Winner takes all. Pittsburgh fans don't understand middle of the season "de-facto" championship games. It has to be black and white since this is a pro town. I guarantee that if the ACC championship was played at Heinz last week there would have been 60k in attendance. That's what this city understands.

 

[Delpanther]

Again, why was pitt stadium empty in the mid 80s shortly after their golden years. It didnt just start recently.

As for bb (and every other sport) we treat it differently here than in true college towns whichs adds a roadblock to us ever turning things around.

It is what it is and always will be here.

We told you why; you ignore history or don’t know it. In either case you’re completely off base.

I had to unhide to who you were responding to. The majority of schools have multiple colors and logos now. And our fans wanted to fire narduzzi at the beginning of the year while also bitching about stability.

Pitt definitley has blame. Yet all the negative posted, what about the facility improvements even though donations are paltry. What about getting us a seat at the table with the p5. And this admin seems to be putting forward a serious effort to improve things further. There are many positives to go along with those negatives.

We're only 2 years removed from this administration having hired the worst HC in college BB

What it boils down to is the battle with the pro mentality. Pitt football sharing the same region and even the city name (and now even the facilities) with the Steelers (and the basketball team competing for attention with the Penguins in the winter).

This would actually be good things if those teams perennially were bad. But the opposite is true. They usually are near the top of their leagues every year. They've also produced enough championships to make that a expectation.

Nobody is going to be loyal to Pitt sports just because they're there, as would be true in a region or town without other sports teams. Our teams are seen as a competing product with the other local teams. The others reliably produce winning teams and opportunities to win championships (and occasionally deliver on that). Pitt doesn't, hardly ever, and it's more fun and cool to back winners.

It doesn't matter that the pro sports are set up to foster more opportunities for regular championships with drafts, salary caps, revenue sharing etc. While college sports is a filthy, cruel lord of the flies operation ... nobody cares. Results, results, what are the results.

And because other college sports teams are run like pro operations... all the ones around us especially...Pitt is expected to do the same. PSU, WVU, OSU, Notre Dame, Michigan, none of those truly care about academics or ethics, and every one knows it, and Pitt is either assumed to be the same (but simply bad at it) or setting itself on a high horse (and therefore guaranteed to lose). Some may even admire the latter. But they're not going to spend their money and time to patronize losers, no matter how admirable.

But most don't care whether we choose to get in the mud or not. Results are all that matter. Our results aren't good enough.

Michigan and Notre Dame are ranked academically above Pitt and Ohio State is ranked comparable to Pitt. Any suggestion that those schools askew academics is therefore completely inaccurate. It would be accurate to say that the schools you mention place a higher priority on athletics than does Pitt and have managed their athletics programs more effectively than has Pitt.

 

[pitt-girl]

Explain basketball then. 15 fantastic years and then everyone is gone at the first sign of trouble. And this is with the lowest donations to help support and keep up with the programs you are comparing to.

And the main issue is you are viewing it as a business where true college towns such as Columbus, Happy Valley, Morgantown view it as a passion, almost a religion (not saying it si good or bad). But that is why they are consistently successful.

Do 4 and 5 star kids want to come to half empty stadiums and play? No. That is a huge aspect in trying to build a program. It's not a professional sport where you have salary caps and can sign players.

Decide if you want to come or not, but just realize it's not helping matters one bit if you stay away or do not donate.

Pitt basketball fans suffered from serious ennui. There were some here who correctly prophesied this would happen. The bar is raised and you lose sight of the forest through the trees. Obviously after the serious crash back down, most have begun to respect the incredible, sustained success of Dixon. We can only cross our fingers and hope to get back to that level.

Re: football, you (not "you" specifically) think PITT is any different than most of the other P5 programs out there? They ALL are chasing the promised land, but it seems to only happen to the same teams over and over and over. We are not unique in the pursuit of the best players and more wins and conference championships. I would argue that programs like Nebraska that have HUGE support and somehow still fall short would actually be more disheartening than here where donation $$ is among the lowest in the ACC.

The conundrum: "I will only donate when I see success".

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

The conundrum: "I will only donate when I see success".

Kind of unique to Pitt. Contrast that with Auburn's mentality when they were down...."I'll contribute more in order to make things better and get a new coach who will win" And those that aren't giving at Auburn are most probably giving to the bagmen instead.

And yeah, speaking of teams still chasing the holy grail, how about Tennessee? Goes to show you 100K strong doesn't guarantee anything. I think their record is worse than ours since Fulmers last season (2008 or so?), and what a sh*t show of coaches they brought in. Funny they were so desperate this time they turn to an assistant of their bitter rival with no ties to their school in hopes of waking up the ghosts.

 

[FIVE4PITT]

Put the blame in the Pitt administration where is surely belongs over the years. IT starts at the top!

 

[McKee Place]

Kind of unique to Pitt. Contrast that with Auburn's mentality when they were down...."I'll contribute more in order to make things better and get a new coach who will win" And those that aren't giving at Auburn are most probably giving to the bagmen instead.

And yeah, speaking of teams still chasing the holy grail, how about Tennessee? Goes to show you 100K strong doesn't guarantee anything. I think their record is worse than ours since Fulmers last season (2008 or so?), and what a sh*t show of coaches they brought in. Funny they were so desperate this time they turn to an assistant of their bitter rival with no ties to their school in hopes of waking up the ghosts.

Auburn fans know their program will pay a Cam Newton 6 figures to reverse their misfortune.

At Pitt their donation money starts a Lacroix or whatever it is program

Those are exaggerations to a degree (well, not for the Auburn case; fans would expect, and it would happen, that their money would be directly pumped into efforts for winning football).

For the second, that's a slight exaggeration; nobody begrudges other sports. But donors on the Auburn level of money would absolutely want it applied directly to producing a football winner, (or basketball, depending on main interest).

And that means applying it to the established business practices of other winners. That it'll buy the better HC. Keep the best staff. Fund the hot recruiter. Heaven forbid, that it might line a few recruits pockets, since that absolutely is what it takes.

Not because that's 'admirable' but because all the schools that succeed do that.

But we know that won't happen at Pitt.
We dunno where the money would go, but since 1982, we know it ain't being spent that way.