The state of our Panther Sports in 2024

[latz66]

2023-2024

What in the world happened here? I really thought we were trending upwards with our Olympic Sports but now Im not so certain.

I understand we are bringing in new coaches in WBB, Softball, Gymnastics but this resume looks TERRIBLE right now.

I also understand that most only care about Football and Basketball but this overall state of our sports teams has to be one of the worst at Power 4 conference level.

I am going to assume Football gets back to at least AVG if not very good next year.

Im not so sure about everything else. Can our soccer teams continue the level of success we have had recently? I dont know enough about our player pool if thats the case and would like some people that follow it more closely to fill me in on the state of those programs.


Great
1. Volleyball - Cream of the crop. Final 4 appearance. Should be staying at this level for now.
2. Women's Soccer - Elite 8 - Best ever if Im not mistaken.

Pretty Good
3. Mens Soccer - NCAA 1st Round. Dissapointing compared to previous yr's Final 4 appearance
4. Mens Basketball - 22-11 . Bad Start/ Fantastic Finish - Got screwed for NCAA tourney

Average
Wrestling - Top 25 ( but how hard can that be, their arent many schools that have wrestling) . 4th out of 6th in ACC

Below Average
Gymnastics - 3rd out of 4 teams in ACC (6-8 overall)
Cross Country - Men 9th Women 12th in ACC
Swimming & Diving Men 7th Women 10th in ACC
Indoor Track - Men 12th in ACC Women 10th in ACC


Awful
Football - 3-9 (3rd from LAST in ACC)
Baseball - Currently LAST
Womens Basketball - Next to LAST
Womens Lacrosse - Currrently LAST
Softball - Currently LAST

TBD Outdoor Track.

 

[dan15701]

2023-2024

What in the world happened here? I really thought we were trending upwards with our Olympic Sports but now Im not so certain.

I understand we are bringing in new coaches in WBB, Softball, Gymnastics but this resume looks TERRIBLE right now.

I also understand that most only care about Football and Basketball but this overall state of our sports teams has to be one of the worst at Power 4 conference level.

I am going to assume Football gets back to at least AVG if not very good next year.

Im not so sure about everything else. Can our soccer teams continue the level of success we have had recently? I dont know enough about our player pool if thats the case and would like some people that follow it more closely to fill me in on the state of those programs.


Great
1. Volleyball - Cream of the crop. Final 4 appearance. Should be staying at this level for now.
2. Women's Soccer - Elite 8 - Best ever if Im not mistaken.

Pretty Good
3. Mens Soccer - NCAA 1st Round. Dissapointing compared to previous yr's Final 4 appearance
4. Mens Basketball - 22-11 . Bad Start/ Fantastic Finish - Got screwed for NCAA tourney

Average
Wrestling - Top 25 ( but how hard can that be, their arent many schools that have wrestling) . 4th out of 6th in ACC

Below Average
Gymnastics - 3rd out of 4 teams in ACC (6-8 overall)
Cross Country - Men 9th Women 12th in ACC
Swimming & Diving Men 7th Women 10th in ACC
Indoor Track - Men 12th in ACC Women 10th in ACC


Awful
Football - 3-9 (3rd from LAST in ACC)
Baseball - Currently LAST
Womens Basketball - Next to LAST
Womens Lacrosse - Currrently LAST
Softball - Currently LAST

TBD Outdoor Track.

Wrestling should be under the awful category as finishing 26 tied with power house Lock Haven is unacceptable. With the amount of talent in PA there is no excuse to finish outside the top 15. They didn't even put a single wrestler in the blood round.

Women's Lacrosse is an incomplete. They are only entering their third season so it unreasonable to expect them to be competing at a high level especially in a conference such as the ACC in women's lacrosse.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Men's soccer: as long as Vidovich stays at Pitt, the program is at the top of the Pitt athletic department. 2 College Cups in the last 4 years. Elite Eight in another. 5 straight NCAA appearances for a program that beforehand and had 2 total NCAA appearances back in the 1960s.

Only volleyball has been better. Women's soccer is just hitting its stride...both men's and women's soccer were among the worst, if not the very worst power conference soccer programs before Vidovich and Waldrum arrived. Those three sports are unaguably the stars of the athletic department at this time.

Football: let's hope 2023 was an anomaly. This is by far the most important sport at Pitt and it isn't even close. If they don't get the ship righted, success in any other sport will be meaningless in the scheme of things.

Men's hoops has had no postseason in 7 of the last 8 years. Sorry, that is not good. Things are trending up, but you can't say that program is safely back or has come anywhere near recovering yet.

Women's hoops is an absolute mess, but is in coaching year 1.

Wrestling is disappointing, and dangerously close to below average if it isn't already there yet. It has fallen way behind NC State and Virginia Tech, and is close to falling behind UNC, in a conference it should be competing for championships in.

Swimming & Diving is in coaching year 2. The truth of this is when you look at how absolutely stacked the ACC is, and is going to be with next years additions, it is a loooong climb...

In the recently completed 2024 women's NCAA championships, here were the team finishes:
1. UVA; 3. Stanford; 4. Louisville; 5. NC State; 10. UNC; 11. Cal; 20. VT; 21. Duke; 22. Miami; 32. FSU; 39. GT
There were 11 teams in the ACC this year...Pitt finished 10th.... and I think you can see why.

On the men's side, NCAAs are just starting today, but here are the current rankings:
3. Cal, 4. NC State; 5. Stanford; 11. Notre Dame; 13. VT; 14. Louisville; 17. UVA; 18. FSU; 25. GT; 26. SMU
Pitt has five swimmers and a diver that qualified for NCAAs and has flirted with the top 25...it finished 7th out of 11 in ACCs, right behind #18 FSU. It is getting close to being a top 25 program, but the ACC will be more brutal than ever next year, and a top 25 program but in the ACC that means you could still finish in the bottom third of the conference.

Gymnanstics....1st year coach with a LOT to do...they are ranked 41st....I'd put them more than below average. They tied for 3rd (last) at ACCs with UNC. Clemon's program is in their first year and finished ahead of both. The ACC is not good. Pitt is a long way off from the top 25 .

Lax...new program with a lot to do in the nation's toughtest conference. BC and Syracuse were in the Final 4; ND and UNC in the Elite 8; and UVA was in the field. But in year 3 there is still only one total win in conference play (and that occured in year 1). This is Heather's baby, and so far it is a pretty ugly one, with little evidence of progress thus far.

Softball is in year one after Heather blew up Holly Aprile's competitive program and fired her terrible hand-picked successor. Healther completely ownes this mess.

Baseball has been a borderline NCAA team recently...but not this year. The ACC is loaded, but Pitt is surprisingly bad. Hopefully more of an anomaly, but it isn't trending well.

XC hasn't had a ranked team since the early 90s. It is a departmental afterthought, along with T&F. Until they get any sort of facilities, and they will still lack an outdoor track even after the indoor facility is built, there is no way anyone can expect them to be competitive. T&F has actually done more than you'd expect considering its resources...and those would be among the worst in all D1.

 

[PittMBA]

Men's soccer: as long as Vidovich stays at Pitt, the program is at the top of the Pitt athletic department. 2 College Cups in the last 4 years. Elite Eight in another. 5 straight NCAA appearances for a program that beforehand and had 2 total NCAA appearances back in the 1960s.

Only volleyball has been better. Women's soccer is just hitting its stride...both men's and women's soccer were among the worst, if not the very worst power conference soccer programs before Vidovich and Waldrum arrived. Those three sports are unaguably the stars of the athletic department at this time.

Football: let's hope 2023 was an anomaly. This is by far the most important sport at Pitt and it isn't even close. If they don't get the ship righted, success in any other sport will be meaningless in the scheme of things.

Men's hoops has had no postseason in 7 of the last 8 years. Sorry, that is not good. Things are trending up, but you can't say that program is safely back or has come anywhere near recovering yet.

Women's hoops is an absolute mess, but is in coaching year 1.

Wrestling is disappointing, and dangerously close to below average if it isn't already there yet. It has fallen way behind NC State and Virginia Tech, and is close to falling behind UNC, in a conference it should be competing for championships in.

Swimming & Diving is in coaching year 2. The truth of this is when you look at how absolutely stacked the ACC is, and is going to be with next years additions, it is a loooong climb...

In the recently completed 2024 women's NCAA championships, here were the team finishes:
1. UVA; 3. Stanford; 4. Louisville; 5. NC State; 10. UNC; 11. Cal; 20. VT; 21. Duke; 22. Miami; 32. FSU; 39. GT
There were 11 teams in the ACC this year...Pitt finished 10th.... and I think you can see why.

On the men's side, NCAAs are just starting today, but here are the current rankings:
3. Cal, 4. NC State; 5. Stanford; 11. Notre Dame; 13. VT; 14. Louisville; 17. UVA; 18. FSU; 25. GT; 26. SMU
Pitt has five swimmers and a diver that qualified for NCAAs and has flirted with the top 25...it finished 7th out of 11 in ACCs, right behind #18 FSU. It is getting close to being a top 25 program, but the ACC will be more brutal than ever next year, and a top 25 program but in the ACC that means you could still finish in the bottom third of the conference.

Gymnanstics....1st year coach with a LOT to do...they are ranked 41st....I'd put them more than below average. They tied for 3rd (last) at ACCs with UNC. Clemon's program is in their first year and finished ahead of both. The ACC is not good. Pitt is a long way off from the top 25 .

Lax...new program with a lot to do in the nation's toughtest conference. BC and Syracuse were in the Final 4; ND and UNC in the Elite 8; and UVA was in the field. But in year 3 there is still only one total win in conference play (and that occured in year 1). This is Heather's baby, and so far it is a pretty ugly one, with little evidence of progress thus far.

Softball is in year one after Heather blew up Holly Aprile's competitive program and fired her terrible hand-picked successor. Healther completely ownes this mess.

Baseball has been a borderline NCAA team recently...but not this year. The ACC is loaded, but Pitt is surprisingly bad. Hopefully more of an anomaly, but it isn't trending well.

XC hasn't had a ranked team since the early 90s. It is a departmental afterthought, along with T&F. Until they get any sort of facilities, and they will still lack an outdoor track even after the indoor facility is built, there is no way anyone can expect them to be competitive. T&F has actually done more than you'd expect considering its resources...and those would be among the worst in all D1.

In fairness- but for declining the NIT, the men’s basketball program is effectively a back to back postseason program .

 

[CrazyPaco]

In fairness- but for declining the NIT, the men’s basketball program is effectively a back to back postseason program .

It isn't fairness to give credit for something they don't have. They haven't come close to cracking the top 25. They didn't make the NCAA. They aren't in the NIT. Almost doesn't count, and neither does sour grapes. There is no credit for not playing in the annals of basketball history.

We'll see what happens this off season. Even if everyone we want back, comes back, bad things, like injuries, can change entire outlooks. You never know what is around the corner, further underscoring why it was dumb to refuse a postseason invite instead of taking the opportunity to do what Georgia, Seton Hall, Utah, and Indiana State have.

 

[mike412]

Women's Lacrosse is an incomplete. They are only entering their third season so it unreasonable to expect them to be competing at a high level especially in a conference such as the ACC in women's lacrosse.

I’m not sure how valid an incomplete is. The ACC is at least as strong a softball conference as it is a lacrosse conference. Clemson started playing softball two years ago, and has made the NCAA regionals both years.

I don’t know much about lacrosse, but I do know someone who does, and he is very disappointed with the lack of improvement. He believes by hiring a Canadian coach, Heather thought they could import some top Canadian talent. That hasn’t happened and the lack of long-standing connections with American club and high school
programs has hurt there. He says this team is no better than the team from year 1 and the freshman talent just isn’t there.

 

[mike412]

Volleyball is the pinnacle program. That is undeniable. However, I think Waldrum’s women’s soccer program is more stable than the men’s program under Vidovich.

Waldrum recruits nationally, with a sprinkling of international players. He is fortunate that local HS programs turn out excellent players like Cofield and Shupansky and he has been able to keep some of them home. That should improve after the Elite Eight finish.

Vidovich recruits internationally. For three years prior to this past season, he hit the lottery. But, all of those players now are gone and the new recruits he brought in the past two seasons have not been at the same level. We don’t know what the roster will look like this year because we don’t know who he will get internationally. His recruits from two years ago got the chance to start last season and were comparatively disappointing.

When we beat Georgetown two years ago to get to the Elite Eight, I posted that even though we won, if I had my druthers I would build a program the way Georgetown did, with 19 homegrown players and a small sprinkling of international talent. I still prefer that and I think Waldrum’s program is more stable. On the other hand, Vidovich can catch lightning in a bottle and win it all some year.

Softball, Crazy Paco is right on. Heather destroyed the competitive program that Aprile had built in one horrendous move, compounded that disaster by keeping her horrible hire at least two years too long, then further compounded it, according to reports, by meeting with the team and asking them to not enter the transfer portal until they had a chance to meet with the new coach who she promised to have in place by a specified date, then not having a coach in place by that date resulting in almost every player in any kind of demand entering the portal, then hiring a coach so late that the transfer portal was almost barren by the time she was hired and she was forced to assemble a pitching staff without one arm which can win in the ACC.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

2023-2024

What in the world happened here? I really thought we were trending upwards with our Olympic Sports but now Im not so certain.

I understand we are bringing in new coaches in WBB, Softball, Gymnastics but this resume looks TERRIBLE right now.

I also understand that most only care about Football and Basketball but this overall state of our sports teams has to be one of the worst at Power 4 conference level.

I am going to assume Football gets back to at least AVG if not very good next year.

Im not so sure about everything else. Can our soccer teams continue the level of success we have had recently? I dont know enough about our player pool if thats the case and would like some people that follow it more closely to fill me in on the state of those programs.


Great
1. Volleyball - Cream of the crop. Final 4 appearance. Should be staying at this level for now.
2. Women's Soccer - Elite 8 - Best ever if Im not mistaken.

Pretty Good
3. Mens Soccer - NCAA 1st Round. Dissapointing compared to previous yr's Final 4 appearance
4. Mens Basketball - 22-11 . Bad Start/ Fantastic Finish - Got screwed for NCAA tourney

Average
Wrestling - Top 25 ( but how hard can that be, their arent many schools that have wrestling) . 4th out of 6th in ACC

Below Average
Gymnastics - 3rd out of 4 teams in ACC (6-8 overall)
Cross Country - Men 9th Women 12th in ACC
Swimming & Diving Men 7th Women 10th in ACC
Indoor Track - Men 12th in ACC Women 10th in ACC


Awful
Football - 3-9 (3rd from LAST in ACC)
Baseball - Currently LAST
Womens Basketball - Next to LAST
Womens Lacrosse - Currrently LAST
Softball - Currently LAST

TBD Outdoor Track.

Pitt volleyball - elite national program and will continue to be as long as Fisher is here. No worries here.

Soccer - men's and women's have elite coaches but are in a highly competitive situation meaning soccer, at least at the top level of D1 seems to stack talent equally beyond the top 3 or 4 programs. So I'd expect both programs to continue to be good but the nature of the sport and the "luck factor" in soccer wont always go our ways.

Men's basketball - back to Dixon 2 levels which is fine

Wrestling- has consistently underachieved relative to the local recruiting base

Gymnastics- who cares

Baseball/softball - very very hard to win a warm weather sport in a cold weather program. No real expectations here

Lacrosse - too early

 

[vkj91]

Volleyball is the pinnacle program. That is undeniable. However, I think Waldrum’s women’s soccer program is more stable than the men’s program under Vidovich.

Waldrum recruits nationally, with a sprinkling of international players. He is fortunate that local HS programs turn out excellent players like Cofield and Shupansky and he has been able to keep some of them home. That should improve after the Elite Eight finish.

Vidovich recruits internationally. For three years prior to this past season, he hit the lottery. But, all of those players now are gone and the new recruits he brought in the past two seasons have not been at the same level. We don’t know what the roster will look like this year because we don’t know who he will get internationally. His recruits from two years ago got the chance to start last season and were comparatively disappointing.

When we beat Georgetown two years ago to get to the Elite Eight, I posted that even though we won, if I had my druthers I would build a program the way Georgetown did, with 19 homegrown players and a small sprinkling of international talent. I still prefer that and I think Waldrum’s program is more stable. On the other hand, Vidovich can catch lightning in a bottle and win it all some year.

Softball, Crazy Paco is right on. Heather destroyed the competitive program that Aprile had built in one horrendous move, compounded that disaster by keeping her horrible hire at least two years too long, then further compounded it, according to reports, by meeting with the team and asking them to not enter the transfer portal until they had a chance to meet with the new coach who she promised to have in place by a specified date, then not having a coach in place by that date resulting in almost every player in any kind of demand entering the portal, then hiring a coach so late that the transfer portal was almost barren by the time she was hired and she was forced to assemble a pitching staff without one arm which can win in the ACC.

Women’s college soccer is about US players with a few hand picked international players
Men’s soccer is almost all international these days. That’s how all the big programs do it.

 

[latz66]

I sure wish Pitt would have went with Division 1 Hockey at some point in the past. Probably too expensive to do now but its one sport that maybe we would have had a shot at being quite good and maybe having decent support for as well. Granted it wouldnt be an ACC sponsored sport but who cares.

The ACC is obviously very VERY good at all the Olympic Sports and it will be extremely hard for us to compete going forward in a lot of these sports.

I get it with Wrestling. Seems odd in that PA /OH are wrestling hotbeds but we are also rans every year.

Well, hoping we keep it going with the soccer teams and of course Vball.

I like following the non revenue sports though and attend as many as I can in the NC area. Its certainly easier to follow now since almost all of the games/matches/meets etc are on ACCNX or ESPN+ . Just wish we could be a bit more competitive. #H2P

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I sure wish Pitt would have went with Division 1 Hockey at some point in the past. Probably too expensive to do now but its one sport that maybe we would have had a shot at being quite good and maybe having decent support for as well. Granted it wouldnt be an ACC sponsored sport but who cares.

The ACC is obviously very VERY good at all the Olympic Sports and it will be extremely hard for us to compete going forward in a lot of these sports.

I get it with Wrestling. Seems odd in that PA /OH are wrestling hotbeds but we are also rans every year.

Well, hoping we keep it going with the soccer teams and of course Vball.

I like following the non revenue sports though and attend as many as I can in the NC area. Its certainly easier to follow now since almost all of the games/matches/meets etc are on ACCNX or ESPN+ . Just wish we could be a bit more competitive. #H2P

They should cut T&F and add men's and women's hockey. Probably too expensive to rent PPG but werent the Pens & PPG pushing for it? They'd probably get a good deal. The thing with track is its a non-spectator sport. If they could get a good deal from PPG, maybe they can sell some tickets to eat into the scholarship costs. Also, its a TV sport whereas track isnt. Maybe ACCN would pick up some games.

 

[FreeportPanther]

The very bad Pitt Softball team actually won an ACC game!
Didn't believe it was possible but they beat Aprile's Louisville team!

Stunning upset for sure. May be their only ACC win all season!

 

[Evenattheturn]

Wrestling should be under the awful category as finishing 26 tied with power house Lock Haven is unacceptable. With the amount of talent in PA there is no excuse to finish outside the top 15. They didn't even put a single wrestler in the blood round.

Women's Lacrosse is an incomplete. They are only entering their third season so it unreasonable to expect them to be competing at a high level especially in a conference such as the ACC in women's lacrosse.

Do you follow wrestling? Lock Haven is a powerhouse. Next year they bring back Noto,Henson,and a slew of veterans in addition to 4 or 5 freshman studs,and I do mean studs. By the way the town of Lock Haven is called Mattown USA for a good reason.

 

[dan15701]

Do you follow wrestling? Lock Haven is a powerhouse. Next year they bring back Noto,Henson,and a slew of veterans in addition to 4 or 5 freshman studs,and I do mean studs. By the way the town of Lock Haven is called Mattown USA for a good reason.

Lock haven is not a powerhouse. They finished fourth at the MAC championships and went 7-11 in duel meets. They have a few good individuals but they only sent 3 wrestlers to nationals. When you lose 40-11 to Little Rick you are not a powerhouse. Noto was their only all American they have had since 2019. Their last national champion was 27 years ago. They maybe the best PSAC school but no one who actually follows the sport would confuse Lock Haven for a power house.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The very bad Pitt Softball team actually won an ACC game!
Didn't believe it was possible but they beat Aprile's Louisville team!

Stunning upset for sure. May be their only ACC win all season!

The coach they hired, Jenny Allard, has a lot of respect in the business. I'm sure she knows her stuff. The bigger question is recruiting moving from a long career in the Ivy to a power conference program. She inherited a straight up wreck so she is going to get some time. Always hard to know what will happen with a hire like this. There is definitely a cap on athletic programs in places like the Ivy, so sometimes they just want their shot at the "big" time and it pays off. I sort of liked the hire, and like it better than Hermanek, but no hire is ever guaranteed.

 

[ThePanthers]

When the vast majority of these sports have had no support for DECADES, it's hard to build something consistent and become a power house. Especially when you compete in a conference that houses a lot of power house schools in these sports.

While some sports have been a disappointment, I dont' feel Pitt is in a terrible spot either. We have shown we can compete now. It just isn't as consistent as some would like. I mean when Vidovich and Waldrum moves on, I don't think soccer will be at the level it has been over the past few years.

I think Victory Heights well help as well, especially in wrestling.

Football, we have been decent to good for the last 2 decades. I don't think a 3-9 season automatically puts us in the AWFUL category as a program.

Just my opinion.

 

[CrazyPaco]

When the vast majority of these sports have had no support for DECADES, it's hard to build something consistent and become a power house. Especially when you compete in a conference that houses a lot of power house schools in these sports.

While some sports have been a disappointment, I dont' feel Pitt is in a terrible spot either. We have shown we can compete now. It just isn't as consistent as some would like. I mean when Vidovich and Waldrum moves on, I don't think soccer will be at the level it has been over the past few years.

I think Victory Heights well help as well, especially in wrestling.

Football, we have been decent to good for the last 2 decades. I don't think a 3-9 season automatically puts us in the AWFUL category as a program.

Just my opinion.

What is interesting is that heading into the ACC, no one, and I mean absolutely no one, thought we be competing at the top in soccer. Pitt really had one of the worst soccer programs in all of D1 athletics; for sure among the power conferences. But when Vidovich landed in Pitt's lap, that changed EVERYTHING. And Waldrum doesn't come without Vidovich being at Pitt first.

Volleyball, I thought we had a chance to be competitive because Pitt has decent history in that sport, that Pitt was always competitive, and the ACC was not very strong, but I never would have anticipated where it is now as a perennial top 10 national program.

I also thought swimming & diving had a chance (and still do) because of Pitt's competitive history and its comparative good facilities, but the ACC is just so strong, and while Pitt has flirted with the top 25, it is just a crazy conference.

But if people had to pick an olympic sport that would have been the most competitive in the ACC, it probably would have been wrestling because of the natural advantages and history with Pitt wrestling. What happened to volleyball in the ACC is what I was hoping for with Pitt wrestling...dragging the ACC up. Being the NC State. And indeed, the first year of the ACC came with a regular season wrestling title. That is one reason wrestling has been disappointing. ACC wrestling should be led by Pitt.

 

[ThePanthers]

What is interesting is that heading into the ACC, no one, and I mean absolutely no one, thought we be competing at the top in soccer. Pitt really had one of the worst soccer programs in all of D1 athletics; for sure among the power conferences. But when Vidovich landed in Pitt's lap, that changed EVERYTHING. And Waldrum doesn't come without Vidovich being at Pitt first.

Volleyball, I thought we had a chance to be competitive because Pitt has decent history in that sport, that Pitt was always competitive, and the ACC was not very strong, but I never would have anticipated where it is now as a perennial top 10 national program.

I also thought swimming & diving had a chance (and still do) because of Pitt's competitive history and its comparative good facilities, but the ACC is just so strong, and while Pitt has flirted with the top 25, it is just a crazy conference.

But if people had to pick an olympic sport that would have been the most competitive in the ACC, it probably would have been wrestling because of the natural advantages and history with Pitt wrestling. What happened to volleyball in the ACC is what I was hoping for with Pitt wrestling...dragging the ACC up. Being the NC State. And indeed, the first year of the ACC came with a regular season wrestling title. That is one reason wrestling has been disappointing. ACC wrestling should be led by Pitt.

Agreed on everything

 

[pittdan77]

What is interesting is that heading into the ACC, no one, and I mean absolutely no one, thought we be competing at the top in soccer. Pitt really had one of the worst soccer programs in all of D1 athletics; for sure among the power conferences. But when Vidovich landed in Pitt's lap, that changed EVERYTHING. And Waldrum doesn't come without Vidovich being at Pitt first.

Volleyball, I thought we had a chance to be competitive because Pitt has decent history in that sport, that Pitt was always competitive, and the ACC was not very strong, but I never would have anticipated where it is now as a perennial top 10 national program.

I also thought swimming & diving had a chance (and still do) because of Pitt's competitive history and its comparative good facilities, but the ACC is just so strong, and while Pitt has flirted with the top 25, it is just a crazy conference.

But if people had to pick an olympic sport that would have been the most competitive in the ACC, it probably would have been wrestling because of the natural advantages and history with Pitt wrestling. What happened to volleyball in the ACC is what I was hoping for with Pitt wrestling...dragging the ACC up. Being the NC State. And indeed, the first year of the ACC came with a regular season wrestling title. That is one reason wrestling has been disappointing. ACC wrestling should be led by Pitt.

Wrestling is a hard one. Do we know how many legit local D1 wrestlers are going elsewhere? That would be a good place to start. Next question would be, what is the program missing. Just the coach? Recruiting? Facilities?

Volleyball has exactly the opposite circumstances. Not many local top D1 athletes. Pitt doesn't even seem to recruit into the adjacent Ohio Valley or Chesapeake regions, which have some decent talent. Just head straight for the best VB regions. Facility hasn't been great. Is it just all Fisher? Better financial support?

 

[FreeportPanther]

Wrestling is a hard one. Do we know how many legit local D1 wrestlers are going elsewhere? That would be a good place to start. Next question would be, what is the program missing. Just the coach? Recruiting? Facilities?

Volleyball has exactly the opposite circumstances. Not many local top D1 athletes. Pitt doesn't even seem to recruit into the adjacent Ohio Valley or Chesapeake regions, which have some decent talent. Just head straight for the best VB regions. Facility hasn't been great. Is it just all Fisher? Better financial support?

Actually some of the better local wrestlers ARE at Pitt. Recruited the WPIAL pretty solidly lately.

 

[pittdan77]

Actually some of the better local wrestlers ARE at Pitt. Recruited the WPIAL pretty solidly lately.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything but are these kids considered top prospects? I'm just trying to understand where the program is falling down.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Not trying to be a jerk or anything but are these kids considered top prospects? I'm just trying to understand where the program is falling down.

They were State champs in HS. Had other offers from big programs.
IDK what the problem is?
Remember, they are getting a new venue to wrestle in. Part of the VB renovation. Building will be multipurpose.

 

[pittdan77]

They were State champs in HS. Had other offers from big programs.
IDK what the problem is?
Remember, they are getting a new venue to wrestle in. Part of the VB renovation. Building will be multipurpose.

Yes. The new building should help. Hopefully this will improve.

 

[mike412]

Women’s college soccer is about US players with a few hand picked international players
Men’s soccer is almost all international these days. That’s how all the big programs do it.

You want to tell Indiana and Georgetown that they aren’t big-time men’s soccer programs?

 

[mike412]

Actually some of the better local wrestlers ARE at Pitt. Recruited the WPIAL pretty solidly lately.

Personally, I think WPIAL wrestling is overrated insofar as producing top college wrestlers is concerned. Yes, it is the home of some of the best high school wrestling in the country, but it isn’t producing NCAA All-Americans in quantity. And, with the exception of Nino, who committed before Gavin was hired, those it has produced aren’t coming to Pitt. This year, two freshmen from the WPIAL made AA: Rocco Walsh from Waynesburg and Ty Watters from North Allegheny. At tOSU and WVU.

Saenderson gets pretty much anyone he wants at PSU. He had two national champions from PA this year but neither is from the WPIAL. Other than Spencer Lee, who he didn’t get, has he even recruited anyone from the WPIAL in the past few years. (I assume he might have recruited Walsh and Pletcher but unsuccessfully.) Most of the top PA wrestlers these past few years, like the Hidleys, Starocci, Haines and Kasek just to name a few) haven’t been from the WPIAL.

I’m not saying the WPIAL doesn’t have great wrestling. It does. But, it hasn’t been producing NCAA AAs in quantity. And, I think the only WPIAL wrestlers in Pitt’s lineup who are even potential AAs are Stout and Pitzer. And, in my mind both are longshots.

There were people last year who said losing Walsh wasn’t that big a deal because we had Augustine and Heller already on the roster and losing Watters wasn’t a big deal because we had good wrestlers already here at 141 through 157. And, this year people have said the same thing about Gavin not yet signing any of the top PA kids in the 2024 and 2025 classes: we already have starters at those weights. Where could we have used them? Well, my thinking is that replacing guys who went 2-14 in the NCAAs against wrestlers who won at least 1 match isn’t a bad thing.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The very bad Pitt Softball team actually won an ACC game!
Didn't believe it was possible but they beat Aprile's Louisville team!

And they won both games of a doubleheader today at Boston College.

Don't look now, but they are no longer in last place! And they have as many wins as Aprile's Louisville team does in the ACC.









Of course they have played five more games than Louisville, so there is that.

 

[FreeportPanther]

And they won both games of a doubleheader today at Boston College.

Don't look now, but they are no longer in last place! And they have as many wins as Aprile's Louisville team does in the ACC.









Of course they have played five more games than Louisville, so there is that.V

Baby steps. BC is probably in the same boat with us and Cuse, talent wise. Cannon fodder for the southern warm weather schools.

 

[mike412]

To show you how far the softball program has to go, Danni Farris, who was the winning pitcher in the 6-5 victory, was signed as a 3B by the former coach. Looking at her evaluations by recruiting services on Google, all were focused on her as an infielder, either 1B or 3B. There were so few arms on the roster, she is pitching.

At least Allard recognizes the problem. She signed two high school pitchers in the early signing period, but neither is that highly rated. One is from a small school in Tennessee and the other from a small school in SE Ohio. One of the top junior pitchers in the country this year is in the WPIAL, but she committed to VT.

 

[pittchagg]

Softball has been playing better down the stretch, and have won two of the last three ACC weekend series. Seems like they’re on pace to qualify for the ACC tournament for the first time since 2018 with a solid weekend against last place NC State to finish the year.

 

[New York Panther]

Softball is in year one after Heather blew up Holly Aprile's competitive program

What exactly happened there?

 

[FreeportPanther]

What exactly happened there?

Crony hire. Not HL’s finest hour!

 

[New York Panther]

Crony hire. Not HL’s finest hour!

So she had to fire her crony?

 

[FreeportPanther]

So she had to fire her crony?

Let Aprile walk, hired her crony who proved to be a disaster.
Waited way too long to fire her, but finally had too after last year's disastrous season.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Softball has been playing better down the stretch, and have won two of the last three ACC weekend series. Seems like they’re on pace to qualify for the ACC tournament for the first time since 2018 with a solid weekend against last place NC State to finish the year.

If the season ended today they would actually be in. But they only play one more series and the other bad teams play two, so they all have more chances to win games.

Of course they are all bad too, so more games also means likely a lot more losses.

 

[vkj91]

You want to tell Indiana and Georgetown that they aren’t big-time men’s soccer programs?

Is your argument that it's not a trend? I believe its pushing 40% of players are international
Sweet 16
1. Marshall 24/29 83%
Notre Dame 6/34 18%
UNC 9/36 25%
Georgetown 0/29 0%
WVU 15/29 52%
SMU 9/32 28%
UVA 8/36 22%
UNH 16/33 48%
Clemson 11/32 34%
WFU 5/33 15%
Portland 7/33 21%
UCF 20/29 69%
UCLA 4/26 15%
Hofstra 18/30 60%

Duke 6/32 19%
Stanford 5/29 17%
Top 16 Seeds 163/502 32%

 

[mike412]

Is your argument that it's not a trend? I believe its pushing 40% of players are international
Sweet 16
1. Marshall 24/29 83%
Notre Dame 6/34 18%
UNC 9/36 25%
Georgetown 0/29 0%
WVU 15/29 52%
SMU 9/32 28%
UVA 8/36 22%
UNH 16/33 48%
Clemson 11/32 34%
WFU 5/33 15%
Portland 7/33 21%
UCF 20/29 69%
UCLA 4/26 15%
Hofstra 18/30 60%

Duke 6/32 19%
Stanford 5/29 17%
Top 16 Seeds 163/502 32%

You said in your initial post that men’s college soccer is “almost all international”

Is your argument that it's not a trend? I believe its pushing 40% of players are international
Sweet 16
1. Marshall 24/29 83%
Notre Dame 6/34 18%
UNC 9/36 25%
Georgetown 0/29 0%
WVU 15/29 52%
SMU 9/32 28%
UVA 8/36 22%
UNH 16/33 48%
Clemson 11/32 34%
WFU 5/33 15%
Portland 7/33 21%
UCF 20/29 69%
UCLA 4/26 15%
Hofstra 18/30 60%

Duke 6/32 19%
Stanford 5/29 17%
Top 16 Seeds 163/502 32%

You said in your initial post that men’s college soccer is “almost all international” these days and that “all the big time programs” are like that. That simply is not true, as the statistics you cited establish. I pointed out that Georgetown and Indiana, two recent national title Winners, don’t have international players on their teams. Both of their coaches are committed to winning with American players.

Of the 16 schools you listed that made the Sweet Sixteen this past season, only Marshall and perhaps Hofstra and UCF. could be classified as “almost all” international. Those 16 teams overall had 32% international players which is a significant number but nowhere near “almost all.”

Is it a trend? Absolutely. I think Vidovich has to do it because there isn’t much top caliber talent in Pitt’s natural recruiting area and he hasn’t yet established us as a national power where he can recruit nationally. Even if he could get more Americans, I think his teams will always be at least 50% foreign players, at least as long as he has the connections to recommend good European talent to him.

I think Waldron is likely to expand his recruiting territory as the program continues to improve. I would expect, and hope for, a couple of additional Nigerian players and maybe another Canadian or two. Until recently, there haven’t been a lot of European high schoolers with a lot of talent but the growth of the women’s’ leagues in Europe is changing that. Last year, Barcelona drew huge crowds for women’s matches played at Camp Nou and after they won the Champions League there was a huge celebration the next day in Plaça Jeaume, which is about 150 meters from where we live. There were tons of young girls there wearing Barcelona shirts. But, instead of the names of Messi and Pedro and Gavi on the back, they were women’s shirts with Bonmati and Putellas on the back. Some of those young girls will likely be potential recruits in a few more years.

 

[vkj91]

You said in your initial post that men’s college soccer is “almost all international”

You said in your initial post that men’s college soccer is “almost all international” these days and that “all the big time programs” are like that. That simply is not true, as the statistics you cited establish. I pointed out that Georgetown and Indiana, two recent national title Winners, don’t have international players on their teams. Both of their coaches are committed to winning with American players.

Of the 16 schools you listed that made the Sweet Sixteen this past season, only Marshall and perhaps Hofstra and UCF. could be classified as “almost all” international. Those 16 teams overall had 32% international players which is a significant number but nowhere near “almost all.”

Is it a trend? Absolutely. I think Vidovich has to do it because there isn’t much top caliber talent in Pitt’s natural recruiting area and he hasn’t yet established us as a national power where he can recruit nationally. Even if he could get more Americans, I think his teams will always be at least 50% foreign players, at least as long as he has the connections to recommend good European talent to him.

I think Waldron is likely to expand his recruiting territory as the program continues to improve. I would expect, and hope for, a couple of additional Nigerian players and maybe another Canadian or two. Until recently, there haven’t been a lot of European high schoolers with a lot of talent but the growth of the women’s’ leagues in Europe is changing that. Last year, Barcelona drew huge crowds for women’s matches played at Camp Nou and after they won the Champions League there was a huge celebration the next day in Plaça Jeaume, which is about 150 meters from where we live. There were tons of young girls there wearing Barcelona shirts. But, instead of the names of Messi and Pedro and Gavi on the back, they were women’s shirts with Bonmati and Putellas on the back. Some of those young girls will likely be potential recruits in a few more years.

“Almost all” was a poor choice of words and if I’m being honest, I was going by things I’ve been told by male soccer players who are friends with my daughters. At the club and college level, I am much more in tune with the women’s side because of them. Also, I was probably influenced by the fact my niece was playing at Marshall when men won the NC.