The Steelers Way - Head Coaches?

[Pitt79]

First I'm not saying right now fire Tomlin. So this is not about that, it's just about the Steelers Philosophy.

My questions for discussion are...

Why is it bad to fire a HC ever?

Why is it OK to fire coordinators and assistants? I mean if you call for Firing Fichnter, why aren't people asking "well who can you hire that's better?" like they do when someone says Fire Tomlin.

So, is it ever possible that the problem is the HC and not the assistants?

Why does the "Steelers Way" assume that the fix is never firing the HC and always firing the other coaches?

DISCUSS?

 

[HailToPitt725]

A few of my jumbled thoughts...

For me, the “Steeler Way” is about not rushing into “greener grass” decisions. When you have, statistically, one of the best head coaches in the NFL, it makes more sense (and is easier) to find the solution through smaller fixes (staff changes) than it is blowing it up. You’re more likely to find a good assistant coach than a good head coach because there’s more of them out there, which is why you don’t hear the “who can they hire” comment in this case. Also, mediocre head coaches can still make good assistant coaches but not the other way around. Example number one is Mike Munchak.

It’s also easier, in most cases, to replace a coordinator than, say, a quarterback or an entire side of the ball, which IMO is why there’s more calls to see change there first.

At the end of the day, this way of operating just works. They’ve taken their lumps (80’s, late 90s) but patience has typically been rewarded with good results. If you have the right guy for the job (which they have and have had since Noll) eventually they figure things out. I do believe that Tomlin will figure it out.

 

[wbrpanther]

First I'm not saying right now fire Tomlin. So this is not about that, it's just about the Steelers Philosophy.

My questions for discussion are...

Why is it bad to fire a HC ever?

Why is it OK to fire coordinators and assistants? I mean if you call for Firing Fichnter, why aren't people asking "well who can you hire that's better?" like they do when someone says Fire Tomlin.

So, is it ever possible that the problem is the HC and not the assistants?

Why does the "Steelers Way" assume that the fix is never firing the HC and always firing the other coaches?

DISCUSS?

Has something to do with hiring a great coach to begin with. The Steelers haven't fired a coach since 1969. But before that the job was like a revolving door. the Chief was terrible as an owner. He hired buddies and ex players and had great coaching turnover. when Dan took over operations things changed. He hired Chuck Noll then drafted Joe Greene in the same week. Then he adopted a policy of building thru the draft. Before that coaches like Buddy Parker traded away draft picks for established players. Hiring Chuck Noll then Bill Cower then Mike Tomlin was one thing. Sticking with them when you hit a bad streak was something else altogether.

 

[BFo8]

Another part of the reason for the longevity of Noll, Cowher, and Tomlin is based on the way the Steelers organization treats their head coaches, as there is very little chance of the coach himself leaving to take another job. They’d be a fool to even think about it, as the Steelers gig is pretty much considered a dream job in the coaching fraternity for the support they are given by the organization.

When the time comes and the Steelers job is open again they will have no shortage of people desiring the position.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Mike Tomlin is a good coach and I'd like to see him remain with the Steelers for a long time. His record for hiring assistants has been suspect over the last 5 or so years. Is he a bad judge of coaching talent or hamstrung by owners who don't want to spend big on coordinators (no idea what their salaries are)? Either way he needs to make great hires this off-season.

And I'd give Butler one more year. Overhaul the offensive staff this year, defense next year (if it needs it).

 

[HailToPitt725]

Mike Tomlin is a good coach and I'd like to see him remain with the Steelers for a long time. His record for hiring assistants has been suspect over the last 5 or so years. Is he a bad judge of coaching talent or hamstrung by owners who don't want to spend big on coordinators (no idea what their salaries are)? Either way he needs to make great hires this off-season.

And I'd give Butler one more year. Overhaul the offensive staff this year, defense next year (if it needs it).

This is a very good point. Maybe it’s because they also have the smallest coaching staff in the league, but I had no idea they had the smallest coaching payroll in the NFL.

The other thing is, why doesn’t he branch out and hire more coaches outside of the organization? Maybe this is also because of money, but the few that he has hired (Haley, Munchak, Dunbar, Austin) have been pretty good. With the exception of Bradley, of course.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

Well their last 3 coaches all came from defensive backgrounds. Obviously the HC had knowledge, input and ultimate responsibility for the offense. But I think most fans view the OC to have more autonomy than say the DC. So if the offense stinks like it did in the last part of the season, he is going to get more blame also.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I've never been a fan when they did hire nor have I been a fan during his tenure.

I think James Harrison's description of Tomlin is probably pretty accurate.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

I think James Harrison's description of Tomlin is probably pretty accurate.

He hands out envelopes of bounty cash for big hits?

 

[Pitt79]

Still, even a great coach can become stale, at some point can't the HC become the problem that needs to be removed? Everyone else on the team and coaching staff can be canned anytime but the coaches seat is never hot.

 

[Pitt79]

the Chief was terrible as an owner. He hired buddies and ex players and had great coaching turnover.

That is true, The Chief is iconic in Pittsburgh, all he did was start the team BY LUCK, because he won money, then for 40 years was a stumbling, bumbling, drunken idiot LOSER, his coaches where drinking buddies. It's just funny how he gets a statue for that! It wasn't based on performance. 0-1 in the playoffs between 1933-1972.

 

[Mikefln]

Mike Tomlin is a good coach and I'd like to see him remain with the Steelers for a long time. His record for hiring assistants has been suspect over the last 5 or so years. Is he a bad judge of coaching talent or hamstrung by owners who don't want to spend big on coordinators (no idea what their salaries are)? Either way he needs to make great hires this off-season.

And I'd give Butler one more year. Overhaul the offensive staff this year, defense next year (if it needs it).

The problem is I don't think he has ever hired a good assistant outside of Munchak. Every other good/great assistant he has had was inherited from Cowers staff. That has been a long time.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

He hands out envelopes of bounty cash for big hits?

I believe when asked to compare Tomlin to Belichick, he said there is no comparison when it comes to discipline and structure.

 

[HailToPitt725]

The problem is I don't think he has ever hired a good assistant outside of Munchak. Every other good/great assistant he has had was inherited from Cowers staff. That has been a long time.

I disagree. Todd Haley was solid and both Karl Dunbar and Teryl Austin have been very good. Also, Scottie Montgomery was his WR Coach before returning to the college ranks to serve as offensive coordinator at Duke and eventually head coach at East Carolina.

 

[Pitt79]

My main point is why is every member of the organization accountable for blame and dismissal every year, but never the head coach? Isn't it ever possible those other guys failed because of the HC, not in spite of?

 

[Burgh15]

Tomlin is a good coach who always has competitive teams. Without knowing the ins and outs why they haven't fired head coaches is it seems like they're willing to keep guys who have teams in playoff contention more often than not. They trust they can overcome a few bad seasons because they've had success. I get and I like Tomlin. I'm also disappointed looking back on a decade of wasted opportunities with all of the playoff failures. A new coach after early playoff failures could've capitalized into a title. Sometimes need a fresh message.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

The big issue in the Tomlin regime has been poor drafting in the secondary and having to spend five first rounders at linebacker since 2013. Only one was a bust, but after Shazier’s injury having to spend another first and trade a second and a third to move up for Bush. Those two picks traded could have helped elsewhere.

I definitely miss the Cowher days of finding linebackers late and as UDFA.

 

[PittPanther44]

Tomlin has the 4th best winning % all time for people coaching over 100 games. The list is Shula, Halas, Belichick.

So unless you get one of those guys, there is a realllllllllllly good chance you won’t win quite as much without him.

Doesn’t make him above reproach. All coaches make mistakes including him.

i do think AB/Bell/Shazier injury derailed a young core. But to rebuild out of that and still be pretty good, was an accomplishment.

The main miss was not addressing RB. They aren’t a cold weather team. They looked liked the team that was “coming north” this last month or two.

 

[PittPanther44]

Mike Tomlin is a good coach and I'd like to see him remain with the Steelers for a long time. His record for hiring assistants has been suspect over the last 5 or so years. Is he a bad judge of coaching talent or hamstrung by owners who don't want to spend big on coordinators (no idea what their salaries are)? Either way he needs to make great hires this off-season.

And I'd give Butler one more year. Overhaul the offensive staff this year, defense next year (if it needs it).

There is something to this. Might be too much loyalty to internal guys.

I’m sure the continuity helps, but it leaves you with mediocre guys.

To me it’s like college recruiting. You should be able to get elite guys if they know they are going to a place that wins. Tomlin hasn’t leveraged that.

 

[Burgh15]

i do think AB/Bell/Shazier injury derailed a young core. But to rebuild out of that and still be pretty good, was an accomplishment.

The Steelers really haven't had to rebuild, just retool or reload. The big thing is they've had a Hall of Fame QB throughout the duration of Tomlin's tenure with the exception of last year. He's a very good coach, but the playoffs are a different ballgame and his teams have not been getting in done. They've also had three straight years of late season collapses. That's concerning.

 

[BFo8]

Tomlin has the 4th best winning % all time for people coaching over 100 games. The list is Shula, Halas, Belichick.

So unless you get one of those guys, there is a realllllllllllly good chance you won’t win quite as much without him.

Doesn’t make him above reproach. All coaches make mistakes including him.

i do think AB/Bell/Shazier injury derailed a young core. But to rebuild out of that and still be pretty good, was an accomplishment.

The main miss was not addressing RB. They aren’t a cold weather team. They looked liked the team that was “coming north” this last month or two.

Wherever you saw that winning % list it is way off to put it mildly. Others ahead of Tomlin that have coached over 100 games are:

John Madden 103-32 .759
Vince Lombardi 96-34 .738
George Allen 116-47 .712
Blanton Collier 76-34 .688
Ray Flaherty 80-37 .684
Paul Brown 213-104 .672
Tony Dungy 139-69 .668

There are probably a few others as well that I missed.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

There are probably a few others as well that I missed.

He is 11th in winning percentage among people who have coached at least 100 games. The top 15 are:

Madden 103-32-7 .759
Lombardi 96-34-6 .738
Allen 116-47-5 .712
Collier 76-34-2 .688
Flaherty 80-37-5 .684
Halas 318-148-31 .682
Shula 328-156-6 .677
Belichick 280-136 .673
Brown 213-104-9 .672
Dungy 139-69 .668
Tomlin 145-78-1 .650
Seifert 114-62 .648
Payton 143-81 .638
Lambeau 226-132-22 .631
Reid 221-130-1 .629
Cowher 149-90-1 .623

 

[runshadyrun]

3 Playoff wins in the last 10 years? Three straight late season collapses. The Steeler stated goal is win the super bowl, not do good in the regular season. If that's the case, he has failed miserably.

 

[pbrad]

Cam Hayward said they were not prepared against the Browns. It is the head coaches job to get them prepared. Under Mike Tomlin they seem to take underdog teams too lightly and it comes back to bite them., especially in the playoffs.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

Tomlin is a good motivator and “player’s coach”. He’s an awful Gameday/clock management coach. Just feels like he’s getting stale. Can’t imagine he is there too many years after Ben leaves.