The USA Problem

[Fk_Pitt]

Imagine Gonzaga basketball only playing a weak conference schedule and not being able to step out of conference and push themselves against better teams to prepare them for The NCAA’s.

This is what we have with USA Soccer. Now that most of our team is playing in Europe at good clubs, the biggest thing holding us back is Concacaf.

SMF’s crazy idea of joining UEFA isn’t so bad.

We are rumored to be playing in Copa America in 2024. That is what we all want. That step out of Concacaf can help prepare our team against elite competition. But guess what? If a country wants to step out of their confederation and play in another tournament, club teams are not required to release players for international play if for example USA is a guest country in a foreign confederation tourney like Copa America , Africa League of Nations, or Euros.

No club is going to release players for such competitions. Why would they?? So we would be stuck sending MLS jabroni’s to Copa America and that’s not helping anyone.

So if we want to be more than a 2nd tier team in future world cups, we have to get out of Concacaf, or Concacaf is going to have to merge somehow with Comebol.

 

[noelr]

Fk you got your wish. Spain 86ed their coach.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Fk you got your wish. Spain 86ed their coach.

Oh wow! That’s interesting. But…US happy with Derp??

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Imagine Gonzaga basketball only playing a weak conference schedule and not being able to step out of conference and push themselves against better teams to prepare them for The NCAA’s.

This is what we have with USA Soccer. Now that most of our team is playing in Europe at good clubs, the biggest thing holding us back is Concacaf.

SMF’s crazy idea of joining UEFA isn’t so bad.

We are rumored to be playing in Copa America in 2024. That is what we all want. That step out of Concacaf can help prepare our team against elite competition. But guess what? If a country wants to step out of their confederation and play in another tournament, club teams are not required to release players for international play if for example USA is a guest country in a foreign confederation tourney like Copa America , Africa League of Nations, or Euros.

No club is going to release players for such competitions. Why would they?? So we would be stuck sending MLS jabroni’s to Copa America and that’s not helping anyone.

So if we want to be more than a 2nd tier team in future world cups, we have to get out of Concacaf, or Concacaf is going to have to merge somehow with Comebol.

Joining UEFA really makes a lot of sense for everyone if you think about it. I truly believe UEFA would take them and I believe its the USSF who doesn't want it because they are afraid they wont qualify for World Cups, and they absolutely may miss some. I think they are content with US soccer where it is and relying on European kids born to American soldiers and sons of former American pros to get us to the Round of 16. That's the ceiling and they are excited. They dont want to or believe soccer could ever overtake baseball and basketball not just in terms of viewership but in terms of participation. There are only a handful of "traditional" (bad use of the word here) American kids choosing soccer past age 9 or 10. They are still going to football, baseball, basketball. The ones that stick with it are the ones with immigrant parents or the ones whose parents played professionally or D1. They need that elite athlete who is the star football and basketball player but chose soccer. Chad OchoCinco is an example of a guy who could have been world class if he gave up the other sports at 11 or 12. OBJ is another. The ONLY way that those kids choose soccer is if the domestic league is world class and they have the Messi or Ronaldo of that era coming into their city every year. And the only way to do that is if they join UEFA.

I also thought about the CONMEBOL merger. The Carribbean has thought about breaking off. It could work well if they did and got 1 WC bid and sent 1 to the playoff (like Oceania will do in 26) and the had the US, Canada, Mexico, and Central America join Conmebol.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Joining UEFA really makes a lot of sense for everyone if you think about it. I truly believe UEFA would take them and I believe its the USSF who doesn't want it because they are afraid they wont qualify for World Cups, and they absolutely may miss some. I think they are content with US soccer where it is and relying on European kids born to American soldiers and sons of former American pros to get us to the Round of 16. That's the ceiling and they are excited. They dont want to or believe soccer could ever overtake baseball and basketball not just in terms of viewership but in terms of participation. There are only a handful of "traditional" (bad use of the word here) American kids choosing soccer past age 9 or 10. They are still going to football, baseball, basketball. The ones that stick with it are the ones with immigrant parents or the ones whose parents played professionally or D1. They need that elite athlete who is the star football and basketball player but chose soccer. Chad OchoCinco is an example of a guy who could have been world class if he gave up the other sports at 11 or 12. OBJ is another. The ONLY way that those kids choose soccer is if the domestic league is world class and they have the Messi or Ronaldo of that era coming into their city every year. And the only way to do that is if they join UEFA.

I also thought about the CONMEBOL merger. The Carribbean has thought about breaking off. It could work well if they did and got 1 WC bid and sent 1 to the playoff (like Oceania will do in 26) and the had the US, Canada, Mexico, and Central America join Conmebol.

What I’m thinking about now is world ranking and how that impacts our pot position for world cups. If we step up in competition but our world rank slides, getting out of the group becomes harder.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What I’m thinking about now is world ranking and how that impacts our pot position for world cups. If we step up in competition but our world rank slides, getting out of the group becomes harder.

They wouldn’t even make all the World Cups. You cant worry about that. You need in UEFA so that MLS would play in Champions League, making it a Top 3, maybe eventually Top 2 league. That strengthens the American pool of players. Little Jimmy Multi-sport athletes can't just watch soccer every 4 years. He needs to see Messi coming into his town.

Also, in a 48 team WC where 32 make the knockout round, every UEFA team makes the R32. The concern would be winning that R32 game if you were in a lower pot.

 

[Pitt79]

So joining UEFA is the solution to getting better. But you get better and make it to LESS World Cups? What's the point of being better and not getting in the tournament?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So joining UEFA is the solution to getting better. But you get better and make it to LESS World Cups? What's the point of being better and not getting in the tournament?

Because soccer cant be an every 4 year sport in this country for the average fan. You need a world-class MLS. And being in UEFA also puts you in the Euro tournament which is very visible in the US so even if you arent in the World Cup, you're in that.

 

[PeetWeet2]

They wouldn’t even make all the World Cups. You cant worry about that. You need in UEFA so that MLS would play in Champions League, making it a Top 3, maybe eventually Top 2 league. That strengthens the American pool of players. Little Jimmy Multi-sport athletes can't just watch soccer every 4 years. He needs to see Messi coming into his town.

Also, in a 48 team WC where 32 make the knockout round, every UEFA team makes the R32. The concern would be winning that R32 game if you were in a lower pot.

Does Jimmy multi-sport athlete exist? Doesn’t seem like it. Also, kids watch world class soccer all the time. They see the glamour and money available.

Why would the MLS want to part of the UEFA? They like a closed league. They like salary caps. They like parity.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Does Jimmy multi-sport athlete exist? Doesn’t seem like it. Also, kids watch world class soccer all the time. They see the glamour and money available.

Why would the MLS want to part of the UEFA? They like a closed league. They like salary caps. They like parity.

They absolutely do up until late elementary school. And these kids absolutely do not watch the EPL. Soccer kids watch it. The kid whose dad played football at IUP but is much more athletic and has D1 football/basketball potential isnt watching the EPL and will go to football/basketball after playing soccer until U10. Those are the kids you need. The American pool is top shallow. Its really just European players + sons of former pros. Not many McKennie, Adams, or Dempsey types. If Messi signed with Charlotte when he was 22, that changes EVERYTHING. Think of the Mario effect on youth hockey here.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

My head hurts again. Soccer is the single most complicated entity on earth. When we can resolve soccer's issues and America, we can cure cancer and climate change.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

My head hurts again. Soccer is the single most complicated entity on earth. When we can resolve soccer's issues and America, we can cure cancer and climate change.

It is crazy to think about. Gridiron football evolved from soccer and rugby. But soccer was big in western pa and nationwide 100 years ago. I don’t know what happened and why it faded away instead of going to a new level of popularity.

Meatheads will say America knew it was boring , yada, yada, yada.. but that’s simply a Meathead opinion. It’s no less boring than any other sport. How did baseball become America’s pastime? If soccer had become the pastime 115 years ago, baseball probably wouldn’t even exist.

People feel the way they do about soccer domestically because it’s not a fabric of the culture. There is no vested interest running deep within the veins since birth. I don’t know what happened 100 years ago when the mass euro immigration to this country didn’t result in soccer popularity taking over.

It is fascinating to think about.

 

[PeetWeet2]

They absolutely do up until late elementary school. And these kids absolutely do not watch the EPL. Soccer kids watch it. The kid whose dad played football at IUP but is much more athletic and has D1 football/basketball potential isnt watching the EPL and will go to football/basketball after playing soccer until U10. Those are the kids you need. The American pool is top shallow. Its really just European players + sons of former pros. Not many McKennie, Adams, or Dempsey types. If Messi signed with Charlotte when he was 22, that changes EVERYTHING. Think of the Mario effect on youth hockey here.

Look at the roster. More of a mix than you give it credit for. Also, way more soccer households now than when we grew up. Common to have volunteer parents that played in college coaching kids.

Now, this doesn’t mean our formal development system isn’t very flawed. Not keeping score, travel differentiation at the U9 level, etc.

How much different are the year-round demands though? Swimming, baseball, basketball, volleyball, tennis, lacrosse, wrestling and boxing are all pretty much full time commitments from a young age at the top levels.

 

[PeetWeet2]

Joining UEFA really makes a lot of sense for everyone if you think about it. I truly believe UEFA would take them and I believe its the USSF who doesn't want it because they are afraid they wont qualify for World Cups, and they absolutely may miss some. I think they are content with US soccer where it is and relying on European kids born to American soldiers and sons of former American pros to get us to the Round of 16. That's the ceiling and they are excited. They dont want to or believe soccer could ever overtake baseball and basketball not just in terms of viewership but in terms of participation. There are only a handful of "traditional" (bad use of the word here) American kids choosing soccer past age 9 or 10. They are still going to football, baseball, basketball. The ones that stick with it are the ones with immigrant parents or the ones whose parents played professionally or D1. They need that elite athlete who is the star football and basketball player but chose soccer. Chad OchoCinco is an example of a guy who could have been world class if he gave up the other sports at 11 or 12. OBJ is another. The ONLY way that those kids choose soccer is if the domestic league is world class and they have the Messi or Ronaldo of that era coming into their city every year. And the only way to do that is if they join UEFA.

I also thought about the CONMEBOL merger. The Carribbean has thought about breaking off. It could work well if they did and got 1 WC bid and sent 1 to the playoff (like Oceania will do in 26) and the had the US, Canada, Mexico, and Central America join Conmebol.

Pretty big reach to go from NFL WR to world-class soccer player. Height, speed and hands are a good start. But they do nothing to indicate they would have the required endurance, first touch, timing or vision required.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pretty big reach to go from NFL WR to world-class soccer player. Height, speed and hands are a good start. But they do nothing to indicate they would have the required endurance, first touch, timing or vision required.

World-class athleticism. Had they focused on soccer only from age 10 or 11, they would have been big time. An athlete is an athlete.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If a country wants to step out of their confederation and play in another tournament, club teams are not required to release players for international play if for example USA is a guest country in a foreign confederation tourney like Copa America , Africa League of Nations, or Euros.

No club is going to release players for such competitions. Why would they?? So we would be stuck sending MLS jabroni’s to Copa America and that’s not helping anyone.

They would because US Soccer will go to them and tell them that if they let their guys play in the Copa America they won't pick them for the Gold Cup roster, which the clubs have no choice but to release players for.

The last time the idiots running US Soccer did it the other way around, they told the clubs they would only play their players in the Gold Cup. And they pissed off the people running CONMEBOL enough by sending a B team that we've waited over a decade for another chance to play in a "normal" Copa. This time they won't be nearly so stupid.

I hope.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Why would the MLS want to part of the UEFA? They like a closed league. They like salary caps. They like parity.

Yeah, we've discussed SMF's goofy idea before. There is no way that MLS goes for joining Europe and all that would entail. No way.

 

[PeetWeet2]

World-class athleticism. Had they focused on soccer only from age 10 or 11, they would have been big time. An athlete is an athlete.

No, they are not. Great HS players - absolutely. Great D3 - absolutely. Huge gaps between D3, D1, MLS, EPL squad player, EPL mid-table starter - the minimum level for which one could claim world class. Endurance, vision, spacing and first touch are massive requirements that we have no reason to think OBJ could - or to be fair - could not achieve.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Imagine Gonzaga basketball only playing a weak conference schedule and not being able to step out of conference and push themselves against better teams to prepare them for The NCAA’s.

This is what we have with USA Soccer. Now that most of our team is playing in Europe at good clubs, the biggest thing holding us back is Concacaf.

SMF’s crazy idea of joining UEFA isn’t so bad.

We are rumored to be playing in Copa America in 2024. That is what we all want. That step out of Concacaf can help prepare our team against elite competition. But guess what? If a country wants to step out of their confederation and play in another tournament, club teams are not required to release players for international play if for example USA is a guest country in a foreign confederation tourney like Copa America , Africa League of Nations, or Euros.

No club is going to release players for such competitions. Why would they?? So we would be stuck sending MLS jabroni’s to Copa America and that’s not helping anyone.

So if we want to be more than a 2nd tier team in future world cups, we have to get out of Concacaf, or Concacaf is going to have to merge somehow with Comebol.

The rumor is still that we may actually be hosting Copa America since Ecuador turned it down. In that case might there be a reason for the U.S. To actually be able to get the best players There.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

The rumor is still that we may actually be hosting Copa America since Ecuador turned it down. In that case might there be a reason for the U.S. To actually be able to get the best players There.

I heard Brian Dunseth, who’s pretty tuned into such things, say today on the radio that the clubs won’t release our best players.

 

[brdst11]

I heard Brian Dunseth, who’s pretty tuned into such things, say today on the radio that the clubs won’t release our best players.

Has the rule changed since the 16 tournament which was held here? Because I looked at the roster of that US team and it included guys from Villa, New Castle, Everton, Dortmund, Gladbach, etc. I don't remember US players not getting released.

 

[brdst11]

I heard Brian Dunseth, who’s pretty tuned into such things, say today on the radio that the clubs won’t release our best players.

Heres a link repeating what you heard, without sourcing it or providing much explanation. I wonder if it's deemed a joint CONCACAF CONMEBOL tournament, is that a way around it?

Report: USMNT in talks to compete in 2024 Copa América

It’s one of the biggest tournaments in the world

www.starsandstripesfc.com

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It is crazy to think about. Gridiron football evolved from soccer and rugby. But soccer was big in western pa and nationwide 100 years ago. I don’t know what happened and why it faded away instead of going to a new level of popularity.

Meatheads will say America knew it was boring , yada, yada, yada.. but that’s simply a Meathead opinion. It’s no less boring than any other sport. How did baseball become America’s pastime? If soccer had become the pastime 115 years ago, baseball probably wouldn’t even exist.

People feel the way they do about soccer domestically because it’s not a fabric of the culture. There is no vested interest running deep within the veins since birth. I don’t know what happened 100 years ago when the mass euro immigration to this country didn’t result in soccer popularity taking over.

It is fascinating to think about.

The problem with soccer is defense is usually very passive. It is boring. Same with passive defensive systems in hockey. You just try to keep everything on the periphery. It is not just goals, but chances and plays.

Defensive football can be aggressive, make plays, blitzes, hits, etc... A 1-0 game in baseball can be interesting because the pitching is great and see 100mph pitches.

If you see my thread on the free board, scoring is way up in the NHL this year. It is closer back to the Lemieux era than ever. That is because finally skill is outpacing goalies and defensive coaching. Soccer seems to set in its ways...."that's futbol" and accepting of never needing to change in this sport. And we know that it is the world's game, so they definitely are not going to take American input.

Speaking of........watching how easy it is for some of these teams to get clean scoring chances then watching the US team through CONCAF and the World Cup and how a simple set piece is like solving Differential Calculus equations, should point the US in some direction...."hey, it is great we have better athletes and defenders, but we need to find some people comfortable with the ball in scoring positions".

 

[Pitt79]

How did baseball become America’s pastime?

Baseball had pro leagues in major cities starting around 1870, minor leagues literally everywhere shortly after. Football and Hockey never had a league until 50 years later and basketball until like 75 years later. Even college football never came around until the 1890s and was really a niche northeastern thing at first ironically.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

The problem with soccer is defense is usually very passive. It is boring. Same with passive defensive systems in hockey. You just try to keep everything on the periphery. It is not just goals, but chances and plays.

Defensive football can be aggressive, make plays, blitzes, hits, etc... A 1-0 game in baseball can be interesting because the pitching is great and see 100mph pitches.

If you see my thread on the free board, scoring is way up in the NHL this year. It is closer back to the Lemieux era than ever. That is because finally skill is outpacing goalies and defensive coaching. Soccer seems to set in its ways...."that's futbol" and accepting of never needing to change in this sport. And we know that it is the world's game, so they definitely are not going to take American input.

Speaking of........watching how easy it is for some of these teams to get clean scoring chances then watching the US team through CONCAF and the World Cup and how a simple set piece is like solving Differential Calculus equations, should point the US in some direction...."hey, it is great we have better athletes and defenders, but we need to find some people comfortable with the ball in scoring positions".

But see you said it was boring. That’s a product of the sport not being part of the inner fabric of the culture. Canadians don’t think hockey is boring, but drop an NHL game into Alabama and see what Alabama folk think. Go to England and they’ll tell you that the NFL is boring. But put that NFL game in front of Americans and they’ll take that all day long.

 

[Pitt79]

But see you said it was boring. That’s a product of the sport not being part of the inner fabric of the culture. Canadians don’t think hockey is boring, but drop an NHL game into Alabama and see what Alabama folk think. Go to England and they’ll tell you that the NFL is boring. But put that NFL game in front of Americans and they’ll take that all day long.

I's rather see a slow soccer buildup trying to get a cross into the box than a 100mph baseball pitch, the soccer action is way more compelling and exciting to me.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It is crazy to think about. Gridiron football evolved from soccer and rugby. But soccer was big in western pa and nationwide 100 years ago. I don’t know what happened and why it faded away instead of going to a new level of popularity.

Meatheads will say America knew it was boring , yada, yada, yada.. but that’s simply a Meathead opinion. It’s no less boring than any other sport. How did baseball become America’s pastime? If soccer had become the pastime 115 years ago, baseball probably wouldn’t even exist.

People feel the way they do about soccer domestically because it’s not a fabric of the culture. There is no vested interest running deep within the veins since birth. I don’t know what happened 100 years ago when the mass euro immigration to this country didn’t result in soccer popularity taking over.

It is fascinating to think about.

Don’t know the answer to your question about 100+ years ago.

I do believe that many Americans subconsciously dislike the egalitarian-tendencies of soccer. Inherently they seem to prefer sports with a less even playing field where the more talented teams almost always defeat lesser talented opponents without much struggle and regard ties as ”like kissing your sister.” They also tend to desire American dominance in a sport to be the norm. Just my opinion, however.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Don’t know the answer to your question about 100+ years ago.

I do believe that many Americans subconsciously dislike the egalitarian-tendencies of soccer. Inherently they seem to prefer sports with a less even playing field where the more talented teams almost always defeat lesser talented opponents without much struggle and regard ties as ”like kissing your sister.” They also tend to desire American dominance in a sport to be the norm. Just my opinion, however.

You mean fans, want to see their teams win? What? That is just typical ugly American stuff!!

 

[Pitt79]

You mean fans, want to see their teams win? What? That is just typical ugly American stuff!!

I think it's more like quitting on being a fan if you're not always the best.