Thinking out loud

[PittFanDan17]

2 points to make here:
1) Was yesterday's recruiting day the best one you've ever experienced? I'm only 22 so for me, absolutely.
2) Pitt is now up to 30 on 247's (what I use) team rankings and the class inst even half full yet, anyone else thinking that this class has top 15 potential??? I have to say, I think easily right now. After coming off a disappointing season, HCPN is clearly shutting everyone up when it comes to recruiting. Once again, what a freaking day yesterday was. H2P!

 

[Panther Parrothead]

2 points to make here:
1) Was yesterday's recruiting day the best one you've ever experienced? I'm only 22 so for me, absolutely.
2) Pitt is now up to 30 on 247's (what I use) team rankings and the class inst even half full yet, anyone else thinking that this class has top 15 potential??? I have to say, I think easily right now. After coming off a disappointing season, HCPN is clearly shutting everyone up when it comes to recruiting. Once again, what a freaking day yesterday was. H2P!

(1) Yes.

(2) Not yet. A lot of us would be satisfied with a Top 25 class this year. We need more 4-5 star recruits to get to the rarified air of Top 15.

 

[PittFanDan17]

(1) Yes.

(2) Not yet. A lot of us would be satisfied with a Top 25 class this year. We need more 4-5 star recruits to get to the rarified air of Top 15.

I think after a good year on the field, and another clean up in late January (similar to last year) will easily get us there.

 

[cashisking884]

2) Pitt is now up to 30 on 247's (what I use) team rankings and the class inst even half full yet, anyone else thinking that this class has top 15 potential???

We are at an 85.5 average recruit ranking on 247.
The highest rated 85ish class last year was Iowa at 41. The lowest rated Top 15 class in the 247 Composite was LSU with a 90 average.
It would basically take a 5* bonanza between now and signing day for a Top 15 class.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

There was nothing special about yesterday except for the number of recruits in a single day (8) and in two days (9) and the number of Southern states recruits (likely mostly because PA overall is pretty weak this year).

The quality ratings of the individual recruits was pretty much the Pitt usual.

Pitt is around #30 nationally at this time mainly due to the number of commits vs other schools having the same or fewer commits at this time (e.g., Syracuse only has 2 recruits so far and is ranked in the 70s--that will change later as they fill their class).

When all is said and done in February 2019 we will probably have 20-25 commits and an average recruit rating of approximately 3.00 stars. Such a result will pretty much match the past few years and will probably put our final class rating somewhere in the mid 30s nationally--similar to last year when we finished at #38.

If we can have an unexpected better than predicted season (9 or more wins) this fall maybe we can land some number of 4-stars late in the process and finish somewhat better than in the past (i.e., possibly in the #25-#30 range).

Bottom line is that it was a nice solid recruiting catch-up weekend but nothing to be overly ecstatic about. It merely offered a sigh or relief to those hand-wringing fans terrified we were headed to a recruiting disaster due to low numbers of early recruits plus a few well regarded WPIAL/Western PA kids guys committing elsewhere early.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I think after a good year on the field, and another clean up in late January (similar to last year) will easily get us there.

The 5-stars won't happen unless the stars align and we win 11-12 games or more. Chances for that this season are between slim and none.

The best we can hope for is that a few of these guys "blow-up" senior year and get re-rated as 4-stars and we add a few 4-stars late. That could move Pitt up to a #20-#25 range class on LOI day in February. However, that is unlikely. I am expecting a final class Rivals ranked around #35 +/- 4/5 spots) in February. Significantly better and I will be very pleased; significantly worse and I will be pretty disappointed.

 

[PittFanDan17]

The 5-stars won't happen unless the stars align and we win 11-12 games or more. Chances for that this season are between slim and none.

The best we can hope for is that a few of these guys "blow-up" senior year and get re-rated as 4-stars and we add a few 4-stars late. That could move Pitt up to a #20-#25 range class on LOI day in February. However, that is unlikely. I am expecting a final class Rivals ranked around #35 +/- 4/5 spots) in February. Significantly better and I will be very pleased; significantly worse and I will be pretty disappointed.

Good post, I agree and would take that at this point in HCPN's tenure. Fair to say though, he's just getting started.

 

[H2P 4 EVER 17]

Also being only 22, yesterday was definitely the most exciting recruiting day for Pitt football in my lifetime. I think some of these guys, especially the DE's in this class have tons of potential. Davis Beville looks like he could turn into a very good QB one day as well. However, I don't think we're anywhere near close to finishing with a top 15 class. A lot of these guys are more projects than for sure freshman all ACC team players one day. Also, with it still being somewhat early in the 2019 class, after getting all those guys yesterday we sit at 29 ranking on Rivals, but a good bit of schools will be able to jump us as they fill out their classes and add multiple 4 stars. Still I'm very optimistic with Narduzzi and this staff, and I think the 2020 or 2021 class could potentially be top 15 if we have back to back seasons with 9-10 wins. I wonder too if this staff prefers to focus more on highly rated 3 star projects that look to fit their system exactly, rather than a 4 star who is maybe a really solid player but they don't see him fitting their system as well.

 

[PittFanDan17]

Also being only 22, yesterday was definitely the most exciting recruiting day for Pitt football in my lifetime. I think some of these guys, especially the DE's in this class have tons of potential. Davis Beville looks like he could turn into a very good QB one day as well. However, I don't think we're anywhere near close to finishing with a top 15 class. A lot of these guys are more projects than for sure freshman all ACC team players one day. Also, with it still being somewhat early in the 2019 class, after getting all those guys yesterday we sit at 29 ranking on Rivals, but a good bit of schools will be able to jump us as they fill out their classes and add multiple 4 stars. Still I'm very optimistic with Narduzzi and this staff, and I think the 2020 or 2021 class could potentially be top 15 if we have back to back seasons with 9-10 wins. I wonder too if this staff prefers to focus more on highly rated 3 star projects that look to fit their system exactly, rather than a 4 star who is maybe a really solid player but they don't see him fitting their system as well.

That works for many other coaches and if we get that win total from year to year, im perfectly ok with it. Gotta think being in the ACC coastal, we'll have a couple of years to win it more often than not. Miami being the only school ahead of us in terms of brand power.

 

[Jpripper88]

2 points to make here:
1) Was yesterday's recruiting day the best one you've ever experienced? I'm only 22 so for me, absolutely.
2) Pitt is now up to 30 on 247's (what I use) team rankings and the class inst even half full yet, anyone else thinking that this class has top 15 potential??? I have to say, I think easily right now. After coming off a disappointing season, HCPN is clearly shutting everyone up when it comes to recruiting. Once again, what a freaking day yesterday was. H2P!

"Top 15 potential"? Not even close. Based on the commitments we got this weekend it will be very hard to even finish top 25 and ahead of our coastal division rivals.

 

[h2p_5150]

There was nothing special about yesterday except for the number of recruits in a single day (8) and in two days (9) and the number of Southern states recruits (likely mostly because PA overall is pretty weak this year).

The quality ratings of the individual recruits was pretty much the Pitt usual.

Pitt is around #30 nationally at this time mainly due to the number of commits vs other schools having the same or fewer commits at this time (e.g., Syracuse only has 2 recruits so far and is ranked in the 70s--that will change later as they fill their class).

When all is said and done in February 2019 we will probably have 20-25 commits and an average recruit rating of approximately 3.00 stars. Such a result will pretty much match the past few years and will probably put our final class rating somewhere in the mid 30s nationally--similar to last year when we finished at #38.

If we can have an unexpected better than predicted season (9 or more wins) this fall maybe we can land some number of 4-stars late in the process and finish somewhat better than in the past (i.e., possibly in the #25-#30 range).

Bottom line is that it was a nice solid recruiting catch-up weekend but nothing to be overly ecstatic about. It merely offered a sigh or relief to those hand-wringing fans terrified we were headed to a recruiting disaster due to low numbers of early recruits plus a few well regarded WPIAL/Western PA kids guys committing elsewhere early.

Pretty much. I was starting to worry that we'd wind up reaching on a bunch of 2 stars that belonged in the MAC or CUSA, so yesterday was good in that we got a bunch of decent players who belong in the ACC. However, it is more a sign that we'll finish with our typical class than it is a sign that recruiting is getting better. Had those exact same commitments been spread out over 2 months would we all be excited? No.

 

[joeydavid]

Regardless of how they got there- people would be exited to see Pitt in the top 30 at this stage of the game. We have all watched HCPN closeout recruiting classes at a high level; now he's got a good start to one to build on.

Pretty much. I was starting to worry that we'd wind up reaching on a bunch of 2 stars that belonged in the MAC or CUSA, so yesterday was good in that we got a bunch of decent players who belong in the ACC. However, it is more a sign that we'll finish with our typical class than it is a sign that recruiting is getting better. Had those exact same commitments been spread out over 2 months would we all be excited? No.

 

[PittFanDan17]

I think now that we got a lot of solid guys, higher ranked guys would be more than willing to take us seriously (not that they didn't earlier in the cycle, but now that they see they'll have a team around them), and maybe commit. I think we'll see at least several 4 stars towards the end of the class, HCPN pulls them in towards the end every year. I don't see that changing this go around either.

 

[sherepower]

Last I saw Pitt has the 28th ranked recruiting class.

If we get 3 or 4 four stars we are recruiting currently. Pitt has a chance to be close to top 20.

Yet, those wacko Ped st fans say Pitt recruits like a MAC school. Seriously, they lie about everything. Especially, when they allowed the sickest thing to ever happen under a sports team for 30 plus years.

They should all seek serious help

 

[sherepower]

You can tell Ped st fans don’t know college football when all they care about stars given out by jock sniffers who never played the game.

Anyone that knows even a little bit of college football it’s offers not stars that matter.

Which all of our recruits over the weekend had a ton of P5 offers except Brima who’s new to the game

 

[Jpripper88]

Last I saw Pitt has the 28th ranked recruiting class.

If we get 3 or 4 four stars we are recruiting currently. Pitt has a chance to be close to top 20.

Yet, those wacko Ped st fans say Pitt recruits like a MAC school. Seriously, they lie about everything. Especially, when they allowed the sickest thing to ever happen under a sports team for 30 plus years.

They should all seek serious help

Shere, even if we only get commits equal or better (unlikely) with our current crop, we will need a lot more than 3 or 4 four stars to get real close to top 20. The highest finisher (on Rivals) with 4 or fewer 4 stars last year was at 24 and the highest with 3 or fewer was 32. Number 20 had 7 4 stars of their 20 commitments and only 1 commit who wasn't a 3 or 4.

 

[cashisking884]

You can tell Ped st fans don’t know college football when all they care about stars given out by jock sniffers who never played the game.

Anyone that knows even a little bit of college football it’s offers not stars that matter.

Which all of our recruits over the weekend had a ton of P5 offers except Brima who’s new to the game

Can you show me the study correlating P5 offers to success? What P5 offers? If I have 10 but they are all from Duke, Wake, Lville, NW, Texas Tech, etc., does that count a a really good recruit?
I have lots of study showing the correlation between star ranking and success. I've never seen the correlation between "offer and success" study, or how such a study would ever be done? Would be interested in the link. Thanks.

 

[Swervin27]

Can you show me the study correlating P5 offers to success? What P5 offers? If I have 10 but they are all from Duke, Wake, Lville, NW, Texas Tech, etc., does that count a a really good recruit?
I have lots of study showing the correlation between star ranking and success. I've never seen the correlation between "offer and success" study, or how such a study would ever be done? Would be interested in the link. Thanks.

well it comes down to a simple question. Which do you trust more on evaluating high school recruits? P5 coaching staffs or a recruiting website?

if it's coaching staffs then the offers matter most. if you trust rivals and scout more than coaches then go with the stars..

 

[Jpripper88]

well it comes down to a simple question. Which do you trust more on evaluating high school recruits? P5 coaching staffs or a recruiting website?

if it's coaching staffs then the offers matter most. if you trust rivals and scout more than coaches then go with the stars..

Can you show me a lot of 4 and 5 star prospects with fewer P5 offers than 3 stars?

 

[Swervin27]

Can you show me a lot of 4 and 5 star prospects with fewer P5 offers than 3 stars?

there are a lot of examples of 4 star recruits with very few P5 offers while a lot of 3 stars have multiple P5 offers. are you kidding me?

5 stars are low hangng fruit, very easy to identify. coaches, evaluators, websites, common fans can pick these type out.. I'll take a recruit with the better offer sheet over stars every day of the week.

 

[PittFanDan17]

there are a lot of examples of 4 star recruits with very few P5 offers while a lot of 3 stars have multiple P5 offers. are you kidding me?

5 stars are low hangng fruit, very easy to identify. coaches, evaluators, websites, common fans can pick these type out..

Your first point can go either way though, some of our commits are examples of both when it comes to the 3 stars. Some have good offer lists, some dont, but they may get more as time passes.

 

[Swervin27]

Your first point can go either way though, some of our commits are examples of both when it comes to the 3 stars. Some have good offer lists, some dont, but they may get more as time passes.

we have some recruits with nice offers and some "sleepers" with very weak offer list. best we can do is hope narduzzi and our staff can identify players before other programs do. I personally believe they are good at that skill set but im not exactly objective on the situation being a die hard pitt and narduzzi fan.

 

[PittFanDan17]

we have some recruits with nice offers and some "sleepers" with very weak offer list. best we can do is hope narduzzi and our staff can identify players before other programs do. I personally believe they are good at that skill set but im not exactly objective on the situation being a die hard pitt and narduzzi fan.

Lol I'm with you. Whenever I think too much i always go back to "he (HCPN) gets paid for this, he knows what hes doing"

 

[RaleighPittFan]

Lol I'm with you. Whenever I think too much i always go back to "he (HCPN) gets paid for this, he knows what hes doing"

He deserves a raise for having to put up with the knucklehead contingent of the Pitt fan base.

 

[PittPharmacy1989]

2 points to make here:
1) Was yesterday's recruiting day the best one you've ever experienced? I'm only 22 so for me, absolutely.
2) Pitt is now up to 30 on 247's (what I use) team rankings and the class inst even half full yet, anyone else thinking that this class has top 15 potential??? I have to say, I think easily right now. After coming off a disappointing season, HCPN is clearly shutting everyone up when it comes to recruiting. Once again, what a freaking day yesterday was. H2P!

Clearly the best day I ever remember in Pitt recruiting. But there have been some other really good short stretches over just a couple day time period.

And no, I don’t think we are going to see top 15. Just like we are only half full, so are most of the other schools. Everyone will be adding talent. I just don’t see us landing enough four star talent to bump up the ranking that high. I think we’ll see 25-35 range this year.

 

[cashisking884]

well it comes down to a simple question. Which do you trust more on evaluating high school recruits? P5 coaching staffs or a recruiting website?

if it's coaching staffs then the offers matter most. if you trust rivals and scout more than coaches then go with the stars..

But it doesn't come down to that.
1. Your choices are not really needed. Once again, we KNOW the high correlation between star ranking and player/team success rate. If you want to argue there is perhaps an even better model for predicting success, okay. But it's not like there is something wrong with the star system. It's prettyyyyyyyyy good in predicting success.

2. There are probably far more issues in the "offer model" because you're relying on self-promotion and an objective idea of what qualifies as an offer.
Lets say you committed to a team your freshman year of high school. And shut down recruiting. And were rated a 5* player by the services. You didn't really list your offers, you didn't give a lot of interviews, you didn't care. You had your team, you were done with all of it. By your model, you aren't really a 5*, since you're not going to claim many offers. Which is silly.
The offer model is largely dependent on which players are more inclined to tweet out, "Blessed to receive an offer from...", and that can't be how we judge players.

What happens when you get offered early, so you list it, but then the offer isn't there anymore. Not because the team filled up, but maybe because you didn't progress physically enough. Or your game didn't advance enough. So the team doesn't think you are worthy of an offer anymore. And the scouts agree. So you have a "5* offer list," but none of them are actually real, and you aren't close to a 5* recruit. How do we know when that's happened?

What happens when what you think is an offer, isn't? Alabama is notorious for their offers not actually being offers. It's just an offer to earn an offer. How do we know which is which?

 

[Jpripper88]

there are a lot of examples of 4 star recruits with very few P5 offers while a lot of 3 stars have multiple P5 offers. are you kidding me?

5 stars are low hangng fruit, very easy to identify. coaches, evaluators, websites, common fans can pick these type out.. I'll take a recruit with the better offer sheet over stars every day of the week.

There really aren't "a lot" when you make it a relative (3* QB vs. 4* QB, 3* DE vs. 4* DE, etc.) comparison. There are very, very few consensus 3 stars, which have much better offers than consensus 4 stars.

 

[Jpripper88]

But it doesn't come down to that.
1. Your choices are not really needed. Once again, we KNOW the high correlation between star ranking and player/team success rate. If you want to argue there is perhaps an even better model for predicting success, okay. But it's not like there is something wrong with the star system. It's prettyyyyyyyyy good in predicting success.

2. There are probably far more issues in the "offer model" because you're relying on self-promotion and an objective idea of what qualifies as an offer.
Lets say you committed to a team your freshman year of high school. And shut down recruiting. And were rated a 5* player by the services. You didn't really list your offers, you didn't give a lot of interviews, you didn't care. You had your team, you were done with all of it. By your model, you aren't really a 5*, since you're not going to claim many offers. Which is silly.
The offer model is largely dependent on which players are more inclined to tweet out, "Blessed to receive an offer from...", and that can't be how we judge players.

What happens when you get offered early, so you list it, but then the offer isn't there anymore. Not because the team filled up, but maybe because you didn't progress physically enough. Or your game didn't advance enough. So the team doesn't think you are worthy of an offer anymore. And the scouts agree. So you have a "5* offer list," but none of them are actually real, and you aren't close to a 5* recruit. How do we know when that's happened?

What happens when what you think is an offer, isn't? Alabama is notorious for their offers not actually being offers. It's just an offer to earn an offer. How do we know which is which?

Which clearly happened for Todd Sibley.

 

[Swervin27]

There really aren't "a lot" when you make it a relative (3* QB vs. 4* QB, 3* DE vs. 4* DE, etc.) comparison. There are very, very few consensus 3 stars, which have much better offers than consensus 4 stars.

sooooo are you saying you like stars better than offer sheets or what here. I don't know where you are going with this.

I want a player that other P5 programs want more than I want a player that some guy who works for rivals wants. it's not rocket science here fellas, it's a pretty straight forward concept. why are you trying to make it a hard one. Cashisking just wrote a 4 page narrative on this and it's not that deep of a concept.

 

[PittPanther84]

But it doesn't come down to that.
1. Your choices are not really needed. Once again, we KNOW the high correlation between star ranking and player/team success rate. If you want to argue there is perhaps an even better model for predicting success, okay. But it's not like there is something wrong with the star system. It's prettyyyyyyyyy good in predicting success.

2. There are probably far more issues in the "offer model" because you're relying on self-promotion and an objective idea of what qualifies as an offer.
Lets say you committed to a team your freshman year of high school. And shut down recruiting. And were rated a 5* player by the services. You didn't really list your offers, you didn't give a lot of interviews, you didn't care. You had your team, you were done with all of it. By your model, you aren't really a 5*, since you're not going to claim many offers. Which is silly.
The offer model is largely dependent on which players are more inclined to tweet out, "Blessed to receive an offer from...", and that can't be how we judge players.

What happens when you get offered early, so you list it, but then the offer isn't there anymore. Not because the team filled up, but maybe because you didn't progress physically enough. Or your game didn't advance enough. So the team doesn't think you are worthy of an offer anymore. And the scouts agree. So you have a "5* offer list," but none of them are actually real, and you aren't close to a 5* recruit. How do we know when that's happened?

What happens when what you think is an offer, isn't? Alabama is notorious for their offers not actually being offers. It's just an offer to earn an offer. How do we know which is which?

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. If you're a 5* recruit who commits early (like you said) then that school will probably be an Alabama, Ohio State, etc. Which I think we all agree makes you a very valuable recruit.

I don't think Swervins argument was just simply if you have little offers, I don't want you. I think he was more just comparing 3* who receive much better offers then 4* (players who already aren't that much better).

Obviously it's not as black and white to just compare how many offers a player has. But when comparing players not far rated, it's a great way to compare who'd you rather have.

 

[Jpripper88]

sooooo are you saying you like stars better than offer sheets or what here. I don't know where you are going with this.

I want a player that other P5 programs want more than I want a player that some guy who works for rivals wants. it's not rocket science here fellas, it's a pretty straight forward concept. why are you trying to make it a hard one. Cashisking just wrote a 4 page narrative on this and it's not that deep of a concept.

I'm saying recruiting has to improve and I think pittmeister and others (I guess including you) are using multiple cop outs to explain how Pitt is doing great and ignoring the opposite issues with other recruits. I think "P5 offers" are certainly not created equal. The "P5 offers" criteria is completely dependent on self seeking and self reporting, but it can certainly tell a lot of the story. I think more than anything there is a need for consistency, higher expectations, and a realization of where we currently stand and where our competition is.

Right now, we have 12 commits and at least half of those are guys that either 0 other P5 programs wanted or that only the worst P5 programs wanted. There are a few who had offers from more than 1 decent or better program. The rest of the P5 offers are from schools we shouldn't be associated with for 80% of our prospects, if we expect to improve.

 

[pittmeister]

sooooo are you saying you like stars better than offer sheets or what here. I don't know where you are going with this.

I want a player that other P5 programs want more than I want a player that some guy who works for rivals wants. it's not rocket science here fellas, it's a pretty straight forward concept. why are you trying to make it a hard one. Cashisking just wrote a 4 page narrative on this and it's not that deep of a concept.

"I want a player that other P5 programs want more than I want a player that some guy who works for rivals wants."

BINGO!

Flowers and McVittie were 4 star players with less than three P5 offers....So how are they doing???

 

[cashisking884]

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. If you're a 5* recruit who commits early (like you said) then that school will probably be an Alabama, Ohio State, etc. Which I think we all agree makes you a very valuable recruit.

I don't think Swervins argument was just simply if you have little offers, I don't want you. I think he was more just comparing 3* who receive much better offers then 4* (players who already aren't that much better).

Obviously it's not as black and white to just compare how many offers a player has. But when comparing players not far rated, it's a great way to compare who'd you rather have.

My point is simple: offers are a far more flawed way to value a recruit. We have a wealth of data to show us how accurate the star system is. Why people would want to find another metric, I really don't understand?
We have absolutely no data on an "offer" metric. And the reason is simple: offers are self-reporting dependent, highly subjective from one person to the next and one team to the next as to what constitutes an offer, and are very time specific as it relates to your talent and progression. And as others have pointed out, the bleed over between the two is going to be so great, it's kind of an odd distinction to make.
Offers are just far too subjective. Even if you are able to pin down all the variables above. Then we have to debate what constitutes an impressive offer(s). How many offer sheets were you impressed with this weekend? You might say a bunch, another person might yawn at most of them.
All so we can replace an already accurate predictive model.

 

[cashisking884]

sooooo are you saying you like stars better than offer sheets or what here. I don't know where you are going with this.

I want a player that other P5 programs want more than I want a player that some guy who works for rivals wants. it's not rocket science here fellas, it's a pretty straight forward concept. why are you trying to make it a hard one. Cashisking just wrote a 4 page narrative on this and it's not that deep of a concept.

I want the guy the dude at Rivals says is a 5*, more than I want anybody on most P5 school's commit list. If you told me I could have Rivals' 5* players, but those Rivals scouts weren't allowed to know what offers those schools had or who they are committed to, or I could have the players Iowa or NW or Duke will be in competition for, I will take the Rivals' 5* list without hesitation.

 

[Jpripper88]

"I want a player that other P5 programs want more than I want a player that some guy who works for rivals wants."

BINGO!

Flowers and McVittie were 4 star players with less than three P5 offers....So how are they doing???

What about all our commits with few or bottom of the barrel P5 offers? What about our commits with 0 P5 offers? Why doesn't it matter in those situations? Leslie Smith has been seen by EVERY school in the country and 0 other P5 programs offered him. Why doesn't that matter to you?

 

[cashisking884]

What about all our commits with few or bottom of the barrel P5 offers? What about our commits with 0 P5 offers? Why doesn't it matter in those situations? Leslie Smith has been seen by EVERY school in the country and 0 other P5 programs offered him. Why doesn't that matter to you?

It's sad. We might be trolls, but we at least have a principle. An idea. Stars matters, recruiting needs to be improved for there to be real gains on the field. A better recruiting staff could make such gains.
People can hate that, disagree with it, or whatever, but it's there. You can counter it.
These "actual fans" don't have any principle. It's the Ministry of Propaganda. Stars matter until they don't, and then offers matter. Offers matter until they don't, and then it's trust in the coaches that this kid could be the next James Conner. Whatever is needed to fit the party's message at the moment.

 

[foxchapelpanther]

I think the class will end up about 35-40. So similar to last year.

While the quality isn't going to blow anyone away - and some of them are definitely reaches - the good news it the two best players (in my view), play the 2 most important positions in Davis Beville (QB) and Brandon Mack (DE)

Lot to like about Beville

 

[pittdan77]

It's sad. We might be trolls, but we at least have a principle. An idea. Stars matters, recruiting needs to be improved for there to be real gains on the field. A better recruiting staff could make such gains.
People can hate that, disagree with it, or whatever, but it's there. You can counter it.
These "actual fans" don't have any principle. It's the Ministry of Propaganda. Stars matter until they don't, and then offers matter. Offers matter until they don't, and then it's trust in the coaches that this kid could be the next James Conner. Whatever is needed to fit the party's message at the moment.

It's really weird that there appears to be a loud part of the fan base that is so detached from reality that averaging 7-8 wins a season feels like success so long as they get to see Pitt play a brutal schedule and pull off the odd upset every few years while enjoying one or two kids who excel enough to get drafted. And then, run around bragging about that stuff like it matters more than winning or competing for conference championships while crying "whoa is me" about stadiums and colors and tarps and all the BS that doesn't matter as an excuse. "Hey, we beat out Iowa State and Army for a kid that needs three years to develop and you trolls are joke because Pitt will win 9-10 games this year!"

It's like there's a weird subset of Pitt football/Pirate fans that enjoys watching Pitt get their doors blown off at noon at Heinz and then slip over to PNC later to watch another meaningless September baseball game while lamenting the sins of Steve Pederson.

 

[Jpripper88]

I think the class will end up about 35-40. So similar to last year.

While the quality isn't going to blow anyone away - and some of them are definitely reaches - the good news it the two best players (in my view), play the 2 most important positions in Davis Beville (QB) and Brandon Mack (DE)

Lot to like about Beville

I'm certainly not sold on Beville, but it is clear they targeted him early.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

I'm certainly not sold on Beville, but it is clear they targeted him early.

Are we to believe that you somehow know better than guys who's livelihood is based on these decisions?

What qualifications do you have that would lead us to believe you are better at this than Narduzzi, or even Watson?