This team is immature

[Bethlehemjohn]

They can't handle success and they don't seem to understand this is a team game. As soon as things start to go well, someone on the team gets their feelings hurt and jacks up all the good work that has been done.

The story how Toney wants to transfer and the players don't like the coaches screams of immaturity. So, once again Toney's family think he is being used wrong? They just don't get it. When Toney plays well, it is because he does everything and he plays hard and with a motor. He plays great D, he rebounds, he makes the little plays that allow teams to win. That is what will allow him to play professionally somewhere. Tonight he was pathetic and came out and fired up three 3's in the first 10 minutes. Yeah, he can hit a 3 every now and then during a game and he can even occasionally put a 20 spot up, but that is not what he does best. It seems as soon as Champ started getting recognition, Toney got his feelings hurt and that is immature and won't work.

I want players that want to work hard, play tough and leave it all out on the court. I want to see that effort every time. It seemed like we finally GOT IT and then it all blows up. That is sad and pathetic and I really don't want to hear about how the players don't like the coaches, that is a cop out. They are trying to make you better men, better competitors and make you realize that it is about the team and never about one guy. I just can't fathom that we were 8-3 and 4-1 and playing great, unselfish ball and then all it takes is a little adversity to blow it all up. Apparently we still haven't learned and at this point not sure if we will.

 

[DT_PITT]

They can't handle success and they don't seem to understand this is a team game. As soon as things start to go well, someone on the team gets their feelings hurt and jacks up all the good work that has been done.

The story how Toney wants to transfer and the players don't like the coaches screams of immaturity. So, once again Toney's family think he is being used wrong? They just don't get it. When Toney plays well, it is because he does everything and he plays hard and with a motor. He plays great D, he rebounds, he makes the little plays that allow teams to win. That is what will allow him to play professionally somewhere. Tonight he was pathetic and came out and fired up three 3's in the first 10 minutes. Yeah, he can hit a 3 every now and then during a game and he can even occasionally put a 20 spot up, but that is not what he does best. It seems as soon as Champ started getting recognition, Toney got his feelings hurt and that is immature and won't work.

I want players that want to work hard, play tough and leave it all out on the court. I want to see that effort every time. It seemed like we finally GOT IT and then it all blows up. That is sad and pathetic and I really don't want to hear about how the players don't like the coaches, that is a cop out. They are trying to make you better men, better competitors and make you realize that it is about the team and never about one guy. I just can't fathom that we were 8-3 and 4-1 and playing great, unselfish ball and then all it takes is a little adversity to blow it all up. Apparently we still haven't learned and at this point not sure if we will.

Is there something going on again about Toney's family thinking he is being used wrong?

 

[PittPoker]

They can't handle success and they don't seem to understand this is a team game. As soon as things start to go well, someone on the team gets their feelings hurt and jacks up all the good work that has been done.

The story how Toney wants to transfer and the players don't like the coaches screams of immaturity. So, once again Toney's family think he is being used wrong? They just don't get it. When Toney plays well, it is because he does everything and he plays hard and with a motor. He plays great D, he rebounds, he makes the little plays that allow teams to win. That is what will allow him to play professionally somewhere. Tonight he was pathetic and came out and fired up three 3's in the first 10 minutes. Yeah, he can hit a 3 every now and then during a game and he can even occasionally put a 20 spot up, but that is not what he does best. It seems as soon as Champ started getting recognition, Toney got his feelings hurt and that is immature and won't work.

I want players that want to work hard, play tough and leave it all out on the court. I want to see that effort every time. It seemed like we finally GOT IT and then it all blows up. That is sad and pathetic and I really don't want to hear about how the players don't like the coaches, that is a cop out. They are trying to make you better men, better competitors and make you realize that it is about the team and never about one guy. I just can't fathom that we were 8-3 and 4-1 and playing great, unselfish ball and then all it takes is a little adversity to blow it all up. Apparently we still haven't learned and at this point not sure if we will.

I guess my question is, when is it the players or when is it the coaching staff? For this "drama" to be going on yet again makes me wonder what the hell is going on with this program!!

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

Is there something going on again about Toney's family thinking he is being used wrong?

The pay board has a bunch of stuff on it regarding this and that is the way it appears to me.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

I guess my question is, when is it the players or when is it the coaching staff? For this "drama" to be going on yet again makes me wonder what the hell is going on with this program!!

It's on both.

But, if the team is playing really well and one of your players is kicking ass and getting some pub, you would hope the other players are happy about it and thrilled the team is winning. Apparently there is a player who gets butt hurt any time someone else has some really good games.

 

[PittPoker]

It's on both.

But, if the team is playing really well and one of your players is kicking ass and getting some pub, you would hope the other players are happy about it and thrilled the team is winning. Apparently there is a player who gets butt hurt any time someone else has some really good games.

If true of course it's ridiculous and uncalled for. But I guess my question is, is this definitely happening? Or is this just what you or others are deducing by Toney's bad play recently? Like where is the proof this is what is happening.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

If true of course it's ridiculous and uncalled for. But I guess my question is, is this definitely happening? Or is this just what you or others are deducing by Toney's bad play recently? Like where is the proof this is what is happening.

I don't know, just taking what others are saying about a player wanting to transfer because his family says he is not being used right. We know it happened before, so it is not so hard to believe it has happened again. And he has totally changed the way he has played the last few games. He has settled for 3's, hasn't rebounded worth a damn and hasn't been as good on defense either.

It sucks, because I like him and the way he plays. However, you have to know what kind of player you are and you have to realize that it takes many players playing well to have a winning team. Sometimes you will get the pub and other times it will be somebody else. Either way, the team wins and if that happens, everyone gets pub and gets seen.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Well if that’s true it’s now 2 years in a row. He should be encouraged to leave. Enough is enough. Again, if that’s true.

 

[Gep Dawg]

I don’t who this is but whoever it is should be marginalized or he should move on. There is enough talent on the bench now to not put up a Prima Donna.

This is my thought on this...if this is definitely true.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I don't know, just taking what others are saying about a player wanting to transfer because his family says he is not being used right. We know it happened before, so it is not so hard to believe it has happened again. And he has totally changed the way he has played the last few games. He has settled for 3's, hasn't rebounded worth a damn and hasn't been as good on defense either.

It sucks, because I like him and the way he plays. However, you have to know what kind of player you are and you have to realize that it takes many players playing well to have a winning team. Sometimes you will get the pub and other times it will be somebody else. Either way, the team wins and if that happens, everyone gets pub and gets seen.

Yeah, I like him a lot, too. I have noted that he does seem to have a hard time fitting into the offense for some reason, that he has to work to get this points. BUT, that is his game. He is not a guy you run plays to get set shots and is not a strong enough guy to set up plays to have him isolated to beat his man to the basket.
He looked really out of sorts the first half of the NC game, I though he might have been intimidated by their size or something. But, ND is a team, like Duke, he should have been able to play his game.
But, his affect is always a bit distant, and he is looking to disengaged now like he did at the end of last season.

 

[Pav9870]

To me, Toney is the essence of a complimentary player. He plays, or used to play, great defense, rebounds and stays within an offense. When there are other players who come down court and go 1 on 3 or never pass back, then I think people would get discouraged.
Last night Toney cut through the key and got a nice feed from Femi for a layup. Audiese almost did a double take and pointed out Femi for the pass. That play stands out still today because I don't remember another like it from last night. The rest of the night was people jacking up 3's or getting a pass and trying to make their own shot. Nothing out of an offensive framework that I could see. Successful teams need everyone working hard, and as a team. Don't see that happening since the Duke win. Why a win like that would tear apart a team is unexplainable.

 

[TheChair]

FWIW, I think Toney is being used perfectly on offense except for when they have times that they lose him and Champagnie. Those guys have stretches over the courses of games where they do not see the ball enough. It is odd. Especially with Champagnie, who is a big league scorer now at the college level. You would think they would try to play through him most every possession.

That said, when both get the ball, they are being used very well. Toney has a free reign on the floor to take what he wants from the coaching staff. He should have no issues on usage.

 

[Saboteur II]

I don't know, just taking what others are saying about a player wanting to transfer because his family says he is not being used right. We know it happened before, so it is not so hard to believe it has happened again. And he has totally changed the way he has played the last few games. He has settled for 3's, hasn't rebounded worth a damn and hasn't been as good on defense either.

It sucks, because I like him and the way he plays. However, you have to know what kind of player you are and you have to realize that it takes many players playing well to have a winning team. Sometimes you will get the pub and other times it will be somebody else. Either way, the team wins and if that happens, everyone gets pub and gets seen.

Duquesne has an opening.
I’m always of the opinion that if I guy wants to transfer, let him. The sooner the better. They are cancers to teams and games aren’t played on paper.
Go and good luck. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[gary2]

They can't handle success and they don't seem to understand this is a team game. As soon as things start to go well, someone on the team gets their feelings hurt and jacks up all the good work that has been done.

The story how Toney wants to transfer and the players don't like the coaches screams of immaturity. So, once again Toney's family think he is being used wrong? They just don't get it. When Toney plays well, it is because he does everything and he plays hard and with a motor. He plays great D, he rebounds, he makes the little plays that allow teams to win. That is what will allow him to play professionally somewhere. Tonight he was pathetic and came out and fired up three 3's in the first 10 minutes. Yeah, he can hit a 3 every now and then during a game and he can even occasionally put a 20 spot up, but that is not what he does best. It seems as soon as Champ started getting recognition, Toney got his feelings hurt and that is immature and won't work.

I want players that want to work hard, play tough and leave it all out on the court. I want to see that effort every time. It seemed like we finally GOT IT and then it all blows up. That is sad and pathetic and I really don't want to hear about how the players don't like the coaches, that is a cop out. They are trying to make you better men, better competitors and make you realize that it is about the team and never about one guy. I just can't fathom that we were 8-3 and 4-1 and playing great, unselfish ball and then all it takes is a little adversity to blow it all up. Apparently we still haven't learned and at this point not sure if we will.

If the Toney family is the problem, and if they were last year as well, hand them the transfer papers NOW.

Time to begin work on crafting a team.

 

[ThePanthers]

I said this after the Duke win in another thread. After the "pitt is back" comments and the crappy practice after I said this team is too immature to handle success. Capel echoed that as well.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I said this after the Duke win in another thread. After the "pitt is back" comments and the crappy practice after I said this team is too immature to handle success. Capel echoed that as well.

Lol maybe that’s on the coaching. He can’t constantly blame the players he recruited for his problems.

 

[pittjas]

Lol maybe that’s on the coaching. He can’t constantly blame the players he recruited for his problems.

I’m just tired for the whole “can’t handle success” and “immature” excuses. When X and Trey came in as freshmen and beat FSU and L’Ville, I completely understand that excuse.. but with X and Toney as JRs, Champ as a SO, plus TB and a few transfers who have played a lot of minutes..., at some point it falls on him

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I’m just tired for the whole “can’t handle success” and “immature” excuses. When X and Trey came in as freshmen and beat FSU and L’Ville, I completely understand that excuse.. but with X and Toney as JRs, Champ as a SO, plus TB and a few transfers who have played a lot of minutes..., at some point it falls on him

It clearly falls on him now. At least most of it.

 

[Pittisit4me]

The head cases must go! How do you explain Horton? Toney's Family? This all comes out of nowhere after the team has a nice run of success and then stumbles at Wake.

It is damn strange. It is almost like they all suddenly can't stand eachother. The team concept is gone, the effort is gone, the interest in even playing basketball was gone last night.

This stuff is on Capel and it needs immediately addressed. If a couple players need to be kicked off, then he must do so. It is sad that we are at this point again. If certain players can't except their roles to help make this team its best, then they must be shown the door.

These kids can play, we have seen that. HCJC is running out of excuses for performances like last night. If he can't improve team chemistry and get these kids to play with some desire he isn't the coach I thought he was. If the season ends the way I fear it will, this program will be needing a reset once again.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

The head cases must go! How do you explain Horton? Toney's Family? This all comes out of nowhere after the team has a nice run of success and then stumbles at Wake.

It is damn strange. It is almost like they all suddenly can't stand eachother. The team concept is gone, the effort is gone, the interest in even playing basketball was gone last night.

This stuff is on Capel and it needs immediately addressed. If a couple players need to be kicked off, then he must do so. It is sad that we are at this point again. If certain players can't except their roles to help make this team its best, then they must be shown the door.

These kids can play, we have seen that. HCJC is running out of excuses for performances like last night. If he can't improve team chemistry and get these kids to play with some desire he isn't the coach I thought he was. If the season ends the way I fear it will, this program will be needing a reset once again.

Agreed - the buck falls on Jeff Capel. Changes must be made to his roster and coaching staff. He gets paid a lot of money and needs to figure it out.

 

[PittPoker]

Agreed - the buck falls on Jeff Capel. Changes must be made to his roster and coaching staff. He gets paid a lot of money and needs to figure it out.

But here's the thing, could Jeff really not bring back his brother? It becomes a really unfortunate situation once these guys hire their own siblings. You expect Jeff Capel to be able to look at the big picture and realize that his brother isn't a good asst? And to take it 1 step further, actually let him go?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

But here's the thing, could Jeff really not bring back his brother? It becomes a really unfortunate situation once these guys hire their own siblings. You expect Jeff Capel to be able to look at the big picture and realize that his brother isn't a good asst? And to take it 1 step further, actually let him go?

That’s exactly why he shouldn’t have been allowed to hire him to begin with. Even if he doesn’t need to go, the perception of nepotism exists. If he’s a good enough coach someone else would have hired him.

 

[Pittisit4me]

Agreed - the buck falls on Jeff Capel. Changes must be made to his roster and coaching staff. He gets paid a lot of money and needs to figure it out.

We all want wins but it isn't even about that right now. It is about putting players on the court who give a damn about the team and are willing to work and put in the effort. The team concept has fractured again. It must be recovered quickly, and at any cost.

Penny is the only guy who hasn't quit and still goes hard. After him, I don't care who is benched or shown the door. Capel is embarassing himself and the University if he lets the team perform like that even one more time.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They can't handle success and they don't seem to understand this is a team game. As soon as things start to go well, someone on the team gets their feelings hurt and jacks up all the good work that has been done.

The story how Toney wants to transfer and the players don't like the coaches screams of immaturity. So, once again Toney's family think he is being used wrong? They just don't get it. When Toney plays well, it is because he does everything and he plays hard and with a motor. He plays great D, he rebounds, he makes the little plays that allow teams to win. That is what will allow him to play professionally somewhere. Tonight he was pathetic and came out and fired up three 3's in the first 10 minutes. Yeah, he can hit a 3 every now and then during a game and he can even occasionally put a 20 spot up, but that is not what he does best. It seems as soon as Champ started getting recognition, Toney got his feelings hurt and that is immature and won't work.

I want players that want to work hard, play tough and leave it all out on the court. I want to see that effort every time. It seemed like we finally GOT IT and then it all blows up. That is sad and pathetic and I really don't want to hear about how the players don't like the coaches, that is a cop out. They are trying to make you better men, better competitors and make you realize that it is about the team and never about one guy. I just can't fathom that we were 8-3 and 4-1 and playing great, unselfish ball and then all it takes is a little adversity to blow it all up. Apparently we still haven't learned and at this point not sure if we will.

And its one of the oldest teams in the ACC soooo

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

We all want wins but it isn't even about that right now. It is about putting players on the court who give a damn about the team and are willing to work and put in the effort. The team concept has fractured again. It must be recovered quickly, and at any cost.

Penny is the only guy who hasn't quit and still goes hard. After him, I don't care who is benched or shown the door. Capel is embarassing himself and the University if he lets the team perform like that even one more time.

I am in complete agreement. I was very happy 3 weeks ago because they were playing as a team and out working their opponent. I even stated during game action that I would be fine with a loss as long as they continued playing with effort and energy. Well......the bottom has fallen out once again around the same time in the season. This has become a pattern and needs to be fixed ASAP. I don’t care who leaves. The problems must be weeded out.

 

[ThePanthers]

I’m just tired for the whole “can’t handle success” and “immature” excuses. When X and Trey came in as freshmen and beat FSU and L’Ville, I completely understand that excuse.. but with X and Toney as JRs, Champ as a SO, plus TB and a few transfers who have played a lot of minutes..., at some point it falls on him

I think it falls on both. I don't think X and Toney are strong leaders and that is part of the issue. Unfortunately they are two of our better players right now so you can't bench them long term either. And that is where capel needs to continue to build.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

The head cases must go! How do you explain Horton? Toney's Family? This all comes out of nowhere after the team has a nice run of success and then stumbles at Wake.

It is damn strange. It is almost like they all suddenly can't stand eachother. The team concept is gone, the effort is gone, the interest in even playing basketball was gone last night.

This stuff is on Capel and it needs immediately addressed. If a couple players need to be kicked off, then he must do so. It is sad that we are at this point again. If certain players can't except their roles to help make this team its best, then they must be shown the door.

These kids can play, we have seen that. HCJC is running out of excuses for performances like last night. If he can't improve team chemistry and get these kids to play with some desire he isn't the coach I thought he was. If the season ends the way I fear it will, this program will be needing a reset once again.

That is 100% true. These posts that we aren't good enough for the ACC are just bullshit. When we play the right way, we can compete with anyone.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

The fact remains that Capel is paid a helluva lot of money to coach this team and he isn't doing his job very well. No excuses for his teams to be falling apart every year at the same time of the year. Changes need to be made on the staff and, if players don't want to play or put forth the effort, take their scholarships and use them on players who want to be here. No one should be above being cut loose at this point, including the head coach.

 

[snaphook297]

Sorry guys you have no idea if HCJC bro is a good coach. Once again you are pissing in the wind .

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Sorry guys you have no idea if HCJC bro is a good coach. Once again you are pissing in the wind .

He was an assistant coach for one year, backstabbed the head coach to get the job, then went 53-70 and wasn’t hired for 4 years until Jeff got a job. Now there’s rumors he’s lying to current players and they all hate him. What more info do we need?

 

[Pittisit4me]

He was an assistant coach for one year, backstabbed the head coach to get the job, then went 53-70 and wasn’t hired for 4 years until Jeff got a job. Now there’s rumors he’s lying to current players and they all hate him. What more info do we need?

The lying part makes sense. However, they were playing hard for him and playing as a team as recently as a two games ago. Did this just start? Does it have anything to do with the Hugley situation? I am not sure what is going on on the inside, but, what we see on the outside has turned to scrap.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

He was an assistant coach for one year, backstabbed the head coach to get the job, then went 53-70 and wasn’t hired for 4 years until Jeff got a job. Now there’s rumors he’s lying to current players and they all hate him. What more info do we need?

unsubstantiated rumors is what your offering up . Like what be specific !

 

[snaphook297]

More rumors than a sewing circle girls

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

I can kinda understand Toney's frustration. I mean... Champagnie can't play or won't play defense and from what I see he doesn't even hide the fact - he doesn't even try.. I watched a set play called by Bray to get some pedestrian guard take Champagnie off the dribble - when the opponents are drawing up set plays to get him into 1/1 matchups... it ain't no secret.

If this guy is Pitt's best player... yeah... OK... somebody needs to do some recruiting.