Thought Elmore was too hard on Robinson

[Sean Miller Fan]

And that's coming from me, who has been very down on him. I really like Len Elmore but he seemed a little over the top with some of his comments. Although they were all 100% true, I felt he embarrassed him even if he didn't mean to.......especially the comment about Pitt playing 4 on 5 with him on there.

Len, leave it to jerks like us to bash Robinson! Great to see him hit those 2 late 3s. Before that, he was having a very Newkirkish end to the season.

 

[TreesHero]

Agreed--Len was 100% correct.

 

[PittPoker]

Len spoke the truth, it really was 5 on 4. I was shocked to hear it because usually the announcers keep gushing over James' assist to turnover ratio over and over. That's what makes Elmore 1 of the best.

 

[UPitt '89]

If Young boxes out like he's supposed to at the end, we're all talking about how James hit the clutch game tying 3 to send it to overtime.

 

[bobfree]

Well by his reasoning we actually played 1-2 on 5 depending on who was on the floor. Because Robinson out played Artis, smith, and our 5 most of the game

 

[Jeffburgh]

If Young boxes out like he's supposed to at the end, we're all talking about how James hit the clutch game tying 3 to send it to overtime.

Not for nothing, but whose man did young not box out?

 

[BuffetParrothead]

And that's coming from me, who has been very down on him. I really like Len Elmore but he seemed a little over the top with some of his comments. Although they were all 100% true, I felt he embarrassed him even if he didn't mean to.......especially the comment about Pitt playing 4 on 5 with him on there.

Len, leave it to jerks like us to bash Robinson! Great to see him hit those 2 late 3s. Before that, he was having a very Newkirkish end to the season.

Maybe Len posts on the Lair? But you're correct he was all over Robinson with comments like "PITT can't rely on him but they need him to make this shot" late in the game.

 

[PittPoker]

Maybe Len posts on the Lair? But you're correct he was all over Robinson with comments like "PITT can't rely on him but they need him to make this shot" late in the game.

Honestly good. Tired of the pregame lovefest for obviously an overmatched acc point guard. About time there was an honest critique.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Maybe Len posts on the Lair? But you're correct he was all over Robinson with comments like "PITT can't rely on him but they need him to make this shot" late in the game.

He was right.

Frankly, it was pretty apparent that Miami saw him as weak, and as the game wore increasingly attacked him.

 

[JD1976]

Elmore is arguably the best analyst in college basketball. I had no problem with his criticism of Robinson. Coming from him there's a lot of validity to what he was saying.

 

[Pittx9]

And that's coming from me, who has been very down on him. I really like Len Elmore but he seemed a little over the top with some of his comments. Although they were all 100% true, I felt he embarrassed him even if he didn't mean to.......especially the comment about Pitt playing 4 on 5 with him on there.

Len, leave it to jerks like us to bash Robinson! Great to see him hit those 2 late 3s. Before that, he was having a very Newkirkish end to the season.

I couldn't have said it better. I have been down on James lately, the first time I ever have in his career. But Elmore really was borderline embarrassing the kid. And I also think Len is a very respectable commentator. Honestly, instead of talking about Artis' talent all the time, how bout mentioning his flat out laziness. He's almost becoming an on-court cancer. Don't think he is in the locker room, but when guys see him barely attempt to get rebounds, and barely stay with his man defensively, it is very discouraging.

 

[PittPoker]

I couldn't have said it better. I have been down on James lately, the first time I ever have in his career. But Elmore really was borderline embarrassing the kid. And I also think Len is a very respectable commentator. Honestly, instead of talking about Artis' talent all the time, how bout mentioning his flat out laziness. He's almost becoming an on-court cancer. Don't think he is in the locker room, but when guys see him barely attempt to get rebounds, and barely stay with his man defensively, it is very discouraging.

Disagree on this regarding Robinson. Until the last couple of minutes when he finally made a couple of shots, James was killing us out there. Elmore along with the tv viewing audience saw that as well and was pointing it out. Remember it hasn't just been this game, he has struggled against good teams almost all season. I think Elmore was spot on and very fair. It really was 5 on 4 when James was in the game until the end.

 

[DT_PITT]

And that's coming from me, who has been very down on him. I really like Len Elmore but he seemed a little over the top with some of his comments. Although they were all 100% true, I felt he embarrassed him even if he didn't mean to.......especially the comment about Pitt playing 4 on 5 with him on there.

Len, leave it to jerks like us to bash Robinson! Great to see him hit those 2 late 3s. Before that, he was having a very Newkirkish end to the season.

I think it's important to explain more about the context of Elmore's comment. That is, he said that Miami knows he's looking to pass (as opposed to shoot or drive) when the shot clock is winding down, so they only have to guard 4 scorers.

He was offering that James needs to look to score (or drive) in the final seconds of the shot clock (to make it 5 on 5) and NOT that having James on the court is like Pitt playing 4 on 5.

 

[UPitt129]

Not for nothing, but whose man did young not box out?

I know what you are getting at, but it is not really a valid point because James was busy boxing out someone else's guy.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I think it's important to explain more about the context of Elmore's comment. That is, he said that Miami knows he's looking to pass (as opposed to shoot or drive) when the shot clock is winding down, so they only have to guard 4 scorers.

He was offering that James needs to look to score (or drive) in the final seconds of the shot clock (to make it 5 on 5) and NOT that having James on the court is like Pitt playing 4 on 5.

That's how I interpreted it...
More of a -if James is a threat, it opens up everyone else.

 

[DT_PITT]

I know what you are getting at, but it is not really a valid point because James was busy boxing out someone else's guy.

They were playing zone on the possession, so no one was "boxing out their guy," per se.

 

[UPitt129]

They were playing zone on the possession, so no one was "boxing out their guy," per se.

Ahh, good point.

 

[Joe Magarac]

And that's coming from me, who has been very down on him. I really like Len Elmore but he seemed a little over the top with some of his comments. Although they were all 100% true, I felt he embarrassed him even if he didn't mean to.......especially the comment about Pitt playing 4 on 5 with him on there.

Len, leave it to jerks like us to bash Robinson! Great to see him hit those 2 late 3s. Before that, he was having a very Newkirkish end to the season.

What you are saying is "The Truth Hurts"
Finally some in the media is saying:
I shall tell tripe when tripe is served.
It's about time.

 

[Piranha]

Elmore is very good. We won a lot of games in the past when he was our a announcer.

 

[thebadby2]

Len spoke the truth, it really was 5 on 4. I was shocked to hear it because usually the announcers keep gushing over James' assist to turnover ratio over and over. That's what makes Elmore 1 of the best.

Not sure how many dozens of times I've made that same comment the past 4 years. It really has been 5 on 4 for us on offense with JR.

 

[thebadby2]

Not for nothing, but whose man did young not box out?

Are you suggesting that each guy was supposed to identify a man to box out in that situation?

The shot goes up with 2 seconds left with no Miami players near the rim or in rebounding position you get your ass to the rim and don't let anyone through. IAt all costs you secure that rebound. It's not about who was defending the 5'10 guard that crashed the rim after the shot went up and scored the game winner with 3 of our guys standing there dumbfounded. It's about executing a fundamental defensive rebound in a critical situation. Period. That would have been totally inexcusable and a benchalbe offense if we had a 30 point lead,. The fact that Young and Artist lollygagged it in that do or die situation is inexcusable.

Come on now.

 

[TiredRam97]

I don't understand why JRob is such a lightening rod for criticism.

I personally believe Artis should be taking the heat. If Artis gave an ounce of a sh!t about playing defense or anything remotely fundamentally sound, we would be much better off. Mike Young gets away with a lot as well. These guys are two of the softer Pitt "bigs" we've had in the last 15 years.

JRob at least never half asses it. I can't say the same about the other two.

 

[thebadby2]

That's how I interpreted it...
More of a -if James is a threat, it opens up everyone else.

What's the difference? The fact that he's not a scoring threat and the other team only has to defend 4 guys is exactly the point of the comment. What other interpretation is there?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I don't understand why JRob is such a lightening rod for criticism.

I personally believe Artis should be taking the heat. If Artis gave an ounce of a sh!t about playing defense or anything remotely fundamentally sound, we would be much better off. Mike Young gets away with a lot as well. These guys are two of the softer Pitt "bigs" we've had in the last 15 years.

JRob at least never half asses it. I can't say the same about the other two.

Because some mopes are fixated on him in an entirely mentally unhealthy way.

On my list of problems with this team, James isn't in the top 5.

 

[passedout]

I don't understand why JRob is such a lightening rod for criticism.

I personally believe Artis should be taking the heat. If Artis gave an ounce of a sh!t about playing defense or anything remotely fundamentally sound, we would be much better off. Mike Young gets away with a lot as well. These guys are two of the softer Pitt "bigs" we've had in the last 15 years.

JRob at least never half asses it. I can't say the same about the other two.

______________
JRob isn't good defensively and make others have to not only work harder with help defense, but puts them out of position -- you have to work as a unit -- a chain is only strong as its links. To say Robinson doesn't half ass it is false. How many times this year has a guard blew past him or shot an open 3 because he was playing so far off his man because he's too slow and knew he would be beat? How many times has he not tried to get in the face of the guard trying to make an entry pass? I mean, at least make an effort to make it NOT a sure thing. Elmore called him out on this yesterday, and I was SO in agreement with him. I think you're seeing frustration coming out with Mike Young. Oh, and by the way, JRob was the one who tapped the ball towards the front of the rim for the game tying tip in - yet another lightning strike

 

[Jeffburgh]

Are you suggesting that each guy was supposed to identify a man to box out in that situation?

The shot goes up with 2 seconds left with no Miami players near the rim or in rebounding position you get your ass to the rim and don't let anyone through. IAt all costs you secure that rebound. It's not about who was defending the 5'10 guard that crashed the rim after the shot went up and scored the game winner with 3 of our guys standing there dumbfounded. It's about executing a fundamental defensive rebound in a critical situation. Period. That would have been totally inexcusable and a benchalbe offense if we had a 30 point lead,. The fact that Young and Artist lollygagged it in that do or die situation is inexcusable.

Come on now.

Your slogging a strawman.

I have a dozen posts noting the heartless effort of the entire team after the game, so any defense of those guys is a figment of your imagination.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

On my list of problems with this team, James isn't in the top 5.

What?????

This team can't score and that is primarily because we have a PG who can't shoot, can't penetrate, and can't create any offense for anybody else. I realize our defense is a huge problem but IMO, Robinson's lack of offense......on an offensively challenged team is the biggest problem. I dont think anybody thinks Seth Allen is a good PG, but if we had him or someone like that, a PG who can do SOMETHING offensively, it changes everything. I mean, we have, perhaps the beat pure shooter in years on this team and Robinson cant even get him an open look.

Do you know how easy it is to beat Pitt? We only score from the 3 and 4 spots, that's it. Put your best defender on Artis, double Young to make him give it up and its game over. Teams are making our guards beat us and they arent good enough.

 

[UPitt129]

What?????

This team can't score and that is primarily because we have a PG who can't shoot, can't penetrate, and can't create any offense for anybody else. I realize our defense is a huge problem but IMO, Robinson's lack of offense......on an offensively challenged team is the biggest problem. I dont think anybody thinks Seth Allen is a good PG, but if we had him or someone like that, a PG who can do SOMETHING offensively, it changes everything. I mean, we have, perhaps the beat pure shooter in years on this team and Robinson cant even get him an open look.

Do you know how easy it is to beat Pitt? We only score from the 3 and 4 spots, that's it. Put your best defender on Artis, double Young to make him give it up and its game over. Teams are making our guards beat us and they arent good enough.

AZ had no problem scoring with McConnell who shoots like James, scored about the same, and couldn't really create on his own.

 

[passedout]

AZ had no problem scoring with McConnell who shoots like James, scored about the same, and couldn't really create on his own.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TJ averaged better in points, rebounds, assists and steals by 1 or better in each category. What TJ is IS efficient and a good shooter and better defender than JRob. McConnell shot FG at a 50% clip his senior year, while JRob is shooting at 37%. Robinson is not a good shooter, as was referenced above. In fact, from his Freshman year to now his FG% has jumped a whopping 6/1000th of a percentage point -- YIKES! That says volumes IMO.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

What?????

This team can't score and that is primarily because we have a PG who can't shoot, can't penetrate, and can't create any offense for anybody else. I realize our defense is a huge problem but IMO, Robinson's lack of offense......on an offensively challenged team is the biggest problem. I dont think anybody thinks Seth Allen is a good PG, but if we had him or someone like that, a PG who can do SOMETHING offensively, it changes everything. I mean, we have, perhaps the beat pure shooter in years on this team and Robinson cant even get him an open look.

Do you know how easy it is to beat Pitt? We only score from the 3 and 4 spots, that's it. Put your best defender on Artis, double Young to make him give it up and its game over. Teams are making our guards beat us and they arent good enough.

Yes...so on my list.
#1 Post defense.
2. Perimeter defense
3. Rebounding
4. Shooting Guard scoring.
5. Bad Screening/Lazy Cuts

Hard to "create offense" when the other players aren't moving.
You can have your own opinion.

 

[Pittx9]

Are you suggesting that each guy was supposed to identify a man to box out in that situation?

The shot goes up with 2 seconds left with no Miami players near the rim or in rebounding position you get your ass to the rim and don't let anyone through. IAt all costs you secure that rebound. It's not about who was defending the 5'10 guard that crashed the rim after the shot went up and scored the game winner with 3 of our guys standing there dumbfounded. It's about executing a fundamental defensive rebound in a critical situation. Period. That would have been totally inexcusable and a benchalbe offense if we had a 30 point lead,. The fact that Young and Artist lollygagged it in that do or die situation is inexcusable.

Come on now.

Perfectly said. Probably the most inexcusable thing we've seen all year.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

MYoung is physically overmatched inside saying he's not putting out effort is just wrong. Fighting guys 20-40lbs bigger and stronger than you is tough. I watched a play in the Miami game were their big man was backing him down using an arm bar to push Young back as soon as Young pushed back and held his ground the ref called a foul on him. He's a four that needs a real five. Zanna really was a 4 but like Young forced to play the 5 but he was bigger and stronger than Young.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

MYoung is physically overmatched inside saying he's not putting out effort is just wrong. Fighting guys 20-40lbs bigger and stronger than you is tough. I watched a play in the Miami game were their big man was backing him down using an arm bar to push Young back as soon as Young pushed back and held his ground the ref called a foul on him. He's a four that needs a real five. Zanna really was a 4 but like Young forced to play the 5 but he was bigger and stronger than Young.

i'd suggest Mike's weight has little to do with any struggles.
He is slow off the floor, which is his primary issue...and doesn't put in the effort to box out consistently.
Jekiri weighs 244 pounds. Young is 235 pounds.

I'm not buying the weight issue.
Nas was 6'3" in the paint and battled like a warrior.

 

[Zaratoughda]

In watching the game, I didn't think Elmore's comments were out of line at all.

In fact, I was saying to myself that Elmore was about the best color announcer that I have seen this season.. and was thinking he was reminding me of Clyde Frazier who is a great color announcer IMO.

Of course, a lot of Pitt fans would much rather go with Curtis Aiken.... who is terrible including having a problem in tripping over his tongue when he tries to speak.

But, he was a Pitt player and so some fans would prefer him even though... he is a terrible announcer.

As far as Robinson is concerned, he just might be better off if he didn't close his eyes when he tries to shoot... and what Miami was doing... ignoring Robinson... is about the same as what all the other teams we have been playing have been doing.

But, he DID hit those two big 3balls at the end.

Of course, the team came up short and that is just another black mark on the terrible job of coaching that Dixon is doing this season.

 

[UPitt129]

In watching the game, I didn't think Elmore's comments were out of line at all.

In fact, I was saying to myself that Elmore was about the best color announcer that I have seen this season.. and was thinking he was reminding me of Clyde Frazier who is a great color announcer IMO.

Of course, a lot of Pitt fans would much rather go with Curtis Aiken.... who is terrible including having a problem in tripping over his tongue when he tries to speak.

But, he was a Pitt player and so some fans would prefer him even though... he is a terrible announcer.

As far as Robinson is concerned, he just might be better off if he didn't close his eyes when he tries to shoot... and what Miami was doing... ignoring Robinson... is about the same as what all the other teams we have been playing have been doing.

But, he DID hit those two big 3balls at the end.

Of course, the team came up short and that is just another black mark on the terrible job of coaching that Dixon is doing this season.

Why is it ALWAYS coaching?

Usually Dixon gets blasted for how he uses the bench, for example. Tuesday the bench played great. No credit there? I'm not sure how a missed box out at the end falls on Dixon? It is intellectually lazy to blame the coach for everything.

 

[Zaratoughda]

Why is it ALWAYS coaching?

Usually Dixon gets blasted for how he uses the bench, for example. Tuesday the bench played great. No credit there? I'm not sure how a missed box out at the end falls on Dixon? It is intellectually lazy to blame the coach for everything.

The head coach is responsible for EVERYTHING.

If the players do not have enough talent... well, he's the one that recruited them.

If they have the talent but are not playing at the level they should well.... he is the one that is coaching them.

If they keep making the same mistakes over and over... and it isn't changing... like Sterling Smith collapsing to the inside for a potential rebound leaving his guy a wide open 3ball.... well he is the one that is NOT coaching them.

He is the one that is responsible as well for the rotations, the plays that are called, and the defense.

If one player is not playing up to speed.... then you can criticize that player but when it is all this and all that across the board... it is the coach.

IMO... this team has more than enough talent to compete successfully in the ACC but it is Dixon that has not gotten them to play at the level they are capable of.

A failure at his job of COACHING.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

i'd suggest Mike's weight has little to do with any struggles.
He is slow off the floor, which is his primary issue...and doesn't put in the effort to box out consistently.
Jekiri weighs 244 pounds. Young is 235 pounds.

I'm not buying the weight issue.
Nas was 6'3" in the paint and battled like a warrior.

Nas wasn't very good his senior season without McKee . Just like height who really knows their weight . I also don't know whose stronger between the two Nas or Young.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

len elmore is a pedantic, redundant, self-important jackass

if you like him you have a basketball iq in the teens and no taste at all

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

len elmore is a pedantic, redundant, self-important jackass

if you like him you have a basketball iq in the teens and no taste at all

He used to be better and does have some insights...
But mostly spouts cliches.