How much does he improve recruiting, if any? How much better does Pitt football become, if it improves at all?
Or, does Saban at the helm at Pitt still struggle?
Or, does Saban at the helm at Pitt still struggle?
Thought experiment. Nick Saban resigns from Bama and is announced as Pitt's head coach.
- Thread starter HailtoPitt
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First of all, he would never come here. Secondly, he wouldn't have the resources he has
at Alabama, not to mention a whole state behind him.
Now with that said, your questions are good ones. IMO we'd improve
immediately. His contacts would bring us much improved assistants. His name
alone would attract higher level recruits, and recruits are the lifeblood of any
program.
So I would see us a division power in the ACC every year with Saban. I doubt
he could get Pitt to a Clemson level, but I do believe we'd be exponentially better.
We'd still be second fiddle in a pro town. We'd still be an urban campus and up
against large PSU and OSU types of universities. However I do think we'd be a
more solid program where a down year might be 7 wins, and an up year would be
9-11 wins.
at Alabama, not to mention a whole state behind him.
Now with that said, your questions are good ones. IMO we'd improve
immediately. His contacts would bring us much improved assistants. His name
alone would attract higher level recruits, and recruits are the lifeblood of any
program.
So I would see us a division power in the ACC every year with Saban. I doubt
he could get Pitt to a Clemson level, but I do believe we'd be exponentially better.
We'd still be second fiddle in a pro town. We'd still be an urban campus and up
against large PSU and OSU types of universities. However I do think we'd be a
more solid program where a down year might be 7 wins, and an up year would be
9-11 wins.
No doubt he would completely turn this program around to become a powerhouse. I think in time we would challenge Clemson...but maybe not right away. Fun question!
Instead of Top 3 classes at Bama, he'd get Top 15 classes here pretty consistently with some Top 10s sprinkled in. We'd become the #2 to Clemson
Who did he kill in Bama to get fired? The governor of Bama said that their football team is their most coveted asset! So again....who did he kill?
Even if we double his salary, I'm not sure that's enough to lure him away from Bama. But if we throw that sort of resources at football (that much more than heavyweight programs), then I like our chances -- even if Narduzzi remains the coach. Narduzzi wouldn't have to hire Shawn Watsons or Mark Whipples or other old guys, he could hire a young, innovative, dynamic offensive coordinator and pay him enough to keep him here. He wouldn't have to worry about the LSUs of the world poaching them away after a season.
If we're talking about dedicating that kind of money to football, I imagine we also purchased land and built our own stadium in Oakland, etc.
If we're talking about dedicating that kind of money to football, I imagine we also purchased land and built our own stadium in Oakland, etc.
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Fun to talk about, but kinda depressing when we know that it ain't ever gonna happen.
The WVU fans have a hardcore bunch who keep saying that someday Saban will coach there, because of his Fairmont, West Virginia roots.
The WVU fans have a hardcore bunch who keep saying that someday Saban will coach there, because of his Fairmont, West Virginia roots.
Saban would go to WVU, and Heather, or any other AD at Pitt, would say we offered him 10 million , but WVU gave him 11, its our destiny, we should just start having fun with the lovable loser concept. We would then let the eghheads, and one of the moronic Cochrans to lead us to Kent's DC
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Saban would very likely have
10+ wins in his first year at Pitt in the ACC.
11+ wins in his second season.
There is no curse on the Pitt Football Program.
There's just an excruciatingly long history at the University of certain individuals given the task of choosing the next head coach who simply don't have the skills needed to properly judge whether a candidate is going to be good not.
10+ wins in his first year at Pitt in the ACC.
11+ wins in his second season.
There is no curse on the Pitt Football Program.
There's just an excruciatingly long history at the University of certain individuals given the task of choosing the next head coach who simply don't have the skills needed to properly judge whether a candidate is going to be good not.
Interesting. So in year 2 of Saban at the helm, you think that Pitt will have a great chance of making the playoffs? With only 2 years of new recruits?
I do think it is possible.I believe he and his staff would be able to bring in a top 8 to 15 class of recruits (even at Pitt), pulling in talented 4 (and possible 5) star QBs, RBS, TEs, WRs and linemen like we haven't seen in decades. Plus, Saban and his staff would be far superior at Xs and Os than any coach Pitt had over the past 30 years..
He'd still likely have to beat Clemson, which wouldn't be easy. Regardless, I do believe he could win 11 games and at least have a shot at the playoffs.
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How come Saban didn't win big at at Michigan State nor recruit top 10 classes as you suggest he would at PITT?
1) Wasn’t he dealing with sanctions?
2) He did go 9-2 his last year.
3) His reputation alone would help bring in recruits right now and he wasn’t as established back then.
1. He was dealing with a loss of scholarships.
2. He did go 9-2 his last year.
3. His reputation would help bring in recruits now.
With all that being said, to think he would take chicken shit and make it chicken salad is nuts.
Urban Meyer spoke on this years ago when he retired from Florida. He reiterated what Jimmy Johnson said when he left Okie State for Miami. Jimmy was asked by Larry Lacewell -
1. "have you ever beaten OU?" - "no"
2. "have you ever beaten Nebraska? "no"
3. "can you win a national championship at Okie State?" - he grinned and Lacewell said "well they just did at Miami."
Urban said in so many words the only attractive job north of the Mason-Dixon line if you're trying to legitimately win a NC is Ohio State. The reasons were -
1. In state recruiting talent that is high end that traditionally stays home.
2. Enormous football budget.
3. No competition from professional sports (sorry but the Browns and Bengals are #2 and #3 in OH)
Urban later on said the south is filled with teams that fit that criteria but OSU is the only one that fits that criteria in the north. Urban also took a slight shot at PSU when he said have you ever visited State College in January?
Saban knows this as do guys like Brett Venables who people have clamored for as a potential HC at PITT.
Saban is smart to know that as good as he is, he's not going to out recruit Clemson, FSU, nor Miami. He knows this game is won by players. Would he improve our team - sure. But, it's ridiculous to think anyone at his or near his stature who has a desire to consistently compete for a NC would consider PITT or just about anyone minus OSU, Michigan, or ND above the Mason-Dixon line.
This is thread that about“ how Saban would do if he took the Pitt job”. - it didn’t ask if he would or should take the job if offered.
By the way... as I said, I do think Saban could pull in a top 8-15 class with his reputation and the quality of people he’s likely have on his staff: I did not make it like he would out recruit a team like Clemson or Ohio State.
Johnny Majors and Jackie Sherrill were able to recruit well and even go pluck top tier talent from the south.
Heck, even Dave Wannstedt had a couple of top 25 recutting classes and was even had a 16th ranked class one year.
Urban Meyer was 12 - 0 his first year at OSU.
Sure OSU already had a lot of talent on the team before he started recruiting. . Still if he can go undefeated his first year in the Big Ten then Nick certainly has a shot of winning 10 in his first year of the ACC coastal.
A couple of thoughts/questions...
1. This isn't the 1970's.
2. Schools cannot offer unlimited amount of scholarships like they did under Johnny and Jackie.
3. You're going to have to refresh my memory but who were the top tier talent from a national perspective that Johnny and Jackie were landing from the South? The core of those teams were from above the Mason-Dixon line if memory serves correct.
4. What schools in the North minus OSU is currently plucking top tier talent from the south from a national perspective?
5. Urban Meyer did go 12-0 his 1st year at OSU and they were loaded with experience. 20 returning starters returned on that team. They played absolutely no one. Their marquee wins on the season were:
Michigan State (7-6) (finished unranked)
Nebraska (10-4) (finished #25)
Michigan (8-5) (finished #24)
6. How many times has Nick Saban beat teams that have more talent than he does since leaving Michigan State? The answer is outside of his 1st year or 2 at Bama, he hasn't faced many teams with more talent than his own much less beat them.
7. Saban, Meyer, Dabo, etc would be the 1st to tell you that the efforts they make on the recruiting trail would not produce the same results at lesser schools. It probably wouldn't be close. Heck, I had a conversation years ago with a Wanny staffer about landing premier southern talent. He said it's a different world recruiting no matter who the coach is. He said something that has stuck with me in that if you asked a kid would he rather vacation at Kennywood or Disney World if given the offer?
Obviously Saban would NEVER come here, but if he did we would be the leader of the Coastal Division and make the Top 10 once in awhile.
John Calipari didn’t land all the top hoops recruits until he was at Kentucky. Yeah he got many great guys but nothing like being at Big Blue Nation. So the school definitely helps.
So,yes, Saban would make Pitt better, but not Bama better.
Calipari landed very good recruits at Pitt, he won big at UMASS and Memphis. Bad example.
Do you hold any of those teams in the same light as Kentucky? I sure don’t.
It’s the perfect example. A great coach who has been enhanced to God like status because of school he is coaching at.
He has only won a National Championship while at Kentucky. Great records at other schools but Kentucky record is superior to those others.
Sagan would improve Pitt but not to a championship glory.
Memphis had a lead late in the championship game against Kansas and choked. UMass was ranked #1 and made the Final 4 under him.
Calipari is a good comparison.
Coaches want their efforts to match results. The elite coaches won't consider jobs that don't provide the resources to do so.
Coaches want their efforts to match results. The elite coaches won't consider jobs that don't provide the resources to do so.
I think Calipari is a very bad comparison because the dynamics in basketball are completely different. Much smaller rosters, much more relationship based.
Many coaches have come into schools that have a lot of strategic and tactical disadvantages and still recruited very, very well. CBB also still has a power or two located in states that do not produce much basketball talent (meaning, tradition takes them further).
If Calipari showed up at Pitt tomorrow, Pitt would have a top 5-10 recruiting class each year. He is just a different animal. But, if we are talking Calipari, why not talk Coach K? Or Roy Williams? Or Jay Wright?
There are a group of guys in CBB that will do well no matter where they go. And, they know how to coach in addition to recruiting.
FWIW, if Saban showed up at Pitt, I think he would get top 15 recruiting classes pretty easily because his mere presence would indicate that Pitt would be sinking TONS of money into the program. You do not bring in Nick Saban at this time (or do not get the chance) if you are cheap. And, if Pitt really sunk that type of money into the program, I think they would likely be competitive with anyone up North save OSU, who just has so many built-in advantages.
Firmly getting that commitment over time from a school is basically impossible though. Which is why I doubt you ever see a truly big-time coach take a shot on a Pitt or something similar that has not poured money into the program over time.
The dynamics are completely different than the 70s, in multiple ways. No one increases spending that much all at once anymore. No one also is patient enough to wait the 4-5 years that it could take to turn a program around that needs more time. Mostly all would waiver and change course after 2-3 years if they did not see massive success.
He’d get us to our ceiling. Recruit somewhere 15 to 22ish. As long as the other Coastal teams didn’t get their act together, he’d win the Coastal most years. Maybe win the ACC in a down year.
You’re forgetting The fact that Wannstedt did land a lot of really good recruits. His issue was he simply couldn’t make any smart decisions on game day.Had Saban been at Pitt working with Wannstedt’s same players, would he not have had a better record?
It’s very likely Pitt would have seen 12 wins in a season where they won 10 with DW coaching... and likely 11 wins in the season he won 9. Except I believe Saban would have done it faster.
Look- I think we all get the Disney World vs. Kennywood argument. Everyone understands it is easier in general to recruit at one of the bigger Florida schools or in Texas or even at Clemson and Alabama... and I would be a little surprised If Saban took such a job, but that does not change my belief that he would win 10 or 11 games pretty quickly in the ACC coastal with his coaching ability, the staff he would bring, and the fact that he has won more Nation Campionshios than every current coach in the ACC & Big Ten combined.
You don’t think there are more than a handful of top tier kids willing to go play for that kind of coach, even if it means going to Kennywood instead of Disney World?
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No I’m sure he’d end up just like Narduzzi and not move the needle. Because obviously the only thing holding Narduzzi back is Pitt. He’s a fantastic head coach. Hell he’d be the next Saban at a real program.....
And I’m sure all the things that has made Saban the top head coach in college football wouldnt make any difference at Pitt.....
I do think DW did land some good players for sure. But, I do think his recruiting was overrated and incomplete just like every other coach we've had here since and before him. He struggled to recruit QB's, LB's, and OL. His DB's, DL, and RB's were very good.
You suggest that if Nick was coaching those same teams, his record would've been better. I agree. The Big East was a complete laughing stock and the ACC is most definitely a better conference.
The team that you reference that won 10 games under DW was also on the brink of only winning 7 or 8 as well.
You and I both believe Nick is a tremendous coach. I think he's got tremendous schemes and does a great job teaching. But, there are dozen's of guys who do just as good of teaching and implementing great systems all over the place. The difference is Nick's 4th string guard is a 5 star who is chomping at the bit to move up the depth chart to take another 5 star's job. Listen, I had this same conversation with Jeremy Pruitt when he landed one of my former players. I said what is the difference between have's and the have not's? He said the "haves' litter their roster with the elite of the elite knowing a good portion won't make it." The "have-not's are the ones who replace ordinary talent with ordinary talent." Pruitt said it best after his 1st year at Tennessee in that "I didn't forget how to coach defense when I came to Tennessee after leaving Bama, the difference is I had a race car in every garage." Jimmy Johnson said it best - "if I have to teach you how to change directions and run, I can't coach you." In other words, "I can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit."
You would be just a "little" surprised if a coach like Saban/Dabo/Meyer, etc would take a job like PITT? Seriously, I think the national consensus would be floored if they did.
Here's my final thought, if Saban or Dabo would never ever take a job like PITT why do you think top tier kids would come when they're being courted by the Clemson's, Ohio State's, Alabama's, etc.... The logic is the same.
I saw an interview with Saban once where he said he may not be the smartest coach, but nobody will work harder than him at recruiting. And that's what he has done, built a recruiting juggernaut.
I think Saban's tenacity on the recruiting trail would pay off big. I don't see him losing the Foster's, Jurkovecs, Hudson. Plus he has managed the churn of assistants at Alabama extremely well. Of course that is easier when you have a bunch of 5 star recruits.
Note: Pitt under Sherrill was close to this. If you were in the hot tub too long, you were in danger of being passed by a hot shot freshman recruit. Willie Collier was the starting WR I think Marino's sophomore year. Got hurt, they put Dwight Collins in, and you never heard from Willie Collier again.
His empire at Bama is a machine only matched by a few. Does he work hard - sure. Does he have an army of personnel that do a ton of the leg work - yes. He would not be afforded this at PITT. At Navy's clinic, Ken Niumatololo said that he accompanied his son on his recruiting trip to Bama and it was just a "machine" from the time you step on campus.
We've had bulldog's on the recruiting trail before and some have done well and some have done poorly. What exactly would Saban sell a kid that Dabo or for that matter James Franklin couldn't exceed?
Yes, that's why I have said many times that one man riding in on the white horse isn't going to save the program. It is a total top to bottom commitment that is necessary.
Everywhere he has been at the college level, Saban has found a way to get it done. Pitt is no exception. And his self-deprecating "I may not be the smartest coach" is just his own cornball attempt to conceal the fact that he knows he's the smartest coach out there. he is a highly organized, type-A-plus, uber-competetive, win or die trying head coach.
true, but he wasn't so smart with the Dolphins, so I think there is something to him realizing that killing it on the recruiting trail and have the top-down support from the university are keys to his success moreso than coaching acumen.
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