Thursday Pitt Basketball Poll 7/30/20!!

[PittPoker]

So after the whole Hood-Schifino decommit saga I figured I'd ask what you guys thought about Capel's recruiting overall.

Here's my quick take. Maybe I had higher expectations but I have expected a bit more. Not a whole whole lot more but honestly I thought that by now he would have gotten a top 50 player for us. I mean as I mentioned in a previous poll, the main reason I was happy that Capel got hired because of his reputation in the recruiting front.

His first class rushed was fine, no issues and actually exceeded my expectations. But year 2 honestly he whiffed on quite a few guys we really needed. And if it wasn't for Champagnie seemingly coming out of nowhere to stand out the class really wasn't rated high. And the jury is still out on some. His 3rd class upcoming looks to be a good one. Hopefully. And then the decomittment of Hood-Schifino just the other day is a real bummer.

So for me maybe I was more optimistic but I thought he would be getting slightly better players by now to come here. I still have confidence in his ability to recruit and yes I know we're not Kansas or Kentucky. I am just now a little more worried that he won't be able to up the game so to speak. Again I'll bring up Champagnie, yes he turned out to be a hidden gem but his offers were nothing special and he wasn't even in the top 200 of rivals recruits. We just lucked out there.

So I say YES I expected more from Capel based on his reputation. Yes Stallings was terrible but it's not like we have no history of having top 10 teams, top seeded teams in the NCAA, etc... it's not like Capel is recruiting at Rutgers or something.

 

[TheLogicalTake]

I expected better. I’m a bit iffy on this past class as, outside of Jeffress and Hugley, I think the fringe top 25 ranking was a bit more on quantity over quality. I was actually more impressed with the guys he put together on short notice in year 1, but with McGowens leaving it’s tough to give that class full marks. Unless he pulls some instant impact guys in the next class or two, his fate is going to largely be tied to the development of Champagnie, Jeffress, and Hugley. They can’t afford another major contributor taking a step back like we saw with Johnson and, to an extent, McGowens.

I’ve noticed people keep trying cite success from the Howland/Dixon years and trying to big league schools like Rutgers in these threads and it’s baffling. Folks, those days are done and thanks to all the football/network money floating around the B10 and SEC, you’re seeing alot of non-traditional schools figure out how basketball works. In my opinion, Pitt needs to isolate on one recruiting area and hire an absolute killer recruiter/assistant with deep ties to that area. The programs you’re seeing rise are doing so largely because they’re planting a flag in one area and saying “we’re not letting the kids we target get out of here” and they have the connections to do it. That would be project 1A for me if I were Capel.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I expected better. I’m a bit iffy on this past class as, outside of Jeffress and Hugley, I think the fringe top 25 ranking was a bit more on quantity over quality. I was actually more impressed with the guys he put together on short notice in year 1, but with McGowens leaving it’s tough to give that class full marks. Unless he pulls some instant impact guys in the next class or two, his fate is going to largely be tied to the development of Champagnie, Jeffress, and Hugley. They can’t afford another major contributor taking a step back like we saw with Johnson and, to an extent, McGowens.

I’ve noticed people keep trying cite success from the Howland/Dixon years and trying to big league schools like Rutgers in these threads and it’s baffling. Folks, those days are done and thanks to all the football/network money floating around the B10 and SEC, you’re seeing alot of non-traditional schools figure out how basketball works. In my opinion, Pitt needs to isolate on one recruiting area and hire and absolute killer recruiter/assistant with deep ties to that area. The programs you’re seeing rise are doing so largely because they’re planting a flag in one area and saying “we’re not letting the kids we target get out of here” and they have the connections to do it. That would be project 1A for me if I were Capel.

100 percent the ranking was on quantity and not quality.

It’s not a bad class, but it was ranked higher because of quantity. Obviously the truth.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

So after the whole Hood-Schifino decommit saga I figured I'd ask what you guys thought about Capel's recruiting overall.

Here's my quick take. Maybe I had higher expectations but I have expected a bit more. Not a whole whole lot more but honestly I thought that by now he would have gotten a top 50 player for us. I mean as I mentioned in a previous poll, the main reason I was happy that Capel got hired because of his reputation in the recruiting front.

His first class rushed was fine, no issues and actually exceeded my expectations. But year 2 honestly he whiffed on quite a few guys we really needed. And if it wasn't for Champagnie seemingly coming out of nowhere to stand out the class really wasn't rated high. And the jury is still out on some. His 3rd class upcoming looks to be a good one. Hopefully. And then the decomittment of Hood-Schifino just the other day is a real bummer.

So for me maybe I was more optimistic but I thought he would be getting slightly better players by now to come here. I still have confidence in his ability to recruit and yes I know we're not Kansas or Kentucky. I am just now a little more worried that he won't be able to up the game so to speak. Again I'll bring up Champagnie, yes he turned out to be a hidden gem but his offers were nothing special and he wasn't even in the top 200 of rivals recruits. We just lucked out there.

So I say YES I expected more from Capel based on his reputation. Yes Stallings was terrible but it's not like we have no history of having top 10 teams, top seeded teams in the NCAA, etc... it's not like Capel is recruiting at Rutgers or something.

Regarding the Rutgers comment, I was the poster who said they were doing a great job and he was a great coach. Imagine what Pikiell could be doing at a real job.

 

[TheLogicalTake]

Regarding the Rutgers comment, I was the poster who said they were doing a great job and he was a great coach. Imagine what Pikiell could be doing at a real job.

Outstanding coach. The smartest thing Rutgers has ever done was extending Pikiell and building in a massive buy out clause before St Johns and UConn opened up.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Voted no. I wasn't expecting Capel, or anyone else Pitt would be able to hire, to recruit any better than Dixon did during his time of greatest W-L success. It appears, IMHO, that Capel is matching and possibly exceeding that prior level of Dixon recruiting. So, for the moment, I am satisfied with the recruiting.

On another note, and I may very well be looking at things through my blue and gold tinted glasses, IMHO, the guys in this incoming class's guys not named Hugley and Jeffress are going to, over time, prove to be better players than their ratings. I tend to believe at least one of them--possibly Collier, will be provide an immediate positive surprise like Champagnie did last season.

 

[Coachkirsch]

I love coach Capel first of all. I hope he stays at Pitt for a long time. I am disappointed that he has struck out on every 6'11" center that he tried to get. I know he has Hughly and Amounson (sp) but all the big centers went elsewhere. My only gripe.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitt bb was spiraling into a deep dark abyss even before before our pal KS took over . JDs last few classes were bad , and yes I consider the Kithcart class JDs . JC took over a winless mess of an ACC program and as bad as they were he lost the 3 best players from that team . Now explain to me how without a huge slush fund your going to convince ACC quality recruits to come to Pitt and lose ? Pitt wasn’t a player or two away from respectability they were a roster away ! One must also remember that every potential recruit he had a personal relationship with was a Duke level recruit .
Considering the time he had to assemble and the circumstances surrounding the program his first class was exceptional , he did get a little lucky in that X far exceeded expectations . Last yr class wasn’t what I expected , but Justin like X far exceeded expectations . I’m very optimistic about this yrs class and losing faint because a 16 yr old kid changed his mind because he’s getting attention from the elite programs seems silly . Who in their right mind chooses Pitt over an elite program ?
Bringing Pitt back to respectability is a process and in my mind they’re about right where they should be . Now it’s time to win a few more conference games and as the on court performance improves so will the recruits .

 

[Millerton]

Just slightly yes, but really just nitpicking. Frontcourt should have better depth

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Pitt bb was spiraling into a deep dark abyss even before before our pal KS took over . JDs last few classes were bad , and yes I consider the Kithcart class JDs . JC took over a winless mess of an ACC program and as bad as they were he lost the 3 best players from that team . Now explain to me how without a huge slush fund your going to convince ACC quality recruits to come to Pitt and lose ? Pitt wasn’t a player or two away from respectability they were a roster away ! One must also remember that every potential recruit he had a personal relationship with was a Duke level recruit .
Considering the time he had to assemble and the circumstances surrounding the program his first class was exceptional , he did get a little lucky in that X far exceeded expectations . Last yr class wasn’t what I expected , but Justin like X far exceeded expectations . I’m very optimistic about this yrs class and losing faint because a 16 yr old kid changed his mind because he’s getting attention from the elite programs seems silly . Who in their right mind chooses Pitt over an elite program ?
Bringing Pitt back to respectability is a process and in my mind they’re about right where they should be . Now it’s time to win a few more conference games and as the on court performance improves so will the recruits .

1. Capel was known as the bag man at Duke. Other fan bases think he paid for Toney and McGowens. “Slush funds” ain’t the problem
2. For what seems like the 80 trillionth time. We went to the ncaa tournament... were returning 4 starters including a future lottery pick. Man did Dixon’s tenure get bad!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I like the current class we have coming in. But overall, I voted "no". It is not that I think he is doing poorly, I just thought he would do a bit better than he has. We seem to be in tight with some really top talent but then they fade away.

 

[TheChair]

I like the current class we have coming in. But overall, I voted "no". It is not that I think he is doing poorly, I just thought he would do a bit better than he has. We seem to be in tight with some really top talent but then they fade away.

I agree with you completely here. I expected more from him, especially at the guard position. But, I think he has done fine in total.

With hindsight, I think it is more clear that Pitt's program was a wreck before he started.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I like the current class we have coming in. But overall, I voted "no". It is not that I think he is doing poorly, I just thought he would do a bit better than he has. We seem to be in tight with some really top talent but then they fade away.

I'm in the same boat. Unable to close the big ones, which I hope changes. I thought he might be the guy who could do that here.

Funny, because at work we've been looking into why we're losing so many big deals and only winning the smaller ones. Same situation.

 

[Pittisit4me]

I love coach Capel first of all. I hope he stays at Pitt for a long time. I am disappointed that he has struck out on every 6'11" center that he tried to get. I know he has Hughly and Amounson (sp) but all the big centers went elsewhere. My only gripe.

Totally agree. So happy to have Jeff Capel! I only voted yes because of him striking out on all bigs the prior recruiting cycle. I thought for sure we were going to wind up with Qudus Wahab, which would have made me pretty happy. Other than that, I really like this class and look forward to the program improving so he can land some top 50's.

 

[pittjas]

I like the current class we have coming in. But overall, I voted "no". It is not that I think he is doing poorly, I just thought he would do a bit better than he has. We seem to be in tight with some really top talent but then they fade away.

haha I agree with your post but your post doesn’t seem to line up with what you said you voted.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

1. Capel was known as the bag man at Duke. Other fan bases think he paid for Toney and McGowens. “Slush funds” ain’t the problem
2. For what seems like the 80 trillionth time. We went to the ncaa tournament... were returning 4 starters including a future lottery pick. Man did Dixon’s tenure get bad!

What you fail to realize I was a big fan of JDs , but I didn’t see the programs direction as you do .Pitt was headed to the bottom of the ACC if his recruiting didn’t magically improve . JD had one more good yr left at Pitt , but after the seniors left Pitt would’ve been bad the following season , not KS bad ,but bad . After Young and Artis and co left the returning players would’ve been Cam , Luther , Nix , Wilson , Milligan , Wilson , Clark , Kithcart and Mangault . That is if Kithcart and Mangault could’ve not gone thrown out of the university . The only place your taking that team is to the bottom of the ACC .

Cams play at Pitt never resembled an NBA first round pick . Plus ironically Cam was only taken by JD because he couldn’t find anyone else to take the spot and Luther was also only offered after all JDs priorities went elsewhere .


You keep throwing out that JC was a bagman and that Pitt paid for Toney and Trey , those are serious accusations, where’s your proof ?

Wouldn’t JC sign a jersey for you ?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

What you fail to realize I was a big fan of JDs , but I didn’t see the programs direction as you do .Pitt was headed to the bottom of the ACC if his recruiting didn’t magically improve . JD had one more good yr left at Pitt , but after the seniors left Pitt would’ve been bad the following season , not KS bad ,but bad . After Young and Artis and co left the returning players would’ve been Cam , Luther , Nix , Wilson , Milligan , Wilson , Clark , Kithcart and Mangault . That is if Kithcart and Mangault could’ve not gone thrown out of the university . The only place your taking that team is to the bottom of the ACC .

Cams play at Pitt never resembled an NBA first round pick . Plus ironically Cam was only taken by JD because he couldn’t find anyone else to take the spot and Luther was also only offered after all JDs priorities went elsewhere .


You keep throwing out that JC was a bagman and that Pitt paid for Toney and Trey , those are serious accusations, where’s your proof ?

Wouldn’t JC sign a jersey for you ?

I never said Pitt paid for Toney or Trey. I said that other ACC programs think that. Everyone knows that this was rumored. Lol at asking me for proof of something I didn’t even accuse.

So you don’t pay attention to college basketball... like at all? Capel joked about it on his own instagram page while at Duke. You’re a really odd dude, man.

you are right. We never lose a recruit unless someone else paid and we don’t pay. I admit it.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I never said Pitt paid for Toney or Trey. I said that other ACC programs think that. Everyone knows that this was rumored. Lol at asking me for proof of something I didn’t even accuse.

So you don’t pay attention to college basketball... like at all? Capel joked about it on his own instagram page while at Duke. You’re a really odd dude, man.

you are right. We never lose a recruit unless someone else paid and we don’t pay. I admit it.

You just keep bringing up the Toney / Trey and JC bagman accusations , why ?

Pitt loses potential recruits for multiple reasons , but the biggest reason is that there’s just a lot of better programs than Pitt .

Your distain for JC is so obvious , I got bad news for you , he’s here for as long as he wants .

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

You just keep bringing up the Toney / Trey and JC bagman accusations , why ?

Pitt loses potential recruits for multiple reasons , but the biggest reason is that there’s just a lot of better programs than Pitt .

Your distain for JC is so obvious , I got bad news for you , he’s here for as long as he wants .

I went to Capel’s introductory press conference and came away very impressed. Think he has a lot of potential then and think he does now. It’s his staff who sucks. And I’ve said that multiple times and never changed from that. Just so we’re clear on that.

He isn’t here as long as he wants. If they somehow don’t make a tourney by year 5, he will be on hot seat in year 6. You saying he’ll be here as long as he wants means nothing. It’s just simply not true. And if Heather were to ever leave, it may be a quicker leash than that.

I think it is the height of laziness to assume every time we don’t get a recruit or a recruit decommits it’s because of money and it is frustrating to no end. It is excuse making for the sake of excuse making.

I have no idea if Capel has ever paid for someone at Pitt and frankly don’t care. That’s part of the game. I think it’s funny you consistently use that as an excuse for not getting the highest recruits when he himself joked about being the bag man at Duke on his own IG (see post that says #Duffelbagboyz) and other fan bases have hurled that regarding the McGowens/Toney recruitments based on his history/their recruitments. I have no idea if he did and literally do not care. Are you familiar with his tenure at Oklahoma at all? It’s what major players do. Who cares? Stop using it as an excuse and we won’t need to do this ever again.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I went to Capel’s introductory press conference and came away very impressed. Think he has a lot of potential then and think he does now. It’s his staff who sucks. And I’ve said that multiple times and never changed from that. Just so we’re clear on that.

He isn’t here as long as he wants. If they somehow don’t make a tourney by year 5, he will be on hot seat in year 6. You saying he’ll be here as long as he wants means nothing. It’s just simply not true. And if Heather were to ever leave, it may be a quicker leash than that.

I think it is the height of laziness to assume every time we don’t get a recruit or a recruit decommits it’s because of money and it is frustrating to no end. It is excuse making for the sake of excuse making.

I have no idea if Capel has ever paid for someone at Pitt and frankly don’t care. That’s part of the game. I think it’s funny you consistently use that as an excuse for not getting the highest recruits when he himself joked about being the bag man at Duke on his own IG (see post that says #Duffelbagboyz) and other fan bases have hurled that regarding the McGowens/Toney recruitments based on his history/their recruitments. I have no idea if he did and literally do not care. Are you familiar with his tenure at Oklahoma at all? It’s what major players do. Who cares? Stop using it as an excuse and we won’t need to do this ever again.

Somehow you read words and come to far different conclusions then the words mean . I’m sure there are cases were extra benefits sway a recruit to different schools , like M Heron to Auburn or Rowan to NCS , but the reason for recruits going elsewhere have more to do with the state of the Pitt bb program . Why go to a losing program that produces very few NBA level players and then there’s far better campuses to spend your college yrs than Oakland ? As JC builds a winning program , as he is , the recruits will continue to improve . Somehow you think that they should be far better than they currently are , I don’t .

As far as his staff goes that’s a coaches decision, he knows his longevity partially depends upon it and if happy with them and trusts them I’ll go with that over your opinion .

As far as his tenure here I believe he will continue to improve the on court performance of the Panthers and they will become a very good program under his leadership . Pitt has continued to accept the less than stellar performance of PN and the Fb program why would the bb program be any different ? IMO JC performance will far exceed that of PN .

Your the one who constantly harps on his Ok days and the rumors of payments to Toney and Trey . If they’re paying for recruits they’re not being very effective at it !

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Pitt bb was spiraling into a deep dark abyss even before before our pal KS took over . JDs last few classes were bad , and yes I consider the Kithcart class JDs . JC took over a winless mess of an ACC program and as bad as they were he lost the 3 best players from that team . Now explain to me how without a huge slush fund your going to convince ACC quality recruits to come to Pitt and lose ? Pitt wasn’t a player or two away from respectability they were a roster away ! One must also remember that every potential recruit he had a personal relationship with was a Duke level recruit .
Considering the time he had to assemble and the circumstances surrounding the program his first class was exceptional , he did get a little lucky in that X far exceeded expectations . Last yr class wasn’t what I expected , but Justin like X far exceeded expectations . I’m very optimistic about this yrs class and losing faint because a 16 yr old kid changed his mind because he’s getting attention from the elite programs seems silly . Who in their right mind chooses Pitt over an elite program ?
Bringing Pitt back to respectability is a process and in my mind they’re about right where they should be . Now it’s time to win a few more conference games and as the on court performance improves so will the recruits .

Somehow you read words and come to far different conclusions then the words mean . I’m sure there are cases were extra benefits sway a recruit to different schools , like M Heron to Auburn or Rowan to NCS , but the reason for recruits going elsewhere have more to do with the state of the Pitt bb program . Why go to a losing program that produces very few NBA level players and then there’s far better campuses to spend your college yrs than Oakland ? As JC builds a winning program , as he is , the recruits will continue to improve . Somehow you think that they should be far better than they currently are , I don’t .

As far as his staff goes that’s a coaches decision, he knows his longevity partially depends upon it and if happy with them and trusts them I’ll go with that over your opinion .

As far as his tenure here I believe he will continue to improve the on court performance of the Panthers and they will become a very good program under his leadership . Pitt has continued to accept the less than stellar performance of PN and the Fb program why would the bb program be any different ? IMO JC performance will far exceed that of PN .

Your the one who constantly harps on his Ok days and the rumors of payments to Toney and Trey . If they’re paying for recruits they’re not being very effective at it !

You literally say in the first post quoted that Pitt doesn’t have a huge slush fund meaning other people must be paying because Pitt isn’t to excuse multiple misses, particularly in bigs and PGs.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

You literally say in the first post quoted that Pitt doesn’t have a huge slush fund meaning other people must be paying because Pitt isn’t to excuse multiple misses, particularly in bigs and PGs.

To that end, Rick Pitino just landed a 4 star center in 21.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

To that end, Rick Pitino just landed a 4 star center in 21.

Only a four star? Maybe the virus is affecting the size of the bag he carries around.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Only a four star? Maybe the virus is affecting the size of the bag he carries around.

Lol he didn’t pay for this kid. I don’t think Trey James is that good (I’ve seen him play multiple times in person). Doesn’t move all that well, back to the basket traditional center. He’s just tall and mildly skilled. From Kentucky where obviously rick is a legend. I think he made a pretty good choice actually. Iowa was the other choice and despite their success with Garza I don’t think he compares favorably to him.