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Bethlehemjohn

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Jul 6, 2001
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-We are in every game, but just do too many stupid things that prevent us from winning.
-Making less than 50% of our FT's is just inacceptable. Near the end of the game, X misses 2 in a row again and then we miss 3 of 4 on one possession after Kham comes up with a nice rebound and gets fouled. Then Toney bails out their freshman Wright and he goes to the line and calmly drains both as an under 50% FT shooter.
-McGowens and Toney continue to drive everything to the hoop even against 2, 3 and 4 guys. Early in the year, we said it was gritty and they had moxey. Now, it is just plain stupid.
-The freshman excuse and freshman wall thing is getting overplayed too. We are better than GT. We are better than Wake. And we are better than BC, but we constantly make stupid mistakes and we don't learn from them. Every time we play ourselves into a game, we play ourselves right back out of it with a bad offensive possession or one to 2 defensive possessions where we just flat out lose a guy and leave them wide open. And all of these teams have made us pay.
-And here is where some may jump on what I am about to say. I really don't believe that this team has improved one bit over our 10 game losing streak and that isn't just on the players. When you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again, it isn't just on the players. They must be coached better to not lose focus in big moments, to be able to step to the line and hit a big FT, to box out better on rebounds, and to not force play after play after play. These little things have not improved one bit and that is on the coaches.
 
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Bethlehemjohn said:
-We are in every game, but just do too many stupid things that prevent us from winning.
-Making less than 50% of our FT's is just inacceptable. Near the end of the game, X misses 2 in a row again and then we miss 3 of 4 on one possession after Kham comes up with a nice rebound and gets fouled. Then Toney bails out their freshman Wright and he goes to the line and calmly drains both as an under 50% FT shooter.
-McGowens and Toney continue to drive everything to the hoop even against 2, 3 and 4 guys. Early in the year, we said it was gritty and they had moxey. Now, it is just plain stupid.
-The freshman excuse and freshman wall thing is getting overplayed too. We are better than GT. We are better than Wake. And we are better than BC, but we constantly make stupid mistakes and we don't learn from them. Every time we play ourselves into a game, we play ourselves right back out of it with a bad offensive possession or one to 2 defensive possessions where we just flat out lose a guy and leave them wide open. And all of these teams have made us pay.
-And here is where some may jump on what I am about to say. I really don't believe that this team has improved one bit over our 10 game losing streak and that isn't just on the players. When you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again, it isn't just on the players. They must be coached better to not lose focus in big moments, to be able to step to the line and hit a big FT, to box out better on rebounds, and to not force play after play after play. These little things have not improved one bit and that is on the coaches.
Click to expand...
What player on this team can you say has gotten better? X has been really good all year.
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
Sidy and kham.
Click to expand...
I don't know that I agree. Kham has shown flashes in the past and still puts up a fair share of clunkers.

I think Sidy has been solid all year. The injury just derailed him for awhile. He wasn't playing enough early on, but you could see it. He was a good player at New Mexico State. I can't really argue Sidy, though. He's a nice player and would have been awesome off the bench on our good teams from a decade ago. If we'd have had him as a transfer instead of Jermaine Dixon, we'd have net clippings in a trophy case somewhere.
 
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DC_Area_Panther said:
Not many other options given the rest of our crew.
Click to expand...


The other option is to stop dribbling before you get yourself into trouble. An open eight footer is always a better choice than a contested two footer when the guy contesting you shot is 6-8 inches taller than you are.
 
FireballZ said:
I don't know that I agree. Kham has shown flashes in the past and still puts up a fair share of clunkers.

I think Sidy has been solid all year. The injury just derailed him for awhile. He wasn't playing enough early on, but you could see it. He was a good player at New Mexico State. I can't really argue Sidy, though. He's a nice player and would have been awesome off the bench on our good teams from a decade ago.
Click to expand...
Kham’s On ball defense and pressure have improved.

There’s two sides of the court
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
Kham’s On ball defense and pressure have improved.

There’s two sides of the court
Click to expand...
Can't argue. I thought Kham was our best perimeter defender last year (not saying much) and I haven't watched him closely enough on defense this year to refute. I've admittedly missed a few of last handful of games. Only caught the "high"lights.
 
Bethlehemjohn said:
-We are in every game, but just do too many stupid things that prevent us from winning.
-Making less than 50% of our FT's is just inacceptable. Near the end of the game, X misses 2 in a row again and then we miss 3 of 4 on one possession after Kham comes up with a nice rebound and gets fouled. Then Toney bails out their freshman Wright and he goes to the line and calmly drains both as an under 50% FT shooter.
-McGowens and Toney continue to drive everything to the hoop even against 2, 3 and 4 guys. Early in the year, we said it was gritty and they had moxey. Now, it is just plain stupid.
-The freshman excuse and freshman wall thing is getting overplayed too. We are better than GT. We are better than Wake. And we are better than BC, but we constantly make stupid mistakes and we don't learn from them. Every time we play ourselves into a game, we play ourselves right back out of it with a bad offensive possession or one to 2 defensive possessions where we just flat out lose a guy and leave them wide open. And all of these teams have made us pay.
-And here is where some may jump on what I am about to say. I really don't believe that this team has improved one bit over our 10 game losing streak and that isn't just on the players. When you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again, it isn't just on the players. They must be coached better to not lose focus in big moments, to be able to step to the line and hit a big FT, to box out better on rebounds, and to not force play after play after play. These little things have not improved one bit and that is on the coaches.
Click to expand...
Been saying that for a month now
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
The other option is to stop dribbling before you get yourself into trouble. An open eight footer is always a better choice than a contested two footer when the guy contesting you shot is 6-8 inches taller than you are.
Click to expand...

Still trying to get more free throws I expect. I suspect Capel wants them to continue to do it but just a little more judiciously. I sense that It is being done less frequently than earlier in the ACC season. But, that is just my impression, I could be wrong. Let’s see what happens next year when there are (hopefully) higher quality bigs to feed the ball to inside. If it persists then I will agree with your take more fully.
 
FireballZ said:
I don't know that I agree. Kham has shown flashes in the past and still puts up a fair share of clunkers.

I think Sidy has been solid all year. The injury just derailed him for awhile. He wasn't playing enough early on, but you could see it. He was a good player at New Mexico State. I can't really argue Sidy, though. He's a nice player and would have been awesome off the bench on our good teams from a decade ago. If we'd have had him as a transfer instead of Jermaine Dixon, we'd have net clippings in a trophy case somewhere.
Click to expand...
Kham passed up a layup and missed two others. He passed up open threes and missed foul shots. He needs to play with a lot more confidence and aggression to be effective.

Ndir looks better than his stats, but his shooting percentages are awful.
 
Bethlehemjohn said:
-We are in every game, but just do too many stupid things that prevent us from winning.
-Making less than 50% of our FT's is just inacceptable. Near the end of the game, X misses 2 in a row again and then we miss 3 of 4 on one possession after Kham comes up with a nice rebound and gets fouled. Then Toney bails out their freshman Wright and he goes to the line and calmly drains both as an under 50% FT shooter.
-McGowens and Toney continue to drive everything to the hoop even against 2, 3 and 4 guys. Early in the year, we said it was gritty and they had moxey. Now, it is just plain stupid.
-The freshman excuse and freshman wall thing is getting overplayed too. We are better than GT. We are better than Wake. And we are better than BC, but we constantly make stupid mistakes and we don't learn from them. Every time we play ourselves into a game, we play ourselves right back out of it with a bad offensive possession or one to 2 defensive possessions where we just flat out lose a guy and leave them wide open. And all of these teams have made us pay.
-And here is where some may jump on what I am about to say. I really don't believe that this team has improved one bit over our 10 game losing streak and that isn't just on the players. When you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again, it isn't just on the players. They must be coached better to not lose focus in big moments, to be able to step to the line and hit a big FT, to box out better on rebounds, and to not force play after play after play. These little things have not improved one bit and that is on the coaches.
Click to expand...
I guess the honeymoon is over
 
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gary2 said:
So, how can you play someone like that? And I guess he didn't play much in the second half.
Click to expand...


He didn't play much in the second half. But what else can you do but play him? When you have a team with very little depth you've got to play someone. And N'dir has done some good things lately, it's just that shooting the three is most certainly not one of them. So you play him, and if he plays well you play him more and if he plays poorly, like he generally did tonight, you play him less.
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
He didn't play much in the second half. But what else can you do but play him? When you have a team with very little depth you've got to play someone. And N'dir has done some good things lately, it's just that shooting the three is most certainly not one of them. So you play him, and if he plays well you play him more and if he plays poorly, like he generally did tonight, you play him less.
Click to expand...
We just don’t have options.
I mean that Ellison keeps getting minutes is enough to prove that.

And I think brown literally fell asleep mid game a few times on defense- which is braggable.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
He didn't play much in the second half. But what else can you do but play him? When you have a team with very little depth you've got to play someone. And N'dir has done some good things lately, it's just that shooting the three is most certainly not one of them. So you play him, and if he plays well you play him more and if he plays poorly, like he generally did tonight, you play him less.
Click to expand...
Interested in your thoughts here. After watching the last 4 games what would be your lineup and rotatation?

Also, at this point in the season, why not just forget zone and play man and really go after it on defense. I am tired of seeing opponents knock down wide open threes.
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
He didn't play much in the second half. But what else can you do but play him? When you have a team with very little depth you've got to play someone. And N'dir has done some good things lately, it's just that shooting the three is most certainly not one of them. So you play him, and if he plays well you play him more and if he plays poorly, like he generally did tonight, you play him less.
Click to expand...
What do you think is our best defensive lineup?
 
Ya I agree that Pitt just does do way too many stupid things down the stretch in these games when they are close in the last 4-5 minutes each time that prevents them from winning. Hopefully better days are ahead and I think they will be but at the same time these last 4-5 games Pitt has lost and have been right in the game each time with a chance to win in the last few minutes are getting frustrating as hell to watch from a fans perspective.
 
I've mentioned the coaching on this team hasn't really been good and it seems you can't really criticize Capel on here. Glad he's here over Stallings but it's puzzling and concerning that they still look so inept against a zone. Ellison has been hurt. So what are they doing in practice and who is replacing Malik in the middle? And as John wrote, why is Trey especially still trying to take on 4 players driving to the hoop? The fouls aren't being called anymore and the play now looks extremely reckless. Lots of questions for the staff, even though they obviously are a huge upgrade over the Stallings regime.
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
I would still say Brown over Chukwuka, but I think the other four are obviously correct.

But that's also clearly not the best lineup to try to win the game.
Click to expand...
I don't know. Stick Kham and Toney in the corners for threes. Have X and Trey driving and shooting threes out front. Have Kene for pick and roll.

This is unfair to Frame, but he is gone next season.
 
Bethlehemjohn said:
I still like this team, but they can be very frustrating. Last year's shitty team actually improved more than this team has.
Click to expand...
Not sure I’d agree but I understand your intentions with this statement.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
I would still say Brown over Chukwuka, but I think the other four are obviously correct.

But that's also clearly not the best lineup to try to win the game.
Click to expand...
Maybe Sidy instead of Kham too. Maybe.

Brown vs Kene is a tough call. Brown’s shot blocking sure helps, but he basically does not defend anywhere else on the court.
 
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DT_PITT said:
Maybe Sidy instead of Kham too. Maybe.

Brown vs Kene is a tough call. Brown’s shot blocking sure helps, but he basically does not defend anywhere else on the court.
Click to expand...
He's not ACC level...and some of the blocks happen because opponents have no fear. Blind squirrel/acorn. He simply has no instinct...or energy.
 
NTOP said:
He's not ACC level...and some of the blocks happen because opponents have no fear. Blind squirrel/acorn. He simply has no instinct...or energy.
Click to expand...
Capel needed to bring in someone for the front court last year. It would also have helped if he could have gotten something out of Stevenson.
 
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Bethlehemjohn said:
We are better than GT. We are better than Wake. And we are better than BC, but we constantly make stupid mistakes and we don't learn from them.


-And here is where some may jump on what I am about to say. I really don't believe that this team has improved one bit over our 10 game losing streak and that isn't just on the players. When you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again, it isn't just on the players. They must be coached better to not lose focus in big moments, to be able to step to the line and hit a big FT, to box out better on rebounds, and to not force play after play after play. These little things have not improved one bit and that is on the coaches.
Click to expand...
Pitt isn’t better than the teams that have beaten them ! Sure those were winnable games , but the other team got the W . They didn’t lose on freakish plays , they lost by making the same mistakes and poor shooting .

Coaching can only do so much . The coaches don’t throw up brick after brick from 3 and miss FTs . If this was yr 3 or 4 of JC reign and they were all his players then I’m with you , it’s on the coaches , this is yr 1 .
You need the players to win and Pitts not there yet . Did Coach K coach a bad game last night or did a Zionless Duke just not have enough talent to beat an experienced UNC team ?
 
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Fsgolfdr said:
Pitt isn’t better than the teams that have beaten them ! Sure those were winnable games , but the other team got the W . They didn’t lose on freakish plays , they lost by making the same mistakes and poor shooting .

Coaching can only do so much . The coaches don’t throw up brick after brick from 3 and miss FTs . If this was yr 3 or 4 of JC reign and they were all his players then I’m with you , it’s on the coaches , this is yr 1 .
You need the players to win and Pitts not there yet . Did Coach K coach a bad game last night or did a Zionless Duke just not have enough talent to beat an experienced UNC team ?
Click to expand...

GT and Wake had more talent but missing 2 starters and Chatman for the 2nd half, that BC team was less talented than us even with Bowman.
 
Fsgolfdr said:
Pitt has three freshman who are the heart of the team and two of them are struggling .
Click to expand...
X is struggling a bit, too. He's basically the whole show right now, except for JWF.
 
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NTOP said:
X is struggling a bit, too. He's basically the whole show right now, except for JWF.
Click to expand...
I was trying to be a little less negative ! X seems to have the ability to get his pts as compared to the other two , but other teams have caught on how to defend him . I hope all three work hard on their pull up jumpers this off season .
 
Fsgolfdr said:
Pitt isn’t better than the teams that have beaten them ! Sure those were winnable games , but the other team got the W . They didn’t lose on freakish plays , they lost by making the same mistakes and poor shooting .

Coaching can only do so much . The coaches don’t throw up brick after brick from 3 and miss FTs . If this was yr 3 or 4 of JC reign and they were all his players then I’m with you , it’s on the coaches , this is yr 1 .
You need the players to win and Pitts not there yet . Did Coach K coach a bad game last night or did a Zionless Duke just not have enough talent to beat an experienced UNC team ?
Click to expand...


This has been a difficult thread and people are upset beause once again...we lost a game that was "winnable." I agree totally with what you said about us "not being
"better than the teams that have beaten us." Boston College, GT, and Wake...
bad as they are, have more talent than we do. Even so, we should have won
those games.
The last few games we've eaten more spaulding burgers than probably
any team in college ball this year (oops, nike burgers). We can't hit from
the outside, so we force the drives into the lane. Their bigs either block
our shots or foul us, but most of those fouls don't get called. The refs know
basketball, so when they see us force up off balanced shots at the rim,
they just let it go uncalled. Makes sense to me.
A lot of posters were calling for Toney in the middle against the zone. Well,
you saw the result...he can't hit the open foul line jumper, and his forced
drives get shoved back at him. The middle was open all night....my guess
X knows the result if we go there, so...he tries something else.

Are we playing "stupid" as some on here have posted. Yes, to a degree
we are, but these are freshmen playing with no, NONE inside game. We
have one outside threat in Frame, and the rest is hustle and effort. I too
am disappointed with last night but these guys are still fighting and I
don't fault the effort. I like these guys, and it's just a matter of a few Bigs
next year and things will turn around.
 
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