College sports are uniquely American. I believe it is because we invite student athletes into our community so when they spurn us, it is extremely insulting. They are now no better then a pro looking for a paycheck.
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Except for the paycheck partCollege sports are uniquely American. I believe it is because we invite student athletes into our community so when they spurn us, it is extremely insulting. They are now no better then a pro looking for a paycheck.
I agree. These players should have the freedom to transfer from week to week.Unpopular opinion, but I’m OK with the transfers. In fact, I’m in favor of even laxer rules. I believe they, the student athletes, have just as much a right to transfer to their school of choice as regular students do, regardless of the reason or frequency.
My friends from other countries really don't get the obsession with college sports.College sports are uniquely American. I believe it is because we invite student athletes into our community so when they spurn us, it is extremely insulting. They are now no better then a pro looking for a paycheck.
I don’t believe that was the argument that PittMan 72 was making, rather the other way around. I think he was trying to say that if student athletes from Alabama, Texas, etc. were to transfer to a school like Pitt and win national championships- AKA shift the balance of power in the college football/basketball landscape- then big money boosters from the “blue bloods” would pull money and less people would tune in, therefore losing television viewership. I don’t want to put words into his mouth, but I believe his perspective is that our (Pitt’s) increase in viewership wouldn’t make up for their (SEC, etc.) loss.
With that being, I don’t believe that would be the case, that mass transfers would be the “straw that breaks the camel’s back.”
Look at the amount of money (usually guaranteed for x number of years) coaches make them look at the guarantees the players have and ask yourself if you would rather be the coach or the player.Every time the system tips a little towards the athlete, there is a collective freak out.
Love the "make them sign a contract" group. There are so many reasons why that won't happen it's kind of funny that it keeps coming up. These kids are basically free paydays to the schools and never see anywhere close to the market value of their services. Allowing schools to stockpile talent based on whatever the coach promised isn't better for the kids. If the coaches don't like it, stop lying.
Correct. Mass transfers will turn off enough fans of the non-blue bloods that basketball revenue will decrease. Not football because football will never have anywhere near the transfer rate of basketball.
Completely disagree. players should be allowed to transfer anytime they want without penalty. There is no other college student that is penalized for transferring. Why should athletes be any different. Transferring because you are unhappy is no different than quitting your job and getting a new one. It is ridiculous that people think these athletes should be loyal at their own expense when literally no one else in society is held to the same standard.Basketball has turned into a joke. Football is only slightly behind. We have created a culture of..."if you don't give me the job, I won't work hard and will move elsewhere" mentality for 19 year old kids. This is unreal. Don't be surprised when schools begin to drop football in 5 years because they can't afford to recruit kids for 6 years or pay them. Football was getting ridiculous but now we are at a point of absurdity. I barely know a player in college basketball these days. They best players may play for 1.5 years tops.....hard to follow.
My friends from other countries really don't get the obsession with college sports.
I’m sure Messrs. Posvar and Billick would agree!The NCAA rules mandating rules to transfer has changed for the better. These players have every right to change schools if they wish......free country
Basketball has turned into a joke. Football is only slightly behind. We have created a culture of..."if you don't give me the job, I won't work hard and will move elsewhere" mentality for 19 year old kids. This is unreal. Don't be surprised when schools begin to drop football in 5 years because they can't afford to recruit kids for 6 years or pay them. Football was getting ridiculous but now we are at a point of absurdity. I barely know a player in college basketball these days. They best players may play for 1.5 years tops.....hard to follow.
Perhaps start your anguish with the professional Coaches who have no restraint of trade despite being well compensated ?Totally agree, I fear college football and college basketball are in a death spiral—unless the transfer rules are ramped back and the pay for play woke mania is beat down. But I have no confidence that the Supreme Court will exhibit any common sense or historical perspective.
The exploited athletes? Spare me. Relieve me of $200,000 in tuition debt, get me in a school I might not otherwise get into, and even as a non elite player with no pro career potential, give me local name recognition that will open many avenues of employment, and I guarantee you I wouldn’t feel exploited.
The elite jocks will make their money soon enough.
But I have no confidence that the Supreme Court will exhibit any common sense or historical perspective.
What else is there to do in friggin Tuscaloosa Alabama? Actually the whole state of Alabama
Totally agree, I fear college football and college basketball are in a death spiral—unless the transfer rules are ramped back and the pay for play woke mania is beat down. But I have no confidence that the Supreme Court will exhibit any common sense or historical perspective.
The exploited athletes? Spare me. Relieve me of $200,000 in tuition debt, get me in a school I might not otherwise get into, and even as a non elite player with no pro career potential, give me local name recognition that will open many avenues of employment, and I guarantee you I wouldn’t feel exploited.
The elite jocks will make their money soon enough.
Are you comparing amateur athletics to the free market?Perhaps start your anguish with the professional Coaches who have no restraint of trade despite being well compensated ?
You start with restricting their movement -
Then get back to me regarding the uncompensated amateurs .
likewise I will assume you have stayed in the first job you ever had - for loyalty to the institution
I agree. If there is something illegal about the college athletic scholarship system....tear it down. Otherwise it has worked the past 100 years.You know what would be even better? If the Supreme Court decided any and all cases base on the actual law, rather than on completely irrelevant things like "historical perspective".
Are you comparing amateur athletics to the free market?
I agree. If there is something illegal about the college athletic scholarship system....tear it down. Otherwise it has worked the past 100 years.
YesAre you comparing amateur athletics to the free market?
The ironic part is this case was requested by the ncaa to stop these states from changing the game .And that's the rub. There almost certainly ARE things about the college athletic scholarship system that are illegal. Which is why the NCAA is desperate to get legislative relief from Congress before the chickens come home to roost.
College athletes are not like any other student. The school heavily invests in the athletes and expect some return on their investment
They don't pay their tuition.
They don't pay for room and board.
They don't pay for extra tutoring.
In addition, they get extra perks that regular students don't get:
They get the expertise from coaches that train them to possibly become multi-millionaires. If not, they get the training to become head coaches at different levels. This is invaluable.
They travel and get television exposure. This may allow them to get an inside track on getting a broadcasting career (see Jay Bilas).
They get more than the average student and well they should for what they generate the school. True, the student athletes don't get paid, but that's a different subject.
If you don't limit the times an athlete can transfer, then you have chaos. It creates another avenue for teams to cheat.
Completely disagree. players should be allowed to transfer anytime they want without penalty. There is no other college student that is penalized for transferring. Why should athletes be any different. Transferring because you are unhappy is no different than quitting your job and getting a new one. It is ridiculous that people think these athletes should be loyal at their own expense when literally no one else in society is held to the same standard.
You realize that almost all of that is true about ANY student on campus on scholarship, right? They don't pay tuition, they don't pay room and board, in many cases they can get extra tutoring if they need it, they have access to leading academics in their field of study, and so on. And for the most part those people aren't generating lots of money for the school.
Does the school expect a return on that investment, and if not, what's the difference? The school is just as heavily, in fact in a lot of cases more heavily, invested in those students.
Not sure I understand your point. My point is two fold:
1. Scholarship students (especially athletic) are not the same as the average student.
Now, let’s be honest, a lot of athletes on scholarship would not be acceptable by the school as a regular students. They invest in these players for one reason - To generate revenue. That’s it. In addition, they get more perks other than the scholarship whereas students with other scholarships do not.
2. Allowing players to transfer anytime they want, will open up another opportunity for schools to cheat.
The exploited athletes? Spare me. Relieve me of $200,000 in tuition debt, get me in a school I might not otherwise get into, and even as a non elite player with no pro career potential, give me local name recognition that will open many avenues of employment, and I guarantee you I wouldn’t feel exploited.
Correct me if I am wrong but don't most Athletic departments show losses every year?Assuming the $200k number is correct, the time and energy expended on the sport far outweighs the benefit of what is essentially a sunk cost for the university. Okay, maybe housing has a cost to the school but that's peanuts against the value. The facilities are a capital investment in the huge returns. Throwing an extra kid or two into classes and giving them a little extra care isn't exactly forcing the school to spend big money nor is it even close to the value they bring.
Correct me if I am wrong but don't most Athletic departments show losses every year?
Sure. Most of that has to do with what they're spending on coaches and staff. In the neighborhood of 40%. That's why a lot of schools cut salaries when Covid hit. It was the biggest slice of the pie.
Nearly half of Pitt's football scholarship's are endowed by donors. There are something like 145 total endowed scholarships in all sports/activities and that number is growing. Like I said, you can more or less treat any costs as investment. Even if the school is spending another $2 million a year on football scholarships, what is that compared to what they're raking in from ACC revenue (which pays for just about everything else athletically)? But they're really not spending that much.
The last time I counted, Pitt had the equivalent of 261 combined scholarships to give out. As of 2016, it had 132 individual scholarships endowed, but not all of these are full scholarship endowments.
From the 2016 #s, Pitt had approximately a $32.9million in athletic scholarship endowments. It would need another $250 million in athletic endowment funds to cover the rest of the scholarship costs (back in 2016). Note this doesn't take into account cost of attendance payment either. So while the total endowed funds might be about half the slots, the money needed to fully endow those scholarships is far less than half.
It's hard to divorce one sport from the rest of the athletic department. The entire department needs to operate, there are shared costs, there are a minimum # of sports per NCAA regs, Title IX compliance issues, etc.I was just doing a quick count because I didn't want to waste the time on it. I'll go with your number's because you're usually much better informed. I've been speaking only in terms of football, as well.