College sports are uniquely American. I believe it is because we invite student athletes into our community so when they spurn us, it is extremely insulting. They are now no better then a pro looking for a paycheck.
Transfer portal is clearly ruining college sports
- Thread starter jivecat
- Start date
Except for the paycheck part
If you’re under the delusion that kids over a max of 4 years of eligibility are invited by the community -
Well
It’s interesting
I agree. These players should have the freedom to transfer from week to week.
My friends from other countries really don't get the obsession with college sports.
Correct. Mass transfers will turn off enough fans of the non-blue bloods that basketball revenue will decrease. Not football because football will never have anywhere near the transfer rate of basketball.
After watching Gonzaga Play as a team and have great success you see the deficiencies in the transfer portal, where everybody’s in individual. How do you loyally follow a team when there is no team?
Look at the amount of money (usually guaranteed for x number of years) coaches make them look at the guarantees the players have and ask yourself if you would rather be the coach or the player.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
You have no basis for that claim. Even with the Covid changes, the weekend games for the tournament are doing well on TV. That's pretty good considering there weren't any teams left in the east where most of the TV sets live.
You complain about how lame college football is and how it's just the same three or four schools every year and then turn around and watch the talent spreading out in basketball and claim it's bad for the fans. Pick a lane.
Completely disagree. players should be allowed to transfer anytime they want without penalty. There is no other college student that is penalized for transferring. Why should athletes be any different. Transferring because you are unhappy is no different than quitting your job and getting a new one. It is ridiculous that people think these athletes should be loyal at their own expense when literally no one else in society is held to the same standard.
What else is there to do in friggin Tuscaloosa Alabama? Actually the whole state of Alabama
I agree, college sports will never be the same. But it had to evolve like this, coaches with million dollar contracts leaving at the drop of a hat. Universities raking in big bucks....all on the backs of players who were compensated in a scholarship.
The NFL has had a good thing for a long time....a free developmental system.
The NFL has had a good thing for a long time....a free developmental system.
Totally agree, I fear college football and college basketball are in a death spiral—unless the transfer rules are ramped back and the pay for play woke mania is beat down. But I have no confidence that the Supreme Court will exhibit any common sense or historical perspective.
The exploited athletes? Spare me. Relieve me of $200,000 in tuition debt, get me in a school I might not otherwise get into, and even as a non elite player with no pro career potential, give me local name recognition that will open many avenues of employment, and I guarantee you I wouldn’t feel exploited.
The elite jocks will make their money soon enough.
The exploited athletes? Spare me. Relieve me of $200,000 in tuition debt, get me in a school I might not otherwise get into, and even as a non elite player with no pro career potential, give me local name recognition that will open many avenues of employment, and I guarantee you I wouldn’t feel exploited.
The elite jocks will make their money soon enough.
Perhaps start your anguish with the professional Coaches who have no restraint of trade despite being well compensated ?
You start with restricting their movement -
Then get back to me regarding the uncompensated amateurs .
likewise I will assume you have stayed in the first job you ever had - for loyalty to the institution
Players should be allowed to transfer once without having to sit out and be allowed to play for their new school once the new season begins.
You know what would be even better? If the Supreme Court decided any and all cases base on the actual law, rather than on completely irrelevant things like "historical perspective".
Orange Beach/Gulf Shores area is really nice.
They should be paid.
They should sit out when they transfer.
Coaches should also sit out when they switch schools.
I agree. If there is something illegal about the college athletic scholarship system....tear it down. Otherwise it has worked the past 100 years.
And that's the rub. There almost certainly ARE things about the college athletic scholarship system that are illegal. Which is why the NCAA is desperate to get legislative relief from Congress before the chickens come home to roost.
Yes
Because they are no different than any other employee
They go where they want for whatever reason they want .
I’m for equity in athletics
The ironic part is this case was requested by the ncaa to stop these states from changing the game .
So this total beat down the ncaa is getting you the scotus on this matter is entirely self inflicted
and yet there are fools here who keep siding with the ncaa’s flawed restraint of trade and likeness rights for individual athletes
College athletes are not like any other student. The school heavily invests in the athletes and expect some return on their investment
They don't pay their tuition.
They don't pay for room and board.
They don't pay for extra tutoring.
In addition, they get extra perks that regular students don't get:
They get the expertise from coaches that train them to possibly become multi-millionaires. If not, they get the training to become head coaches at different levels. This is invaluable.
They travel and get television exposure. This may allow them to get an inside track on getting a broadcasting career (see Jay Bilas).
They get more than the average student and well they should for what they generate the school. True, the student athletes don't get paid, but that's a different subject.
If you don't limit the times an athlete can transfer, then you have chaos. It creates another avenue for teams to cheat.
They don't pay their tuition.
They don't pay for room and board.
They don't pay for extra tutoring.
In addition, they get extra perks that regular students don't get:
They get the expertise from coaches that train them to possibly become multi-millionaires. If not, they get the training to become head coaches at different levels. This is invaluable.
They travel and get television exposure. This may allow them to get an inside track on getting a broadcasting career (see Jay Bilas).
They get more than the average student and well they should for what they generate the school. True, the student athletes don't get paid, but that's a different subject.
If you don't limit the times an athlete can transfer, then you have chaos. It creates another avenue for teams to cheat.
You realize that almost all of that is true about ANY student on campus on scholarship, right? They don't pay tuition, they don't pay room and board, in many cases they can get extra tutoring if they need it, they have access to leading academics in their field of study, and so on. And for the most part those people aren't generating lots of money for the school.
Does the school expect a return on that investment, and if not, what's the difference? The school is just as heavily, in fact in a lot of cases more heavily, invested in those students.
The avg student doesn't transfer with free 50,000 a year free college either , so...... The avg student transfers depending on their family finances not who has a nicer student section and locker room
Not sure I understand your point. My point is two fold:
1. Scholarship students (especially athletic) are not the same as the average student.
Now, let’s be honest, a lot of athletes on scholarship would not be acceptable by the school as a regular students. They invest in these players for one reason - To generate revenue. That’s it. In addition, they get more perks other than the scholarship whereas students with other scholarships do not.
2. Allowing players to transfer anytime they want, will open up another opportunity for schools to cheat.
The point is why do you think that you should be treating a person on an athletic scholarship, but only if they have an athletic scholarship in the small minority of sports, any different than you treat a person on a scholarship because they are great at math or great at music or great at any of the numerous other things that Pitt and other schools all over the country will give someone a scholarship for? And the odd thing is that you want to treat the person with the athletic scholarship that actually makes the school money WORSE than you treat everyone else. Quite frankly, it makes no sense.
And as for the cheating, the fact that institutions of higher learning put up with the cheating and refuse to fire and ostracize known cheaters is a black mark on them, but it certainly isn't anything I'm going to lose any sleep over.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Assuming the $200k number is correct, the time and energy expended on the sport far outweighs the benefit of what is essentially a sunk cost for the university. Okay, maybe housing has a cost to the school but that's peanuts against the value. The facilities are a capital investment in the huge returns. Throwing an extra kid or two into classes and giving them a little extra care isn't exactly forcing the school to spend big money nor is it even close to the value they bring.
Correct me if I am wrong but don't most Athletic departments show losses every year?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Sure. Most of that has to do with what they're spending on coaches and staff. In the neighborhood of 40%. That's why a lot of schools cut salaries when Covid hit. It was the biggest slice of the pie.
Nearly half of Pitt's football scholarship's are endowed by donors. There are something like 145 total endowed scholarships in all sports/activities and that number is growing. Like I said, you can more or less treat any costs as investment. Even if the school is spending another $2 million a year on football scholarships, what is that compared to what they're raking in from ACC revenue (which pays for just about everything else athletically)? But they're really not spending that much.
The last time I counted, Pitt had the equivalent of 261 combined scholarships to give out. As of 2016, it had 132 individual scholarships endowed, but not all of these are full scholarship endowments.
From the 2016 #s, Pitt had approximately a $32.9million in athletic scholarship endowments (or about $250K per endowment fund). It would need another $250 million in athletic endowment funds to cover the rest of the scholarship costs (back in 2016). At least $1million in endowed funds is need to cover the cost of scholarship/room-board at Pitt. Note this doesn't take into account cost of attendance payment either. So while the total endowed funds might be about half the slots, the money needed to fully endow those scholarships is far less than half.
I've always been an advocate of permanently taking cost off the athletic department's shoulders by endowing as much as possible...scholarships, coaches salaries, recruiting funds. It is the only way Pitt will be able to compete long term and not risk athletic programs getting gutted or cut to save money. If I was AD, I would take a small slice of ACC earnings and use it as matching funds to encourage more endowment gifts.
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pittdan77
Athletic Director
I was just doing a quick count because I didn't want to waste the time on it. I'll go with your number's because you're usually much better informed. I've been speaking only in terms of football, as well.
It's hard to divorce one sport from the rest of the athletic department. The entire department needs to operate, there are shared costs, there are a minimum # of sports per NCAA regs, Title IX compliance issues, etc.
