Urban maintaining his classy nature
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This really is not that unusual. Apparently has not hurt Meyer to date. If you follow the rationale that kids should commit to schools not coaches....seems like it was the kid that made the misstake of falling in love with an assistant [who at top programs are always prone to leave for another opportunity]. I'm not really troubled by this situation based upon the rules as they exist. Hail to Pitt!
This really is not that unusual. Apparently has not hurt Meyer to date. If you follow the rationale that kids should commit to schools not coaches....seems like it was the kid that made the misstake of falling in love with an assistant [who at top programs are always prone to leave for another opportunity]. I'm not really troubled by this situation based upon the rules as they exist. Hail to Pitt!
Spot on Law-as stated by Drew Sharp in the Detroit Free Press.....
I know it was a close call for Weber right to the last second, he came very close to going to Michigan. I know he feels misled. But his punishment is a full ride to the top football program in the country and a free education at a fine school-the school he gave a commitment to. Cry me a river.
You chose OSU because of a position coach? Whatever dude.
The real story here is that Urban really pissed off Weber's coach, Wilcher, who runs the top D1 talent producing HS Program in Michigan and one of the tops in the Midwest. OSU has been plucking star players from Cass Tech for years, I think that may he the end of it. Wilcher is a former Wolverine star player and had no love for OSU-but he was not a fan of RichRod or Hoke either.
This post was edited on 2/7 11:41 AM by thebadby2
Stop whining Weber....
I know it was a close call for Weber right to the last second, he came very close to going to Michigan. I know he feels misled. But his punishment is a full ride to the top football program in the country and a free education at a fine school-the school he gave a commitment to. Cry me a river.
You chose OSU because of a position coach? Whatever dude.
The real story here is that Urban really pissed off Weber's coach, Wilcher, who runs the top D1 talent producing HS Program in Michigan and one of the tops in the Midwest. OSU has been plucking star players from Cass Tech for years, I think that may he the end of it. Wilcher is a former Wolverine star player and had no love for OSU-but he was not a fan of RichRod or Hoke either.
This post was edited on 2/7 11:41 AM by thebadby2
Stop whining Weber....
Re: The kid should be allowed to be a Wolverine...like now...
The kid and his family had their eyes wide open. This stuff happens everywhere, all the time with position coaches. Didn't we have this exact same scenario a couple of years ago with one of our top guys? Boyd maybe? The difference was the player wasn't so ruffled, and stated that he committed to Pitt, not coach X. Wish I could remember who that was.
Weber's having buyers remorse because in his heart he wanted to go to Michigan all along, and this is his excuse. Don't shed a tear for this drama queen prima donna.
This post was edited on 2/7 11:44 AM by thebadby2
The kid and his family had their eyes wide open. This stuff happens everywhere, all the time with position coaches. Didn't we have this exact same scenario a couple of years ago with one of our top guys? Boyd maybe? The difference was the player wasn't so ruffled, and stated that he committed to Pitt, not coach X. Wish I could remember who that was.
Weber's having buyers remorse because in his heart he wanted to go to Michigan all along, and this is his excuse. Don't shed a tear for this drama queen prima donna.
This post was edited on 2/7 11:44 AM by thebadby2
Re: Reply
Just like all of the NCAA's rules, though, they are put in place to benefit the schools, mostly at the expense of the "student-athletes." How about a rule that allows a kid to change schools, without penalty, if his coach leaves for another job? Then it would be in OSU's interest to be honest with this kid and tell him that the guy is leaving, before he makes his decision.
These guys are hired, at least in part, because they are good recruiters. Their job is to sell themselves to the kids and their families. It is dishonest to do so while knowing that you will be leaving the day after the family signs a contract. The fact that is not unusual says a lot about the schools themselves.
Just like all of the NCAA's rules, though, they are put in place to benefit the schools, mostly at the expense of the "student-athletes." How about a rule that allows a kid to change schools, without penalty, if his coach leaves for another job? Then it would be in OSU's interest to be honest with this kid and tell him that the guy is leaving, before he makes his decision.
These guys are hired, at least in part, because they are good recruiters. Their job is to sell themselves to the kids and their families. It is dishonest to do so while knowing that you will be leaving the day after the family signs a contract. The fact that is not unusual says a lot about the schools themselves.
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Well the kid could choose not to play the game and be recruited to play football and get a full ride for free. He could have waited to sign his LOI. Seems the family has a beef with tOSU and/or Meyer....yet holds no ill will toward the actual coach that did the recruiting. HUH? Makes no sense. The assistant coach could have of course tipped his hand to the kid if he wanted or if the kid asked the question. Have not seen a word that suggests the assistant said he'd be around for the kid while he was at tOSU. Be sure, I have no soft spot for tOSU...but assistant coaches leave every day--I'd say the kid got exactly what he signed a contract to receive--a scholarship to tOSU. Hail to Pitt!
Well the kid could choose not to play the game and be recruited to play football and get a full ride for free. He could have waited to sign his LOI. Seems the family has a beef with tOSU and/or Meyer....yet holds no ill will toward the actual coach that did the recruiting. HUH? Makes no sense. The assistant coach could have of course tipped his hand to the kid if he wanted or if the kid asked the question. Have not seen a word that suggests the assistant said he'd be around for the kid while he was at tOSU. Be sure, I have no soft spot for tOSU...but assistant coaches leave every day--I'd say the kid got exactly what he signed a contract to receive--a scholarship to tOSU. Hail to Pitt!
What I found interesting was not really the article itself. This kind of stuff goes on all the time in college football. Frankly, it does suck, but it is within the letter of the NCAA law. That being said, Urban Meyer is a slime ball.
Back to my original comment. What's interesting is reading the comments on Yahoo. The vast majority are basically defending Meyer and telling the kid to "man up". Must be a lot of douche bag OSU fans reading Yahoo.
OSU purposefully withheld material information from a young man who was making one of the most important decisions in his life. They did this solely to benefit their program. Absolutely no concern for the kid. Seriously shameful.
The NCAA should allow kids to get out of their commitment within a specified period if the primary coach recruiting them leaves. Of course, that won't happen because this would require programs like OSU to be honest. Not gonna happen.
Cruzer
Back to my original comment. What's interesting is reading the comments on Yahoo. The vast majority are basically defending Meyer and telling the kid to "man up". Must be a lot of douche bag OSU fans reading Yahoo.
OSU purposefully withheld material information from a young man who was making one of the most important decisions in his life. They did this solely to benefit their program. Absolutely no concern for the kid. Seriously shameful.
The NCAA should allow kids to get out of their commitment within a specified period if the primary coach recruiting them leaves. Of course, that won't happen because this would require programs like OSU to be honest. Not gonna happen.
Cruzer
Reply
That would be a horrible idea. Should kids be released to transfer when the coach that recruits them is fired? I mean afterall, they followed the coach to the school...not vice a versa? I think you are reading the reactions you are--because it is logical--the kid received precisely the bargain for which he contracted--a scholarship to play football for tOSU. As for the institution, ever consider that they believe it is in the BEST INTEREST of the kid to go to school there and play football there? I bet they believe that. Such a non-story. Hail to Pitt!
That would be a horrible idea. Should kids be released to transfer when the coach that recruits them is fired? I mean afterall, they followed the coach to the school...not vice a versa? I think you are reading the reactions you are--because it is logical--the kid received precisely the bargain for which he contracted--a scholarship to play football for tOSU. As for the institution, ever consider that they believe it is in the BEST INTEREST of the kid to go to school there and play football there? I bet they believe that. Such a non-story. Hail to Pitt!
So are the kid's feelings just ruffled and he'll get over it and go be a great back at tOSU, or is he genuinely pissed off and really wants nothing to do with tOSU now. If the latter is the case, he can man up and ask Urban Meyer for a release from his scholarship. Of course Meyer could release him but block him from going to Michigan. I suppose he could decide not to enroll and then prep for a year and reopen his recruitment, but that seems like a long way around for a kid with his ability. It really comes down to how strong his sense of betrayal is and how committed he would be to the idea of getting away from tOSU, because if he really wants to, it can be done.
This post was edited on 2/7 1:31 PM by WCSordill
This post was edited on 2/7 1:31 PM by WCSordill
Re: Reply
Well, I respectfully disagree. Kids choose schools for lots of reasons including the relationship they build with a specific coach. That may not be the way that you or I would make a decision, but many kids do. I simply think that the NCAA creates a very lobsided relationship between the students and the institution.
BTW - I disagree, the kid did NOT receive what he clearly thought he was bargaining for which was a scholarship to OSU playing for a particular RB coach. If the relationship was purely with the institution then why wouldn't the coach disclose that he was leaving after LOI day? It was a purposeful deception on the part of OSU and I think it sucks. I laughed out loud at your statement that the institution thinks that it's in the kids best interest to attend their school. Urban Meyer and OSU couldn't give two turds about what's in this kids best interest. If they did, they would have told him what was about to happen and let him make an informed decision.
I don't like these one-sided restrictions. But that's just my opinion.
Cruzer
Well, I respectfully disagree. Kids choose schools for lots of reasons including the relationship they build with a specific coach. That may not be the way that you or I would make a decision, but many kids do. I simply think that the NCAA creates a very lobsided relationship between the students and the institution.
BTW - I disagree, the kid did NOT receive what he clearly thought he was bargaining for which was a scholarship to OSU playing for a particular RB coach. If the relationship was purely with the institution then why wouldn't the coach disclose that he was leaving after LOI day? It was a purposeful deception on the part of OSU and I think it sucks. I laughed out loud at your statement that the institution thinks that it's in the kids best interest to attend their school. Urban Meyer and OSU couldn't give two turds about what's in this kids best interest. If they did, they would have told him what was about to happen and let him make an informed decision.
I don't like these one-sided restrictions. But that's just my opinion.
Cruzer
Cruzer--I am sure you understand that legally and morally right are not one and the same. The only partly coinside. This is one of those legally right but morally wrong situations.
Reply
You are confusing what I said. I KNOW plenty of kids sign with schools for all the wrong reasons. But how do you protect stupid people from themselves? Read an LOI sometime...it says nothing about who the coach is or who recruited the athlete...it is about a relationship between the student and school. So if a kid signs and the school provides the educational opportunity...they are getting precisely what they contracted for. If some kid or parents think they are signing with a particular coach...then they are just plain stupid.
I'd like to think that Pitt thinks it is the right institution for kids for both athletics and academics. Sure, schools want to win...but they also have to want to educate and help these kids transform to young men. I see no reason to make fun of tOSU...as other than being successful, they are not really much different than most schools, including Pitt. This is nothing compared to pushing a kid out of your school because he/she did not perform as you hoped or because you changed the system and they no longer have the skills to fit into the program--that is far worse--and Pitt has done this plenty of times.
Ever read an employment contract? The terms are nearly always stacked in favor of the employer. Should professional athletes be able to change teams any time their coaches change? Sports is a business, even at the college level. Read your contract and don't expect anything that is not promised in the contract. Hail to Pitt!
You are confusing what I said. I KNOW plenty of kids sign with schools for all the wrong reasons. But how do you protect stupid people from themselves? Read an LOI sometime...it says nothing about who the coach is or who recruited the athlete...it is about a relationship between the student and school. So if a kid signs and the school provides the educational opportunity...they are getting precisely what they contracted for. If some kid or parents think they are signing with a particular coach...then they are just plain stupid.
I'd like to think that Pitt thinks it is the right institution for kids for both athletics and academics. Sure, schools want to win...but they also have to want to educate and help these kids transform to young men. I see no reason to make fun of tOSU...as other than being successful, they are not really much different than most schools, including Pitt. This is nothing compared to pushing a kid out of your school because he/she did not perform as you hoped or because you changed the system and they no longer have the skills to fit into the program--that is far worse--and Pitt has done this plenty of times.
Ever read an employment contract? The terms are nearly always stacked in favor of the employer. Should professional athletes be able to change teams any time their coaches change? Sports is a business, even at the college level. Read your contract and don't expect anything that is not promised in the contract. Hail to Pitt!
As self appointed moral compass of the Lair you should know better than to single out Urban Meyer for stuff like this. It happens all the time, everywhere. This is why a kid should commit to a school and not a coach, especially an assistant coach. Of course a 17 year kid doesn't learn by someone telling him. He learns from making his own mistakes.
Legally they did nothing wrong. Morally it sucked.
But why single out tOSU and Meyer for something that happens and has been happening everywhere all the time.
If I'm not mistaken didn't Pitt have a WR coach leave after LOI day just last year?
But why single out tOSU and Meyer for something that happens and has been happening everywhere all the time.
If I'm not mistaken didn't Pitt have a WR coach leave after LOI day just last year?
That's precisely what I'm saying. Legally, OSU did absolutely nothing wrong. They operated within the boundaries of NCAA guidelines. That does not make it ethical.
My point is, that for an organization like the NCAA that likes to sit on it's high horse of amateur athletics, the whole practice smells to high heaven. BTW - I'd be saying the same thing if it were Pitt.
My larger point is that most of the OSU posters don't seem to have a problem with the ethics of this situation. I do.
Cruzer
My point is, that for an organization like the NCAA that likes to sit on it's high horse of amateur athletics, the whole practice smells to high heaven. BTW - I'd be saying the same thing if it were Pitt.
My larger point is that most of the OSU posters don't seem to have a problem with the ethics of this situation. I do.
Cruzer
Reply
Well there is a ton about sports, and in particular college athletics that is not "ethical." I think many University officials and coaches basically have a test--which is if it is permitted under the rules, can they look in the mirror and say was that in the best interest of my team and/or the institution? If the answer is/was yes...then it is/was the right thing to do. I can live with that kind of ethics. Pitt coaches have run off more than their fair share of kids that signed with Pitt for assorted reasons [see the beloved Jamie Dixon as a prime example]--and we have obviously had coaches leave in mid-stream. I just see no reason to get too excited about this "4*" recruit at tOSU. If he is so morally outraged, he has options to not play for tOSU. Hail to Pitt!
Well there is a ton about sports, and in particular college athletics that is not "ethical." I think many University officials and coaches basically have a test--which is if it is permitted under the rules, can they look in the mirror and say was that in the best interest of my team and/or the institution? If the answer is/was yes...then it is/was the right thing to do. I can live with that kind of ethics. Pitt coaches have run off more than their fair share of kids that signed with Pitt for assorted reasons [see the beloved Jamie Dixon as a prime example]--and we have obviously had coaches leave in mid-stream. I just see no reason to get too excited about this "4*" recruit at tOSU. If he is so morally outraged, he has options to not play for tOSU. Hail to Pitt!
Re: Reply
Sorry, but I disagree. I think an academic institution also has an obligation to be honest and forthright. Withholding material information does meet my standard of ethical behavior. I guess it meets yours. Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over this issue.
Cruzer
Sorry, but I disagree. I think an academic institution also has an obligation to be honest and forthright. Withholding material information does meet my standard of ethical behavior. I guess it meets yours. Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over this issue.
Cruzer
Re: Spot on Law-as stated by Drew Sharp in the Detroit Free Press.....
"at a fine school"-Ha ! Tell me another one. The Free Press, by the way, is often an apologist for MSU, similar to the Post-Gazette and PSU.
This post was edited on 2/7 4:38 PM by rojo36
"at a fine school"-Ha ! Tell me another one. The Free Press, by the way, is often an apologist for MSU, similar to the Post-Gazette and PSU.
This post was edited on 2/7 4:38 PM by rojo36
Reply
What's worse...not telling a kid that an assistant coach is moving up to the big leagues or pushing a kid out of the program because you think you can do better with another kid? Not even close in my book. Spare me the moral outrage...it happens all the time and is just part of sports--college and professional. Sign a contract with a school or team...and be prepared to play for whomever happens to be the coach. Hail to Pitt!
What's worse...not telling a kid that an assistant coach is moving up to the big leagues or pushing a kid out of the program because you think you can do better with another kid? Not even close in my book. Spare me the moral outrage...it happens all the time and is just part of sports--college and professional. Sign a contract with a school or team...and be prepared to play for whomever happens to be the coach. Hail to Pitt!
Re: Spot on Law-as stated by Drew Sharp in the Detroit Free Press.....
I'm a lifelong Michigan resident rojo, and I don't need you to educate me on the propensities of our two major papers. the local media-including the freep-spends all its time blowing Michigan, and it has always been that way. Accusing the Freep of being a "MSU apologist" is nauseating. Fans like you--I.e. The vas majority of Michigan fans- are why I hate UM with a passion. This past 8 years of come uppance has been a long time coming. Hopefully there are at least a couple of more years of humiliation coming your way before Harbaugh rights the ship, which, unfortunately, he will do. Even when that happens, Urban will still own you, and MSU won't be your doormat anymore.
By the way, MSU hasn't needed any media apologists. They haven't had much to apologize or make excuses for in quite some time.
And OSU is a good school. Not as good as Michigan, but then again neither is Harvard or Stanford according to your average UM alum.
I'm a lifelong Michigan resident rojo, and I don't need you to educate me on the propensities of our two major papers. the local media-including the freep-spends all its time blowing Michigan, and it has always been that way. Accusing the Freep of being a "MSU apologist" is nauseating. Fans like you--I.e. The vas majority of Michigan fans- are why I hate UM with a passion. This past 8 years of come uppance has been a long time coming. Hopefully there are at least a couple of more years of humiliation coming your way before Harbaugh rights the ship, which, unfortunately, he will do. Even when that happens, Urban will still own you, and MSU won't be your doormat anymore.
By the way, MSU hasn't needed any media apologists. They haven't had much to apologize or make excuses for in quite some time.
And OSU is a good school. Not as good as Michigan, but then again neither is Harvard or Stanford according to your average UM alum.
Re: Reply
Both actions suck and colleges should be ashamed that this is accepted behavior. Lie to kids, withhold information, take scholarships away because a kid doesn't meet your expectations. Terrible.
I guess in a world where our President can lie under oath, why should we expect our academic institutions to do any better?
Call me old school I guess.
Cruze
Both actions suck and colleges should be ashamed that this is accepted behavior. Lie to kids, withhold information, take scholarships away because a kid doesn't meet your expectations. Terrible.
I guess in a world where our President can lie under oath, why should we expect our academic institutions to do any better?
Call me old school I guess.
Cruze
It's not like Urban Meyer is known as St. Urban. He's a slimeball where winning comes first. Just look at how he handled Aaron Hernandez at Florida. If he cared about the players, he would've tried to help him grow up and mature, instead of just covering up his crimes and allowing him to keep playing. Urban cares about Urban. He is a narcissist. I don't see how parents can't see through his charade. Maybe he has a bag man too who makes parents care less about ethics and morals.
Re: Reply
The point, though, is that they are the ones who are writing the rules. So of course they will be able to say that it was permitted by the rules - they have compliance officers and lawyers who are making sure that they know those rules. And even with all of that, sometimes they don't follow their own rules. Sometimes it is a matter of interpretation.
By the way, this "follow the rules" argument is what Paterno's defenders have been using to absolve him - he followed the law, reported to his superiors, etc.
I am not excited about this kid - it is the fact that, as has been alluded to by yourself and others, this kind of situation is the norm. Ethics should have more clout at institutions of higher learning.
The point, though, is that they are the ones who are writing the rules. So of course they will be able to say that it was permitted by the rules - they have compliance officers and lawyers who are making sure that they know those rules. And even with all of that, sometimes they don't follow their own rules. Sometimes it is a matter of interpretation.
By the way, this "follow the rules" argument is what Paterno's defenders have been using to absolve him - he followed the law, reported to his superiors, etc.
I am not excited about this kid - it is the fact that, as has been alluded to by yourself and others, this kind of situation is the norm. Ethics should have more clout at institutions of higher learning.
Reply
Precisely what rules would you have them follow? I think this issue is practically made up. Who really cares? If you are so outraged by this...I can only imagine your head exploding when Jamie Dixon [or name a P5 football or basketball coach] pushes another kid out of the program who actually has a scholarship from Pitt. Happens all the time...at Pitt and other places. Changing a coach on a kid is NOTHING compared to throwing him to the curb with no education or scholarship. We are a society based upon the rule of law...if you want to change it...have at it. But it seems pretty petty to get all excited by people that are following the rules. As for ethics or morals, just which compass or set should be followed? I presume yours is the correct answer? Hail to Pitt!
Precisely what rules would you have them follow? I think this issue is practically made up. Who really cares? If you are so outraged by this...I can only imagine your head exploding when Jamie Dixon [or name a P5 football or basketball coach] pushes another kid out of the program who actually has a scholarship from Pitt. Happens all the time...at Pitt and other places. Changing a coach on a kid is NOTHING compared to throwing him to the curb with no education or scholarship. We are a society based upon the rule of law...if you want to change it...have at it. But it seems pretty petty to get all excited by people that are following the rules. As for ethics or morals, just which compass or set should be followed? I presume yours is the correct answer? Hail to Pitt!
Reply
Curious what you mean by your comment? If your comment goes to the original point about signing a kid to a contract to attend a university....and comparing it to the private sector where someone is recruited to a company that will be leaving...I think the situation is practically identical. If you sign an employment agreement in the private sector...the person that recruited you to the company is not relevant to the terms of your employment. So perhaps a good life lesson?
If you are going for some other point...I'd be interested in learning what it is? Hail to Pitt!
Curious what you mean by your comment? If your comment goes to the original point about signing a kid to a contract to attend a university....and comparing it to the private sector where someone is recruited to a company that will be leaving...I think the situation is practically identical. If you sign an employment agreement in the private sector...the person that recruited you to the company is not relevant to the terms of your employment. So perhaps a good life lesson?
If you are going for some other point...I'd be interested in learning what it is? Hail to Pitt!
It would be nice to hear someone speaking of Pitt's coach that way soneday.
It would mean we're winning big. That's when the losers start calling your coach a scumbag, regardless of any actual knowledge.
Curios to hear your list of moral pillars in coaching with a national championship to their credit the past 20 years or more.
It would mean we're winning big. That's when the losers start calling your coach a scumbag, regardless of any actual knowledge.
Curios to hear your list of moral pillars in coaching with a national championship to their credit the past 20 years or more.
Dealing with Disappointment 101
Mr. Weber, you've just been enrolled.
I've never felt sorry for players when their coaches leave. College partially serves as an opportunity to learn about life and I think Weber just got served with his first dish of reality.
If he goes on to have any success in life he'll probably have bigger disappointments than this so maybe now he'll just be ahead of the curve.
C'est la Vie[/I]
Mr. Weber, you've just been enrolled.
I've never felt sorry for players when their coaches leave. College partially serves as an opportunity to learn about life and I think Weber just got served with his first dish of reality.
If he goes on to have any success in life he'll probably have bigger disappointments than this so maybe now he'll just be ahead of the curve.
C'est la Vie[/I]
I live in Columbus. I am not in any fashion a Buckeye fan. Having said that, we would give anything to have Urban Meyer at Pitt. Let's keep the potshots to a minimum about a man and a team that plays head and shoulders above Pitt.
Pitt's entire program is an after thought right now trapped in a perpetual rebuilding cycle. Again, I love Pitt and don't care for OSU but when you see the power of what they're doing vs what we do... it's hardly the same sport man. They just won the NC with the third string QB and beat Bama and the Heisman Trophy winner to do it. We lost to Akron this year (the fifth best team in Ohio...) then got raw dogged for the biggest 4th quarter comeback in BOWL HISTORY on national television.
Dude, I'll take a little of that Urban sleaze people like to talk about. Hell, I'll take two orders. He's a winner that's not going to accept a loss to make someone else feel good. Pitt better do something fast because outside of Pittsburgh, no ones talking about us and if they are, it's not too good.
Pitt's entire program is an after thought right now trapped in a perpetual rebuilding cycle. Again, I love Pitt and don't care for OSU but when you see the power of what they're doing vs what we do... it's hardly the same sport man. They just won the NC with the third string QB and beat Bama and the Heisman Trophy winner to do it. We lost to Akron this year (the fifth best team in Ohio...) then got raw dogged for the biggest 4th quarter comeback in BOWL HISTORY on national television.
Dude, I'll take a little of that Urban sleaze people like to talk about. Hell, I'll take two orders. He's a winner that's not going to accept a loss to make someone else feel good. Pitt better do something fast because outside of Pittsburgh, no ones talking about us and if they are, it's not too good.
Today if a recruit actually thinks he is going to have the same position coach for his entire career and especially highly successful coaches he is an idiot. These coaches are all looking for a promotion and more money and they should be. Most of these kids understand that for better or worse this is now business and these decisions are business decisions.
Re: Reply
Did the assistant lie and say I'll be at O$U...
I think the kid wanted to go to Michigan...
Robert Foster.... Anyone..
Did the assistant lie and say I'll be at O$U...
I think the kid wanted to go to Michigan...
Robert Foster.... Anyone..
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