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Use only this thread to pitch your insane expansion ideas

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Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
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Lets unclog this board by having one thread for you guys to post the most ridiculous, no chance of ever happening expansion ideas. I cant believe some of the stuff I am reading. The lack of basic college sports knowledge is astounding.

Let me start by trying to help out:

- the SEC and/or Big Ten will never agree to a merger with the ACC. Those are THE 2 conferences. Neither will EVER lose a team other than because of some crazy unforeseen event such as Texas A&M hating Texas and being blindsided....and even then it wasnt enough to even get them to explore the Big Ten as I thought they may.

- the ACC is NOT going to add more teams other than Notre Dame unless they lose teams first. There are no other teams that arent in the Big Ten, SEC, or Pac 12 which would be net positives for the ACC. No one would add enough dollars to make it worth the addition. For example, lets say ACC teams get $30 million/year from ESPN. The extra 7 Oklahoma State or 7 Cincinnati home games do not make ESPN $30 million per year which is what would be needed just to break even on the expansion.

- a scheduling agreement is really, nothing. I am seeing too many ACC/Pac 12 "alliances." Ok, maybe eventually these leagues agree to play 1 game/year but that adds very little to no value. And no, the 2 leagues aren't going to form a 26 team coast to coast superconference. And even if it did, the Pac 12 is NOT a good league for TV ratings as you have seen. It has 2 big properties, UCLA and USC. The NorCal schools don't have big fanbases, the Oregons, Washingtons, Arizonas, Utah, and Colorado just dont turn on enough TV sets. They are not any different than your Virginias, North Carolinas, Pitt, etc.

The ACC is stuck. It simply has to hope it can stay together until 2036 so that it can go to the open market with a TV contract and perhaps the landscape will be much different then. There is a chance this could happen. But in essence, the ACC and Big 12 only exist as long as the Big Ten and SEC allow. This is big money non-profit (yea I know makes no sense) college sports. At the end of the day, money is the ONLY thing that matters. I am even seeing Clemson fans giddy about thoughts of joining the SEC so their program can make the same dollars. Like, dude, you literally just won TWO National Championships. You are in the CFP every year. How many more games/titles do you think you'll win in the SEC? As I have said, you CANT pay salaries to the player so all this ancillary stuff the money is being wasted on doesn't have a huge affect on recruiting. Clemson isnt going to lose that many recruits because Auburn has a recording studio or because another team builds a 5-star luxury resort as "dorms."
 
acc should do nothing. i know, boring but just stay pat. actually really liked the idea of wvu / Ok state but thats more for my viewing entertainment than it is to help the conference situation.

so that's my crazy idea, dont overreact and just stay where we are..
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
acc should do nothing. i know, boring but just stay pat. actually really liked the idea of wvu / Ok state but thats more for my viewing entertainment than it is to help the conference situation.

so that's my crazy idea, dont overreact and just stay where we are..
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there isn't much the ACC can do except try and get Notre Dame. Aside from PSU, OSU and Michigan, no other program east of the rockies is going to move any needle that will have broadcast entities throwing money at you.

The ACC can expand, but what, further dilute the pool on an already bad TV deal? The only reason to expand is to kill the Big 12 and take them out of the mix, TV wise that opens up other opportunities with someone like Fox.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Unfortunately, there isn't much the ACC can do except try and get Notre Dame. Aside from PSU, OSU and Michigan, no other program east of the rockies is going to move any needle that will have broadcast entities throwing money at you.

The ACC can expand, but what, further dilute the pool on an already bad TV deal? The only reason to expand is to kill the Big 12 and take them out of the mix, TV wise that opens up other opportunities with someone like Fox.
Click to expand...
im trying to think if going to 16 helps in any way, with decent but not great programs. I mean if you go to 16, go to a 9 game conference schedule, maybe bring in new markets (I know wvu is not a great market), does that add anything to our bargaining for more money? including with comcast and the accn?

More live game content on both hoops and football side? I mean that's worth something, right? maybe?
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
acc should do nothing. i know, boring but just stay pat. actually really liked the idea of wvu / Ok state but thats more for my viewing entertainment than it is to help the conference situation.

so that's my crazy idea, dont overreact and just stay where we are..
Click to expand...
Good post. Exactly right. The ACC cannot add anyone that makes them more money. I, too, have the feeling that it would be kinda cool to add, say WVU and OKSt but that is the fan in me saying that. The college sports expansion genius in me says its an extremely stupid idea.
 
I don’t have time to fully write this out but at a high level, I really like the idea of these regional pods/grouplets of 4 teams. If there is going to be an upper echelon and lower echelon within FBS, why not have the upper echelon separate entirely from conference affiliation writ large and move towards pods for one large entity. Each of the pods will obviously play the teams within their pods on an annual basis and then rotate playing other pods throughout the course of time. You can still get to 12 team playoff if that what folks want and remove the week of play for conference championships.

FBS Super Division (or whatever name) 64 teams.
FBS Super Subdivisions: 16 made up of four teams each.
Northeast
East
Mid Atlantic
Mid Southeast
Deep Southeast
Northern Midwest
Central Midwest
Southern Midwest
Northern Plains
Central Plains
Southern Plains
Northern Mountain
Southern Mountain
Northern Pacific/northwest
Central Pacific
Southern Pacific
 
SMF doesn't want to hear about scheduling agreements because that is the most logical solution to the issue.

Especially for football, there is no point in making the conference any bigger than it is because you don't even play that many games in a season. If you do it wrong, you might actually make your product worse.

Rather than pushing the conference schedule to 10 or 11 games, the Big Ten or ACC can just force all of their members to schedule two games against the Pac-12. You could even see them do some sort of quasi-boycott where they try to avoid giving the SEC any games.

For other sports like basketball, instead of paying dregs to come and play your home games, you keep all that money/content going by requiring each team play maybe 4 games against the Pac-12. You could even set it up where you play a Thursday/Saturday road trip with a travel partner.

It is a means of producing more content for ESPN without adding more mouths to feed, at the expense of the American, Mountain West, etc.
 
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alphabetical order. If you play college football, then youre on the list.
 
levance2 said:
SMF doesn't want to hear about scheduling agreements because that is the most logical solution to the issue.

Especially for football, there is no point in making the conference any bigger than it is because you don't even play that many games in a season. If you do it wrong, you might actually make your product worse.

Rather than pushing the conference schedule to 10 or 11 games, the Big Ten or ACC can just force all of their members to schedule two games against the Pac-12. You could even see them do some sort of quasi-boycott where they try to avoid giving the SEC any games.

For other sports like basketball, instead of paying dregs to come and play your home games, you keep all that money/content going by requiring each team play maybe 4 games against the Pac-12. You could even set it up where you play a Thursday/Saturday road trip with a travel partner.

It is a means of producing more content for ESPN without adding more mouths to feed, at the expense of the American, Mountain West, etc.
Click to expand...
two OOC games against another P5 conference would be great.. problem with that is i believe the pac 12 plays a 9 game conference schedule as does the big 10.. we'd have to switch that up first..

honestly, to see the reaction of posters on here playing not 9 but 11 P5 opponents annually would be worth the subscription alone.. 1/2 this board is crying about playing one real team OOC, couldnt imagine having to play 2..
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
two OOC games against another P5 conference would be great.. problem with that is i believe the pac 12 plays a 9 game conference schedule as does the big 10.. we'd have to switch that up first..

honestly, to see the reaction of posters on here playing not 9 but 11 P5 opponents annually would be worth the subscription alone.. 1/2 this board is crying about playing one real team OOC, couldnt imagine having to play 2..
Click to expand...
The B1G has already been discussing a scheduling arrangement with the PAC12. I think it's for a game a year.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
two OOC games against another P5 conference would be great.. problem with that is i believe the pac 12 plays a 9 game conference schedule as does the big 10.. we'd have to switch that up first..

honestly, to see the reaction of posters on here playing not 9 but 11 P5 opponents annually would be worth the subscription alone.. 1/2 this board is crying about playing one real team OOC, couldnt imagine having to play 2..
Click to expand...
It was already proposed at one point and canceled:
fbschedules.com

Big Ten, Pac-12 announce long-term scheduling agreement

The Big Ten and the Pac-12 announced on Wednesday a long-term scheduling agreement in football and all other sports.
fbschedules.com

The issue for the ACC is it is far more likely that the Big Ten and Pac-12 reach an agreement, and share media rights with Fox and ESPN. The ACC could be left out of such an arrangement.
 
levance2 said:
It was already proposed at one point and canceled:
fbschedules.com

Big Ten, Pac-12 announce long-term scheduling agreement

The Big Ten and the Pac-12 announced on Wednesday a long-term scheduling agreement in football and all other sports.
fbschedules.com

The issue for the ACC is it is far more likely that the Big Ten and Pac-12 reach an agreement, and share media rights with Fox and ESPN. The ACC could be left out of such an arrangement.
Click to expand...
So we are kind of on our own little island here apparently.
 
OU and UT were orphans. They were in a league that had nothing. The ACC is not the old Big East. Imho it is a well run conference where the schools are more similar than different. I don’t think the ACC needs to expand other than ND. If FSU and Miami return as top 10 teams and Clemson remains a top ten team then that is 30% of the top ten. That is a good football conference with UNC, Pitt, UVa, and fill in the blank rounding out the top 25. More cords are being cut then added. The game is changing.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
im trying to think if going to 16 helps in any way, with decent but not great programs. I mean if you go to 16, go to a 9 game conference schedule, maybe bring in new markets (I know wvu is not a great market), does that add anything to our bargaining for more money? including with comcast and the accn?

More live game content on both hoops and football side? I mean that's worth something, right? maybe?
Click to expand...
Yep. It is why I say "engaged" fan base. WVU has one. Rutgers doesn't. Pitt doesn't. And by that, I mean sure there are diehards, but I am talking within the market the number of people who would otherwise be casual fans, care. Pittsburgh area might be much bigger than WVU as a whole, but how many of them are really Pitt fans? WVU has no less of a market or alumni base than Va Tech. Their fans, as we have seen, travel well, make spectacle's of themselves, and you have natural rivals, it would be much more quality of programming than say UCF or Memphis into the ACC.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Yep. It is why I say "engaged" fan base. WVU has one. Rutgers doesn't. Pitt doesn't. And by that, I mean sure there are diehards, but I am talking within the market the number of people who would otherwise be casual fans, care.
Click to expand...
The old objective was "let's capture media markets so we can draw cable subscription fees from old grandmas who don't even watch sports" but that era is ending. The next wave will be true direct-to-consumer streaming subscriptions, and in that case, you actually care about engaged fans who will be willing to pay $10/month to watch the games.

Either that or you'll see the existing streaming services (Amazon, YouTube, etc.) take the places of ESPN vs Fox vs NBC and continue to overpay just to secure eyeballs.
 
Sec poaches clemson and Florida state

Big ten poaches Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia tech

Notre Dame to big ten

ACC try’s to stop the hemorrhaging by inviting wvu, navy, cincy, UCF, Tcu and Houston.

Pitt stuck playing Mac schools and Gannon
 
Ghost of Pitt Stadium said:
Sec poaches clemson and Florida state

Big ten poaches Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia tech

Notre Dame to big ten

ACC try’s to stop the hemorrhaging by inviting wvu, navy, cincy, UCF, Tcu and Houston.

Pitt stuck playing Mac schools and Gannon
Click to expand...
you must be the life of the party when you are with friends.. anything else in your doomsday scenario? no asteroids headed for earth anytime soon? Aliens coming to enslave us all?
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
you must be the life of the party when you are with friends.. anything else in your doomsday scenario? no asteroids headed for earth anytime soon? Aliens coming to enslave us all?
Click to expand...
Aliens are already here

The ACC will be reduced to ruble when both the sec and big ten launch mortar strikes this week

And as usual, pitt has no plan and is not prepared.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Good post. Exactly right. The ACC cannot add anyone that makes them more money. I, too, have the feeling that it would be kinda cool to add, say WVU and OKSt but that is the fan in me saying that. The college sports expansion genius in me says its an extremely stupid idea.
Click to expand...
Except again.....it is now programming more than market, right? Especially now with streaming. So WVU/Pitt, WVU/VT, hell WVU/Syracuse, Lville, UNC, UVA, are all potentially great programming games that exceeds any "intrigue" that Rutgers or Maryland brought to matchups in the B1G.
 
TFBaum said:
OU and UT were orphans. They were in a league that had nothing. The ACC is not the old Big East. Imho it is a well run conference where the schools are more similar than different. I don’t think the ACC needs to expand other than ND. If FSU and Miami return as top 10 teams and Clemson remains a top ten team then that is 30% of the top ten. That is a good football conference with UNC, Pitt, UVa, and fill in the blank rounding out the top 25. More cords are being cut then added. The game is changing.
Click to expand...
With the last TV contract being so much behind the others, not sure how "well run" it is.
 
The SEC is the only P5 conference that will expand to 16 teams, everyone freaking out about 20 or 30 team super conferences are way way off. Notre Dame is the only prize left, with the expanded playoff they don't need to be in a conference and even if everyone went to 10 conference games they'd still be able to fill their schedule. If Notre Dame does decide to join a conference it will be either the ACC or B1G, they'll be the only team added, both conference would be happy to stand pat at 15 teams.
 
happjack said:
The SEC is the only P5 conference that will expand to 16 teams, everyone freaking out about 20 or 30 team super conferences are way way off. Notre Dame is the only prize left, with the expanded playoff they don't need to be in a conference and even if everyone went to 10 conference games they'd still be able to fill their schedule. If Notre Dame does decide to join a conference it will be either the ACC or B1G, they'll be the only team added, both conference would be happy to stand pat at 15 teams.
Click to expand...
a few articles basically said the same. pac 12 and big 10 really dont see the need to expand. i know stuff happens behind the scenes and these tweets and articles arent a true indication of the future but i do believe there is a more than good chance that outside of the SEC, no one else will expand.
 
levance2 said:
SMF doesn't want to hear about scheduling agreements because that is the most logical solution to the issue.

Especially for football, there is no point in making the conference any bigger than it is because you don't even play that many games in a season. If you do it wrong, you might actually make your product worse.

Rather than pushing the conference schedule to 10 or 11 games, the Big Ten or ACC can just force all of their members to schedule two games against the Pac-12. You could even see them do some sort of quasi-boycott where they try to avoid giving the SEC any games.

For other sports like basketball, instead of paying dregs to come and play your home games, you keep all that money/content going by requiring each team play maybe 4 games against the Pac-12. You could even set it up where you play a Thursday/Saturday road trip with a travel partner.

It is a means of producing more content for ESPN without adding more mouths to feed, at the expense of the American, Mountain West, etc.
Click to expand...
Scheduling agreements are great but that isnt "expansion." Nor does it generate much, if any extra revenue. Im just saying I hate to see these people think they solved the ACC's problem by thinking if they played 1 game per year vs Washington State, we would be right there with the SEC and Big Ten.
 
JSSTartan said:
I don’t have time to fully write this out but at a high level, I really like the idea of these regional pods/grouplets of 4 teams. If there is going to be an upper echelon and lower echelon within FBS, why not have the upper echelon separate entirely from conference affiliation writ large and move towards pods for one large entity. Each of the pods will obviously play the teams within their pods on an annual basis and then rotate playing other pods throughout the course of time. You can still get to 12 team playoff if that what folks want and remove the week of play for conference championships.

FBS Super Division (or whatever name) 64 teams.
FBS Super Subdivisions: 16 made up of four teams each.
Northeast
East
Mid Atlantic
Mid Southeast
Deep Southeast
Northern Midwest
Central Midwest
Southern Midwest
Northern Plains
Central Plains
Southern Plains
Northern Mountain
Southern Mountain
Northern Pacific/northwest
Central Pacific
Southern Pacific
Click to expand...
See, if it were me, and I werent a Pitt fan, I would try to get the 40 best programs (by history/tradition/market/etc) regardless of league and secede from the NCAA for football only. Stay in the NCAA for the other sports.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Scheduling agreements are great but that isnt "expansion." Nor does it generate much, if any extra revenue. Im just saying I hate to see these people think they solved the ACC's problem by thinking if they played 1 game per year vs Washington State, we would be right there with the SEC and Big Ten.
Click to expand...
we will never be "Right there" with SEC or big 10. even if ND joined acc, we'd still be well in the big 10 rearview mirror. it just wont happen ever.. catching up to the big 12 (pre texas/UO) or the pac 12 should be the goal. not being dead last in the P5 with revenue year in and year out.. we'd have clemson in the playoffs and would still be far behind the big 12 and pac 12 in payouts..
 
happjack said:
The SEC is the only P5 conference that will expand to 16 teams, everyone freaking out about 20 or 30 team super conferences are way way off. Notre Dame is the only prize left, with the expanded playoff they don't need to be in a conference and even if everyone went to 10 conference games they'd still be able to fill their schedule. If Notre Dame does decide to join a conference it will be either the ACC or B1G, they'll be the only team added, both conference would be happy to stand pat at 15 teams.
Click to expand...
Yes. Maybe.

Look, Texas and Oklahoma were the two big fishes out there, with the most tenuous situation. The Big 12 was always kind of picked apart and a bit of a hodgepodge, lifted up by these two programs. So they were a natural. The only other 4, maybe 5, programs left who could really move needles are ND, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and maybe Clemson. But let's remember this about Clemson. They have always been okay, but they aren't a huge fanbase, not a huge school, they have tradition but not blue blood tradition. Just like Florida State, they are a bit of a recency run, which can go away as fast as it came on and they could go back to "Clemsoning" again.

The 3 B1G schools aren't going anywhere, neither is Notre Dame. The only move the SEC would have is to then try and kill the ACC by taking Clemson and FSU, but those markets and areas, they already have, so really what does that bring aside from weakening the ACC? What is there to gain from that?
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
we will never be "Right there" with SEC or big 10. even if ND joined acc, we'd still be well in the big 10 rearview mirror. it just wont happen ever.. catching up to the big 12 (pre texas/UO) or the pac 12 should be the goal. not being dead last in the P5 with revenue year in and year out.. we'd have clemson in the playoffs and would still be far behind the big 12 and pac 12 in payouts..
Click to expand...
Correct. And scheduling Washington State and Oregon State isnt the answer.

We wait. Till 2036. That's the plan.
 
Also a "scheduling agreement" could only really work if the same media company holds the rights to two conferences, along with the media company being able to come up with the match-up's at the end of the previous season.
 
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