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Vader's Post Game

Vader_Storm

Sophomore
Dec 16, 2018
2,278
4,349
113
Game Ball

Femi Odukale- 20 points on 8-14 shooting, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals. Offensively, he was great with very little help. Defensively, he was ok at best today. John Hugley had the best stats, but Femi's post game answers in the press conference give him the game ball. The maturity he displays as a true sophomore has so much Brandin Knight in him. No excuses why we lost, nothing about his performance overall except saying it wasn't good enough and pointing to the reasons why we lost as a team. Its almost amazing the difference between him and Xavier Johnson. For anyone that watched Indiana today, X got benched 5 minutes into the game after his 3rd turnover. X finally returned later on in the half about 12 minutes later. Femi is going to be a really, really good player and team leader as he continues to develop. He listens.

Game Ball Assist

Big John Hugley- 27 points on 10-20 shooting, 10 rebounds, 2 assist, 1 block. 1 steal. I talked about Big Johns passing in the past. He could have had a lot more assists than 2 assists today if anyone else on the team besides Femi could shoot and score. He needs to lose some weight and become much quicker on defense. But offensively, again, he was terrific. These 2 players are the backbone of our future. They were my top 2 preseason breakout players. They played well on offense but both can be so much better on defense and both need to be. Its good to see Big John have a major bounce back game after Gannon. He's a significant talent still in development.


Game Ball 2nd Assist

Nate Santos- For his 1st college game in his career, I thought Nate was just fine. 5 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 0 turnovers. Those numbers aren't eye popping, but what they are for a true freshmen is someone that didn't try to do to much and be a good teammate with a perfect assist to turnover ratio in game 1 while taking good shots. The only thing missing was better shooting as he was 2-8, but, this wasn't a bad game by any means for his very first game. His defense will be better and I think he still has a good future ahead of him.


Important stats

-Pitt won the turnover margin +2
-Pitt was +4 in rebounding
-The Citadel had a true freshmen score 27 points with 8 made threes by him alone. That's obviously not included in preseason rankings / scouting reports and if he is anywhere near that good this season, The Citadel is going to be way better than people think
-Pitt had 4 total fast break points
-The Citadel shot 46% from the field and 36% from 3. Our defense was no where near good enough, although with only 1 guard on our current roster with Femi, its going to be difficult trying to apply advanced defensive pressure.


Based off what I saw today, and only today, Burton should be taking most of Jeffress minutes. That was a given anyway preseason but Jeffress just isn't ready yet as a full time starter and that was a concern of mine preseason. He will have better offensive games than he did today, but, I felt his decision making could have been much better had he looked to pass first instead of look for his shot first. I thought he was trying to do too much on offense and was not in the team flow of the offense.

Gueye was limping pretty early in the game from hard contact. It may have impacted his performance today as he looked slow.

Chris Payton only played 3 minutes. Very surprised by this, especially since, Collier and Oladapo did nothing in the time they got today. Oladaop had one of the worst turnovers in the game.

Losing Horton, Sibande, and Burton hurts. But getting Burton back is going to be a significant boost. Without him, its going to be difficult to win games this year with no other guards. The most important thing this year is for Femi and Big John to cement themselves as higher end ACC players, play within the team, and play at a quality efficiency level while putting the team on their shoulders.

Judah Mintz and Oak Hill continue to blow teams away like they did against a fringe Top 25 Nationally rated team today. Mintz, as I said previously, will start immediately along side Odukale. I expect his EYBL teammate, Buchanan, to also announce for Pitt and I think he could also help Pitt early on.

Biggest shocker today: The poor play from the PF position on offense and defense. It was just bad.
 
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Game Ball

Femi Odukale- 20 points on 8-14 shooting, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals. Offensively, he was great with very little help. Defensively, he was ok at best today. John Hugley had the best stats, but Femi's post game answers in the press conference give him the game ball. The maturity he displays as a true sophomore has so much Brandin Knight in him. No excuses why we lost, nothing about his performance overall except saying it wasn't good enough and pointing to the reasons why we lost as a team. Its almost amazing the difference between him and Xavier Johnson. For anyone that watched Indiana today, X got benched 5 minutes into the game after his 3rd turnover. X finally returned later on in the half about 12 minutes later. Femi is going to be a really, really good player and team leader as he continues to develop. He listens.

Game Ball Assist

Big John Hugley- 27 points on 10-20 shooting, 10 rebounds, 2 assist, 1 block. 1 steal. I talked about Big Johns passing in the past. He could have had a lot more assists than 2 assists today if anyone else on the team besides Femi could shoot and score. He needs to lose some weight and become much quicker on defense. But offensively, again, he was terrific. These 2 players are the backbone of our future. They were my top 2 preseason breakout players. They played well on offense but both can be so much better on defense and both need to be. Its good to see Big John have a major bounce back game after Gannon. He's a significant talent still in development.


Game Ball 2nd Assist

Nate Santos- For his 1st college game in his career, I thought Nate was just fine. 5 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 0 turnovers. Those numbers aren't eye popping, but what they are for a true freshmen is someone that didn't try to do to much and be a good teammate with a perfect assist to turnover ratio in game 1 while taking good shots. The only thing missing was better shooting as he was 2-8, but, this wasn't a bad game by any means for his very first game. His defense will be better and I think he still has a good future ahead of him.


Important stats

-Pitt won the turnover margin +2
-Pitt was -12 in rebounding
-The Citadel had a true freshmen score 27 points with 8 made threes by him alone. That's obviously not included in preseason rankings / scouting reports and if he is anywhere near that good this season, The Citadel is going to be way better than people think
-Pitt had 4 total fast break points
-The Citadel shot 46% from the field and 36% from 3. Our defense was no where near good enough, although with only 1 guard on our current roster with Femi, its going to be difficult trying to apply advanced defensive pressure.


Based off what I saw today, and only today, Burton should be taking most of Jeffress minutes. That was a given anyway preseason but Jeffress just isn't ready yet as a full time starter and that was a concern of mine preseason. He will have better offensive games than he did today, but, I felt his decision making could have been much better had he looked to pass first instead of look for his shot first. I thought he was trying to do too much on offense and was not in the team flow of the offense.

Gueye was limping pretty early in the game from hard contact. It may have impacted his performance today as he looked slow.

Chris Payton only played 3 minutes. Very surprised by this, especially since, Collier and Oladapo did nothing in the time they got today. Oladaop had one of the worst turnovers in the game.

Losing Horton, Sibande, and Burton hurts. But getting Burton back is going to be a significant boost. Without him, its going to be difficult to win games this year with no other guards. The most important thing this year is for Femi and Big John to cement themselves as higher end ACC players, play within the team, and play at a quality efficiency level while putting the team on their shoulders.

Judah Mintz and Oak Hill continue to blow teams away like they did against a fringe Top 25 Nationally rated team today. Mintz, as I said previously, will start immediately along side Odukale. I expect his EYBL teammate, Buchanan, to also announce for Pitt and I think he could also help Pitt early on.

Biggest shocker today: The poor play from the PF position on offense and defense. It was just bad.

What was Jeffress's ORTGTF?

How is Justice Kithcart doing in D2?
 
Game Ball

Femi Odukale- 20 points on 8-14 shooting, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals. Offensively, he was great with very little help. Defensively, he was ok at best today. John Hugley had the best stats, but Femi's post game answers in the press conference give him the game ball. The maturity he displays as a true sophomore has so much Brandin Knight in him. No excuses why we lost, nothing about his performance overall except saying it wasn't good enough and pointing to the reasons why we lost as a team. Its almost amazing the difference between him and Xavier Johnson. For anyone that watched Indiana today, X got benched 5 minutes into the game after his 3rd turnover. X finally returned later on in the half about 12 minutes later. Femi is going to be a really, really good player and team leader as he continues to develop. He listens.

Game Ball Assist

Big John Hugley- 27 points on 10-20 shooting, 10 rebounds, 2 assist, 1 block. 1 steal. I talked about Big Johns passing in the past. He could have had a lot more assists than 2 assists today if anyone else on the team besides Femi could shoot and score. He needs to lose some weight and become much quicker on defense. But offensively, again, he was terrific. These 2 players are the backbone of our future. They were my top 2 preseason breakout players. They played well on offense but both can be so much better on defense and both need to be. Its good to see Big John have a major bounce back game after Gannon. He's a significant talent still in development.


Game Ball 2nd Assist

Nate Santos- For his 1st college game in his career, I thought Nate was just fine. 5 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 0 turnovers. Those numbers aren't eye popping, but what they are for a true freshmen is someone that didn't try to do to much and be a good teammate with a perfect assist to turnover ratio in game 1 while taking good shots. The only thing missing was better shooting as he was 2-8, but, this wasn't a bad game by any means for his very first game. His defense will be better and I think he still has a good future ahead of him.


Important stats

-Pitt won the turnover margin +2
-Pitt was -12 in rebounding
-The Citadel had a true freshmen score 27 points with 8 made threes by him alone. That's obviously not included in preseason rankings / scouting reports and if he is anywhere near that good this season, The Citadel is going to be way better than people think
-Pitt had 4 total fast break points
-The Citadel shot 46% from the field and 36% from 3. Our defense was no where near good enough, although with only 1 guard on our current roster with Femi, its going to be difficult trying to apply advanced defensive pressure.


Based off what I saw today, and only today, Burton should be taking most of Jeffress minutes. That was a given anyway preseason but Jeffress just isn't ready yet as a full time starter and that was a concern of mine preseason. He will have better offensive games than he did today, but, I felt his decision making could have been much better had he looked to pass first instead of look for his shot first. I thought he was trying to do too much on offense and was not in the team flow of the offense.

Gueye was limping pretty early in the game from hard contact. It may have impacted his performance today as he looked slow.

Chris Payton only played 3 minutes. Very surprised by this, especially since, Collier and Oladapo did nothing in the time they got today. Oladaop had one of the worst turnovers in the game.

Losing Horton, Sibande, and Burton hurts. But getting Burton back is going to be a significant boost. Without him, its going to be difficult to win games this year with no other guards. The most important thing this year is for Femi and Big John to cement themselves as higher end ACC players, play within the team, and play at a quality efficiency level while putting the team on their shoulders.

Judah Mintz and Oak Hill continue to blow teams away like they did against a fringe Top 25 Nationally rated team today. Mintz, as I said previously, will start immediately along side Odukale. I expect his EYBL teammate, Buchanan, to also announce for Pitt and I think he could also help Pitt early on.

Biggest shocker today: The poor play from the PF position on offense and defense. It was just bad.
Who do you think will be our next head coach?

Capel isn’t getting the job done.
 
I'm not sure where you are getting that Pitt was -12 in rebounding. Pitt was actually +4 in rebounding, 43-39.

I find it interesting that you are talking up Santos' 5-2-3 line on 2-8 shooting in 27:37 of playing time when The Citadel had a freshman with a 27-5-0 line on 8-14 shooting from three. Maybe we should have brought in Jason Roche instead?

The first 22:39 of playing time that Burton gets has to come at the expense of Ezeakudo. If he was on the other team tonight he wouldn't have played even one minute, we played him nearly 23. When you are down 16 with four minutes left to go in the game and you have a guard who gets the ball right at the three point line with no defenders within 15 feet of him and shooting the basketball doesn't even enter his mind, you simply cannot play a guy like that at this level. Not even for one minute, until the game has been decided.
 
I'm not sure where you are getting that Pitt was -12 in rebounding. Pitt was actually +4 in rebounding, 43-39.

I find it interesting that you are talking up Santos' 5-2-3 line on 2-8 shooting in 27:37 of playing time when The Citadel had a freshman with a 27-5-0 line on 8-14 shooting from three. Maybe we should have brought in Jason Roche instead?

The first 22:39 of playing time that Burton gets has to come at the expense of Ezeakudo. If he was on the other team tonight he wouldn't have played even one minute, we played him nearly 23. When you are down 16 with four minutes left to go in the game and you have a guard who gets the ball right at the three point line with no defenders within 15 feet of him and shooting the basketball doesn't even enter his mind, you simply cannot play a guy like that at this level. Not even for one minute, until the game has been decided.


I read the rebounding line wrong, I corrected it.

Santos isn't supposed to be a starter. I had him for around 10 minutes per game preseason before the injuries. He got thrown into the fire. I dont think he was bad at all regardless of a 27 point freshmen performance from the other team.


I dont want Eze to play either, he shouldn't be playing. I got Femi close to 40 minutes per game at PG and Burton close to 40 minutes per game if he could handle it. Santos is going to make shots at some point. I dont have that same confidence in Jeffress to start making shots this year.
 
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The issue is that there’s no guarantee Femi and Hugley are even on the roster next year. Based on the last 3 years it’s actually more likely one of them aren’t. Plus It hasn’t even been confirmed that Mintz is signing. And besides him we have no impact players coming. And again, based on the last 3 years, it doesn’t seem like we’ll be adding many high impact transfers. Who wants to come join a 8-23 team?

So yeah. We’re screwed
 
Oh look it’s Vader, spewing another 17 paragraphs of absolutely meaningless garbage, we watched the game buddy, there are no positives, none. Also Judah Mintz is not coming here. Femi shot 2-135 from the line by the way (while standing 17 feet behind it)
This guy is talking this stinking program up like we are in contention for a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament. So absurd.
 
Official attendance tonight: 7,585

If they counted the number of limbs on all the people at the game, would that number have been as high as 7,585? I would think not.
Besides the Zoo (who were tremendous but even they could tell how bad this team is from the opening tip) … couldn’t haven been more than 450 people
 
The issue is that there’s no guarantee Femi and Hugley are even on the roster next year. Based on the last 3 years it’s actually more likely one of them aren’t. Plus It hasn’t even been confirmed that Mintz is signing. And besides him we have no impact players coming. And again, based on the last 3 years, it doesn’t seem like we’ll be adding many high impact transfers. Who wants to come join a 8-23 team?

So yeah. We’re screwed

That's the key. At least one of Femi or Hugley will be gone after or by the end of this year. Possibly before the end of the year. And if anyone thinks Mintz is coming to Pitt, I don't have much hope for you. You're hopelessly delusional. Even if he came here, he wouldn't have any ACC caliber teammates or recruits with him.
 
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They really announced that? Yikes. The football numbers are at least somewhat believable.

They could’ve at least announced like 4k.


I think at the football games they are just announcing the number of tickets in circulation, and the number they announce has nothing at all to do with the turnstile count.

On the other hand, there is no way that they had 7,585 tickets sold or given out to today's game, or really anything close to that number. Unless they printed out a stack of several thousand tickets and left them on the counter at the hospital or someplace like that, free for anyone who wanted to take one.
 
Of that, maybe 900 were in the Oakland Zoo.


Yeah, I was worried for a long time before the game that the Zoo turnout wasn't looking too good, but it seemed like a lot of kids got there shortly before the game started and those seats filled up pretty well.
 
That's the key. At least one of Femi or Hugley will be gone after or by the end of this year. Possibly before the end of the year. And if anyone thinks Mintz is coming to Pitt, I don't have much hope for you. You're hopelessly delusional. Even if he came here, he wouldn't have any ACC caliber teammates or recruits with him.
Well if any of the following happen:
Big john and/or Femi leaving and/or Capel loses Mintz.
Then he definitely needs to be gone no money or questions asked.
His whole career is riding on bringing those core guys back and getting his best recruit yet to save his job by being respectable next year.
 
Well if any of the following happen:
Big john and/or Femi leaving and/or Capel loses Mintz.
Then he definitely needs to be gone no money or questions asked.
His whole career is riding on bringing those core guys back and getting his best recruit yet to save his job by being respectable next year.
Your assessment on the chances of that happening?
 
Never fear! Burton’s 4 PPG is coming back soon!
It’s not even so much that they lost to the citadel. It’s that they were blown out. It was a never a game. They were down double digits the last 35 mins.

Yep. We're back to getting blown out like we were during the Stallings years. If Citadel can do this to us, what will the better teams on the schedule do, like the ACC teams or WVU? Get ready for getting blown out by 30+ again.
 
Official attendance tonight: 7,585

If they counted the number of limbs on all the people at the game, would that number have been as high as 7,585? I would think not.

Get out of here. I didnt go but from TV, there didn't look to be 1 person in the upper deck. That's 0 people out of 5000 seats so that would mean the rest of the arena was 100% full when it looked 75% empty besides the student sections. From TV, if looked like 750 students, 500-1000 others.
 
And attendance will get worse, as it should, as we go through the schedule. There will be times when the opposing teams may have as many fans at the games as Pitt.
 
The tone of your recruiting posts over the last 2 years looked like the building of a final four team. While that might have been optimistic, the end result is barely a team. So, not sure why I clicked on this thread….
 
The tone of your recruiting posts over the last 2 years looked like the building of a final four team. While that might have been optimistic, the end result is barely a team. So, not sure why I clicked on this thread….

Remember when he said we were just focusing on Class of 22 players because we didn't like the 21s? So far, that's resulted in 1 recruit and almost everyone else is accounted for
 
Remember when he said we were just focusing on Class of 22 players because we didn't like the 21s? So far, that's resulted in 1 recruit and almost everyone else is accounted for

Im talking further back than that. Players that would already be (or actually are already) here. Made it seem like we had this deep pipeline.
 
Remember when he said we were just focusing on Class of 22 players because we didn't like the 21s? So far, that's resulted in 1 recruit and almost everyone else is accounted for
The goal posts were always being pushed back with Capel’s recruiting but there is no more room left to move them.
 
Except for Vader's small hint of optimism I smell typical myopic, immediacy biased, worst case scenario Pitt fan negativity on full display in this thread. Like the expected outcome last night it is no surprise.

IMHO, Vader is correct that this team will improve and eventually be better than what we saw last night--although admittedly it doesn't have a high ceiling for this season.
Worst case, IMO, it will be significantly better than anything Stallings put on the floor after his first season with Dixon's holdovers.

Burton will help and, fully securing my blue and gold glasses, I believe Horton will be back by early January.
 
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My entire row was empty from me in 110 to someone in the corresponding section, other corner. All through those new padded seats in the middle section: nobody. Seems they've done a nice job walling off some open areas for premium seating for those who prefer to get sloshed in comfort while watching Pitt struggle.
 
Except for Vader's small hint of optimism I smell typical myopic, immediacy biased, worst case scenario Pitt fan negativity on full display in this thread. Like the expected outcome last night it is no surprise.

IMHO, Vader is correct that this team will improve and eventually be better than what we saw last night--although admittedly it doesn't have a high ceiling for this season.
Worst case, IMO, it will be significantly better than anything Stallings put on the floor after his first season with Dixon's holdovers.

Burton will help and, fully securing my blue and gold glasses, I believe Horton will be back by early January.


Piling on is to be expected. But I am going to double down with what I say. If Big John and Femi play at a very respectable efficiency level all season with borderline good to great numbers, the turnaround with players like Mintz, Horton, Sibande, Burton etc.. will be far, far easier assuming we get these players back in the future.

And if people don't believe me, then look at Ashton Gibbs Pitt career. When Gibbs was surrounded by high quality players like Brad Wanamaker and Gilbert Brown, he was 1st Team All ACC player getting 1 seeds and 3 seeds. Without those players and when Gibbs had to shoulder the load, his stats and efficiency numbers heavily tanked as a senior!

Big John and Femi need to play at a higher efficiency level on offense. When you add in those players above to help them and take all the weight off of them, you could see their efficiency numbers in line with old school Pitt teams that earned high seeds, at a potential high level. What those 2 did, at least for 1 game, was very encouraging.


Nothing what I wrote preseason was off for what I expected except Chris Payton. The players who started were supposed to be very small depth pieces this year. Before the injuries, I had Jeffress around 10 mpg preseason as he is only 18. No where did I think Jeffress was going to make some big jump this year like other people did. People should reread what I wrote.

We have 1 guard on the team, Femi. That alone is going to provide all kinds of problems because we cant apply any type of extra defensive pressure with 1 guard. It sucks, but it is what it is. We will use the press and traps with Mintz and Burton and a healthy lineup of guards. With 1 guard, we are very limited.
 
Piling on is to be expected. But I am going to double down with what I say. If Big John and Femi play at a very respectable efficiency level all season with borderline good to great numbers, the turnaround with players like Mintz, Horton, Sibande, Burton etc.. will be far, far easier assuming we get these players back in the future.

And if people don't believe me, then look at Ashton Gibbs Pitt career. When Gibbs was surrounded by high quality players like Brad Wanamaker and Gilbert Brown, he was 1st Team All ACC player getting 1 seeds and 3 seeds. Without those players and when Gibbs had to shoulder the load, his stats and efficiency numbers heavily tanked as a senior!

Big John and Femi need to play at a higher efficiency level on offense. When you add in those players above to help them and take all the weight off of them, you could see their efficiency numbers in line with old school Pitt teams that earned high seeds, at a potential high level. What those 2 did, at least for 1 game, was very encouraging.


Nothing what I wrote preseason was off for what I expected except Chris Payton. The players who started were supposed to be very small depth pieces this year. Before the injuries, I had Jeffress around 10 mpg preseason as he is only 18. No where did I think Jeffress was going to make some big jump this year like other people did. People should reread what I wrote.

We have 1 guard on the team, Femi. That alone is going to provide all kinds of problems because we cant apply any type of extra defensive pressure with 1 guard. It sucks, but it is what it is. We will use the press and traps with Mintz and Burton and a healthy lineup of guards. With 1 guard, we are very limited.

You are ignoring the fact that Capel is absolutely horrific at coaching.
 
You are ignoring the fact that Capel is absolutely horrific at coaching.


Its the players!

Look at Trey Mcgowens. He was a flop last year at Nebraska just like I said he would be. They lost on opening night too and he wasn't some star player in his 4th year at college. He's still a bust.

Look at X. 3 turnovers in the first 5 minutes at Indiana and put on the bench for most of the first half because of it and you could see him sulking on the bench. Indiana barely won last night with all that talent. X didn't make them better. He did the same dumb mistakes at Indiana with far more talent than us as he did here in game 1.

Who is going to win with Terrell Brown? Nobody. Not Coach K or anybody. He isnt close to being a D1 Power 6 caliber player.


The 2 guys that stood out last night were AKC and Toney. And low and behold, those two were 2 of the highest offensive efficiency ranked players at Pitt last year. AKC is going to make Capel look bad with the way Capel under used him. Toney wasn't a team player at Pitt.

No Coach is going to win with 1 guard on the team in our current situation. Nobody.
 
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Its the players!

Look at Trey Mcgowens. He was a flop last year at Nebraska just like I said he would be. They lost on opening night too and he wasn't some star player in his 4th year at college. He's still a bust.

Look at X. 3 turnovers in the first 5 minutes at Indiana and put on the bench for most of the first half because of it and you could see him sulking on the bench. Indiana barely won last night with all that talent. X didn't make them better. He did the same dumb mistakes at Indiana with far more talent than us as he did here in game 1.

Who is going to win with Terrell Brown? Nobody. Not Coach K or anybody. He isnt close to being a D1 Power 6 caliber player.


The 2 guys that stood out last night were AKC and Toney. And low and behold, those two were 2 of the highest offensive efficiency ranked players at Pitt last year. AKC is going to make Capel look bad with the way Capel under used him. Toney wasn't a team player at Pitt.

No Coach is going to win with 1 guard on the team in our current situation. Nobody.
It’s the players is an excuse in year 1. In year 4, it’s not. If that’s truly your excuse, he should be fired immediately. 90 percent of the job is recruiting and development.
 
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