We may get a new on campus football stadium soon but not for the reason you think

[jivecat]

I have seen every argument possible about why we need an on campus stadium (of which I am not in favor). An issue that most people missed during this election was the future administration's disdain for higher education both because of political leanings (left) and the absurd price. It is early but it does sound like Trump's administration is going to closely look at endowments and taxing them along with potential penalties. They plan to create the "American Academy" with these funds. It was explained to me that the best way to move around those punitive measures would be to spend the endowment. Real estate and construction are the most conservative measures and would easily move around any type of federal tax scrutiny. PITT has the 29th largest endowment ($5.5 billion) in the country and would certainly be under attack. I think much depends on how aggressive the endowment tax would be (it could be upwards of 20%) but PITT would need to quickly take money out of the endowment for a project to benefit the University. A stadium is a no brainer. They would actually lose money by not buying land and building the stadium.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I have seen every argument possible about why we need an on campus stadium (of which I am not in favor). An issue that most people missed during this election was the future administration's disdain for higher education both because of political leanings (left) and the absurd price. It is early but it does sound like Trump's administration is going to closely look at endowments and taxing them along with potential penalties. They plan to create the "American Academy" with these funds. It was explained to me that the best way to move around those punitive measures would be to spend the endowment. Real estate and construction are the most conservative measures and would easily move around any type of federal tax scrutiny. PITT has the 29th largest endowment ($5.5 billion) in the country and would certainly be under attack. I think much depends on how aggressive the endowment tax would be (it could be upwards of 20%) but PITT would need to quickly take money out of the endowment for a project to benefit the University. A stadium is a no brainer. They would actually lose money by not buying land and building the stadium.

This is actually a great point and its something that most Americans really didnt consider or care that much about. Regardless of political leanings, I think most people would agree that college costs too much so I dont think even the staunchest lefty would shed too many tears if you told them that endowment gains would start to be taxed. They do have to pay for corporate tax cuts and billionaire tax cuts somehow so this seems like just as good (or bad) as an idea as any. Last time, they took away the charity deduction and state and local income tax deduction to pay for the corporate and billionaire tax cuts.

The thing about your plan though is that endowments cannot be spent on infrastructure. I am assuming perhaps this would change if this new law passes? Maybe they want to incent colleges to spend their endowments to pass savings on to students and to build stuff without asking for government assistance (ie The Pete).

You'd have to give me the downside of this. Pitt won't be able to have as many fellowships now because their investment gains are taxed? I dont really care. I think they'll figure it out. Lets start spending some of that money and build SMF Stadium!

 

[pittdan77]

I think the cascading effect of something like that would probably eliminate the need for a college football program.

 

[joeydavid]

I have seen every argument possible about why we need an on campus stadium (of which I am not in favor). An issue that most people missed during this election was the future administration's disdain for higher education both because of political leanings (left) and the absurd price. It is early but it does sound like Trump's administration is going to closely look at endowments and taxing them along with potential penalties. They plan to create the "American Academy" with these funds. It was explained to me that the best way to move around those punitive measures would be to spend the endowment. Real estate and construction are the most conservative measures and would easily move around any type of federal tax scrutiny. PITT has the 29th largest endowment ($5.5 billion) in the country and would certainly be under attack. I think much depends on how aggressive the endowment tax would be (it could be upwards of 20%) but PITT would need to quickly takmoney out of the endowment for a project to benefit the University. A stadium is a no brainer. They would actually lose money by not buying land and building the stadium.

Churches, hospitals and universities all should be taxed... that said, he's full of shit. Unless congress can change the laws, none of this is happening.

 

[jivecat]

This is actually a great point and its something that most Americans really didnt consider or care that much about. Regardless of political leanings, I think most people would agree that college costs too much so I dont think even the staunchest lefty would shed too many tears if you told them that endowment gains would start to be taxed. They do have to pay for corporate tax cuts and billionaire tax cuts somehow so this seems like just as good (or bad) as an idea as any. Last time, they took away the charity deduction and state and local income tax deduction to pay for the corporate and billionaire tax cuts.

The thing about your plan though is that endowments cannot be spent on infrastructure. I am assuming perhaps this would change if this new law passes? Maybe they want to incent colleges to spend their endowments to pass savings on to students and to build stuff without asking for government assistance (ie The Pete).

You'd have to give me the downside of this. Pitt won't be able to have as many fellowships now because their investment gains are taxed? I dont really care. I think they'll figure it out. Lets start spending some of that money and build SMF Stadium!

This is how it was explained to me. The endowment may not be able to be used for infrastructure (although that is debatable...I think it is more for athletics) but the interest that would get taxed could be. So $275,000,000 per year would get taxed at 20%....let's say $50 million would go toward taxes owed to the government. Now take that $50,000,000 and put it toward a mortgage/construction costs for the new stadium and run that out for the next 15 years. This is how it would work....although I am simplifying much of it.

 

[pittdan77]

The endowment may not be able to be used for infrastructure (although that is debatable..

Endowments usually have very strict limitations on how they're spent.

This has been tried before and the schools it affected just did the usual avoidance that wealthy people and institutions usually do.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Endowments usually have very strict limitations on how they're spent.

This has been tried before and the schools it affected just did the usual avoidance that wealthy people and institutions usually do.

First I'll say that I think using endowment money to build a stadium is a dumb idea, and I'd love to have an on campus stadium.

However, only a portion of the endowment is restricted, and this has been discussed many times on this board after people tried to claim it was restricted. Without going back to check, I think something like 40% of Pitt's endowment is unrestricted at this point.

 

[Las Panteras]

First I'll say that I think using endowment money to build a stadium is a dumb idea, and I'd love to have an on campus stadium.

However, only a portion of the endowment is restricted, and this has been discussed many times on this board after people tried to claim it was restricted. Without going back to check, I think something like 40% of Pitt's endowment is unrestricted at this point.

My thought exactly

 

[HailtoPitt]

They can't just start spending the endowment principal. Only exception would be for money donated that was not designated and Pitt decided to place it into endowment.

 

[pittdan77]

First I'll say that I think using endowment money to build a stadium is a dumb idea, and I'd love to have an on campus stadium.

However, only a portion of the endowment is restricted, and this has been discussed many times on this board after people tried to claim it was restricted. Without going back to check, I think something like 40% of Pitt's endowment is unrestricted at this point.

I'll take your word for it. I just know that there are usually restrictions.

 

[jivecat]

They can't just start spending the endowment principal. Only exception would be for money donated that was not designated and Pitt decided to place it into endowment.

I think the principal is safe...it is the interest that is made from the endowment that is the issue. If the PITT endowment is making $275,000,000 year on interest...why are they increasing tuition by 5% per year? This is where I think the government is going to win this standoff since taxpayers help fund many of these schools.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I think the principal is safe...it is the interest that is made from the endowment that is the issue. If the PITT endowment is making $275,000,000 year on interest...why are they increasing tuition by 5% per year? This is where I think the government is going to win this standoff since taxpayers help fund many of these schools.

I don't disagree that education costs have sky rocketed, but these institutions are going to keep spending rather than be thrifty and responsible. They always have something new to build, unless it's Pitt and the new thing is a stadium.

 

[Saboteur II]

Churches, hospitals and universities all should be taxed... that said, he's full of shit. Unless congress can change the laws, none of this is happening.

I disagree. But I think that governmental entities should be prohibited from owning buildings. They remove buildings from the tax roll and do next to nothing to keep them up.

 

[jrnPitt]

I have seen every argument possible about why we need an on campus stadium (of which I am not in favor). An issue that most people missed during this election was the future administration's disdain for higher education both because of political leanings (left) and the absurd price. It is early but it does sound like Trump's administration is going to closely look at endowments and taxing them along with potential penalties. They plan to create the "American Academy" with these funds. It was explained to me that the best way to move around those punitive measures would be to spend the endowment. Real estate and construction are the most conservative measures and would easily move around any type of federal tax scrutiny. PITT has the 29th largest endowment ($5.5 billion) in the country and would certainly be under attack. I think much depends on how aggressive the endowment tax would be (it could be upwards of 20%) but PITT would need to quickly take money out of the endowment for a project to benefit the University. A stadium is a no brainer. They would actually lose money by not buying land and building the stadium.

That's a great point. Somebody should start to go after these endowments and their massive amount of resources. If nothing else making them utilize the a % of the money now could be a driving force for the economy for the foreseeable future.

 

[Las Panteras]

First I'll say that I think using endowment money to build a stadium is a dumb idea, and I'd love to have an on campus stadium.

However, only a portion of the endowment is restricted, and this has been discussed many times on this board after people tried to claim it was restricted. Without going back to check, I think something like 40% of Pitt's endowment is unrestricted at this point.

My thought exactly

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

I think the principal is safe...it is the interest that is made from the endowment that is the issue. If the PITT endowment is making $275,000,000 year on interest...why are they increasing tuition by 5% per year? This is where I think the government is going to win this standoff since taxpayers help fund many of these schools.

This is also where the student loan crisis comes into effect.

 

[PittPanther44]

This is how it was explained to me. The endowment may not be able to be used for infrastructure (although that is debatable...I think it is more for athletics) but the interest that would get taxed could be. So $275,000,000 per year would get taxed at 20%....let's say $50 million would go toward taxes owed to the government. Now take that $50,000,000 and put it toward a mortgage/construction costs for the new stadium and run that out for the next 15 years. This is how it would work....although I am simplifying much of it.

You cant just take $50M in would-be tax dollars and spend it to break even.

You might shield it from the $10M in taxes in your example. So basically have $50M put into a stadium, instead of $40M in your pocket and $10M to taxes.

 

[jivecat]

You cant just take $50M in would-be tax dollars and spend it to break even.

You might shield it from the $10M in taxes in your example. So basically have $50M put into a stadium, instead of $40M in your pocket and $10M to taxes.

I think we need to define the figures. The $50 million represents a 20% tax on the $275 million made in interest by PITT’s $5.5 billion dollar endowment. If PITT uses that $50 million on real estate or new construction, it is exempt from the tax (in this case).

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I was taken back by how much little ole Florida Atlantic is getting for the naming rights to their stadium. $22.5 million for only 15 years and then they can re-sell them.

FAU to approve $22.5M stadium naming rights deal

Florida Atlantic's board of trustees is expected to approve a $22.5 million, 15-year deal that would give Flagler Credit Union the naming rights to the school's football stadium.

www.espn.com

Just saying, wouldn't a P4 stadium like a theoretical one that Pitt would call home be worth 2-4 times that amount? There's $100 million of your $500 million price tag.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I was taken back by how much little ole Florida Atlantic is getting for the naming rights to their stadium. $22.5 million for only 15 years and then they can re-sell them.

FAU to approve $22.5M stadium naming rights deal

Florida Atlantic's board of trustees is expected to approve a $22.5 million, 15-year deal that would give Flagler Credit Union the naming rights to the school's football stadium.

www.espn.com

Just saying, wouldn't a P4 stadium like a theoretical one that Pitt would call home be worth 2-4 times that amount? There's $100 million of your $500 million price tag.

Louisville's new deal from last year is worth about $40M over 20 years.

 

[Las Panteras]

Just saying, wouldn't a P4 stadium like a theoretical one that Pitt would call home be worth 2-4 times that amount? There's $100 million of your $500 million price tatag.

I dont think so. There's roughly 2 million population in greater Pittsburgh, and perhaps 3 million total in Western PA.

There's 8 million in South Florida. It seems to me the dollar amount is based on market size and not P4 status.

 

[pittdan77]

Just saying, wouldn't a P4 stadium like a theoretical one that Pitt would call home be worth 2-4 times that amount? There's $100 million of your $500 million price tag.

Honestly don't know how your brain fabricates reality because it's nowhere close to where the rest of us reside.

 

[12162022]

This is how it was explained to me. The endowment may not be able to be used for infrastructure (although that is debatable...I think it is more for athletics) but the interest that would get taxed could be. So $275,000,000 per year would get taxed at 20%....let's say $50 million would go toward taxes owed to the government. Now take that $50,000,000 and put it toward a mortgage/construction costs for the new stadium and run that out for the next 15 years. This is how it would work....although I am simplifying much of it.

Silly. Why give the stupid government anything? And why build ANY sports facility, esp. one used 7 days/year??

 

[joefromlancaster]

Wonder if this protentional idea would move UPMC to make a LARGE contribution to the
school for athletics?
Just a question.

 

[Burgh15]

The Steelers are getting about $10 million per year from Acrisure. Pitt may be able to pull at most $2.5-$3 million per year.

 

[pittchagg]

The Steelers are getting about $10 million per year from Acrisure. Pitt may be able to pull at most $2.5-$3 million per year.

Especially since the link is for a $22.5M, 15 year deal. Which equates to about $1.5M per year.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I dont think so. There's roughly 2 million population in greater Pittsburgh, and perhaps 3 million total in Western PA.

There's 8 million in South Florida. It seems to me the dollar amount is based on market size and not P4 status.

Do you honestly think its based on market size and NOT how many people would view the advertising? FAU games arent watched by anybody. If Temple built a stadium, would its naming rights sell for more than Pitt's? No.

 

[Hardslider21]

I have seen every argument possible about why we need an on campus stadium (of which I am not in favor). An issue that most people missed during this election was the future administration's disdain for higher education both because of political leanings (left) and the absurd price. It is early but it does sound like Trump's administration is going to closely look at endowments and taxing them along with potential penalties. They plan to create the "American Academy" with these funds. It was explained to me that the best way to move around those punitive measures would be to spend the endowment. Real estate and construction are the most conservative measures and would easily move around any type of federal tax scrutiny. PITT has the 29th largest endowment ($5.5 billion) in the country and would certainly be under attack. I think much depends on how aggressive the endowment tax would be (it could be upwards of 20%) but PITT would need to quickly take money out of the endowment for a project to benefit the University. A stadium is a no brainer. They would actually lose money by not buying land and building the stadium.

You do realize that endowment funds don’t mean anything you want to spend it on right?

 

[Las Panteras]

Do you honestly think its based on market size and NOT how many people would view the advertising? FAU games arent watched by anybody. If Temple built a stadium, would its naming rights sell for more than Pitt's? No.

You are an idiot.

If the same financial institution was found in our area the $ deal for naming rights would be less here.....for the very reason you just stated: 3 million max here view the advertising.....8 million there.

Its not that hard.......

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You are an idiot.

If the same financial institution was found in our area the $ deal for naming rights would be less here.....for the very reason you just stated: 3 million max here view the advertising.....8 million there.

Its not that hard.......

You really really believe FAU can get more for naming rights than Pitt can? Im giving you another chance.

 

[Las Panteras]

You really really believe FAU can get more for naming rights than Pitt can? Im giving you another chance.

8 million pair of eyeballs and ears

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

8 million pair of eyeballs and ears

Lolololol. Its Florida mothereffing Atlantic. Nobody knows who they are and they arent even on TV. Also, FAU is in Boca Raton, not Miami. No one in Miami ever heard of it. Boca has their own local TV stations. Its not Miami

By your logic, would FIU, which is in Miami proper get a better naming rights deal than Ohio State?

 

[jivecat]

You do realize that endowment funds don’t mean anything you want to spend it on right?

Yes I do. I am explaining a potential tax penalty issue and the effect it could have on the endowment. You also realize not the entire endowment is restricted against real estate purchases/investments for the University.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Lolololol. Its Florida mothereffing Atlantic. Nobody knows who they are and they arent even on TV. Also, FAU is in Boca Raton, not Miami. No one in Miami ever heard of it. Boca has their own local TV stations. Its not Miami

By your logic, would FIU, which is in Miami proper get a better naming rights deal than Ohio State?

Louisville is the better comparison. Their new deal is for $2M per season. That's probably the max Pitt could get. So a stadium of $400M over 30 years would be (guessing) something like $15 million per year. With naming rights and initial donations, maybe that number can be lowers to under $10 million. It's really a shame Pitt didn't do it 20 or more years ago. They would be laying a lot less and nearing the end of the 30 years loan.

Unfortunately, they will never do it now. We simply don't have the administration who cares enough. Their own apathy has led to more fans who don't care enough. Which is essentially the end of Pitt football as a competitive force.its just been a really slow death.