Well, Gibbs to UConn

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sometimes I cant wrap my head around some of this stuff. It just seemed like such a no-brainer to hire Ashton, an all-time great Pitt player to land both brothers. We needed a break like this.

We haven't had any real good news for a long time. Hoping for something.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

We treated Ashton like dog crap his last year here. Knew him casually and Pitt fans were horrible to him.

It was totally fair though, Pitt is entitled to high levels of success based on name alone.

Edit: Also NCAA rules would dictate that we hire him as a full time assistant if we were to get either brother. I doubt he would skip over the Video Coordinator and DBO jobs.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I remember message board fans being critical of him but it was mostly fair analysis. I dont remember any idiotic over-the-top posts bashing him. And Pitt basketball is not a big enough local media topic to have any negative newspaper articles or drive-time radio discussing his play in a negative way.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

That was right around the advent of Twitter and, let's be serious, this board is mostly moronic and probably a fair representation of the views of the idiot faction of Pitt fans -- and Twitter tends to bring that faction out more than anything.

Gibbs was far from this program's or that team's issues at any point in time.

 

[Ski11585]

I remember message board fans being critical of him but it was mostly fair analysis. I dont remember any idiotic over-the-top posts bashing him. And Pitt basketball is not a big enough local media topic to have any negative newspaper articles or drive-time radio discussing his play in a negative way.

There was a ton of over the top negativity.

 

[mo cheeks]

Sometimes I cant wrap my head around some of this stuff. It just seemed like such a no-brainer to hire Ashton, an all-time great Pitt player to land both brothers. We needed a break like this.

We haven't had any real good news for a long time. Hoping for something.

Matt says that this is not true. he has not committed to Uconn and is likely to visit Pitt next week.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Surely uconn hired Ashton or some other Gibbs, there is no other way, clearly.

 

[DT_PITT]

Sometimes I cant wrap my head around some of this stuff. It just seemed like such a no-brainer to hire Ashton, an all-time great Pitt player to land both brothers. We needed a break like this.

We haven't had any real good news for a long time. Hoping for something.

No he has not committed to UConn.

 

[Hailpitt]

Sometimes I cant wrap my head around some of this stuff. It just seemed like such a no-brainer to hire Ashton, an all-time great Pitt player to land both brothers. We needed a break like this.

We haven't had any real good news for a long time. Hoping for something.

Revisionist history at its best. Gibbs' senior year was a disaster. The opposite of leadership--Ashton was a "crap-stirrer."

 

[thom67]

Yeah, Aston's senior year was a disaster for sure but it was not Gibbs' fault... it was Dixon's.

To try to make a long story short... for those that watch the games you could see what happened. Ashton SUCKED at PG. He was a shoot first player if ever there was one. His senior year he should have been playing ALL his time at SG with Epps spelling Woodall at PG. But, Dixon decided there was no future for Epps and so decided to give the PT to Wright and John Johnson even though that meant playing Gibbs at PG when Woodall was not in there.

Then Woodall got injured and that is when the crap hit the fan. Dixon started playing Gibbs ALL of his time at PG and playing him huge amounts of minutes... hardly getting spelled at all... and Gibbs's scoring went way down and he ended up having serious injures by the end of the season where he couldn't play at all.

Before you start saying Epps was not very good.... yeah that is true and Dixon didn't like him because he was not a hard worker... and Dixon didn't see him progressing and let him go at the end of the season. But, the thing is, Wright and John Johnson were not very good either... no better than Epps and in fact where stinking up the court for the entire season.

So, the point here... is that destroying Gibb's senior season just to give these other two suckers (Wright and John Johnson) more PT... is a Dixon decision that SUCKED BIG TIME as far as I am concerned.

If I were Sterling Gibbs... I would not even consider coming here... just because of the way by brother got treated his senior year.

One thing I will say on Ashton though... is shoot first players... usually do not make for good coaches. Yeah, I could see letting Barton go and promoting Jason Richards (who IMO has real potential as a coach) to an assistant coach job and giving the video coordinator job to Ashton... as compensation to him for what happened his senior year... and then maybe coming here would be the right thing for Sterling Gibbs.

Yeah, this whole thing re Ashton and Epps was where I lost confidence in Dixon. If Wright and Johnson were potential stars then maybe it would have justified things but... they were not for sure. Otherwise, destroying a solid player's senior year just for the sake of getting these two more PT.... well, let me not say it again.

I agree with you about Ashton's senior year, but who else was going to play point when Woodall got hurt?

 

[DT_PITT]

I agree with you about Ashton's senior year, but who else was going to play point when Woodall got hurt?

Plus, Ashton had played mostly point guard during his first three years. He wasn't a traditional point guard, but he was MORE than a capable player at the position. To suggest otherwise is not accurate.

 

[DT_PITT]

Revisionist history at its best. Gibbs' senior year was a disaster. The opposite of leadership--Ashton was a "crap-stirrer."

I have never heard one credible piece of evidence that Ashton was any kind of "crap-stirrer" as a senior. His senior season did not nearly meet expectations, but it would not seem accurate to term it a disaster.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Zara is back, which means we get to hear how epps and Gilbert needed more time.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Zara is back, which means we get to hear how epps and Gilbert needed more time.

It's fairly amusing how some folks never back down. Gilbert didn't make a peep at Fairfield and Epps was never heard from again yet they were talented enough to be key pieces for Pitt.

 

[Scruffy the Panther]

I have never heard one credible piece of evidence that Ashton was any kind of "crap-stirrer" as a senior. His senior season did not nearly meet expectations, but it would not seem accurate to term it a disaster.

I remember people on here thinking his demeanor became more "moody" senior year, but I never got that sense. He seemed to me to act like he always did on the court. But because we weren't winning people wanted to believe his attitude changed.

Also, I don't know why "hire X's dad/mom/BFF" became the new solution to our recruiting problems all of the sudden. It's not sustainable, and we've had recent history where hiring someone for a recruit didn't work out as planned (Birch/Skerry).

 

[DT_PITT]

I remember people on here thinking his demeanor became more "moody" senior year, but I never got that sense. He seemed to me to act like he always did on the court. But because we weren't winning people wanted to believe his attitude changed.

Also, I don't know why "hire X's dad/mom/BFF" became the new solution to our recruiting problems all of the sudden. It's not sustainable, and we've had recent history where hiring someone for a recruit didn't work out as planned (Birch/Skerry).

Completely agree on both points.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

agree about hiring a bff for one recruit.
dumb

 

[thebadby2]

Yeah, Aston's senior year was a disaster for sure but it was not Gibbs' fault... it was Dixon's.

To try to make a long story short... for those that watch the games you could see what happened. Ashton SUCKED at PG. He was a shoot first player if ever there was one. His senior year he should have been playing ALL his time at SG with Epps spelling Woodall at PG. But, Dixon decided there was no future for Epps and so decided to give the PT to Wright and John Johnson even though that meant playing Gibbs at PG when Woodall was not in there.

Then Woodall got injured and that is when the crap hit the fan. Dixon started playing Gibbs ALL of his time at PG and playing him huge amounts of minutes... hardly getting spelled at all... and Gibbs's scoring went way down and he ended up having serious injures by the end of the season where he couldn't play at all.

Before you start saying Epps was not very good.... yeah that is true and Dixon didn't like him because he was not a hard worker... and Dixon didn't see him progressing and let him go at the end of the season. But, the thing is, Wright and John Johnson were not very good either... no better than Epps and in fact where stinking up the court for the entire season.

So, the point here... is that destroying Gibb's senior season just to give these other two suckers (Wright and John Johnson) more PT... is a Dixon decision that SUCKED BIG TIME as far as I am concerned.

If I were Sterling Gibbs... I would not even consider coming here... just because of the way by brother got treated his senior year.

One thing I will say on Ashton though... is shoot first players... usually do not make for good coaches. Yeah, I could see letting Barton go and promoting Jason Richards (who IMO has real potential as a coach) to an assistant coach job and giving the video coordinator job to Ashton... as compensation to him for what happened his senior year... and then maybe coming here would be the right thing for Sterling Gibbs.

Yeah, this whole thing re Ashton and Epps was where I lost confidence in Dixon. If Wright and Johnson were potential stars then maybe it would have justified things but... they were not for sure. Otherwise, destroying a solid player's senior year just for the sake of getting these two more PT.... well, let me not say it again.

Dixon played Gibbs full time at the point because he had to with Woodall out. Those other guys you mentioned weren't good enough. I also suspected there was some component of Gibbs wanting to play PG since his only shot at the NBA, slim as it was to begin with, would have been as a PG. He definitely struggled with that transition after 3 years off the ball. he did not have the PG DNA, but if he'd have been groomed early in his career, he probably would have been decent on the ball. Our personnel situation those years kept him at the 2, where he really made an impact despite how one dimensional he was.

 

[Scruffy the Panther]

Zara is back, which means we get to hear how epps and Gilbert needed more time.

I don't get it. They both transferred to nowhere schools and did zilch there. John Johnson wasn't very good, but at least he was a threat from three. Epps was like 1/16 from the floor and was a threat to do absolutely nothing. Epps deserved zero playing time here because he was flat out awful.

 

[pittzap]

I remember people on here thinking his demeanor became more "moody" senior year, but I never got that sense. He seemed to me to act like he always did on the court. But because we weren't winning people wanted to believe his attitude changed.

Also, I don't know why "hire X's dad/mom/BFF" became the new solution to our recruiting problems all of the sudden. It's not sustainable, and we've had recent history where hiring someone for a recruit didn't work out as planned (Birch/Skerry).

AND, to mention again, Ashton could not be hired as a video coordinator nor director of player ops. He would have to be a full assistant.

 

[thom67]

Just a couple of points....

There was this NCAA playoff game we were in and were behind down the stretch and Dixon decided to put Gibbs at PG.... and we almost got a shot-clock violation (or DID get a shot clock violation) and the announcer commented that 'Pitt is trying to run out the clock, even though they are BEHIND'.

Yeah... Ashton Gibbs was for sure a great PG (not).

In his early years he brought the ball up the court but then got the ball to Wannamaker who ran the offense... and Wannamaker was essentially the PG.

Another item... in Ashton's senior year things got so desperate for Dixon... we were playing horrible and were looking at road games at Marquette and Cuse... so Dixon decided to put Epps in as the starter at PG (and it was funny to hear Dixon tout how good Epps was) even though he had played Epps almost none... with Gibbs moving to SG.. and it worked with Gibbs going off for a career high in points in the Marquette game. We lost but did not get embarrassed like we had been previously.

Need I say any more??? It wasn't that Epps was very good.... it's just that Wright and John Johnson (who's defense was HIDEOUS) were just as bad and at least Epps was a PG and playing him would have allowed Ashton... to play his natural position of SG.... and maybe have gone off for career highs in almost every game.

The bottom line on all this... is Gibbs' step down in his performance his senior year was not Ashton's fault but Dixon's! Some will say it was just bad luck with Woodall getting injured but.... Dixon had another option which he refused to use.... except in the Marquette game where it seemed to work just fine.

You are obviously clueless! It has been explained several times that Dixon had no choice whatsoever, but you continues to push Epps! Epps was TERRIBLE! We would have lost every game with Epps at PG.

 

[Zaratoughda]

You are obviously clueless! It has been explained several times that Dixon had no choice whatsoever, but you continues to push Epps! Epps was TERRIBLE! We would have lost every game with Epps at PG.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... but the FACT is... the one game where Dixon did use Epps at PG.... we played much better as a team than we had been.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I'm not against hiring someone if his kid is special and stays more than one season. That player can be a catalyst for other top recuirts.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Zara, you seriously need to get off this Ike Epps obsession of yours. The game you are referring to was against Marquette. In that game Epps played 26 minutes. He was 0-2 from the field, 0 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 turnover, 3 fouls. His offensive rating that game was 43, which isn't just bad, it's horrific. Pitt lost the game 62-57, which I suppose is better than what might have been expected, but that certainly wasn't because of anything Epps did. That night Ashton Gibbs scored 29 points while going 8-16 from the field, 4-8 from three, and 9-10 from the line. If you think the somewhat better than expected results that day were due to Epps and not Gibbs you've lost your mind.

That season Epps shot 6.3% from the field (and no, that's not a misprint), 0.0% from three and 0.0% (only three attempts) from the line. For the season his offensive rating was 54.8. That is absolutely awful. And that's what you think that team needed more of. Good god.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Isaiah Epps sucked. Plain and simple. I was resistant to believe it when I was told repeatedly that he was awful by a source close to the team, and then he played some games of pickup with us.

The guy was not a DI level player by the time he got to college. I played with (and sometimes against) Sam Young, Tim Frye, Mike Cook, Nick Rivers, Ryan Tiesi, Brad Wanamaker, Tray Woodall, Ashton Gibbs, Nas Robinson, Brandin Knight. Played against DeJuan Blair in HS (also Deandre Kane and DJ Kennedy, obviously). Those guys dominated and kicked ass up and down the court while giving maybe 50% effort. Maybe. Epps, for whatever reason, peaked really early and was indiscernibly better than a bunch of managers and their HS Hero friends by his sophomore year at Pitt.

Epps was ranked 40th in the country when he committed to Pitt, so obviously they wouldn't turn him down. But the guy was a disaster once he got on campus.

I will say confidently that I was a better basketball player than Epps by the time he left the team. That isn't meant as a brag. I got my ass handed to me by Tim Frye, a washed up Brandin Knight, and a rehabbing Mike Cook at that time. I played with Sam Young and was legitimately in awe of how much better he was than a normal human being. I was nothing special. I thought I might have been good enough to walk on, then Tim Frye dominated me. Epps was just horrible.

 

[Scruffy the Panther]

So what you are saying Pittbaseball11...is that Jamie Dixon made a mistake not letting you walk on and start point guard for us?

 

[drunkinoakland]

Isaiah Epps sucked. Plain and simple. I was resistant to believe it when I was told repeatedly that he was awful by a source close to the team, and then he played some games of pickup with us.

The guy was not a DI level player by the time he got to college. I played with (and sometimes against) Sam Young, Tim Frye, Mike Cook, Nick Rivers, Ryan Tiesi, Brad Wanamaker, Tray Woodall, Ashton Gibbs, Nas Robinson, Brandin Knight. Played against DeJuan Blair in HS (also Deandre Kane and DJ Kennedy, obviously). Those guys dominated and kicked ass up and down the court while giving maybe 50% effort. Maybe. Epps, for whatever reason, peaked really early and was indiscernibly better than a bunch of managers and their HS Hero friends by his sophomore year at Pitt.

Epps was ranked 40th in the country when he committed to Pitt, so obviously they wouldn't turn him down. But the guy was a disaster once he got on campus.

I will say confidently that I was a better basketball player than Epps by the time he left the team. That isn't meant as a brag. I got my ass handed to me by Tim Frye, a washed up Brandin Knight, and a rehabbing Mike Cook at that time. I played with Sam Young and was legitimately in awe of how much better he was than a normal human being. I was nothing special. I thought I might have been good enough to walk on, then Tim Frye dominated me. Epps was just horrible.

Never heard this but love hearing it now. Played with Sam before and had basketball class with some managers.

Played with a lot of football players. Robbie Agnone could have walked on for sure as an undersized 4.

PS: I stink.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

So what you are saying Pittbaseball11...is that Jamie Dixon made a mistake not letting you walk on and start point guard for us?

Hell no, always wondered if I could walk on but after playing with Tim Frye -- possibly the worst of the walk-ons -- I can say with certainty that I was nowhere near good enough.

Epps was just amazingly bad. I don't know what happened to the guy to fall from being a Top 50 recruit to absolutely horrible, but he ultimately wound up transferring to a small community college and even then he barely saw the court.

The manager I knew in college said guys from Plainfield tend to get ridiculously overrated and they all wind up busting, so maybe the Plainfield association boosted his profile. It was surreal seeing him play with a bunch of average Joes and blend right in, though.

 

[thebadby2]

Hell no, always wondered if I could walk on but after playing with Tim Frye -- possibly the worst of the walk-ons -- I can say with certainty that I was nowhere near good enough.

Epps was just amazingly bad. I don't know what happened to the guy to fall from being a Top 50 recruit to absolutely horrible, but he ultimately wound up transferring to a small community college and even then he barely saw the court.

The manager I knew in college said guys from Plainfield tend to get ridiculously overrated and they all wind up busting, so maybe the Plainfield association boosted his profile. It was surreal seeing him play with a bunch of average Joes and blend right in, though.

Wasn't Jay Williams a Plainfield kid? He was one of the best college PGs I've ever seen while at Duke, and there is no question in most people's minds that he would have been a NBA superstar had he not wiped out on his new crotchrocket and destroyed his leg after his rookie year. Not to nitpick, but he's the first guy i think of when i hear Plainfield. The second if George Clinton:

he

 

[gary2]

Plus, Ashton had played mostly point guard during his first three years. He wasn't a traditional point guard, but he was MORE than a capable player at the position. To suggest otherwise is not accurate.

I think I have to disagree with this one DT. I would have to say in no way did Ashton play mostly point guard for his first three years. I would also disagree that he was MORE than a capable player at that position.

Ashton was one of those combo guards that Harve says Dixon recruits as his twos so he has enough backups at the point. Ashton was capable of filling in maybe 3-5 minutes at a time at the point (as long as we were not playing Louisville) nothing more. When Dixon attempted to play Ashton more at the point in his senior season, it was a disaster for both Ashton and the team.

I usually agree with what you have to say, but feel you are definitely wrong here (unless you are relying on the "though not a traditional point guard" to hide the fact that Ashton was not really a point guard at all).

 

[thebadby2]

I think I have to disagree with this one DT. I would have to say in no way did Ashton play mostly point guard for his first three years. I would also disagree that he was MORE than a capable player at that position.

Ashton was one of those combo guards that Harve says Dixon recruits as his twos so he has enough backups at the point. Ashton was capable of filling in maybe 3-5 minutes at a time at the point (as long as we were not playing Louisville) nothing more. When Dixon attempted to play Ashton more at the point in his senior season, it was a disaster for both Ashton and the team.

I usually agree with what you have to say, but feel you are definitely wrong here (unless you are relying on the "though not a traditional point guard" to hide the fact that Ashton was not really a point guard at all).

I raised an eyebrow at that comment by DT as well, because my memory is he was a true scoring 2, relentlessly running off multiple screens in the half court to get an open look. He may have brought the ball up a fair amount of the time but he gave it up as soon as we settled it o our half court O, then he went to work without the ball. I would hesitate to call him a combo guard, as he really was pretty one dimensional-he was a shooter,, a true "shooting guard". Not much of a ballhandler, passer or defender. He just had a sweet stroke and he knew how to get open without the ball. Rarely did he put it on the floor and try to get to the rim. Tell you what, we could have used him the past few years. There's been an absolutely gaping hole in that backcourt where a scorer is supposed to go. the lack of any kind of scoring ability from our backcourt the past couple years has us playing with one hand tied behind our backs.

 

[DT_PITT]

I raised an eyebrow at that comment by DT as well, because my memory is he was a true scoring 2, relentlessly running off multiple screens in the half court to get an open look. He may have brought the ball up a fair amount of the time but he gave it up as soon as we settled it o our half court O, then he went to work without the ball. I would hesitate to call him a combo guard, as he really was pretty one dimensional-he was a shooter,, a true "shooting guard". Not much of a ballhandler, passer or defender. He just had a sweet stroke and he knew how to get open without the ball. Rarely did he put it on the floor and try to get to the rim. Tell you what, we could have used him the past few years. There's been an absolutely gaping hole in that backcourt where a scorer is supposed to go. the lack of any kind of scoring ability from our backcourt the past couple years has us playing with one hand tied behind our backs.

I never said he was a "great" point guard, even though he did in fact play the 1 spot for most of his time at Pitt. He wasn't at all as one dimensional as you might remember. He wasn't a great defender, but he was a decent enough passer and ballhandler. He wasn't a great penetrator though.

He would often get the team into the offense through the first half of the shot clock. However, playmaking came from the wings later in the shot clock, as you are suggesting.

But again, as a point guard, Ashton was decent enough.

 

[Zaratoughda]

I remember a game a number of years ago... against Texas... where they had a major shot blocker and with that played tight, in your face, man-to-man defense, and were giving our players difficulty bringing the ball up the court. So, what Dixon did, was have NAS bring the ball up the court because Nas was a much better dribbler than their PF was at covering him. It worked great... Nas got the ball up the court every time no problem.

So, does that mean Nas was playing the point?

I don't think so.

But, he was as much a PG in that game as Gibbs was when Wanamaker was in the game.

Wanamaker was a pretty good ball handle for a 3/4 player but... not as good as Ashton in that regard. So, Ashton brought the ball up the court. But, once he got the ball up the court he just got it to Wanamaker and it was Brad that initiated the offense.

But, this argument is getting absurd. I don't think Dixon gives a crap about whether a player is considered to be the PG or whatever. When Woodall was playing the point he brought the ball up the court and initiated the offense so he was the PG for sure. But when Gibbs and Wanamaker were there it was Gibbs that brought the ball up the court and it was Wanamaker that initiated the offense.

So, I guess you could say they SHARED the PG responsibilities.

But, if you do, then you would have to say that Nas was in part playing PG in the game against Texas.

 

[PittBaller]

We treated Ashton like dog crap his last year here. Knew him casually and Pitt fans were horrible to him.

Exactly how were they horrible to him? I mean yeah it was surprising/frustrating when he went from a top NCAA player to average at best overnight, but I can't recall anyone ever heckling him in any way.

 

[magadog]

I never said he was a "great" point guard, even though he did in fact play the 1 spot for most of his time at Pitt. He wasn't at all as one dimensional as you might remember. He wasn't a great defender, but he was a decent enough passer and ballhandler. He wasn't a great penetrator though.

He would often get the team into the offense through the first half of the shot clock. However, playmaking came from the wings later in the shot clock, as you are suggesting.

But again, as a point guard, Ashton was decent enough.

I agree DT. Ashton would start the offense, but ultimately, the offense would run through Brad.

 

[UPitt129]

Misevaluation? A lot of teams wanted epps...he just busted out. Why with you does it always come back to Dixon?

 

[KiwiJeff]

Misevaluation? A lot of teams wanted epps...he just busted out. Why with you does it always come back to Dixon?

Of course Dixon didn't evaluate him properly, neither did many other people. Sometimes kids peak early, and that's what happened here. He may have been old for his class, then when other kids caught up, he wasn't as good as expected. It happens.

 

[UPitt129]

Yep. Just stating that SMF seems to think only Dixon missed in him.

You can bet if peps had committed elsewhere he would have been the first to blast Dixon.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yep. Just stating that SMF seems to think only Dixon missed in him.

You can bet if peps had committed elsewhere he would have been the first to blast Dixon.

Like Omar Calhoun

 

[Ski11585]

Like Omar Calhoun

Man, I wanted Calhoun so bad. But he's a great name to bring up. Way too often Pitt fans view everything through this really narrow lens wherein Pitt and/or Dixon is the only one to misevaluate or miss on a target or rely on a grad transfer or fill holes. Outside of 5 or so schools, it happens everywhere.