What are the most likely buildings to be torn down or land developed in Oakland for Pitt?

[mdpitt]

CrazyPaco brought up a great topic with the Nationality Rooms and I largely agree with all of his opinion on this and have wondered why Pitt doesn't embrace a large expansion. When I was a student, the rooms were one thing that really made Pitt Unique compared to any other school I was looking at ( Pitt, Villanova, UCLA, Penn State). They are located in arguably the most unique educational building in the World.

Is Hillman Library, Quad, Law School totally off limits to be redeveloped in a Big way. Now this may sound crazy as many see them as the newest buildings but it would really be something if we had a new Grand Plan for a Tower to Match the Cathedral in a modern way. Move all administration, Law School, Library into a Glass Version of the Cathedral and make Cathedral 1 into a full blown learning facility ( unlike today) with all the great Nationalities of the world going all the way up. What a great way to attract the best the World has to offer and make one of Pittsburgh's best tourist attraction. A building doesn't make a Great Law or Business School but it sure can't hurt attract talent. I have to imagine a Digital Library Is far more important than stacks of books ( minus historic collections).

From everything I have heard, Pitt is really at a crossroads where we are being held back by Housing and class space. It's a great problem to have. We also need a lot more housing. This huge footprint could be a small community itself with retail.

Trees Hall and Fitzgerald have to be on this list I imagine.

Instead of saying how poorly thought out this is I simply want to know what buildings are not sacred and are at the top of the list to see a wrecking ball.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

If Mary Schenley cared about PITTsburgh she would have written a provision into Schenley Plaza to allow for a FB stadium. I kid

 

[levance2]

As a recent-ish student, I can say Posvar is a horrible, horrible building.

 

[Pittx9]

Honestly, I think if schedules don't conflict they could tear down the Fitzgerald Fieldhouse and play all the sports at the Pete. If that doesn't cause scheduling conflicts! Or they could build a new, more modern building at the site of the Fieldhouse for the Olympic sports. To me, that would be most important.
I haven't been to a baseball game yet at the new complex, but that place looks magnificent IMO.

 

[Palm Beach Panther]

As a recent-ish student, I can say Posvar is a horrible, horrible building.

That and the law school were built during one of the worst periods for American architecture. (Brutalism) The Library is not much better. Notice that the Cathedral and Heinz Chapel are the only buildings that Pitt ever shows on commercials? I heard back from Beeson's office re: the nationality rooms and I urge everyone to email her with their thoughts on the subject.

 

[Pghfan]

What's up with that section 8 housing down over the hill from Trees.. Was that the city or the university's way of apologizing for booting people from the ghetto to make baseball/softball fields? If so, disappointing. Prime real estate and housing that should be used for university purposes, not to support the incompetent..

A longshot of course but the VA hc system should up and move out of Oakland. that site has had numerous issues over the last few years, lawsuit central. Our veterans deserve better.. Re-invest in another location and sell land back to pitt, without UPMC knowing. I'll just go ahead and let you guys have a field day with my naïve line of thinking on this plan..

 

[RoguePanther]

Bulldoze the Library ,Law School, David Lawrance, Mervis, and Frick Fine Arts. Build a Stadium and incorporate all of these schools into the design. Have them be in the basement, first floor, adjacent wings, on the roof, in an adjacent tower...whatever. Get creative and use that land for a multifunctional building..on campus stadium included.

 

[vinniep33]

As a recent-ish student, I can say Posvar is a horrible, horrible building.

Tear Posvar, Hillman Library, DL Hall, Trees, and Fitzgerald down to the ground and build two football stadiums, one outdoor with grass and an indoor stadium with turf. I think that would be prudent, and would be an efficient use of space.

 

[Pghfan]

The fieldhouse has seen better days. What still goes on there? Wrestling, anything else?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Tear down The Pete, Field House, and Trees and build a football stadium where The Pete is, new Pete across the street where the OC Lot is and a new huge building to host vball, wrestling, gymnastics, and IM sports.

Just need to find a billion bucks to make this happen.

This will never happen of course, but if The Pete had to be sacrificed to get a new football stadium, Id be ok with it if they built a new bball arena also......without courtside luxury suites and with the ability to put the Zoo in the TV view

 

[pittdan77]

Some of those old hospitals have mold problems.

 

[Pghfan]

Tear down The Pete, Field House, and Trees and build a football stadium where The Pete is, new Pete across the street where the OC Lot is and a new huge building to host vball, wrestling, gymnastics, and IM sports.

Just need to find a billion bucks to make this happen.

This will never happen of course, but if The Pete had to be sacrificed to get a new football stadium, Id be ok with it if they built a new bball arena also......without courtside luxury suites and with the ability to put the Zoo in the TV view

Just have the pitt bball team play at the CEC..

 

[singregardless]

Volleyball, Gymnastics, and other teams have offices in there.

 

[CrazyPaco]

CrazyPaco brought up a great topic with the Nationality Rooms and I largely agree with all of his opinion on this and have wondered why Pitt doesn't embrace a large expansion. When I was a student, the rooms were one thing that really made Pitt Unique compared to any other school I was looking at ( Pitt, Villanova, UCLA, Penn State). They are located in arguably the most unique educational building in the World.

Is Hillman Library, Quad, Law School totally off limits to be redeveloped in a Big way. Now this may sound crazy as many see them as the newest buildings but it would really be something if we had a new Grand Plan for a Tower to Match the Cathedral in a modern way. Move all administration, Law School, Library into a Glass Version of the Cathedral and make Cathedral 1 into a full blown learning facility ( unlike today) with all the great Nationalities of the world going all the way up. What a great way to attract the best the World has to offer and make one of Pittsburgh's best tourist attraction. A building doesn't make a Great Law or Business School but it sure can't hurt attract talent. I have to imagine a Digital Library Is far more important than stacks of books ( minus historic collections).

From everything I have heard, Pitt is really at a crossroads where we are being held back by Housing and class space. It's a great problem to have. We also need a lot more housing. This huge footprint could be a small community itself with retail.

Trees Hall and Fitzgerald have to be on this list I imagine.

Instead of saying how poorly thought out this is I simply want to know what buildings are not sacred and are at the top of the list to see a wrecking ball.

The first question is whether it is actually serves the university well to embrace a large expansion. I don't know if bigger is always better. Quality is what matters. Pitt needs to improve quality, not quantity.

Therefore, I would submit though that Pitt-main doesn't need to grow larger, at least as far as the numbers of students. It is at a good number where it is, if it can get better at not overshooting enrollment numbers, and Oakland physically pretty much limits much further growth. Pitt has built vertically for a reason...it chose poorly when it moved from the North Side to Oakland. Actually, it chose poorly when it moved from downtown to the North Side as well. It has never had enough land, even when it was a smaller private university, and that will not change.

Yes, the brutalist quadrangle of Posvar, DL, Barco, and Hillman is very much off-limits to redevelop. Embrace the lime-stone clad, geometric brutalist wonder that is Posvar because it isn't going anywhere.

There is a reason most schools don't build skyscrapers as classroom buildings and there is a reason that classes are pretty much restricted now to the first four floors of Cathy. Students don't sit in the same space from 9-5 like people in offices do.

BTW, stacks of books are tomorrows historic collections. Library use is actually up even if physical book use is down. A library today is much more than a book repository. That is what the Thomas Blvd facility is for. And Pitt has one of the top 30 largest library collections in the country, public or private.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The fieldhouse has seen better days. What still goes on there? Wrestling, anything else?

Actually, it has undergone several major renovations since basketball left and is the primary competition venue for volleyball, wrestling, and gymnastics. It has the training facility for all Olympic sports, and also holds the offices for most non-revenue sports. It is also used for intramurals. It is overcrowded.

 

[Pghfan]

Actually, it has undergone several major renovations since basketball left and is the primary competition venue for volleyball, wrestling, and gymnastics. It has the training facility for all Olympic sports, and also holds the offices for most non-revenue sports. It is also used for intramurals. It is overcrowded.

Thanks paco, haven't been up there for awhile. I had a nice rant about the fact that 3 cookie cutter hotel chains are going up in Oakland as we speak, taking over prime real estate, but no one wanted to hear it.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Thanks paco, haven't been up there for awhile. I had a nice rant about the fact that 3 cookie cutter hotel chains are going up in Oakland as we speak, taking over prime real estate, but no one wanted to hear it.

Oakland desperately needs hotels. The whole city does, but Oakland has desperately needed them for decades.

The Hotel Indigo is going up on the Pittsburgh Tech Center on the river. That's not really prime real estate for Pitt, and that is Pittsburgh urban redevelopment authority land. Pitt does have a lot of research space down there, and that is going to be a welcome addition to that development in general but also for Pitt's researchers down there (as a restaurant will be included with the hotel).

The Residence Inn on Forbes is going up on the site of the former Allegheny Health Department building at 3339 Forbes. It is being neighbored by a private student apartment complex development. This is more towards Carlow than Pitt's campus. It is very difficult for Pitt to acquire land/buildings these days because of the city's push to put more property on the tax roles, and I doubt it had a serious shot at getting those properties (and I'm not sure it would have wanted to fight for them being so far off the core). I'd assume Pitt and UPMC are pretty happy that these are being used for a hotel project and a student housing project at no expense to them.

Another hotel, a Hyatt, is going to go up behind the Pittsburgh Athletic Association in the heart of campus. This is going up on the PAA parking lot and is going to be owned by the PAA. The PAA is doing this to supplement revenue, because like most social clubs, it isn't doing great these days.

Pitt really had little say in any of these developments.

The Pittsburgh Board of Education has recently discussed selling their hq building on Bellefield across from the Cathedral. Pitt should be AGGRESSIVELY pursing that. If that ever does get sold, and it isn't to Pitt, it would be a MAJOR fail of epic proportions.

 

[cruzer]

From my perspective, the Towers dorms are really, really dated. Of course, tearing down dorms is a difficult proposition on a campus that is already tight for living space. If you could find space to build the equivalent number of units, I wouldn't shed any tears over the loss of the Towers.

 

[Perrypanther]

What's up with that section 8 housing down over the hill from Trees.. Was that the city or the university's way of apologizing for booting people from the ghetto to make baseball/softball fields? If so, disappointing. Prime real estate and housing that should be used for university purposes, not to support the incompetent..

A longshot of course but the VA hc system should up and move out of Oakland. that site has had numerous issues over the last few years, lawsuit central. Our veterans deserve better.. Re-invest in another location and sell land back to pitt, without UPMC knowing. I'll just go ahead and let you guys have a field day with my naïve line of thinking on this plan..

Naive? Boorish, self-serving, insensitive, cruel, bigoted, etc. Maybe, but not naive.

 

[Pghfan]

Oakland desperately needs hotels. The whole city does, but Oakland has desperately needed them for decades.

The Hotel Indigo is going up on the Pittsburgh Tech Center on the river. That's not really prime real estate for Pitt, and that is Pittsburgh urban redevelopment authority land. Pitt does have a lot of research space down there, and that is going to be a welcome addition to that development in general but also for Pitt's researchers down there (as a restaurant will be included with the hotel).

The Residence Inn on Forbes is going up on the site of the former Allegheny Health Department building at 3339 Forbes. It is being neighbored by a private student apartment complex development. This is more towards Carlow than Pitt's campus. It is very difficult for Pitt to acquire land/buildings these days because of the city's push to put more property on the tax roles, and I doubt it had a serious shot at getting those properties (and I'm not sure it would have wanted to fight for them being so far off the core). I'd assume Pitt and UPMC are pretty happy that these are being used for a hotel project and a student housing project at no expense to them.

Another hotel, a Hyatt, is going to go up behind the Pittsburgh Athletic Association in the heart of campus. This is going up on the PAA parking lot and is going to be owned by the PAA. The PAA is doing this to supplement revenue, because like most social clubs, it isn't doing great these days.

Pitt really had little say in any of these developments.

The Pittsburgh Board of Education has recently discussed selling their hq building on Bellefield across from the Cathedral. Pitt should be AGGRESSIVELY pursing that. If that ever does get sold, and it isn't to Pitt, it would be a MAJOR fail of epic proportions.

Paco, I hate disagreeing with you on this, especially since you know this crap so much more than me.. But damn if I don't see these stupid ass hotel chains all over the city, ALL OVER the city.. Do you really need to build them in south Oakland? There are like 30 in shadyside/e. liberty/bloomfield area, we really need more??

I don't know, I say build them a bit further out and save the prime real estate in Oakland for really important university property (im not saying football stadium, im thinking it but im not saying it). Would it kill these billion dollar chains to put up a Marriott in edgewood-Swissvale, on the other side of frick park, maybe off of Rt 8. I see Pitt/CMU/UPMC fighting for every scrap of land in the area then a mile down the parkway, nothing but very crappy, run down areas filled with decrepit (I don't know how to spell that word) areas, literally only a mile or two down the road. Would it kill sales if you put up a residence inn near one of the million buildings falling down in east liberty? Everyone has a hard on for bakery square, give some slumlord some money for their 12k dollar property and tear it down.. How bout Washington Bvld before you get down to Allegheny River blvd. Besides the VA on the right, you got nothing over there, nothing on the left besides some bike track.. Build a hotel chain there..

I got ideas here Paco, I should be a city freakin planner.. Dude, I kid you not, when I was a little pghfan, I always had 2 ideas. Im talking like 7 or 8 years old Paco. Here it is, the land where the south side complex is now, that was an old abandoned steel mill in the 80s, id' drive by that road going home on blue belt with my dad and I always told my dad, they should build restaurants and bars overlooking the river. Second idea, in the strip, that abandoned strip on Smallman, think there might be businesses in there now but it was always abandoned prior. I was at a city with my folks, they had sort of an indoor/outdoor mall with vendors, cant recall what city I was in though. Thought they should gut that out and put vendors in there so people can walk up and down and buy stuff. Go to the strip now, you got tiny vendors all along Penn, selling their knock off steeler gear and 8 dollar cookies on a sidewalk no wider than 4'. Get that crap off of penn, so you don't have people zigzagging thru traffic and vendors trying to get up the street, I guarantee the business owners would love it, and you have a nice indoor/outdoor little strip with a river on one side.. Genious Paco, freakin genious. Im all ideas with no start up capitol though, or is it capital, not sure..

 

[Pghfan]

Naive? Boorish, self-serving, insensitive, cruel, bigoted, etc. Maybe, but not naive.

Cool, I was worried I was being naïve.. This kind of goes along with my post to paco about real estate. Tons of areas you could have built this, does it have to be on or next to campus. How bout over the hill, down past the ballparks, in that area.. A lot of run down homes that are dying for an investor to come tear down and build something new.. You couldn't put the section 8 crap there? You had to build it right next to Trees? Why?? Seriously, Why right there.. I swear if people were smart like me, this city would be wicked pissa..

 

[9nationalchampionships]

The first time I went into the towers I was a senior in high school and visiting a friend that went to Pitt on a wrestling scholarship. Don’t remember the floor he lived on but I think it was 15 or so. Anyway, it was a Friday night and when the elevator doors opened some guy was driving gold balls into the drywalls. Never forget it & yes these are waaaay outdated.

From my perspective, the Towers dorms are really, really dated. Of course, tearing down dorms is a difficult proposition on a campus that is already tight for living space. If you could find space to build the equivalent number of units, I wouldn't shed any tears over the loss of the Towers.

 

[bwh05]

They've done work to renovate the towers so I doubt they're going anywhere. Paco is right the Pgh Public School Admin Building should be something we're all over.

 

[Cap pitt]

Tear down The Pete, Field House, and Trees and build a football stadium where The Pete is, new Pete across the street where the OC Lot is and a new huge building to host vball, wrestling, gymnastics, and IM sports.

Just need to find a billion bucks to make this happen.

This will never happen of course, but if The Pete had to be sacrificed to get a new football stadium, Id be ok with it if they built a new bball arena also......without courtside luxury suites and with the ability to put the Zoo in the TV view

Absolutely tear

The first question is whether it is actually serves the university well to embrace a large expansion. I don't know if bigger is always better. Quality is what matters. Pitt needs to improve quality, not quantity.

Therefore, I would submit though that Pitt-main doesn't need to grow larger, at least as far as the numbers of students. It is at a good number where it is, if it can get better at not overshooting enrollment numbers, and Oakland physically pretty much limits much further growth. Pitt has built vertically for a reason...it chose poorly when it moved from the North Side to Oakland. Actually, it chose poorly when it moved from downtown to the North Side as well. It has never had enough land, even when it was a smaller private university, and that will not change.

Yes, the brutalist quadrangle of Posvar, DL, Barco, and Hillman is very much off-limits to redevelop. Embrace the lime-stone clad, geometric brutalist wonder that is Posvar because it isn't going anywhere.

There is a reason most schools don't build skyscrapers as classroom buildings and there is a reason that classes are pretty much restricted now to the first four floors of Cathy. Students don't sit in the same space from 9-5 like people in offices do.

BTW, stacks of books are tomorrows historic collections. Library use is actually up even if physical book use is down. A library today is much more than a book repository. That is what the Thomas Blvd facility is for. And Pitt has one of the top 30 largest library collections in the country, public or private.[/QUOTE

Honestly, I think if schedules don't conflict they could tear down the Fitzgerald Fieldhouse and play all the sports at the Pete. If that doesn't cause scheduling conflicts! Or they could build a new, more modern building at the site of the Fieldhouse for the Olympic sports. To me, that would be most important.
I haven't been to a baseball game yet at the new complex, but that place looks magnificent IMO.

absolutely I think they should tear down Fitzgerald field house build a new basketball and multipurpose arena there, tear down the Pete and build a new football stadium where the old one was "Yea right"

 

[Pghfan]

In all seriousness with regards to the Pete.. Is it me or could they have planned that a little more efficiently with regards to space used.. Maybe the "hole" was dug already from the remnants of pitt stadium but it comes off as a lot of wasted space.. Not sure if they could have dug up that road that runs up the side. Maybe it wasn't logistically possible.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Pitt should attempt to acquire any available property in or near its Oakland footprint.

They won't and will then continue to complain about space limitations.

 

[Pghfan]

Pitt should attempt to acquire any available property in or near its Oakland footprint.

They won't and will then continue to complain about space limitations.

agree.. Screwed up with Schenley.. Aspestos excuse is laughable.. Contract out a company to get rid of it, it's not that hard to dispose of, it's not the ebola virus.