If you're not sure, take a look at Drexel and Penn. They are putting together nationally ranked recruiting classes. Drexel got Austin DeSanto and others. Penn has landed Anthony Artolona, Grant Aranoff, and Jake Hendricks, among others. I don't know if these schools, with challenges equal to or greater than Pitt's, could do this without the Pennsylvania RTC, which is run by Olympic gold medalist and Penn grad Brandon Slay.
What difference does an RTC make?
- Thread starter Kreitzer
- Start date
I agree 100%. These days, a very strong RTC is critical to becoming/remaining a top tier program.
I also think it is critical for NCAA wrestling to stay interesting to the casual fan that more RTCs get stronger, because it will help balance the power/spread the wealth. As a diehard wrestling fan, Im not as concerned with the teams (other than Pitt) - I just love watching great wrestlers. For the casual fan, if the same 2 or 3 teams are winning it every year, their interest wanes.
I also think it is critical for NCAA wrestling to stay interesting to the casual fan that more RTCs get stronger, because it will help balance the power/spread the wealth. As a diehard wrestling fan, Im not as concerned with the teams (other than Pitt) - I just love watching great wrestlers. For the casual fan, if the same 2 or 3 teams are winning it every year, their interest wanes.
Guy,
I hear what you are saying but that is not how wrestling (from a team perspective) is built.
D1 National Championship history
1) Oklahoma St -33 outright 1 tie 34 total
2) Iowa- 23
3) Iowa State- 7 outright 1 tie 8 total
4) Penn St- 7 with more to come probably so they get the nod over Oklahoma
5) Oklahoma 7
6) Minnesota 3
tie 7) Arizonia St, Cornell, Indiana, Michigan St, Northern Illinois, Ohio St (1)
So out of the last 87 championship years (there was a 3 year hiatus due to WW2) 6 teams won 93% of the championships. The way Cael has the that evil empire running they have many more years of winning ahead of them. Ohio St is currently the only team capable of upending PSU.
The good news for Pitt as I am sure you are aware is that it couldn't ask to be in a better location to backyard talent then it currently is. If Edinboro could be ranked 3rd in the country then Pitt can reach the heights too. The problem is in years past that talent went everywhere but Pitt. Hopefully Gavin can change that.
I hear what you are saying but that is not how wrestling (from a team perspective) is built.
D1 National Championship history
1) Oklahoma St -33 outright 1 tie 34 total
2) Iowa- 23
3) Iowa State- 7 outright 1 tie 8 total
4) Penn St- 7 with more to come probably so they get the nod over Oklahoma
5) Oklahoma 7
6) Minnesota 3
tie 7) Arizonia St, Cornell, Indiana, Michigan St, Northern Illinois, Ohio St (1)
So out of the last 87 championship years (there was a 3 year hiatus due to WW2) 6 teams won 93% of the championships. The way Cael has the that evil empire running they have many more years of winning ahead of them. Ohio St is currently the only team capable of upending PSU.
The good news for Pitt as I am sure you are aware is that it couldn't ask to be in a better location to backyard talent then it currently is. If Edinboro could be ranked 3rd in the country then Pitt can reach the heights too. The problem is in years past that talent went everywhere but Pitt. Hopefully Gavin can change that.
Not sure what your point is (not being argumentative) about that not being how great teams are built - because what you point out IS my point. Look at the most recent 20 years of champs - ALL have strong RTCs. A quality RTC is critical to top tier success, individually and definitely as a team.
You guys do remember that building a strong RTC was one of Gavin's main points from the day he was hired. He had to go to Ohio State's RTC because none was available here. Goal is to cover each of the 6 Olympic weight classes. We've made great progress in a few short months.
I'll also remind you that RTC's are built entirely from donations. Pitt alums are 100% responsible for any growth or lack thereof. Hopefully people step up and it's the former not the latter.
I'll also remind you that RTC's are built entirely from donations. Pitt alums are 100% responsible for any growth or lack thereof. Hopefully people step up and it's the former not the latter.
Absolutely I recall that.
And it's not just alumns that can donate - it's anyone and everyone! Mine is forthcoming for sure. Won't be as big as someone's
though....I was not being argumentative either, I was just commenting on you stating more teams need to win the NC. I don't see other teams contending anytime soon no matter how good their RTC is.
I agree. The program that Pitt should try to emulate right now is Lehigh. For the most part they are exactly what you describe. There is no reason for Pitt to be less than that.
Lehigh enjoys great financial support. See video:
One other thing that I feel separates Lehigh from Pitt is that the Lehigh Valley newspaper (the name escapes me) really covers the sport. The Post Gazette is terrible. The Trib is better covering high school wrestling, but leaves a lot to be desired in terms of covering Pitt.
One other thing that I feel separates Lehigh from Pitt is that the Lehigh Valley newspaper (the name escapes me) really covers the sport. The Post Gazette is terrible. The Trib is better covering high school wrestling, but leaves a lot to be desired in terms of covering Pitt.
I agree Lehigh has a serious program with financial support. That is my point,Pitt should work it way to being like them. Lehigh has a great recruiting base with high academic standards. Pitt has even better recruiting base, and similar if not slightly lower academic standards. Pitt should be following the Lehigh or even the Cornell blueprint. The PSU, Ohio St, Iowa, Okie St. blueprint will not work here at this current stage.
I wasn't suggesting that in the next year or 2 some team is going to contend that isn't PSU, OSU, tOSU, Iowa, etc. My point is that I believe that to be a top tier team (i.e., consistently top 10) you need to have a quality RTC. Historically (prior to the 2000s) RTCs weren't as widespread and critical to success.
Of course it will take more financial support, every thing evolves around that. I am talking more about recruiting. Lehigh is comfortable with who they are. A high percentage of their wrestlers come from a 3 hour car ride of campus with an extremely low percentage being longer than a 6 hour drive. They are based in an area that allows them to do that an be successful. Basically they compete for recruits against PSU, Cornell, and that is it as major competition because they are not recruiting far from home.
Pitt is in a similar situation as we have an even better backyard (IMO) and again only PSU and Ohio St. to compete against as major competion (Pitt should be able to be out Edinboro, Clarion, Lock haven, and WVU) for most local recruits.
The traditional powers like PSU, Iowa, Ohio St, Okie St, they do not follow that 3 hour car ride blue print, they look far and wide for the best wrestlers no matter how far they are from campus. The only reason why PSU's roster looks like Lehigh's blueprint roster is because PA is that damn talented.
I agree and didn't think you were suggesting there would be different champs every year soon either. My only point is that I am not sure if it will ever change. Wrestling is too much of a niche sport, because of that only a few schools are willing to put the necessary resources into competing at a top level. Then you have programs like Edinboro or Clairon were wrestling is the top sport but they don't have anymore resources to put into the program to get them to that next level. What Edinboro accomplished a few years ago reaching number 3 was amazing but it is not a yearly occurrence. IMO there is only one maybe 2 programs that could make significant improvement from their current standings and that is Pitt and to a lesser extent WVU. Otherwise I see it being the usual suspects for the foreseeable future.
But that alreadulynis Pitt's blueprint. Most of the kids are already wishing that radio is as described so they are already following the Lehigh "blueprint".
And I disagree that other teams can't break in and compete for national titles. PSU has a stranglehold on the top spot - sure. But ASUnhas done some great things recently (yes - I know they won one back in the 80's) and ISU is in a great position to make some noise in a few years (again, I know they have won it in the past).
My point being that the top HS talent flocks to schools attached to really good RTCs b/c they have aspirations beyond college and/or they know that to get to the top of the college podium their best chance is with the type of training partners they can get at RTCs. So - the more quality RTCs that are developed, the more the talent spreads across other schools. Which, to me, is a good thing. There is a reason PSU has guys committing to walk on and be 2 and 3 deep at a weight who could start and earn good schollie money elsewhere.
And I disagree that other teams can't break in and compete for national titles. PSU has a stranglehold on the top spot - sure. But ASUnhas done some great things recently (yes - I know they won one back in the 80's) and ISU is in a great position to make some noise in a few years (again, I know they have won it in the past).
My point being that the top HS talent flocks to schools attached to really good RTCs b/c they have aspirations beyond college and/or they know that to get to the top of the college podium their best chance is with the type of training partners they can get at RTCs. So - the more quality RTCs that are developed, the more the talent spreads across other schools. Which, to me, is a good thing. There is a reason PSU has guys committing to walk on and be 2 and 3 deep at a weight who could start and earn good schollie money elsewhere.
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