What Kevin Stallings most needs to succeed

[PhilipVU94]

I followed him for 17 years at Vanderbilt so I'm pretty confident in this assessment. He needs a trusted assistant who can provide a "good cop" as a buffer against his "bad cop" (or abusive father) approach. I'm not a big fan of the old school thing--it's the obvious inability to control his own anger that bothers me most--but as I posted on the Illinois thread there's patchy evidence from Vanderbilt that it can still work. But he must be selective in recruiting kids who respond, and he must have the good cop assistant.

For our great 2012 team (unlucky not to be Sweet 16) that was King Rice, now HC at Monmouth. It's less clear to me whether Tom Richardson, Dan Muller, a younger Rice, or who was playing that role in 2007. Richardson was at Vanderbilt for the really disappointing 2016 season, and at Pitt this year, so I'm doubtful that he's been playing that role effectively.

Anyway, I don't know your staff but keep an eye out for this dynamic. I suspect it's the only way Kevin can keep from undermining his own program through his personality.

Incidentally sometime in the 2000s he supposedly had to complete anger management training to keep his job. I don't think he's retained much from it.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Input from Vandy fans is very welcome being you guys know him best. Good insight. How do you like Drew so far?

 

[PhilipVU94]

Input from Vandy fans is very welcome bring you guys know him best. Good insight. How do you guys like Drew so far?

Hard not to like him as of the last two months. We struggled early with the new system--no way I thought the NCAA was a possibility--but things fell into place around late January.

I don't think our struggles this year were Kevin's fault, really--just part of rebuilding after losing two NBA-caliber talents and a coaching transition.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

How does Pitt's incoming class compare to Stallings classes at Vandy?

 

[PhilipVU94]

I don't know enough about Pitt's recruiting to really know but the little that I heard sounds similar. He and his staff actually recruited really well at Vanderbilt. That 2012 team had several players among the best we've had for a long time (Jenkins, Taylor--and a little known Nigerian kid who turned out to be not bad, named Festus Ezeli). I don't know why his players haven't done better in the NBA but he's certainly brought talent relative to fair expectations of the program.

 

[Big Marty1]

Stallings has to not only connect with his players but also we season ticket holders. Dixon felt like a Pitt man. Yes the move to the ACC proved difficult but Jaime was alwaya accessible to us. He was a great guy in the community. Stallings has felt more like the former Vanderbilt coach. Lot of work to do.

 

[Piranha]

Stallings has to not only connect with his players but also we season ticket holders. Dixon felt like a Pitt man. Yes the move to the ACC proved difficult but Jaime was alwaya accessible to us. He was a great guy in the community. Stallings has felt more like the former Vanderbilt coach. Lot of work to do.

Winning would solve that problem.

 

[maxxwell]

Winning would solve that problem.

Well then, expect the problem to persist.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Thanks for your input. Really do appreciate. Unfortunately it really doesn't instill any more confidence from me in Stallings, and I know if it doesn't for me, I am sure it really doesn't for alot of others on this forum.

 

[DT_PITT]

I followed him for 17 years at Vanderbilt so I'm pretty confident in this assessment. He needs a trusted assistant who can provide a "good cop" as a buffer against his "bad cop" (or abusive father) approach. I'm not a big fan of the old school thing--it's the obvious inability to control his own anger that bothers me most--but as I posted on the Illinois thread there's patchy evidence from Vanderbilt that it can still work. But he must be selective in recruiting kids who respond, and he must have the good cop assistant.

For our great 2012 team (unlucky not to be Sweet 16) that was King Rice, now HC at Monmouth. It's less clear to me whether Tom Richardson, Dan Muller, a younger Rice, or who was playing that role in 2007. Richardson was at Vanderbilt for the really disappointing 2016 season, and at Pitt this year, so I'm doubtful that he's been playing that role effectively.

Anyway, I don't know your staff but keep an eye out for this dynamic. I suspect it's the only way Kevin can keep from undermining his own program through his personality.

Incidentally sometime in the 2000s he supposedly had to complete anger management training to keep his job. I don't think he's retained much from it.

Interesting.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Interesting.[/

What is your definition of interesting? Something that is very alarming. Lol

 

[DT_PITT]

haha.

Well, it is a message board post, and as such, must be taken with an appropriate grain of salt.

Let's just say alarming if true.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Hard not to like him as of the last two months. We struggled early with the new system--no way I thought the NCAA was a possibility--but things fell into place around late January.

I don't think our struggles this year were Kevin's fault, really--just part of rebuilding after losing two NBA-caliber talents and a coaching transition.

Thoughts on Dan Muller? He and King Rice seem like the most likely Stallings' former assistants to land a bigger gig in the near future. Seems like Muller was present during Stallings' good run at Vandy before the recent disappointments of final four years there... He left after Vandy won the SECT for Illinois State, no?

 

[KiwiJeff]

A players coach with anger issues toward his players? What could go wrong with that?

 

[vegasgreed]

the stallings tenure will have a lot of turnover.

 

[levance2]

Now let's wait for the @SchmidtyNole rebuttal

 

[PantherDave724]

I appreciate your insight Phillip. But, I just don't want a coach who has anger issues or needs a "good cop" to offset his crappy attitude. From any angle you look at it, the Stallings hire has been a disaster. He's just not a good person.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I appreciate your insight Phillip. But, I just don't want a coach who has anger issues or needs a "good cop" to offset his crappy attitude. From any angle you look at it, the Stallings hire has been a disaster. He's just not a good person.

In this day and age, we hired a coach who had to take Anger management classes and told a player he will effing kill them. Nice Barnes.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

A players coach with anger issues toward his players? What could go wrong with that?

He goes through a metal detector prior to each game and practice what more do you want???? Takes his shoes off etc. you know the drill.

This is what bothers me about PITT admin hiring anybody for anything:
SP
Hayward
Toddy
Barnes
Stalling

This is a long list of loser hires in a short period of time!

 

[wbrpanther]

I followed him for 17 years at Vanderbilt so I'm pretty confident in this assessment. He needs a trusted assistant who can provide a "good cop" as a buffer against his "bad cop" (or abusive father) approach. I'm not a big fan of the old school thing--it's the obvious inability to control his own anger that bothers me most--but as I posted on the Illinois thread there's patchy evidence from Vanderbilt that it can still work. But he must be selective in recruiting kids who respond, and he must have the good cop assistant.

For our great 2012 team (unlucky not to be Sweet 16) that was King Rice, now HC at Monmouth. It's less clear to me whether Tom Richardson, Dan Muller, a younger Rice, or who was playing that role in 2007. Richardson was at Vanderbilt for the really disappointing 2016 season, and at Pitt this year, so I'm doubtful that he's been playing that role effectively.

Anyway, I don't know your staff but keep an eye out for this dynamic. I suspect it's the only way Kevin can keep from undermining his own program through his personality.

Incidentally sometime in the 2000s he supposedly had to complete anger management training to keep his job. I don't think he's retained much from it.

Thanks for the input. Actually when you think about the makeup of our team this year, Stallings may have retained more from his anger management than some might think.

 

[Ski11585]

Call me a snowflake if you want; "Abusive father" is not a term I'd like associated with a coach.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Thanks for the input. Actually when you think about the makeup of our team this year, Stallings may have retained more from his anger management than some might think.

No doubt. There are some kids who are never going to get it. KS doesn't seem like the kind of guy who can work with those types, though to be fair, JD had his fair share of problems with the same kids. Some coaches are able to coax production out of lesser players (JD) or less motivated players. KS doesn't seem like that guy. I think he needs recruits who fit a certain profile and come in with thick skin and the ability to work hard.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Call me a snowflake if you want; "Abusive father" is not a term I'd like associated with a coach.

Abuse would be playing mind games, ridiculing and mocking kids, denigrating them, yelling when they haven't done anything wrong, stuff like that. Getting on kids and yelling from time to time does not equal abuse. I have no idea if he goes to that other level (beyond just yelling) but I haven't seen it yet.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

The only part that really gives me pause is knowing he hasn't been nearly as successful the last five seasons sans Dan Muller and King Rice on his staff.

 

[gary2]

The only part that really gives me pause is knowing he hasn't been nearly as successful the last five seasons sans Dan Muller and King Rice on his staff.

Good assistants generally have a much greater impact than mitigating head coaches anger issues. Maybe Muller and Rice were great recruiters, excellent advance scouters or great at player development.

Dixon was less successful with lesser assistants. Was that because no assistant was there to reign in his "so called" micromanaging personality?

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Good assistants generally have a much greater impact than mitigating head coaches anger issues.

Same seemed to impact Dixon with Skerry and Slice Part 2 not even lasting a season followed the safe Smoke hire. Not to mention retaining Barton. Beforehand, Lombardi, Slice 1, Herrion, Rice, Sandle, etc. seemed to have a very positive impact here. Seems he's corrected that at TCU but we'll have to see if the super young Frogs improve as they should next year and the year after.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Same seemed to impact Dixon with Skerry and Slice Part 2 not even lasting a season followed the safe Smoke hire. Not to mention retaining Barton. Beforehand, Lombardi, Slice 1, Herrion, Rice, Sandle, etc. seemed to have a very positive impact here. Seems he's corrected that at TCU but we'll have to see if the super young Frogs improve as they should next year and the year after.

It will also be interesting how long he is able to keep that staff together in Ft. Worth.

 

[KiwiJeff]

In this day and age, we hired a coach who had to take Anger management classes and told a player he will effing kill them. Nice Barnes.

We need "extreme vetting" next time.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Call me a snowflake if you want; "Abusive father" is not a term I'd like associated with a coach.

I think we are all in agreement with this. Like I said, the OP didn't instill any more confidence in Stallings that already had. In fact, less.

 

[IamHeisenberg]

Stallings has to not only connect with his players but also we season ticket holders. Dixon felt like a Pitt man. Yes the move to the ACC proved difficult but Jaime was alwaya accessible to us. He was a great guy in the community. Stallings has felt more like the former Vanderbilt coach. Lot of work to do.

Ironically, I liked Dixon but to me he did not feel like a Pitt man to me after his first flirtations with another team. The move to TCU seemed inevitable if you followed the post season shenanigans.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Ironically, I liked Dixon but to me he did not feel like a Pitt man to me after his first flirtations with another team. The move to TCU seemed inevitable if you followed the post season shenanigans.

Yes. Nothing wrong with looking but it didn't instill a lot of confidence that he would be sticking around.

 

[IamHeisenberg]

Yes. Nothing wrong with looking but it didn't instill a lot of confidence that he would be sticking around.

I had no problem with him seeking dollars but I didn't figure he was often wearing blue and gold on vacations. But maybe with today's $$$$$ driven athletics atmosphere every coach is merely a temp employee.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I had no problem with him seeking dollars but I didn't figure he was often wearing blue and gold on vacations. But maybe with today's $$$$$ driven athletics atmosphere every coach is merely a temp employee.

There's not alot of loyality in any profession these days.
People go where the money is.
Portable 401k's make it easier move.
Employees over 55 sometimes take their 401k's, lump sums move, and start another career!
Coaches seem to follow the money in college and pro's except for some of the blue blue football and basketball programs.

 

[PhilipVU94]

Abuse would be playing mind games, ridiculing and mocking kids, denigrating them, yelling when they haven't done anything wrong, stuff like that. Getting on kids and yelling from time to time does not equal abuse. I have no idea if he goes to that other level (beyond just yelling) but I haven't seen it yet.

To be clear, I draw a big distinction between yelling at student/athletes tactically knowing that it will help them perform their best; and an inability to control one's own anger. Honestly there arguably are gradations in between but I still see a distinction. My impression is almost every MCBB coach does the former from time to time.

I don't think anyone lacking self-control can come close to maximizing their effectiveness, especially not in a demanding role like MCBB head coach.

For example, Coach K chewing out players comes to mind, but I don't ever recall thinking he was out of control of his emotions.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Ironically, I liked Dixon but to me he did not feel like a Pitt man to me after his first flirtations with another team. The move to TCU seemed inevitable if you followed the post season shenanigans.

Really? I have criticisms of Jamie, but this was far from one of them. The fact he was here for 13 years indicates he is much more of a "Pitt man" than most "Pitt men".

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

To be clear, I draw a big distinction between yelling at student/athletes tactically knowing that it will help them perform their best; and an inability to control one's own anger. Honestly there arguably are gradations in between but I still see a distinction. My impression is almost every MCBB coach does the former from time to time.

I don't think anyone lacking self-control can come close to maximizing their effectiveness, especially not in a demanding role like MCBB head coach.

For example, Coach K chewing out players comes to mind, but I don't ever recall thinking he was out of control of his emotions.

And, amongst Vandy fans, was Stalling more in the lack of self-control category or the tactical category?

 

[PhilipVU94]

And, amongst Vandy fans, was Stalling more in the lack of self-control category or the tactical category?

I don't think there's any question he's lacking in self-control.

As people grew unhappy, more VU fans criticized his in game basketball tactics (X's and O's): doesn't use enough quick time outs, etc. But imo he's still a really sharp basketball guy. His inbounds plays are particularly effective. When Keady and Williams praise him, it doesn't sound like empty rhetoric for a former assistant.

If he could stop trying to be a latter-day Mean Gene or Bobby Knight, he'd be rightfully regarded as a great coach.

 

[PhilipVU94]

BTW a lot of our fans on both sides got hung up on the words used when he said, "I'll f***ing kill you," to Wade Baldwin after Wade taunted the hated Vols.

"But he threatened a player!"
"Give me a break! People use that figure of speech all the time."

etc.

To me the words are beside the point. You could say, "C'mon, Wade, if you show up an opponent again I'll f***ing kill you," with half a smile and no one would think twice. It's the fact that relatively mild player misconduct sends him into an out of control rage that was the real issue.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Now let's wait for the @SchmidtyNole rebuttal

I think Stallings just needs time. He is the real deal as a coach. But he needs to get his own recruits in there and things will turn around.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I think Stallings just needs time. He is the real deal as a coach. But he needs to get his own recruits in there and things will turn around.

Real Deal. The Real Deal? All of these coaching openings over the last 17 years at jobs better than Vandy and he never was considered.