What's wrong with Capel's recruiting?

[JS School]

I'm asking for opinions, not defending him.

I don't follow recruiting that closely, but I think he's had 4 guys that ranked about 90th (McGowens, Drumgoole, Jeffers, Hugley). Should he have know that probably 3 of these guys were overrated and passed? Or did he target and land them precisely because everyone knew that they were overrated?

Does he get credit for finding guys like X, Champ and Femi? (not sure, but I think they were about 230th)

Is it a lack of depth, not enough guys about 150th?



We can debate by how much, but I think this team would significantly better if Sibande and Horton were available. I think that, while not great, his recruiting may have been okay.

 

[wbrpanther]

I'm asking for opinions, not defending him.

I don't follow recruiting that closely, but I think he's had 4 guys that ranked about 90th (McGowens, Drumgoole, Jeffers, Hugley). Should he have know that probably 3 of these guys were overrated and passed? Or did he target and land them precisely because everyone knew that they were overrated?

Does he get credit for finding guys like X, Champ and Femi? (not sure, but I think they were about 230th)

Is it a lack of depth, not enough guys about 150th?



We can debate by how much, but I think this team would significantly better if Sibande and Horton were available. I think that, while not great, his recruiting may have been okay.

Other than the fact that he doesn't appear to be able to sign anybody, nothing.

 

[gary2]

I'm asking for opinions, not defending him.

I don't follow recruiting that closely, but I think he's had 4 guys that ranked about 90th (McGowens, Drumgoole, Jeffers, Hugley). Should he have know that probably 3 of these guys were overrated and passed? Or did he target and land them precisely because everyone knew that they were overrated?

Does he get credit for finding guys like X, Champ and Femi? (not sure, but I think they were about 230th)

Is it a lack of depth, not enough guys about 150th?



We can debate by how much, but I think this team would significantly better if Sibande and Horton were available. I think that, while not great, his recruiting may have been okay.

I thought his recruiting was fine. I was encouraged. With Hugley, maybe “we were back”?

His problem was his inability to mold, control, Coach and maintain his players.

He lost me with the complete tear down and lack of effective recruiting in the last late period.

I am not one for allowing a nearly complete do over. Why would you expect it to be different?

 

[JS School]

Other than the fact that he doesn't appear to be able to sign anybody, nothing.

At this point, next year is certainly discouraging. But I'm talking about his completed classes to this point.

 

[JD1976]

The guys he has landed have been solid for the most part. Champ was obviously a lottery ticket. The part that is criminal is he had a 1-person class last year and has zero signees next year. That seems almost impossible considering he has had (and has moving forward) open slots to recruit.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It’s less who he has recruited and more his inability to retain the players he has recruited. The new transfer rules have exacerbated the problem.

 

[DT_PITT]

Other than the fact that he doesn't appear to be able to sign anybody, nothing.

Other than that …

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Yea he has nobody for ‘22. And many said he took it easy on ‘21 to focus on ‘22. So in summary I’d suggest absolutely everything is wrong.

 

[JS School]

I wanted an evaluation of the players he has brought in. I guess the anger of not having anyone yet for next year isn't going to allow for that.

I'm saying that the players he has gotten in the past are not why this program is so bad now. It's coaching, chemistry, retention, whatever. Yeah, nobody is signed now because of where we are at. But I don't think his initial recruiting is what led to this. I disagree that he was a poor recruiter initially. I don't think where we are now is due to past recruiting, although the future looks bleak due to current recruiting.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

If he had a good group of freshman this year or a good class coming in next year, then I’d say give him another year. But we don’t. 1 freshman last year and nobody for this year.

 

[JS School]

If he had a good group of freshman this year or a good class coming in next year, then I’d say give him another year. But we don’t. 1 freshman last year and nobody for this year.

I guess it seems I'm defending him, even though my very first sentence said I'm not defending him. But I've read posts saying we expected him to recruit well and he hasn't, and I'm saying he initially did okay. I suppose I could have thought of a better title to this thread. Or not started it, just responded directly to the posts I'm talking about.

 

[pittchagg]

He doesn’t recruit enough players. Every year we target a bunch of guys, and end up backing off of 80% of them - many who seem primed to commit.

It’s not necessarily fatal to have a program who churns through players. Don’t think it’s ideal, but it happens and teams still have success. It does become fatal when you churn through players and don’t bring in enough players to replace them. Capel’s 2020 class with Femi, Hugley, Jeffress, etc. should have been the baseline for class size in all of his classes given the turnover we’ve had.

 

[JS School]

He doesn’t recruit enough players. Every year we target a bunch of guys, and end up backing off of 80% of them - many who seem primed to commit.

It’s not necessarily fatal to have a program who churns through players. Don’t think it’s ideal, but it happens and teams still have success. It does become fatal when you churn through players and don’t bring in enough players to replace them. Capel’s 2020 class with Femi, Hugley, Jeffress, etc. should have been the baseline for class size in all of his classes given the turnover we’ve had.

That's the type of answer I was looking for. Losing two guards would have hurt anyways, but it didn't make sense that we only had four on scholarship to begin with. None of whom were an actual PG. Seems odd that he didn't/couldn't bring one in, particularly since he was one himself.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Probably needs to find 10 wins and bring in quality recruits and transfers in the spring. If not, it is hard to imagine Capel being brought back next year.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I dont buy that Champagnie was some lowly recruited player.

I wanted an evaluation of the players he has brought in. I guess the anger of not having anyone yet for next year isn't going to allow for that.

I'm saying that the players he has gotten in the past are not why this program is so bad now. It's coaching, chemistry, retention, whatever. Yeah, nobody is signed now because of where we are at. But I don't think his initial recruiting is what led to this. I disagree that he was a poor recruiter initially. I don't think where we are now is due to past recruiting, although the future looks bleak due to current recruiting.

Misevaluations of guys like Drumgoole, Collier, and Jeffress are absolutely part of the reason we are where we are. All 3 of those guys were ranked high enough to be high level ACC players by now and all are mid-major at best.

 

[sonofabit]

The guys he has landed have been solid for the most part. Champ was obviously a lottery ticket. The part that is criminal is he had a 1-person class last year and has zero signees next year. That seems almost impossible considering he has had (and has moving forward) open slots to recruit.

Not just open slots, but plenty of guaranteed playing time. That still rattles the brain. Guaranteed ACC minutes and no takers, especially at the 5.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

If he had a good group of freshman this year or a good class coming in next year, then I’d say give him another year. But we don’t. 1 freshman last year and nobody for this year.

Hiring a guy who can navigate both of ends of the transfer portal will be a must for Pitt.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

The 3 core guys transferring were his death knell.
What was he selling them that they didn't get?
Why is he having so much trouble navigating building a roster?
Wasn't that his strength?
He's a former player, a former P5 HC and was an asst in this same conf for years.
His current roster and recruiting right now are like a program operating under sanctions and by someone in way over his head.
Has he given up?
I don't get it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The 3 core guys transferring were his death knell.

See, I disagree. That 1st full class, which is supposed to be your best since you are new and selling your vision was the killer. Those kids should be juniors right now and key players. Instead, we literally have no one left. Had that class been strong, we could have withstood the first class transferring.

Murphy
Drumgoole
Coulibaly (has only played 63 minutes in the last 8 games)

Its nearly impossible to do any worse than that. Murphy couldn't get off the bench at Duquesne, Drumgoole was a mid-major role player at best and although Coulibaly is on a team, he isnt even in the rotation. He is basically their Collier and Vader/Steel Curtain/Dokish always says how they have no depth yet he can't get any time. Champagnie was a good get but he was gone before we ever did anything.

Then the next class also wasnt good

Hugley and Femi, ok. But Jeffress and Collier have not proven to be anything more than mid-major role players.

Then the next class, we sign only Santos and he's more of a longer-term option.

And of course 0 for this year. You are correct, we are recruiting like a team who is facing sanctions or something.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Hiring a guy who can navigate both of ends of the transfer portal will be a must for Pitt.

Do you have any scoop on our list of potential candidates? My realistic list is below.

Ryan Odom
Richie Riley
Todd Golden
Nico Medved
Russell Turner
Jeff Boals
Dennis Gates

 

[gary2]

Do you have any scoop on our list of potential candidates? My realistic list is below.

Ryan Odom
Richie Riley
Todd Golden
Nico Medved
Russell Turner
Jeff Boals
Dennis Gates

Turner might get us some international players

I would like Wes Miller from Cincy. Would be a hard get, but confident he could get it done.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Turner might get us some international players

I would like Wes Miller from Cincy. Would be a hard get, but confident he could get it done.

Todd Golden has brought in a bunch of international players as well.

 

[TWPitt]

Do you have any scoop on our list of potential candidates? My realistic list is below.

Ryan Odom
Richie Riley
Todd Golden
Nico Medved
Russell Turner
Jeff Boals
Dennis Gates

I wish we would have gone harder after Nate Oats last time around.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I wish we would have gone harder after Nate Oats last time around.

I wanted Oats or Musselman last go around.

 

[TWPitt]

I wanted Oats or Musselman last go around.

Yeah they both would have been solid , thought Muss wanted something bigger than here.

Oats I thought we had a legit shot at.

 

[PittPoker]

I dont buy that Champagnie was some lowly recruited player.

Misevaluations of guys like Drumgoole, Collier, and Jeffress are absolutely part of the reason we are where we are. All 3 of those guys were ranked high enough to be high level ACC players by now and all are mid-major at best.

Or maybe they aren't being developed well here. I think the consensus from most on here is that Milan Brown and Jason Capel bring nothing to the table and Jeff imo really doesn't either.

 

[PittPoker]

I wish we would have gone harder after Nate Oats last time around.

Or Enfield or Musselman.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Do you have any scoop on our list of potential candidates? My realistic list is below.

Ryan Odom
Richie Riley
Todd Golden
Nico Medved
Russell Turner
Jeff Boals
Dennis Gates

No idea but Ryan Odom, Boals and Riley seem like the only likely on that list and that’s if Riley can’t get Clemson first.

Boals would bring some fun to the wvu rivalry. They HATE each other

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

No idea but Ryan Odom, Boals and Riley seem like the only likely on that list and that’s if Riley can’t get Clemson first.

Boals would bring some fun to the wvu rivalry. They HATE each other

Golden - Assistant at Columbia, so he has some experience in the NE. Currently San Fran.

Turner - Played college ball in VA and was under Odom at WF for awhile. ACC Ties. Currently UC Irvine.

Gates - Cleveland St now and prior assistant at FSU

Medved - Colorado St. can’t be paying that much.

You’d think we would easily triple their current salary and provide them an opportunity to coach in a weakened ACC. Why would these 4 turn it down?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Golden - Assistant at Columbia, so he has some experience in the NE. Currently San Fran.

Turner - Played college ball in VA and was under Odom at WF for awhile. ACC Ties. Currently UC Irvine.

Gates - Cleveland St now and prior assistant at FSU

Medved - Colorado St. can’t be paying that much.

You’d think we would easily triple their current salary and provide them an opportunity to coach in a weakened ACC. Why would these 4 turn it down?

I don’t care who the coach is , what concerns me is that even going back to JD Pitt is always in recruits top 5 , there’s something missing at Pitt that JD , KS and now JC can’t seal the deal .

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Golden - Assistant at Columbia, so he has some experience in the NE. Currently San Fran.

Turner - Played college ball in VA and was under Odom at WF for awhile. ACC Ties. Currently UC Irvine.

Gates - Cleveland St now and prior assistant at FSU

Medved - Colorado St. can’t be paying that much.

You’d think we would easily triple their current salary and provide them an opportunity to coach in a weakened ACC. Why would these 4 turn it down?

Not sure about any of them other than Gates who didn’t take equal jobs last year. His wife is an administrator at BC and he pulled himself out of that job. I think he’s just waiting for Hamilton to retire.

 

[JS School]

One other thought. I'm not familiar with the typical itinerary when a recruit visits, but I think they spend some time hanging out with current players. As dysfunctional as Capel's teams have been, I can't imagine any recruit getting a positive vibe about the program from the players. Maybe that's why his recruiting has fallen off a cliff.

 

[JD1976]

I have a buddy in the college coaching profession who thinks the world of Kyle Smith, formerly of San Fran and now at WaZZU. Wasn’t necessarily in the context of Pitt, however.

Same guy says Ryan Odom is the real deal. Now that he is at Utah State he is getting a taste of coaching higher level basketball and recruiting another level up. Next stop ACC due to his knowledge of that conference thru his father.

 

[TheLogicalTake]

Hiring a guy who can navigate both of ends of the transfer portal will be a must for Pitt.

Aptitude with the portal is great, but I really want someone who is dedicated to building the program primarily through HS recruits and only uses the portal to augment the lineup. This program needs talent first, but stability is going to be so important. Losing a kid here and there is the way of the world now but this thing needs to be built on stability/roster continuity

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Aptitude with the portal is great, but I really want someone who is dedicated to building the program primarily through HS recruits and only uses the portal to augment the lineup. This program needs talent first, but stability is going to be so important. Losing a kid here and there is the way of the world now but this thing needs to be built on stability/roster continuity

Those days are probably over, unfortunately.

 

[Dointhatrag]

At this point we have no path to even sniffing post season play or even an upward trajectory for the program. Last year felt like it was headed in the right direction until it all came crashing down.

 

[DT_PITT]

Those days are probably over, unfortunately.

Probably needs aptitude for both.