As I scroll through various sites that cover college sports I notice a somewhat alarming trend. The criticism and critiques of these student athletes is down right mean at times. It's not the other kids Im referring to its grown men and women bashing these kids and it got me to thinking where does one draw the line and do you think these kids open themselves up to harsh criticism when they play college sports at the highest level?
Where to draw the line
- Thread starter Usuallyunusual
- Start date
These kids want the spotlight. Everything comes with consequences.
Writers are critical by trade because their own rejections have jaded them. Remember all the hyperbole surrounding the Penguins in 2012-2015? They may as well have packed up and left town. It’s not often you find an unbiased journalist because his or her personal experiences have a lot to do with his or her tone. I say this as a guy with a BA in English. I just never pursued writing because unless you’re George RR Martin or Steven King you’re living check to check for a long time.
At this level....I mean these guys want all the adulation and perks and fame, well there is a flip side to that I am sorry. If it offends your delicate sensibilities, then you have a problem, not the critics.
I agree with you to a degree. The social media world has created a new monster though in my opinion.
These guys are getting a free college education. I'm surprised a developmental league for kids who don't want to go to college hasn't been created where they can get cash instead of scholarships.
Yes they are amateurs
Pretty good racket-
They provide the athletes something which cost them nothing and earn bank on it .
Save your animosity for the actual pros- the coaches
Sure pay them and programs like PITT and many other pack up any sport when athletes get paid.
Programs like PITT can barely afford football now!
It would take take a lot of program out of D1.
The athletes get paid now! Free tuition,
Many of you "so called" PITT supporters would love to see PITT struggle more than it currently is when it comes to football!
Pay the players PITT football goes away.
Lol. I didn't say i was leaning either way on the topic, I just wanted to present it for discussion. I see both sides of the argument .and I'm not sure how i feel about the matter. As a parent I wouldn't want people publicly bashing my kid over football, but I would also hope I raised them with thick enough skin to deal with the world we live in today.
Socialist
I’m okay with the market working it out- it’s only entertainment.
With big ballers like you- I’m sure we’d be fine.
State Universities aren't for profit entities.
No market forces are in play!
State schools supported for the most part by tax payer dollars and are in the business to educate kids not put kids in the NFL or NBA.
I'm for creating a minor football and basketball league which would be free market driven and let the rest, the real scholar athletes play college football and basketball for a free education.
Yeah well....I mean some of these "kids" get paid more than you and I so.......not all on the up. But hey, if they want to be in this environment, comes both the spoils and the foils.
How old are you? You don't think Pitt was paying players back in the day? Hell, they paid them in the Sutherland era. They paid them well during the Sherrill/Majors/Foge/Gottfried era. (And basketball too).
That's cool cause you can save money with High School like stadiums cause no one would care. I am fine with this too. But it changes everything and I don't want to see that garbage televised. And neither will anyone else. But hey, you and the Mrs can go get drunk and talk white people stuff with others.
College football is what it is. For every Ohio State, there are four Ohio Universities. Without the Ohio States of the world, the Ohio Universities would not be able to field a team with 85 scholarship players. That is 85 kids that get a free education. The Ohio States in college football, the big time programs, and the P 5 conferences that make the mega bucks keep the system float.
in addition, nobody forces athletes to accept the scholarship. There are other choices in life at which you can make a living.
So-
To recap-
You said a lot of words to say nothing while
Arguing contradictory points-
Or your normal noise
Give them the opportunity to quit and attend college like a normal student where no one will pay them any attention and where they pay tuition.
Oh wait, they already have that choice and I they choose this anyways.
Never mind
Oh wait, they already have that choice and I they choose this anyways.
Never mind
I have a strong (and I believe quite reasonable) opinion about this topic.
It seems reasonable and fair for a fan to point out a particular player who isn’t playing well or who isn’t acting mature or who isn’t being a team player as long as that fan is not unnecessarily cruel to the individual player by saying blanket statements like “That player sucks” (or even worse) if that player has had an off game. Stating that the player “looked horrible in yesterday’s game” or “He ought to sit until he gets a little better” at least makes it clear you are criticizing the player for a particular performance.
The truth is that every kid on the Pitt roster has some talent or they would not be playing at the D1 level. Some recruits will end up playing much better than others for a number of reasons. In most cases the criticism being directed at those players who don’t play as well should be aimed at the coaching staff. If a player is playing often and he mostly struggling out on the field, then likely it is either a poor job on the part of the coaches for not recruiting the right players or not coaching and preparing the players they did recruit properly or even not being able or recognize who their best game-day players really are.
While players ought to be giving there absolute best in return for the scholarship they receive, they do not deserve to be berated by grow ups ((especially fans 40 and over). At some point we need to act like grown ups, show some class and a present a certain level of maturity (that includes me too) and we need to remind ourselves that this is just a game played by college students (some barely out of high school)... and personally crucifying a college player publicly for struggling in a game says a lot more about us fans and our maturity level than it does about that individual player.
If it is a situation where a players falls short of an expected standard, the coach ought to be smart enough to recognize it and replace him with another player who is ready to step up and take over. If he doesn’t, we ought to be questioning the coach(es), yet we are tempted to take it out on the player.
Most of these players are giving their best with the skill level they have and the level of coaching they are getting... so again... it would be wise for us to remember the buck ought to stop with the coaches who are the recruiters, the teachers and (for the most part) the decision makers.
Think about it: When the coaches do their part, when they get the things right that they are paid handsomely to get right, none of us have too many bad things to say about any of the players. How many Pitt players were criticized during the glory years of the mid 70s through the early 80s. Not too many.
If a player continues to struggle game after game and still the coach keeps him in the game, is it ultimately the player we should be criticizing or is it the coach who leaves him in the game because he was unable to recruit someone better to play in his place.
I admit to having been a bit tough on certain players in some of my posts over the years, but I try to keep my criticism about a specific performance and not make an unfair blanket statement about that player. Even then, I remind myself that much of my frustrations with poor play on the field should really be directed at the coaches.
Just a thought.
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Much like grown ass man need to validate criticism of college kids -
It’s a choice to be an asshole
The answer is simple -
If a kid isn’t good enough you don’t blame the kid
You blame the pro coaches for playing them and not having someone better.
I try never to get too critical of individual college athletes. Especially those who are the depth guys thrown into a role due to injury, crappy recruiting etc. For example I was greatly disappointed by the productivity from our tight end position last year, since it's become such a value add position in modern offenses. But I never uttered a bad word of the actual guys who (tried to) man the position. The deficiency was totally on the highly compensated coaches. The coaches wholly own the failure of not bringing in better tight ends and/or being too dense to design plays competently.
But as far as public criticism...the way I've always seen it...I played a bunch of sports mostly poorly in school, and acted the fool many times as a student. That's a similarity I had with scholarship athletes.
The difference is that my sports abilities did not warrant anyone following my poor performance or noticing my dumb antics. That lack of critical attention was a blessing. But had the obvious flip side that...my abilities did not warrant anyone following my poor performance or noticing my dumb antics!
I think I would have gladly accepted the public notice and criticism, had I gave been good enough to warrant the attention in the first place. Because even with the sting of the critique, I am still basking in being a "one percenter" of sorts, getting a sweet, sweet free ride (and perks) for a silly game.
And like anyone getting ripped, gotta consider the source. If Kenny Pickett would overhear a comment by, say, Ben Roethlisberger that he sucked in the game last week, he might be legitimately hurt by that. But when an anonymous jabroney posts it somewhere on a stupid message board, or even (especially) a fat, old, drunk, worthless piece of rat dung like Ron Cook writes it in a column ... Kenny is wise to laugh it off.
But as far as public criticism...the way I've always seen it...I played a bunch of sports mostly poorly in school, and acted the fool many times as a student. That's a similarity I had with scholarship athletes.
The difference is that my sports abilities did not warrant anyone following my poor performance or noticing my dumb antics. That lack of critical attention was a blessing. But had the obvious flip side that...my abilities did not warrant anyone following my poor performance or noticing my dumb antics!
I think I would have gladly accepted the public notice and criticism, had I gave been good enough to warrant the attention in the first place. Because even with the sting of the critique, I am still basking in being a "one percenter" of sorts, getting a sweet, sweet free ride (and perks) for a silly game.
And like anyone getting ripped, gotta consider the source. If Kenny Pickett would overhear a comment by, say, Ben Roethlisberger that he sucked in the game last week, he might be legitimately hurt by that. But when an anonymous jabroney posts it somewhere on a stupid message board, or even (especially) a fat, old, drunk, worthless piece of rat dung like Ron Cook writes it in a column ... Kenny is wise to laugh it off.
Wrong. Boards like this, Televised games and 100,000 people don't go to games to watch "nice, college kids". Zion Williamson and some guard from Laroche aren't playing the same sport. This is the defacto minor leagues. It is childish to not think so.
The fact that these kids are playing in front of nationally televised audiences makes it almost impossible for them to not be criticized or critiqued. I agree with the points made about considering the source of the critic, but some fans or alumni at programs like Michigan Ohio State Notre Dame etc take their sports too seriously. I remember years ago a college kicker was receiving death threats from fans after missing a game winner. I like the notion that the coach should bear much of the blame ex. The famous Mike Gundy rant and shame on any POS coach that throws their kids under the bus. I don't know why any parent would want their kid to play for the screaming lunatic Brian Kelly.
They had the booster/donor money back in the day to pay players. Under the table, the money bag on the doorstep method!
Paying players today means they become employees or contractors and the comp payments would be an "official" university expense and IMO would lead many programs that break even or lose money on football to cancel football the largest sports program expense.
Actually you suggested it not me.
This sounds perfect!
When can we start!
We started out living in Princeton and watched Ivy League football for many years and had lots of fun just like you suggested.
Always went to the Harvard /Yale game just like a NC.
We loved the Ivy chant when they played a good non Ivy program who was pummeling them.
"it's all right, it's ok, you'll be working for us one day."
Those kids actually got it and understood what college was all about!
Education, fun, and you get to maybe play and watch college sports.
PS
You can go to minor league games or watch the same stars that way.
We go to the Iron Pigs minor league baseball games its great baseball.
It's a Phillies minor league team, we're not Phillies fans, but the baseball
really good!
We go to the Iron Pigs minor league baseball games its great baseball.
It's a Phillies minor league team, we're not Phillies fans, but the baseball
really good!
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college kids are 18-22, aka grown ass men. a lot of these "kids" are in their 20s, or in other words, adults.
but yes, your point remains, people do take it to far and are A-holes, my idea and yours aren't mutually exclusive. but getting a free ride and the perks that go along with it obviously outweight insults from anonymous A holes on social media or they'd quit..
pretty easy to avoid this criticism, just put your phone down..
It may be.
It shouldn't be.
It should be college sports and the minor leagues should be the minor leagues.
Eventually there'll be a handful of Clemsons, Alabama's, North Carolina's and Dukes and no one else close enough to compete.
Those few programs will be the ones who make lots of money, want players paid causing financial problems for the remainder of college programs who break even or lose money.
That's not college sports that's a professional sports programs faking it as college programs.
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There's a difference between on a message board or something like that saying Player X did not play well, or he is not P5 level material. I don't think those types of comments and criticisms are out of line. Now, tweeting at Player X and telling him "he sucks" or worse, death threats, well that (IMO) is not valid whether they are college or pro. That is just people being assholes, which evidently is in vogue nowadays.
Absolutely agree on Brian Kelley. And coaches like him. I'll certainly acknowledge he's a good coach. But that persona is simply too much. There are lots of good schools and good programs and good coaches who don't act like that. Sure, a coach needs a semblance of toughness, and to a degree I'm sure he consciously eggs on some it knowing he's on TV. But he carries it way way way too far. This ain't the US Marines (and I doubt even drill sergeants in the Marines act this way any longer). Yeah it's kinda fun to see a coach flip out a bit but the outright abuse he displays and gets away with is too much.
Because, frankly, maybe ND players are ok and tough enough to deal, but the real issue is, he acts that way on tv each week and lauded by the ass kissing NBC announcers who aren't allowed to criticize ND ... then then jackass grass root level small-dick-big-mouth-paunch-gut coaches at the peewee, junior high, regular high school (the ones that don't recruit and act like Lil NFL teams, just field regular old teams) levels think it's fine to abuse their players too.
A
anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
Guest
I get your point. However, these guys like to live in the limelight and want all the praise and glory when things are going great. I have no problem with criticizing a players performance. Now if your making it personal ( calling a kid a slob, etc) then you've crossed the line in my opinion. Most of these guys will take the negative comments and turn them into positives by working harder. It's a high risk high reward game unfortunately
personal insults towards a college or professional player are over the line. criticizing their play, ON THE FIELD, is 100000% acceptable. if they suck on the field, you can say "this player sucks" I mean, it's not exactly intelligent, thought provoking rhetoric but it's fine.
you start attacking a player's life, family, or personal insults, it's time to turn the tv off and hang out with the family, maybe go out to dinner, enjoy a movie or take a walk in the park.
I've seen it on here a lot. people making fun of someone's height, I see a ton of posters questioning a player's intelligence level, accusing a player's mom of having an affair with a HC's brother, I mean all of this happens on this board daily. those are over the line without question.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It's situational. Old enough to get butchered in some war that started before they were born but not old enough to have a beer (which I don't really understand).
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Agreed. Like the thread fat-shaming the OL-men at a waterpark. Out of line.
Saying, "Kenny Pickett needs to play better if Pitt is going to win 10 games" is a factual statement. But there are reasons some people might disagree. That's cool too.
Some of that other garbage is just embarrassing and stupid.
I mostly agree. They are pros and minor celebrities. Although I think they should be paid more, the $5K/year cost of attendance, housing stipend, free food, free housing, and free tuition is a lot of compensation.
