Whipple

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

What is funny......is these bubble screens, or these lateral quick passes to often stationary wide receivers are more risking than throwing 20 yard post patterns. These laterals, when not completed are often fumbles. These laterals (bubble screens) if not thrown in a position where the guy is running and has momentum usually results in big losses if they are complete. You might as well run the ball if you are going to do them. At least running the ball, it is safer, your OL starts getting a rhythm and then you can do much more (like and actual friggin PLAY ACTION PASS) off of the run.

I don't mind quick throws, quick hitters, provided they are FORWARD and if dropped or missed are incomplete rather than potential fumbles.

I loved the hiring of Whipple, but each game I am not liking it more and more. Is it the QB? I dunno. I also think Whipple (and Pickett) have been hamstrung by the TE and drops overall. I still maintain if we had a decent TE right now, we are no worse than 7-2 and likely 8-1.

 

[lilspainishflea]

What is funny......is these bubble screens, or these lateral quick passes to often stationary wide receivers are more risking than throwing 20 yard post patterns. These laterals, when not completed are often fumbles. These laterals (bubble screens) if not thrown in a position where the guy is running and has momentum usually results in big losses if they are complete. You might as well run the ball if you are going to do them. At least running the ball, it is safer, your OL starts getting a rhythm and then you can do much more (like and actual friggin PLAY ACTION PASS) off of the run.

I don't mind quick throws, quick hitters, provided they are FORWARD and if dropped or missed are incomplete rather than potential fumbles.

I loved the hiring of Whipple, but each game I am not liking it more and more. Is it the QB? I dunno. I also think Whipple (and Pickett) have been hamstrung by the TE and drops overall. I still maintain if we had a decent TE right now, we are no worse than 7-2 and likely 8-1.

I rewatched the game and he called a pretty good game in the 1st half. Lots of WR open. I guess I still somewhat quibble with the lack of rushing attempts. No deep attempts at all after KP threw it into double coverage.

The 2nd half was way worse. Kept going to the same lateral throwing game over and over, and this time GT was ready for it. 2 bubble screens on 2nd/3rd and long. One of them was a TFL. One of them was absolutely blown up and we're lucky it didn't lead to a fumble. Not nearly enough rushing attempts.

On the sack play with Pickett. It was a 3rd and 2-4. Play action fake and bootleg to the right. He had two pass catchers (Gragg and NGS?) absolutely WIDE open for big gains but Ulizio didn't block the DE, who ran to Pickett totally unblocked. Anyway, it was a nice design, just not well executed.

But yeah, there was no reason to stop running the ball against GT. If our only choices are to throw behind the LOS and hope Shockey Jacques-Louis blocks the hell out of his man so Ffrench doesn't get murdered and fumble the ball or an inside handoff against a team playing a walk-on DT and another true freshman DT, I prefer the latter by a mile.

 

[the_insider_]

I’ll just say this - the second halves of games is no different than Watson. But the fact we can’t even get a communication process for plays other than running to the sideline is telling.

Ok, KP has said multiple times he prefers going to the sidelines to get the play rather than wearing a wrist band. Those are the two options in college. I do not believe you can have an ear piece in your helmet in college.

 

[cease10]

Whipple is an inexperienced playcaller at the FBS level. Check his resume.

His only big time OC duties were 2yrs at Miami.

 

[chirurgo]

The MAIN issue with this team on offense is, has been, and will remain game management. The scheme could be fine and the talent isn't the issue many want to believe it is. That was an atrocious offensive game plan and there's no other way to describe it. Ga-Tech came in with one of the worst rushing defenses in the ACC. Play calling wise in the first half it was 30 pass plays called to 14 designed runs. And lets forget for a moment that Ga-Tech doesn't stop the run real well and remember that the Pitt passing game accounted for 3 brutal turnovers in the Miami loss. So it should come as no surprise that they accounted for 3 more in the first half yesterday. So for those keeping track, at halftime yesterday the passing offense had accounted for 6 turnovers over the previous 6 quarters. To say it's having a hard time finding any rhythm or consistency would be a massive understatement. Which makes the continued reliance on it all the more mind boggling. This isn't to say they should abandon the passing game, but there is simply no common sense involved with opening the game with that kind of pass/run ratio against a poor rushing D when our passing game is still trying to find any shred of consistency. Maybe, just maybe it would make sense to attempt establishing a run game early and pass off of that. We have capable backs. It's also inexcusable that AJ Davis had only 5 touches in the first half. He can and should be a featured back and over the last month he's done nothing but deliver when given the chance. Against a poor rushing D like that he should've had 25 carries. On the season he's averaging 4.6 yards a carry. Lean on him sooner and see if that can stabilize the offense a little bit. The sequence after the long fumble return really summed up a lot of the game management issues. It was a clueless series of plays. This defense has played well enough to overcome a ton of offensive problems including a staff that seems hell bent on putting that D in awful positions week in and week out. It makes no difference why the passing game is struggling. Whether it's drops, ball security after the catch, poor throws, bad protection, whatever. Opening that game with 30 designed pass plays in the first half just isn't smart and reeks of a coordinator more hell bent on proving his way works than he is designing a game plan that targets the opponents weakness. They got another road win and that's all that matters, but Whipple needs to be much, much better.

Great post! Did you dictate it or type it?

 

[SisadaPITT]

Whipple is an inexperienced playcaller at the FBS level. Check his resume.

His only big time OC duties were 2yrs at Miami.

That's why he is at Pitt, he was retired after being fired, we were his lifeline

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Any one of us can point the finger at Whipple or PN or any one of a number of offense players and say they are the problem with this offense- and they would all be right - They all own a piece of the blame:

A QB who shows confidence and poise at times, but also continually makes some really bad decisions, is inconsistent with his passes, stares down his receiver, and at times throws to players whims the sticks on third down who have no shot at getting a first down.

WRs/TEs dropping too many balls they shouldn’t.

A head coach who has stepped in at key moments of the game more than once making an executive decision to have plays called which make no logical sense and end up crippling his team’s chance to win. He’s also ultimately responsible for not having more quality players at every position on offense.

An OC who is clearly a step up from the last guy, but still at times calls plays that have no chance of success even taking out skilled players who are the hot hand and replacing them at key moments with other players who have not been effective... though the truth is he is working with mostly average to below average talent (e.g. TEs) at most positions. If the QB or TE or the OLine or RBs were a little higher caliber (and PN stayed out of some key decisions), It is very likely Pitt would be undefeated.

An OLine that is not at the level it should be (though better than expected taking into consideration the lack of experience prior to this year).

They all need to look in the mirror and point the finger.

One note to keep in mind (though not meant to excuse anyone)... Whipple didn’t promise this offense would be great this year- and neither did PN.

Pickett and the receivers were the ones talking like they were going to be special.

Thank goodness we at least have such an exciting defense to watch.

 

[PittFamily2]

What is funny......is these bubble screens, or these lateral quick passes to often stationary wide receivers are more risking than throwing 20 yard post patterns. These laterals, when not completed are often fumbles. These laterals (bubble screens) if not thrown in a position where the guy is running and has momentum usually results in big losses if they are complete. You might as well run the ball if you are going to do them. At least running the ball, it is safer, your OL starts getting a rhythm and then you can do much more (like and actual friggin PLAY ACTION PASS) off of the run.

I don't mind quick throws, quick hitters, provided they are FORWARD and if dropped or missed are incomplete rather than potential fumbles.

I loved the hiring of Whipple, but each game I am not liking it more and more. Is it the QB? I dunno. I also think Whipple (and Pickett) have been hamstrung by the TE and drops overall. I still maintain if we had a decent TE right now, we are no worse than 7-2 and likely 8-1.

All is good except for "I loved the hiring of Whipple."
His UMass team has won, I think 2 games this season.
He didn't build much, he didn't leave them much, he left them a pile of
stuff.
Why cant we find someone, an OC from a league other than a tinker toy league who wants to hang around??

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Is it the QB? I dunno. I also think Whipple (and Pickett) have been hamstrung by the TE and drops overall. I still maintain if we had a decent TE right now, we are no worse than 7-2 and likely 8-1.

I agree and will take it a step further.

If Pitt still had Ollison or Hall, They’d be 8-1 or 9-0

Peterman at QB... 8 or 9 wins

Aston at FB... at least 8 wins

We have seen great play calling help make up for having solid but not top tier recruits and the opposite is true- we have seen great recruits help make up for solid but not great play calling (and likely would have seen that this year on offense).

 

[Usuallyunusual]

They had what 280 or so yards in the first half? You have to think once they get the lead, HCPN tells Whipple to not get crazy and eat some clock. This isn't on Whipple, no matter how smart some Pitt fans try to be

At least in the last game i don't blame him. 3 really bad 1st half turnovers.

 

[runshadyrun]

So, do you think Whipple bails if Narduzzi is dictating the second half go into your shell offense? When hired, I thought he was supposed to have complete autonomy on the offensive side of the ball

 

[Joe Magarac]

All is good except for "I loved the hiring of Whipple."
His UMass team has won, I think 2 games this season.
He didn't build much, he didn't leave them much, he left them a pile of
stuff.
Why cant we find someone, an OC from a league other than a tinker toy league who wants to hang around??

Although I hate to say it; the cesspool hired their OC from a tinker toy league (Fordham). They were quite successful. It is the Jimmies and Joes.

 

[Macchiato]

Is as bad as HCPN. That was as inept a series of play calls that I ever have seen. Instead of getting the momentum from Bright’s return, GT has all of the momentum.
if Kessman misses the FG, we are toast.

We ran the Wildcat and it went 61 yards for a TD. How many times have we run it since? None.

Greg Cross still waiting for his number to be called

 

[pittbb80]

The Steelers did the same thing and would have gotten burned save for a missed FG. In both cases the common denominator appears to be the OCs lack of confidence in the QB

 

[PittFamily2]

I agree and will take it a step further.

If Pitt still had Ollison or Hall, They’d be 8-1 or 9-0

Peterman at QB... 8 or 9 wins

Aston at FB... at least 8 wins

We have seen great play calling help make up for having solid but not top tier recruits and the opposite is true- we have seen great recruits help make up for solid but not great play calling (and likely would have seen that this year on offense).

Ditka, Marino, May, Dorsett, MCoy he'd do good.

But he has who he has. Whipple must adjust to the talent level and focus on each players skill sets each year. Everyone is different and good coaches recognize this and get the most out of each player.

 

[Brokklee]

They need a big back that can also be a run threat in short yardage . Brandon George would be a really good candidate. Carter as well both big kids both can run the ball between the tackles.

 

[PittFamily2]

They need a big back that can also be a run threat in short yardage . Brandon George would be a really good candidate. Carter as well both big kids both can run the ball between the tackles.

Great point.
Every team needs that guy.
The guy who can get you 4 yards on first down and 1 yard when its 4th and 1.
Now you start 2nd and 6 yards, and you score the TD on 4th and 1 which would have added two wins to the PITT record.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Would love to know what Whip thinks of Beville! If Beville is the real deal and we get him some weapons at WR who can catch and break tackles this offense would score TDs and not just set up for FGs.

 

[pitt2533]

To this point, I am not a fan of Whipple.

Is the offense struggles because of Whipple? Pickett? Lack of weapons? Conservative Coaching from Narduzzi?

I think it is probably a little of everything but it needs to be better.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Would love to know what Whip thinks of Beville! If Beville is the real deal and we get him some weapons at WR who can catch and break tackles this offense would score TDs and not just set up for FGs.

I didn’t like the way PN excluded Beville from those earlier conversation about potential backups to Kenny. The kid obviously thought he had a shot to play, and Narduzzi didn’t even mention him as possible option in his comments to the press.

I completely get that Beville must earn his way onto the field, but sometimes I wonder if the coaches are so focused on the current starter that back ups with legit talent are a little neglected.

I could be wrong, but I don’t see either of the two QBs ahead of Beville having a particularly high ceiling. Beville may still be learning the playbook or even making mistakes in practice, but it’s not like the staring QB is playing lights out.

If Beville has shown real potential of being the heir apparent, then PN and Whipple need to stop screwing around (with the mentality that PK is 100% their QB next year) and start getting Davis a bit more involved in the offense to see what he’s got- even if that just means giving him more reps in practice - running certain plays which he looks like he would excel at most.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

you don't fire whipple after one year. i'd like to see what he can do after he gets his qb in there or at least another one.. maybe after year two you think about it but that will still be pickett so again, you wait to see what he can do with another qb then re-address this..

way too knee jerk reaction to fire him at this point..

 

[Brokklee]

Should also go after Evan Simon from Manheim Central . Big arm can also run. Proven winner. Committed to Rutgers but that was before ash was fired

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

I didn’t like the way PN excluded Beville from those earlier conversation about potential backups to Kenny. The kid obviously thought he had a shot to play, and Narduzzi didn’t even mention him as possible option in his comments to the press.

I completely get that Beville must earn his way onto the field, but sometimes I wonder if the coaches are so focused on the current starter that back ups with legit talent are a little neglected.

I could be wrong, but I don’t see either of the two QBs ahead of Beville having a particularly high ceiling. Beville may still be learning the playbook or even making mistakes in practice, but it’s not like the staring QB is playing lights out.

If Beville has shown real potential of being the heir apparent, then PN and Whipple need to stop screwing around (with the mentality that PK is 100% their QB next year) and start getting Davis a bit more involved in the offense to see what he’s got- even if that just means giving him more reps in practice - running certain plays which he looks like he would excel at most.

Ah, criticizing the coach and calling for the true freshman QB that MUST be better than the starter, even though you've never seen him play a single rep in practice let alone a game.

This post is so yinzer that it should have fries on top.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Ah, criticizing the coach and calling for the true freshman QB that MUST be better than the starter, even though you've never seen him play a single rep in practice let alone a game.

This post is so yinzer that it should have fries on top.

So I’m a yinzer for wanting to push to improve the QB situation. That’s funny.

Love it- first time I’ve been called a yinzer. No clue how you took what I said and somehow turned it into a statement a yinzer might say.

There is no mention in my post that the freshmen Beville is better than anyone, just that we haven’t seen or heard much about him since the season began... yet PN hyped him up prior to the season.

As I think you may be aware, the current starter is hardly something special. Maybe he is the currently still the best available, but this program at times has settled on mediocre QB play instead of pushing to have others with potentially higher ceilings prepared to be our there one day - someone who actually may make a significant and positive difference.

Hey, maybe since you seem to be one of those fans who prefers the status quo when it comes to mediocre QB play- it actually makes you the real yinzer.

Just a thought.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

So I’m a yinzer for wanting to push to improve the QB situation. That’s funny.

Love it- first time I’ve been called a yinzer. No clue how you took what I said and somehow turned it into a statement a yinzer might say.

There is no mention in my post that the freshmen Beville is better than anyone, just that we haven’t seen or heard much about him since the season began... yet PN hyped him up prior to the season.

As I think you may be aware, the current starter is hardly something special. Maybe he is the currently still the best available, but this program at times has settled on mediocre QB play instead of pushing to have others with potentially higher ceilings prepared to be our there one day - someone who actually may make a significant and positive difference.

Hey, maybe since you seem to be one of those fans who prefers the status quo when it comes to mediocre QB play- it actually makes you the real yinzer.

Just a thought.

Yinzers always love the backup QB and think he HAS to be better than the current guy. I have no idea if you are one, but the post is yinzer thru and thru.

All kidding aside, this team still has a chance at a decent season, so they need to play the best players. Beville may have a higher ceiling, but the coaches feel Pickett is the best option. Now Narduzzi is caveman conservative on offense, but I am inclined to trust him on this matter, given that Pickett is 3 years in the program vs a freshman. You also might think that Pickett is awful - and he has been at times - but you could see a noticeable drop off when Patti was in there. I'd love to see Beville get his "4 games" but if he was that good in practice I think that we would have already seen it. Remember there was a time when Narduzzi was a moron for not playing Pickett as a true freshman too.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Yinzers always love the backup QB and think he HAS to be better than the current guy. I have no idea if you are one, but the post is yinzer thru and thru.

All kidding aside, this team still has a chance at a decent season, so they need to play the best players. Beville may have a higher ceiling, but the coaches feel Pickett is the best option. Now Narduzzi is caveman conservative on offense, but I am inclined to trust him on this matter, given that Pickett is 3 years in the program vs a freshman. You also might think that Pickett is awful - and he has been at times - but you could see a noticeable drop off when Patti was in there. I'd love to see Beville get his "4 games" but if he was that good in practice I think that we would have already seen it. Remember there was a time when Narduzzi was a moron for not playing Pickett as a true freshman too.

A few things in responses:

PICKETT’S FRESHMAN YEAR
As bad as Pickett has been at times, he was able to prove he was a tad better than either DiNucci or Browne: He is much more mobile than Browne was (who was a statue in the pocket with a painfully slow release) and he could throw better than DiNucci (who couldn’t throw accurately beyond 10 yards).

PATTI VS PICKETT
IMO Patti did not look like a noticeable drop off from Pickett. HIs first time replacing Pickett resulted in an immediate TD in the red zone- and we all know how Pickett has struggled to get TDs in the red zone this season. Patti wasn’t necessarily better than Pickett the entire time he played but the fact that he wasn’t a total bust and seeing how Pickett lead offenses don’t score a ton anyway and often turn the ball over multiple times a game makes one wonder, “ Heck, maybe Beville can play a little better than Pickett or Patti” similar to the way Pickett was able to prove he could play a little better than Brown and DiNucci.

 

[OriginalEther]

Pitt seems to be able to move the ball ok
In half their games, Pitt has gained more yards than their opponent allows (Psu, Ucf, Miami, I’ll assume Delaware, and someone else who escapes me at the moment)

The problem seems to be finishing the job and actually getting the touchdown

Point is, it hasn’t been a great offense by any stretch, but it’s not this hopelessly woeful one that some here have made it out to be

 

[PittFamily2]

Pitt seems to be able to move the ball ok
In half their games, Pitt has gained more yards than their opponent allows (Psu, Ucf, Miami, I’ll assume Delaware, and someone else who escapes me at the moment)

The problem seems to be finishing the job and actually getting the touchdown

Point is, it hasn’t been a great offense by any stretch, but it’s not this hopelessly woeful one that some here have made it out to be

That's why we need a big durable back who can get 4 and 5 yards up the middle when we need it, which forces teams to load up the box, and loosens things up for outside stuff and helps passing game.

PITT's offense is predictable which is bad.
We're predictable because we don't have players needed to be unpredictable.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

All is good except for "I loved the hiring of Whipple."
His UMass team has won, I think 2 games this season.
He didn't build much, he didn't leave them much, he left them a pile of
stuff.
Why cant we find someone, an OC from a league other than a tinker toy league who wants to hang around??

Yeah but he also coached in the NFL, which I have been told is even better than the SEC and almost as good as the Big 10.

 

[cashisking884]

Pitt seems to be able to move the ball ok
In half their games, Pitt has gained more yards than their opponent allows (Psu, Ucf, Miami, I’ll assume Delaware, and someone else who escapes me at the moment)

The problem seems to be finishing the job and actually getting the touchdown

Point is, it hasn’t been a great offense by any stretch, but it’s not this hopelessly woeful one that some here have made it out to be

114th in all of college football.

 

[OriginalEther]

114th in all of college football.

Reread the post
You cited points per game
I’m noting yards per game, where Pitt ranks around 85th, in company with Michigan, Arizona St, and Kansas st

Again, while not great, Pitt can move the ball
We’re not having this discussion if Pitt gains one more yard again Psu and/Miami, or takes advantage of a short field thanks to a Georgia Tech turnover, etc

 

[Somerset Panther]

You might be right. But with this talent (lack of) I’m not sure how much any OC could get out of them.

It’s so damn frustrating when we have a good drive in the second quarter and move down the field and hit SJ Louis for a TD. Damn it they can do it. After that pick we should have gone right for the end zone. Whipple just needs to be aggressive all the time (almost).

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Reread the post
You cited points per game
I’m noting yards per game, where Pitt ranks around 85th, in company with Michigan, Arizona St, and Kansas st

Again, while not great, Pitt can move the ball
We’re not having this discussion if Pitt gains one more yard again Psu and/Miami, or takes advantage of a short field thanks to a Georgia Tech turnover, etc

If only yards won games instead of points - we might have actually won a few more.

 

[cashisking884]

Reread the post
You cited points per game
I’m noting yards per game, where Pitt ranks around 85th, in company with Michigan, Arizona St, and Kansas st

Again, while not great, Pitt can move the ball
We’re not having this discussion if Pitt gains one more yard again Psu and/Miami, or takes advantage of a short field thanks to a Georgia Tech turnover, etc

I cited no such thing.
That’s our S&P+ ranking on offense, which looks at the objective quality of our offense. Factoring a whole bunch of things to come up with that ranking.

 

[chirurgo]

The offensive line is the biggest problem on offense. It doesn’t matter who plays QB, if it isn’t someone who can move out of the pocket, they will get killed. No way you want the true freshman pocket passer in a game no matter his talent level. The line’s protection and run-blocking influences the entire play-calling. Compound that with key drops, what is an OC supposed to do? He’s handcuffed until he can catch a defense off guard in a non-blitzing situation to throw it deep. The line has been outmatched almost every game this season.

 

[joeydavid]

Whipple is an old guy that has been calling plays for a long time.
He’s been worse than I thought he’d be, but is anybody really *that shocked* that the game has probably passed him by? It happens to almost every coach in the history of coaching that stays in the game long enough.

Good times.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Pickett and Whipple deserve a ton of credit for what they’ve accomplished this year.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Whipple is still garbage. I’ll die on that hill. He needs a 5th year qb with 40+ starts to succeed, he’s no good.

Yep I said it.

 

[rmf05]

He's done well. There are flaws and they will likely hurt us moving forward but it's been a fun year. It is no coincidence that Picketts 2 biggest games are both L's and it was similar last year. This O is waaaaaaaaaaay too centered around the QB. It has worked with Pickett against this schedule this year though.

 

[CJsE]

I like how people are digging up posts from Pitt's worst offensive season in 50+ years to try and shame people.