Who would win this game?

[Sean Miller Fan]

Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, Brown

vs

The freshman versions of

Gibbs, Ramon, Wanamaker, Troutman, McGhee

To me, that's even-up. The young guys have a lot of potential and I feel that if our coach's name wasnt Kevin Stallings and we had some unknown up and coming mid-major coach, Pitt fans would be more accepting and more optimistic for the future.

 

[steeltown24]

I think the freshman version of the former players. Gibbs, Ramon and Troutman all contributed early on teams with other options. Brad and Gary were projects who only contributed later on, but the first 3 were much better coming in as Freshmen (possibly with the exception of Carr at the point).

 

[levance2]

Ramon had a 115 ORtg at the end of his freshman year
Gibbs had a 117 ORtg

They were much better freshmen than you are remembering. Wanamaker and McGhee would surely be beaten though.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Ramon had a 115 ORtg at the end of his freshman year
Gibbs had a 117 ORtg

They were much better freshmen than you are remembering. Wanamaker and McGhee would surely be beaten though.

I know they were good. I didn't say they weren't. But I think we have some good young frosh now too.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Ramon had a 115 ORtg at the end of his freshman year
Gibbs had a 117 ORtg

They were much better freshmen than you are remembering. Wanamaker and McGhee would surely be beaten though.

I seem to remember RR as playing some really good minutes as a Frosh and then just being "steady" from that point forward.

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

This year's freshmen are getting more playing time, but Troutman, Ramon, and Gibbs were (in supporting roles) productive players on very good teams. I'd have to give the edge to the former players.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

This year's freshmen are getting more playing time, but Troutman, Ramon, and Gibbs were (in supporting roles) productive players on very good teams. I'd have to give the edge to the former players.

I don't disagree but wouldn't you say a game like that would be very close?

 

[levance2]

I seem to remember RR as playing some really good minutes as a Frosh and then just being "steady" from that point forward.

IIRC he was pretty key in beating that bad Rutgers team for their first BE win in his FR season.

You are correct though that his ORtg as a senior was about the same as a freshman. He kind of bounced around positionally since he played beside both Krauser and Fields in his career. He arguably played out of position in his final season when Fields was injured. He actually performed pretty well as a de facto PG then.

 

[AJSH2P]

Ramon as a freshman:

26.1 min per game
6.8 PPG
1.7 Reb
1.9 Assists
.9 steals
36% from the field
33% from 3
77% from the line

Stewart as a freshman:

20.5 min per game
7.1 PPG
2.5 Reb
.9 assists
.5 steals
36% from the field
34% from 3
81% from the line
(and over the last 3 games, he's averaging over 12 points a game, 4 rebounds, 41% from the field, and 35% from 3)

I think Stewart is going to be better than Ramon, and I don't think that upside is hard to see. Granted, the team situations are different, as Stewart is relied upon for scoring. But I really like this kid.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Balancing everything including defense, absolutely the former freshmen would win this game. The current freshmen are lacking in defensive ability and technique, but I think with proper coaching, they could learn it and become good players. So with this current group, that isn't going to happen.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Balancing everything including defense, absolutely the former freshmen would win this game. The current freshmen are lacking in defensive ability and technique, but I think with proper coaching, they could learn it and become good players. So with this current group, that isn't going to happen.

As freshmen, Davis is far and away the best perimeter defender in this "matchup"

 

[oldharry]

Ramon had a 115 ORtg at the end of his freshman year
Gibbs had a 117 ORtg

They were much better freshmen than you are remembering. Wanamaker and McGhee would surely be beaten though.

He remembers fine. He is still on his endless Dixon sucks rant. He loves Stallings. Afterall last place in the ACC is what SMF loves. His hero hates Pitt and he uses his name Tells it all.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, Brown

vs

The freshman versions of

Gibbs, Ramon, Wanamaker, Troutman, McGhee

To me, that's even-up. The young guys have a lot of potential and I feel that if our coach's name wasnt Kevin Stallings and we had some unknown up and coming mid-major coach, Pitt fans would be more accepting and more optimistic for the future.

Ummmm.....to me, it is an NC. No Contest. I mean I don't think it is debatable. I'll take the Gibbs group.

 

[rockypanther]

Ummmm.....to me, it is an NC. No Contest. I mean I don't think it is debatable. I'll take the Gibbs group.

Troutman was a warrior. Even as a freshman. Nobody on this current team would have been able to even slow him down.

 

[DT_PITT]

Ummmm.....to me, it is an NC. No Contest. I mean I don't think it is debatable. I'll take the Gibbs group.

In my opinion, you are correct and its really not even close.

 

[Ski11585]

Ramon as a freshman:

26.1 min per game
6.8 PPG
1.7 Reb
1.9 Assists
.9 steals
36% from the field
33% from 3
77% from the line

Stewart as a freshman:

20.5 min per game
7.1 PPG
2.5 Reb
.9 assists
.5 steals
36% from the field
34% from 3
81% from the line
(and over the last 3 games, he's averaging over 12 points a game, 4 rebounds, 41% from the field, and 35% from 3)

I think Stewart is going to be better than Ramon, and I don't think that upside is hard to see. Granted, the team situations are different, as Stewart is relied upon for scoring. But I really like this kid.

This comparison is rather meaningless at the moment, no? Considering Ramon’s numbers include a full season of BE play to only two ACC games, lets see how Stewart looks at the end of the season.

 

[NTOP]

Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, Brown

vs

The freshman versions of

Gibbs, Ramon, Wanamaker, Troutman, McGhee

To me, that's even-up. The young guys have a lot of potential and I feel that if our coach's name wasnt Kevin Stallings and we had some unknown up and coming mid-major coach, Pitt fans would be more accepting and more optimistic for the future.

That is simply ridiculous. No offense to our current kids, but NONE of them would start over the 5 you mentioned.

 

[AJSH2P]

This comparison is rather meaningless at the moment, no? Considering Ramon’s numbers include a full season of BE play to only two ACC games, lets see how Stewart looks at the end of the season.

Funny you say that, because two of Stewart's best games so far have been against ACC competition.

 

[NTOP]

Ramon as a freshman:

26.1 min per game
6.8 PPG
1.7 Reb
1.9 Assists
.9 steals
36% from the field
33% from 3
77% from the line

Stewart as a freshman:

20.5 min per game
7.1 PPG
2.5 Reb
.9 assists
.5 steals
36% from the field
34% from 3
81% from the line
(and over the last 3 games, he's averaging over 12 points a game, 4 rebounds, 41% from the field, and 35% from 3)

I think Stewart is going to be better than Ramon, and I don't think that upside is hard to see. Granted, the team situations are different, as Stewart is relied upon for scoring. But I really like this kid.

You're using bad numbers....let's see how Stewart does over the next 16 games. Ramon's stats arefull season on a powerful team.

 

[AJSH2P]

Your using bad numbers....let's see how Stewart does over the next 16 games. Ramon's stats arefull season on a powerful team.

What do you mean bad numbers? 2 of Stewart's best games this season have been the last 2 against ACC comp.

 

[Ski11585]

Funny you say that, because two of Stewart's best games so far have been against ACC competition.

And that's great. Let's see how they look at the end of the season.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

I loathe these hypothetical questions that utilize asynchronous data points to solicit conclusive imaginary results.

I know, I know...it's just message board fodder...

 

[Fsgolfdr]

How good would the current freshman be on a team of veteran players ? When any of the former Panthers were inserted into games they were surrounded by better more experienced veteran players and then they only saw limited minutes . The second they struggled or made freshman mistakes they were back on the bench . None of them have drawn the attention of opponents like Carr is . An other area where the current group is disadvantaged is in practice , going up against better players daily helps in developing their skills . The current freshman make up the best group by far since Young and Artis and as a collective group I think we’ll look back in two yrs and say these guys helped turn the program around .

 

[DT_PITT]

I loathe these hypothetical questions that utilize asynchronous data points to solicit conclusive imaginary results.

I know, I know...it's just message board fodder...

I loathe them to but I got sucked in as well.

 

[PittMBA]

Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, Brown

vs

The freshman versions of

Gibbs, Ramon, Wanamaker, Troutman, McGhee

To me, that's even-up. The young guys have a lot of potential and I feel that if our coach's name wasnt Kevin Stallings and we had some unknown up and coming mid-major coach, Pitt fans would be more accepting and more optimistic for the future.

The freshmen versions of Gibbs, et al played as freshmen alongside some of the best players in Pitt history. It’s tough to compare their performance to the current group— Gibbs and Wannamaker etc. had Blair and Young on their front court and Fields next to them.

A better comparison might be Knight, Zavackas, Page, Brown , as freshmen. Knight and Z played as freshmen on a really bad team. Page and Brown had the benefit of much improved team by seasons end with an outstanding senior in Greer.

The jury was very much out on Howland, Knight , Z etc. after their freshmen season as that team struggled badly at times.

 

[Pete108K11]

I loathe them to but I got sucked in as well.

The stats help to isolate freshman performance from career performance, but really with Wanny and McGee it is not be too hard.

Carr would blow past Gibbs and immediately get two fouls on McGee before the first TV timeout and Jamie would then sit him. Ramon and Stewart are a draw. Davis and Wanny would be a draw in point total but Davis would cause 4 turnovers. Troutman would out rebound Stevenson and the entire 2018 squad. Stevenson would score some but not as much as the garbage buckets the Chevy would get. Then it comes down to Brown against whoever backs up McGee. That is how I see it

 

[gary2]

Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, Brown

vs

The freshman versions of

Gibbs, Ramon, Wanamaker, Troutman, McGhee

To me, that's even-up. The young guys have a lot of potential and I feel that if our coach's name wasnt Kevin Stallings and we had some unknown up and coming mid-major coach, Pitt fans would be more accepting and more optimistic for the future.

The Gibbs team would win easily - Much more physical - the 2 guards are more consistent shooters

 

[gary2]

Ramon as a freshman:

26.1 min per game
6.8 PPG
1.7 Reb
1.9 Assists
.9 steals
36% from the field
33% from 3
77% from the line

Stewart as a freshman:

20.5 min per game
7.1 PPG
2.5 Reb
.9 assists
.5 steals
36% from the field
34% from 3
81% from the line
(and over the last 3 games, he's averaging over 12 points a game, 4 rebounds, 41% from the field, and 35% from 3)

I think Stewart is going to be better than Ramon, and I don't think that upside is hard to see. Granted, the team situations are different, as Stewart is relied upon for scoring. But I really like this kid.

I really like Stewart too. I expect to see him handling the ball more as the season goes on.
I expect to see him taking more twos as well.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Ramon as a freshman:

26.1 min per game
6.8 PPG
1.7 Reb
1.9 Assists
.9 steals
36% from the field
33% from 3
77% from the line

Stewart as a freshman:

20.5 min per game
7.1 PPG
2.5 Reb
.9 assists
.5 steals
36% from the field
34% from 3
81% from the line
(and over the last 3 games, he's averaging over 12 points a game, 4 rebounds, 41% from the field, and 35% from 3)

I think Stewart is going to be better than Ramon, and I don't think that upside is hard to see. Granted, the team situations are different, as Stewart is relied upon for scoring. But I really like this kid.

I really like Stewart too. I expect to see him handling the ball more as the season goes on.
I expect to see him taking more twos as well.

I have always liked Stewart. I don't know why people have been so hard on him. He's a pure shooter who is tall enough to get his shot off. Really, not too different than Cam Johnson, who redshirted a year remember, at this point.

 

[PantherO]

I will state the obvious answer....The team with the most points.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Troutman was a warrior. Even as a freshman. Nobody on this current team would have been able to even slow him down.

I think the real question would be how long would it take before someone other than Chevy was able to get a rebound?

 

[gary2]

I think the real question would be how long would it take before someone other than Chevy was able to get a rebound?

A big problem with this Pitt team is physicality and strength. Luther gives you some, Stevenson too, but that is it.

Golden will bring some next season and Ellison is stronger than most of our players. (after all, they are freshmen)

Hopefully Brown and Peace get and play stronger.

 

[gary2]

Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, Brown

vs

The freshman versions of

Gibbs, Ramon, Wanamaker, Troutman, McGhee

To me, that's even-up. The young guys have a lot of potential and I feel that if our coach's name wasnt Kevin Stallings and we had some unknown up and coming mid-major coach, Pitt fans would be more accepting and more optimistic for the future.

I would find more interesting a match up of upperclassmen:

Robinson - C,Johnson - Artis - Jeter - Young

versus

The senior versions of

Carr- Stewart - Davis - Stevenson - Brown

Another of those hypotheticals that DT dislikes - The older guys have better recruiting ratings to be sure, but I would be interested in what the new class develops into as seniors. Certainly not as talented, but maybe chemistry can over come that.

The older players surely had their moments, but other than Robinson could be maddeningly inconsistent even as upper classmen.

 

[wbrpanther]

I think the freshman version of the former players. Gibbs, Ramon and Troutman all contributed early on teams with other options. Brad and Gary were projects who only contributed later on, but the first 3 were much better coming in as Freshmen (possibly with the exception of Carr at the point).

Troutman didn't see the floor much for the first part of his freshman season. Gibbs and Ramon had the luxury of playing with much better and more experienced players. This is an interesting question. I'd say the newer guys would win by one point in triple OT.

 

[wbrpanther]

I would find more interesting a match up of upperclassmen:

Robinson - C,Johnson - Artis - Jeter - Young

versus

The senior versions of

Carr- Stewart - Davis - Stevenson - Brown

Another of those hypotheticals that DT dislikes - The older guys have better recruiting ratings to be sure, but I would be interested in what the new class develops into as seniors. Certainly not as talented, but maybe chemistry can over come that.

I we only knew what the senior versions of Carr- Stewart- Davis-Stevenson-Brown is going to look like there would be much less [or more] angst on this board.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Troutman was a warrior. Even as a freshman. Nobody on this current team would have been able to even slow him down.

I think the real question would be how long would it take before someone other than Chevy was able to get a rebound?

And that is why I take that group. As much as I like Stevenson, he's an average rebounder at best. Maybe below average. And Brown is almost as bad a rebounder as a 6'10 center can be.

But I dont think the overall teams are that far apart. Maybe a 5 point game.

 

[gary2]

I we only knew what the senior versions of Carr- Stewart- Davis-Stevenson-Brown is going to look like there would be much less [or more] angst on this board.

You got that right

 

[WillFerrell]

in a hypothetical 7 game series, Gibbs and Co would win 4-0 or 4-1. I know this for a fact.

 

[NTOP]

What do you mean bad numbers? 2 of Stewart's best games this season have been the last 2 against ACC comp.

He hasn't run through the ACC gauntlet. He may never be in another close game this year. Ramon played pretty well for 4 years. In the toughest conference back then. Not many losses by big numbers where stats are padded.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And Brown is almost as bad a rebounder as a 6'10 center can be.

Brown against the freshman version of McGhee would be an epic battle of ineptitude.