Why Pitt's Defense is so bad - Goes back to PC's recruiting

[tylersmyth]

Have to go back to the 2012 class to 2014 these kids would be RS Sophomores to RS Seniors on the 2016 team.

3 Recruiting classes on Defense - Look at the names are any of them NFL draft picks?

Majority of them are no longer here or they were average or below at their position

Moral of story give Narduzzi time for his recruits to develop and play and the results will change, with the players below not surprised how bad the defense is - PC was an offensive mind and his recruiting showed & so did the results in 2016. Hopefully Duzz recruits the offensive end well so it doesn't do in reverse for the future.

DB:
Trenton Coles (2012)
Jahmahl Padner (2012)
Ryan Lewis (2012)
Terrish Webb (2013)
Titus Howard (2013)
Jalen Williams (2014)
Philipie Motley (2014)
Dennis Briggs (2014)
Patrick Amara (2014)
Avonte Maddox (2014)

LB:
Devon Porchia (2012)
Mike Capara (2012)
Deaysean Rippy (2012)
Matt Galambos (2013)
Quinton Wirginis (2014)
Jamal Davis (2014)

DT:
Terrell Jackson (2012)
Tyrique Jarrett (2013)
Jeremiah Telani (2013)
Shakir Soto (2013)
Luke Maclean (2013)
Justin Moody (2013)
James Folston Jr. (2014)
Mike Herndon (2014)
Connor Dinitino (2014)
Shane Roy (2014)
Rori Blair (2014)
Hez Trahan (2014)

 

[Gregory25]

Yes. But to be fair. Look at the OLinemen he brought in. IMO, this is a sub .500 team the past 2 seasons without this Oline

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

This problem predates Chryst's arrival and speaks directly to a much bigger problem than one person or one coaching staff.

 

[thebadby2]

This problem predates Chryst's arrival and speaks directly to a much bigger problem than one person or one coaching staff.

Doc-i don't completely disagree with you, but at the same time there is no denying that recruiting the defensive side of the ball under the Chryst regime was woeful, more so than at any time since Majors 2. Most of the players he brought in were borderline D1 players. Look at that list the OP posted. If you look at the offer sheets on the majority of those players, we were fighting off mid-majors or low level P5s for them. Price is excellent, likely a NFL player but he was a Graham recruit. Not one of those players on that list will be drafted. Wanny and Walt did plenty better than that.

Personnel wise we had a really weak defense, and it showed. The cupboard was left bare, as it was at QB and WR.

On paper (by offer sheets), Duzzi is definitely off to a much better start than what we were seeing out of PC on the defensive side. Offensively Dooz is doing about the same.

Obviously we have to see how it all plays out, but I fully expect that defense to be WAY better in 2018 than it was last year or this year.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Oh, there's no doubt about it. We we recruited horribly under Paul Chryst - particularly on the defensive side of the ball, and especially for this scheme, which seems to highlight every player on the field's lack of athleticism.

However, the broader point is a way bigger problem and that is we've had WAAAAAAAAAAY too much turnover throughout the program and Chryst was a victim of that as much as he was a perpetrator of it.

Why start at Chryst?

Aside from Ike Bennett, did ANY of Graham's recruits stay for more than a year? I honestly can't even remember. If it was more than one or two people I would be surprised.

Would it have helped us if they had stayed? Of course it would've helped. College programs can't afford to surrender entire recording classes. I suspect it would've given us some badly needed added depth if nothing else.

We know that the entire recruiting class in Wannstedt's last year all left or never even made it to Pitt in the first place. That means that we essentially surrendered TWO entire recruiting classes in a 24 month span.

Can we talk about that? Because I rarely see people talking about it and that is very curious to me because it destroyed our program worse than Penn State's NCAA imposed sanctions hurt their program and for the past few years that is all those folks could talk about.

This is not meant to indemnify or excuse anyone. They own part of this as well. However, to focus on one person whenever the problem clearly is much greater than him just feels insufficient to the point of dishonesty.

It feels like wanting to talk about the Titanic disaster but only focusing on the lifeboat fiasco. There were many, many problems, not just the lack of quality life boats.

 

[Jakey_John]

DVY is right. It all started when Wanny told his guys to go elsewhere when he was canned. Graham didn't really actively recruit anyone because he had one foot out the door the whole time he was here.

 

[Swervin27]

dvy's points are fine but have nothing to do with the topic. The OP said why the defense was so poor this year.. Wanny's recruiting classes had nothing to do with this year's defense, nor did Grahams.. coaching attrition has hurt us, no one is arguing that and it's been brought up several times..

The point remains, we could have had a memorable year with even average defensive recruiting..

 

[Jakey_John]

Right, and to that point we haven't had decent defensive recruiting in six years. Chryst rightfully gets the brunt of the blame but it's not as if defensive recruiting was at its zenith prior to his arrival.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Luckily Chryst at least left a solid O Line and RBs. Can you imagine where we'd be without Conner and our NFL caliber linemen? But yes, the cupboard was pretty bad and Narduzzi deserves at least a solid four years before we can truly call this his team.

 

[OhioPittFan]

Chryst recruited Oline really well, but beyond that he was not very good or better than most Pitt coaches. He did bring in good RBs too, but we've almost always recruited well at that position and so far have done well under Narduzzi.

As good as the OL recruiting was, I'd take a more balanced recruiting effort overall than just bringing in a 4 star caliber OLine class and everything else being borderline 2/3 star talent.

 

[oldpantherfan]

Have to go back to the 2012 class to 2014 these kids would be RS Sophomores to RS Seniors on the 2016 team.

3 Recruiting classes on Defense - Look at the names are any of them NFL draft picks?

Majority of them are no longer here or they were average or below at their position

Moral of story give Narduzzi time for his recruits to develop and play and the results will change, with the players below not surprised how bad the defense is - PC was an offensive mind and his recruiting showed & so did the results in 2016. Hopefully Duzz recruits the offensive end well so it doesn't do in reverse for the future.

DB:
Trenton Coles (2012)
Jahmahl Padner (2012)
Ryan Lewis (2012)
Terrish Webb (2013)
Titus Howard (2013)
Jalen Williams (2014)
Philipie Motley (2014)
Dennis Briggs (2014)
Patrick Amara (2014)
Avonte Maddox (2014)

LB:
Devon Porchia (2012)
Mike Capara (2012)
Deaysean Rippy (2012)
Matt Galambos (2013)
Quinton Wirginis (2014)
Jamal Davis (2014)

DT:
Terrell Jackson (2012)
Tyrique Jarrett (2013)
Jeremiah Telani (2013)
Shakir Soto (2013)
Luke Maclean (2013)
Justin Moody (2013)
James Folston Jr. (2014)
Mike Herndon (2014)
Connor Dinitino (2014)
Shane Roy (2014)
Rori Blair (2014)
Hez Trahan (2014)

Lewis has been invited to college all star game and that usually predates a combine invite and possibily getting drafted.
Jarrett and soto will be in the NFL either as draft picks or free agents. And Maddox's maybe is well.
You can't talk about guys like folston because they haven't really played.
Quit with all the negative be. Chryst was an offensive coach.
Besides everyone going to bama doesn't get drafted either.

 

[Swervin27]

Lewis has been invited to college all star game and that usually predates a combine invite and possibily getting drafted.
Jarrett and soto will be in the NFL either as draft picks or free agents. And Maddox's maybe is well.
You can't talk about guys like folston because they haven't really played.
Quit with all the negative be. Chryst was an offensive coach.
Besides everyone going to bama doesn't get drafted either.

If Lewis plays one down in the NFL I swear on my life I will never watch another NFL game as long as I live.

 

[Musikprince]

Lewis has been invited to college all star game and that usually predates a combine invite and possibily getting drafted.
Jarrett and soto will be in the NFL either as draft picks or free agents. And Maddox's maybe is well.
You can't talk about guys like folston because they haven't really played.
Quit with all the negative be. Chryst was an offensive coach.
Besides everyone going to bama doesn't get drafted either.

I don't know what to make of this post. There's some truth to it but it's also borderline asinine and quite laughable!

 

[thebadby2]

Oh, there's no doubt about it. We we recruited horribly under Paul Chryst - particularly on the defensive side of the ball, and especially for this scheme, which seems to highlight every player on the field's lack of athleticism.

However, the broader point is a way bigger problem and that is we've had WAAAAAAAAAAY too much turnover throughout the program and Chryst was a victim of that as much as he was a perpetrator of it.

Why start at Chryst?

Aside from Ike Bennett, did ANY of Graham's recruits stay for more than a year? I honestly can't even remember. If it was more than one or two people I would be surprised.

Would it have helped us if they had stayed? Of course it would've helped. College programs can't afford to surrender entire recording classes. I suspect it would've given us some badly needed added depth if nothing else.

We know that the entire recruiting class in Wannstedt's last year all left or never even made it to Pitt in the first place. That means that we essentially surrendered TWO entire recruiting classes in a 24 month span.

Can we talk about that? Because I rarely see people talking about it and that is very curious to me because it destroyed our program worse than Penn State's NCAA imposed sanctions hurt their program and for the past few years that is all those folks could talk about.

This is not meant to indemnify or excuse anyone. They own part of this as well. However, to focus on one person whenever the problem clearly is much greater than him just feels insufficient to the point of dishonesty.

It feels like wanting to talk about the Titanic disaster but only focusing on the lifeboat fiasco. There were many, many problems, not just the lack of quality life boats.

Lewis has been invited to college all star game and that usually predates a combine invite and possibily getting drafted.
Jarrett and soto will be in the NFL either as draft picks or free agents. And Maddox's maybe is well.
You can't talk about guys like folston because they haven't really played.
Quit with all the negative be. Chryst was an offensive coach.
Besides everyone going to bama doesn't get drafted either.

none of the guys you just mentioned will be drafted. Jarrett or Soto could make the league or developmental as FAs. Maddox and Lewis-you gotta be kidding me.

 

[vegasgreed]

This board loves to go back and blame the previous coach. When PN eventually decides to leave this board will blame him for something...

 

[chethejet]

HCPC didn't recruit a defensive recruit rated higher than 3 stars. HCPC left for Wisky as he knew the sh** would hit the fan in year 4. Hired House as DC as he knew it didn't really matter. He would have been fired after year 4 with a 6 win season. And that is being kind with Chad at QB.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

This board loves to go back and blame the previous coach. When PN eventually decides to leave this board will blame him for something...

I blame four coaches in five seasons, and the assclown who caused it.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I blame four coaches in five seasons, and the assclown who caused it.

Of course. That's the real answer here. For some reason many of our fans refuse to accept that reality but it's very obviously THE primary problem.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

Of course. That's the real answer here. For some reason many of our fans refuse to accept that reality but it's very obviously THE primary problem.

Exactly right. But of course once Narduzzi has enough years to finally fix the problems our fans will be calling for him to be fired. So we can start the whole self defeating process all over again.

We've already got some fans starting to clamor for it.

It's what Pitt fans do.

 

[thebadby2]

This board loves to go back and blame the previous coach. When PN eventually decides to leave this board will blame him for something...

Vegas-look at that list of defensive signees under PC. Then look at their offer sheets. Then look at our defensive performance this year. 1 + 1 =2. Whatever you want to blame that on, you can't get it past the fact that Chryst failed to recruit adequate defensive personnel and we paid for that this year.

 

[vegasgreed]

I'm in no way defending PC's defensive recruiting. It was bad. Brutal. The other day you mentioned PN's offensive recruiting was the same as PC, that is false. PC had Boyd, JC, DJ, Holtz and the rest of that OL. Not positive if Bis was a PC recruit, I think he was. All those guys were basically playing right away and providing big production. Your turn. Name PN's big time offensive recruits that have produced like the names I mentioned. You can't cause it didn't happen.

One thing your not bringing up and it's a huge deal. PN has FAR MORE support from his bosses than PC did. PC's budget was absolutely brutal.

Comparing when PC took over vs when PN took over......PC had a worse situation. When PC took over there was NOTHING in the cupboard from Fraud.

At the end of the day, it's possible in the near future that our offensive recruiting will not be the best....a downgrade from our defensive recruiting.

Our offense saved our season this year. We hired a defensive coach and our defense was a complete disaster this year. Worse this year, compared to our first year and we had many starters coming back.

Trust me when I say this. For whatever reason, if PN left soon(hope it doesn't happen), this board would turn on him also. I've been on this board for 13+ years, I've seen it happen.

 

[bobfree]

Have to go back to the 2012 class to 2014 these kids would be RS Sophomores to RS Seniors on the 2016 team.

3 Recruiting classes on Defense - Look at the names are any of them NFL draft picks?

Majority of them are no longer here or they were average or below at their position

Moral of story give Narduzzi time for his recruits to develop and play and the results will change, with the players below not surprised how bad the defense is - PC was an offensive mind and his recruiting showed & so did the results in 2016. Hopefully Duzz recruits the offensive end well so it doesn't do in reverse for the future.

DB:
Trenton Coles (2012)
Jahmahl Padner (2012)
Ryan Lewis (2012)
Terrish Webb (2013)
Titus Howard (2013)
Jalen Williams (2014)
Philipie Motley (2014)
Dennis Briggs (2014)
Patrick Amara (2014)
Avonte Maddox (2014)

LB:
Devon Porchia (2012)
Mike Capara (2012)
Deaysean Rippy (2012)
Matt Galambos (2013)
Quinton Wirginis (2014)
Jamal Davis (2014)

DT:
Terrell Jackson (2012)
Tyrique Jarrett (2013)
Jeremiah Telani (2013)
Shakir Soto (2013)
Luke Maclean (2013)
Justin Moody (2013)
James Folston Jr. (2014)
Mike Herndon (2014)
Connor Dinitino (2014)
Shane Roy (2014)
Rori Blair (2014)
Hez Trahan (2014)

That is weak...but I bet it isn't as weak as wmu, temple, or Boston college.

Even Colorado or Wisconsin is similar.

There is a scheme problem here as well.

And it won't be MUCH better next season.

 

[bobfree]

If Lewis plays one down in the NFL I swear on my life I will never watch another NFL game as long as I live.

Go back and watch the games. Lewis had good/great coverage all year but zero ball skills

That is weak...but I bet it isn't as weak as wmu, temple, or Boston college.

Even Colorado or Wisconsin is similar.

There is a scheme problem here as well.

And it won't be MUCH better next season.

Edit. I think he needs to shakeup the staff a tad bit and would like to see Scott Shaffer and a new db coach

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Of course. That's the real answer here. For some reason many of our fans refuse to accept that reality but it's very obviously THE primary problem.

Self Pedersanctions.

 

[SVPanther]

Wrong. Facts matter. Pitt finished this year 8th nationally against the run and 8th in sacks. Using your reasoning, Chryst deserves props for such a dominating performance against the run and sacks!

Of course, that woul be erroneous as your conclusion.

What the foregoing stats prove is this: PN put in a scheme (9 men in the box) to shut down the run at the expense of the pass. Period. I don't know that Darrell Revis would have done any better than Maddox et al in this scheme.

By they way, PN's scheme seems to run counter to the trend in college (and pro) football. That is, it's increasingly a passing game. Is PN's scheme viable as the trend continues? Who knows. But interesting to ponder.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

dvy's points are fine but have nothing to do with the topic. The OP said why the defense was so poor this year.. Wanny's recruiting classes had nothing to do with this year's defense, nor did Grahams.. coaching attrition has hurt us, no one is arguing that and it's been brought up several times..

The point remains, we could have had a memorable year with even average defensive recruiting..

Say what now? That's ridiculous. Of course Todd Graham's lost recruiting class has everything to do with our defensive struggles this year. They would've been fifth year seniors – the backbone of your football team.

 

[thebadby2]

I'm in no way defending PC's defensive recruiting. It was bad. Brutal. The other day you mentioned PN's offensive recruiting was the same as PC, that is false. PC had Boyd, JC, DJ, Holtz and the rest of that OL. Not positive if Bis was a PC recruit, I think he was. All those guys were basically playing right away and providing big production. Your turn. Name PN's big time offensive recruits that have produced like the names I mentioned. You can't cause it didn't happen.

One thing your not bringing up and it's a huge deal. PN has FAR MORE support from his bosses than PC did. PC's budget was absolutely brutal.

Comparing when PC took over vs when PN took over......PC had a worse situation. When PC took over there was NOTHING in the cupboard from Fraud.

At the end of the day, it's possible in the near future that our offensive recruiting will not be the best....a downgrade from our defensive recruiting.

Our offense saved our season this year. We hired a defensive coach and our defense was a complete disaster this year. Worse this year, compared to our first year and we had many starters coming back.

Trust me when I say this. For whatever reason, if PN left soon(hope it doesn't happen), this board would turn on him also. I've been on this board for 13+ years, I've seen it happen.

I'm not disagreeing with much of what you're saying- but let's tell it like it is here-DJ and Holtz were PSU bound until the sanctions were imminent. Conner was a find as a lightly recruited RB. Bis was a September Graham verbal who stuck with PC, as were Shell and Voytik. Boyd was a great get by PC.

Chryst did a nice job of loading up the O line and the RBs. He brought in Boyd. Beyond that, his 3 recruiting classes were severely deficient. You seem to think he had a bunch of his freshmen running around and producing from day 1. Not true. Holtz started as a freshman because we had no TEs and he wasn't physically ready.. DJ started 3 games at the end of his freshman year due to a rash of OL injuries. He would have redshifted like Biz did if not for the injuries. Boyd started. Jaymar got some reps. Are you really criticizing Narduzzi's recruiting because he hasn't put a bunch of true freshmen from his first and only class on the field in starting roles?