Womens’ Basketball

[mike412]

They are in the process of getting trounced in their 4th straight ACC game. Admittedly, the schedule has been brutal, playing 4 straight ranked ACC teams, but they haven’t managed to keep a single game close for even the 1st quarter.

I don’t know much about basketball Xs and Os, but it seems to me that they play almost pickup game style basketball. There is very little evidence of coaching. They don’t seem to have any half court offense. Their scores come mainly on fast breaks or out of 1 on 1 play. They turn the ball over a lot because they don’t seem to know where to pass when they can’t get their shot off.

The defense seems to be all woman to woman, without help, switches or anything else that might be the result of coaching.

It seems to me that they have pretty good depth — a number of athletic players. One or two players seem to have good offensive numbers every game, but the names change from game to game.

Clearly, White seems to have recruited some talent, so I don’t think that is the major issue. They still are relatively young, but there doesn’t seem to be much improvement from game to game.

So my question is: can he coach? I don’t see evidence for an affirmative answer, but again analyzing the nuances of basketball is not something I have any proficiency doing.

 

[Parkview57]

Sounds like he is due for a contract extension.

 

[Dukesfan1]

At this point it’s either he has not recruited talent or he can not coach. It’s that simple.

Three years ago GT, BC, Pitt and NC were all on the bottom of the ACC standings. GT and NC are now ranked. BC is greatly improved. Pitt is not. The schedule has been hard but they have totally underwhelmed.

The interesting game will be BC. They were a bottom feeder with Pitt last year. If they get blown out against BC I think you have to look at the coaching staff.

 

[Chescat]

At this point it’s either he has not recruited talent or he can not coach. It’s that simple.

Three years ago GT, BC, Pitt and NC were all on the bottom of the ACC standings. GT and NC are now ranked. BC is greatly improved. Pitt is not. The schedule has been hard but they have totally underwhelmed.

The interesting game will be BC. They were a bottom feeder with Pitt last year. If they get blown out against BC I think you have to look at the coaching staff.

First things first, I do
believe he's recruited
better talent than what
he inherited. However
it still is not equivalent
to these four ACC teams
that we've lost to. That
doesn't mean that we
should be getting blown
out the way we have been.

To me its pretty simple,
he's installed too fast of a
pace on the offensive end
that results in an outta
control style. Our players
do not have the skill level
to do this. Game after game
we see the same reults with
little or no improvement.
When you have this difference
in talent, you dont increase
the speed. You slow it down,
take the air out of the ball so
to speak, and work for good
shots. By speeding it up, all
you're doing is giving the
other team more scoring
opportunities.

Coaching? The same thing with
no discernable improvement,
game after game is IMO poor
coaching. I feel he's in over his
head.

 

[Chescat]

They are in the process of getting trounced in their 4th straight ACC game. Admittedly, the schedule has been brutal, playing 4 straight ranked ACC teams, but they haven’t managed to keep a single game close for even the 1st quarter.

I don’t know much about basketball Xs and Os, but it seems to me that they play almost pickup game style basketball. There is very little evidence of coaching. They don’t seem to have any half court offense. Their scores come mainly on fast breaks or out of 1 on 1 play. They turn the ball over a lot because they don’t seem to know where to pass when they can’t get their shot off.

The defense seems to be all woman to woman, without help, switches or anything else that might be the result of coaching.

It seems to me that they have pretty good depth — a number of athletic players. One or two players seem to have good offensive numbers every game, but the names change from game to game.

Clearly, White seems to have recruited some talent, so I don’t think that is the major issue. They still are relatively young, but there doesn’t seem to be much improvement from game to game.

So my question is: can he coach? I don’t see evidence for an affirmative answer, but again analyzing the nuances of basketball is not something I have any proficiency doing.

For someone who claims to
not "know much aout Bball
X's and Os," you gave IMO
an excellent overview of
what ails this team/program.

I gotta kid you though, when
you mentioned defense and
called it "women to women"
LOL. It's ok to say "man to
man." In fact even the women
players and coaches refer to
it as "man to man."

 

[MajorMajors]

Mike412 summed it up well in his OP. Coach keeps playing 12 or 13 players. Seems like when someone does well they move up in the order but then don’t sustain the good play. Someone else comes in and shows some flashes. And the cycle repeats.

I think he should play Strother and Tu and let Hayford sit for a few games. Play Clesca more. Dunn has been a disappointment - play Cynthia more.

Shorten the bench a bit. Three-point shooters need some attempts to hone their shot, but with all the subbing, no one but Everett gets a chance for their shooting to warm up…

Strange, but it seems like too many players at the same skill level has been a detriment….but what do I know…

Go Pitt.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

hree-point shooters need some attempts to hone their shot, but with all the subbing, no one but Everett gets a chance for their shooting to warm up…

And Everett didn't play tonight, after hardly playing at all last Sunday. I don't know what's up with that.

And yet they still played 12 players tonight, all of whom played at least 8 minutes. And the player who only played 8 minutes (Dunn) actually started tonight. Everyone else played between 11 and 24.

He's got to figure out who the 8 or 9 players that he's going to count on are, and then stop playing a couple of the others.

 

[Chescat]

Mike412 summed it up well in his OP. Coach keeps playing 12 or 13 players. Seems like when someone does well they move up in the order but then don’t sustain the good play. Someone else comes in and shows some flashes. And the cycle repeats.

I think he should play Strother and Tu and let Hayford sit for a few games. Play Clesca more. Dunn has been a disappointment - play Cynthia more.

Shorten the bench a bit. Three-point shooters need some attempts to hone their shot, but with all the subbing, no one but Everett gets a chance for their shooting to warm up…

Strange, but it seems like too many players at the same skill level has been a detriment….but what do I know…

Go Pitt.

I agree totally with how
you view what's going on
with this team. Very few
teams in Bball have a
multi player rotation as
does White.
It's usually a set number
of the same players...7
or 8, maybe 9. He has
no problem mixing his
players in different
combinations. It's hard
to maintain any cohesion
and consistency when you
do this.

The "skill level" is somewhat
similar as you pointed out.
That doesn't have to be a
"detriment." Unfortunately
the constant mixing and
matching makes it a detriment.

 

[Chescat]

He's got to figure out who the 8 or 9 players that he's going to count on are, and then stop playing a couple of the others.

I read that right after
I posted the same about
player useage and
rotation.

 

[Dukesfan1]

And Everett didn't play tonight, after hardly playing at all last Sunday. I don't know what's up with that.

And yet they still played 12 players tonight, all of whom played at least 8 minutes. And the player who only played 8 minutes (Dunn) actually started tonight. Everyone else played between 11 and 24.

He's got to figure out who the 8 or 9 players that he's going to count on are, and then stop playing a couple of the others.

The announcers said Everett not playing was a coaches decision so there is something amiss.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The announcers said Everett not playing was a coaches decision so there is something amiss.

Yeah, she only played something like 5 minutes early in the Louisville game and then sat the rest of the way. I missed the first quarter or so of that game before I started watching, so I didn't see if there was something that happened on the court or during the game that caused it.

 

[Black Panther]

Last nights game was maybe the worst performance of the year yet.

 

[Chescat]

Last nights game was maybe the worst performance of the year yet.

All four ACC games proably
fit that desription. just like
the GT game, last night we
made the final score seem
respectable because we
scored in the fourth qtr.
against their subs. BC
executed on offense, whereas
we didn't. I thought we were
a little more in control, but we
still had 23 TO's.

BC improves every year. They
have talent, but they're also
well coached. We have TO's
that are self induced, not
because of any great defense.
This doesn't improve and I
see it as coaching. Once
again, we have no set player
rotation. This mix and match
thirteen player rotation does
not work

Suggestion, start Clesca on the
point, have Harris in the back
court with Everrett, Brown
and Igokwe inside. Sub with
King, Strothers, Ezeja. Mary
Johnson is not an ACC big,
she and the others get mop
up duty. Just my two cents.

 

[Dukesfan1]

I thought BC would be a bellwether for the remainder of the season. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Chescat]

I thought BC would be a bell weather for the remainder of the season. I hope I’m wrong.

Bellweather...it would depend
on the level of remaining
teams. We've already played
three top ACC teams and an
upper mid level (BC) team.
Those games are IMO, good
indicators of where we are
in this league. There are a
few other winless teams.
We could win a few of those.
We're in the basement with
those few teams....Clemson,
Virginia, Miami.

To me it's important that
this coach shows that his
players and their in game
performance shows some,
ANY improvement. So far
I haven't seen it.

 

[Dukesfan1]

I guess I used bellwether with BC Because they were 2-11 last year and finished last in the ACC.

I respect your opinion and agree with you except trading wins with the other bottom feeders isn’t any improvement. That is all they have done in the White era.

 

[Chescat]

I guess I used bellwether with BC Because they were 2-11 last year and finished last in the ACC.

I respect your opinion and agree with you except trading wins with the other bottom feeders isn’t any improvement. That is all they have done in the White era.

Good point about "trading
wins wth the other bottom
feeders."

 

[tps48]

They are in the process of getting trounced in their 4th straight ACC game. Admittedly, the schedule has been brutal, playing 4 straight ranked ACC teams, but they haven’t managed to keep a single game close for even the 1st quarter.

I don’t know much about basketball Xs and Os, but it seems to me that they play almost pickup game style basketball. There is very little evidence of coaching. They don’t seem to have any half court offense. Their scores come mainly on fast breaks or out of 1 on 1 play. They turn the ball over a lot because they don’t seem to know where to pass when they can’t get their shot off.

The defense seems to be all woman to woman, without help, switches or anything else that might be the result of coaching.

It seems to me that they have pretty good depth — a number of athletic players. One or two players seem to have good offensive numbers every game, but the names change from game to game.

Clearly, White seems to have recruited some talent, so I don’t think that is the major issue. They still are relatively young, but there doesn’t seem to be much improvement from game to game.

So my question is: can he coach? I don’t see evidence for an affirmative answer, but again analyzing the nuances of basketball is not something I have any proficiency doing.

Coach needs to improve point guard play and reduce turnovers. Ball handling on this team is woeful. That said, the WBB program seems to be getting better. The MBB program is in the dumpster.

 

[Chescat]

Coach needs to improve point guard play and reduce turnovers. Ball handling on this team is woeful. That said, the WBB program seems to be getting better. The MBB program is in the dumpster.

As far as" getting better," I
agree that's true of the
talent level. The on court
performance is awful. We
are making the same mistakes
now that we were earlier in
the year. You mentione TO's
and that's so true. We had 23
TO's last night. We average
19.6 while opponents are 14.6.
I am seeing no improvement.

As for comparing to the men,
their talent is not good, and
has not improved. Although
not good, they are at least
playing to their talent level.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

As far as" getting better," I
agree that's true of the
talent level.

The problem with the "talent level" is that it's pretty clear that way too many of the players are "athletes" rather than "basketball players". Which is why they make so many stupid turnovers. They make passes that a good 8th grade basketball player would never even think to attempt. At times it's as if they simply don't see the players wearing the other color jerseys on the court. There is no amount of coaching that fixes some of the outright stupidity that we see game and game again from some of these players.

Other than putting people on the bench and leaving them there.

 

[Chescat]

The problem with the "talent level" is that it's pretty clear that way too many of the players are "athletes" rather than "basketball players". Which is why they make so many stupid turnovers. They make passes that a good 8th grade basketball player would never even think to attempt. At times it's as if they simply don't see the players wearing the other color jerseys on the court. There is no amount of coaching that fixes some of the outright stupidity that we see game and game again from some of these players.

Other than putting people on the bench and leaving them there.

Yes, good "athletes" rather
than Bball players. I laughed
at your "outright stupidity"
comment....unfortunately it's
true. Maybe coaching won't
fix in game stupidity, but
a more deliberate style of
play offensively would IMO
help. This from a guy (me),
who likes to press and fast
break. Learning how to walk
before you run really applies
here. So many of our TO's
are self induced.

As for pace of play on
the D end, the opposition
averages more steals than we
do, and we are the ones
pressing.

How aout Mary Dunne
Probably a very nice
young woman, but she doesn't
belong on the floor as a big
at this level.

 

[MajorMajors]

I like Coach White, but I’m starting to think he’s putting “the family” and keeping everyone happy ahead of what’s best for the team to succeed.

I say if you think Strother is a good 3-point shooter, let her play and shoot. She clearly has confidence issues that getting 3 or 4 shots a game will not fix. Now last night I think she took several threes. That’s a move in the right direction.

Sit Hayford until she learns to value the ball and good shots more.
Play the best five until they need breathers and put them back in as soon as they are ready.

I was hoping the days of sweating whether we could get to ten points each quarter were over, but clearly they are not…

Go Pitt

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Yes, good "athletes" rather
than Bball players. I laughed
at your "outright stupidity"
comment....unfortunately it's
true. Maybe coaching won't
fix in game stupidity, but
a more deliberate style of
play offensively would IMO
help. This from a guy (me),
who likes to press and fast
break. Learning how to walk
before you run really applies
here. So many of our TO's
are self induced.

The only thing about a more deliberate style of play is that so many of our turnovers have nothing at all to do with pace of play and everything to do with "stupidity". We had at least three or four times last night in the half court where we literally tried to pass the ball to someone when the defender was standing directly in between the player with the ball and the person that they tried to pass the ball to, where basically we just threw the ball right to the defender. We had twice where we had players on the wing cut to the basket and just as the player with the ball threw a pass to them they stopped their cut so the ball just went right out of bounds. We have players putting up their hand and calling for the ball in the half court when they are being well guarded and not even close to being open, and then we try to force a pass to them. We had a couple times in the half court where we just panicked and threw the ball to literally no one except maybe someone sitting at the scorer's table.

I mean yeah, they turn the ball over too much when trying to get out on the break. But they turn the ball over just as much, probably more, in the half court than they do when they are trying to push the pace.

 

[Chescat]

The only thing about a more deliberate style of play is that so many of our turnovers have nothing at all to do with pace of play and everything to do with "stupidity". We had at least three or four times last night in the half court where we literally tried to pass the ball to someone when the defender was standing directly in between the player with the ball and the person that they tried to pass the ball to, where basically we just threw the ball right to the defender. We had twice where we had players on the wing cut to the basket and just as the player with the ball threw a pass to them they stopped their cut so the ball just went right out of bounds. We have players putting up their hand and calling for the ball in the half court when they are being well guarded and not even close to being open, and then we try to force a pass to them. We had a couple times in the half court where we just panicked and threw the ball to literally no one except maybe someone sitting at the scorer's table.

I mean yeah, they turn the ball over too much when trying to get out on the break. But they turn the ball over just as much, probably more, in the half court than they do when they are trying to push the pace.

Well we basically agree. The
pace however is fast pace to
begin with. That in itself is a
problem. My feeling is TEACH
a half court offense with a
basic set, working the ball
looking for a good shot.
Over dribbling, one on one
penetrating, and looking to
pass out of picks are fine
if you know how to play
the damn game. These girls
are clueless with this stuff,
and that is why they make
the mistakes you mentioned
over and over. They still
haven't learned not to make
lateral passes against a set
defense. Hell, the defensive
player doesn't even have to
be between their man and the
ball. I could go on and on and
then some....so could you. LOL

I'm obviously not observing
their practices, but my sense is
it's run at all costs. I've been
saying this for two years about
this coach. First year he gets
a pass due to rebuild, re intro
to new coaching and style etc.
I see no growth and no
improvement.

 

[Chescat]

I like Coach White, but I’m starting to think he’s putting “the family” and keeping everyone happy ahead of what’s best for the team to succeed.

I say if you think Strother is a good 3-point shooter, let her play and shoot. She clearly has confidence issues that getting 3 or 4 shots a game will not fix. Now last night I think she took several threes. That’s a move in the right direction.

Sit Hayford until she learns to value the ball and good shots more.
Play the best five until they need breathers and put them back in as soon as they are ready.

I was hoping the days of sweating whether we could get to ten points each quarter were over, but clearly they are not…

Go Pitt

Major, I can tell you're a
nice guy. You've been the
last one on here to criticize
Coach White. You just might
be right about keeping all of
em happy. "Sit Haywood??
Now where have we heard
that before?..LOL, "play the
best five.......set up "Strother
and let her play and shoot."
I totally agree and I'm sure
you've noticed while some
of us have been ranting about
a 13 person rotation. That
rotation issue speaks to
your exact point.

Anyway, maybe you notice,
but I very seldom criticize
what Capel is doing X and O
wise in my posts. He can't
recruit and has not developed
the program. White on the
other hand IMO does not
know Bball. If he does, we
would see some improvement
and not the same game after
game approach and mistakes.
He's lucky he has fans like you,
but even your patience has its
limits. I enoy your posts.

 

[MajorMajors]

Yeah, seems like Coach White needs to hire an “Offensive Coordinator”…

Go Pitt.

 

[pierre93]

I guess I used bellwether with BC Because they were 2-11 last year and finished last in the ACC.

I respect your opinion and agree with you except trading wins with the other bottom feeders isn’t any improvement. That is all they have done in the White era.

Is this you Suzie?

 

[Dukesfan1]

Is this you Suzie?

Nope. However, if I was Suzie I would point out my record was better than 7-50 through my first 57 ACC league games. And I made the NCAA tournament in my second season in the ACC after an 0-16 Big East finish by Agnus B that I inherited.

I would also say that I could coach but I couldn’t recruit and I compounded that by hiring my sister who had the same recruiting contacts that I did.

 

[pierre93]

Nope. However, if I was Suzie I would point out my record was better than 7-50 through my first 57 ACC league games. And I made the NCAA tournament in my second season in the ACC after an 0-16 Big East finish by Agnus B that I inherited.

I would also say that I could coach but I couldn’t recruit and I compounded that by hiring my sister who had the same recruiting contacts that I did.

Suzie and her sister are coaching HS where they belong. Swearing at players and players families during games wasn't cool.

 

[Dukesfan1]

Suzie and her sister are coaching HS where they belong. Swearing at players and players families during games wasn't cool.

Agreed.

 

[HOF Coach]

Suzie and her sister are coaching HS where they belong. Swearing at players and players families during games wasn't cool.

They swore??

GTFOH!