Women's Hoops Team

[DC_Area_Panther]

Women's team going to Italy for a series of games this summer.

Coach Serio coached U-19 US National team to Silver Medal. Lost a close title game to Russian U-19 team.

One of incoming recruits played for Puerto Rican National Team. She had a double double in one of the tournament games.

We should be hopeful that the recruit from the Puerto Rican National team plus the two new 6-3 girls on the Pitt team will help the 2017-18 team be a winner.

 

[levance2]

What kind of time does SMS have left on her contract? That's going to be a tough call for Pitt. She's got a better resume than anyone Pitt will ever hire for that job, yet is struggling far more than anyone might've expected.

 

[KiwiJeff]

What kind of time does SMS have left on her contract? That's going to be a tough call for Pitt. She's got a better resume than anyone Pitt will ever hire for that job, yet is struggling far more than anyone might've expected.

Pitt Hoops has just seemed to go toxic. Both Men's and Women's teams had some decent seasons, but both have real struggled since.

 

[CrazyPaco]

What kind of time does SMS have left on her contract? That's going to be a tough call for Pitt. She's got a better resume than anyone Pitt will ever hire for that job, yet is struggling far more than anyone might've expected.

Signed through 2020-21 by Barnes. Her college coaching resume is not good. If the status quo holds for much longer, it won't be a hard decision at all.

 

[ameoba defense]

Signed through 2020-21 by Barnes. Her college coaching resume is not good. If that status quo holds for much longer it won't be a hard decision at all.

I don't think her resume is terrible. She did a pretty good job at Duquesne. They were hot garbage before she got there, and she turned them into a winner, although her assistant has taken them a step beyond where she was. Baring a collapse, I think she'll get 3 more years. However, being the number 2 dog in town will have to change quickly, although I don't know how good Duquesne is supposed to be this year. The series has gotten fairly lopsided, which can't continue. Even RMU regularly makes the tournament.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I don't think her resume is terrible. She did a pretty good job at Duquesne. They were hot garbage before she got there, and she turned them into a winner, although her assistant has taken them a step beyond where she was. Baring a collapse, I think she'll get 3 more years. However, being the number 2 dog in town will have to change quickly, although I don't know how good Duquesne is supposed to be this year. The series has gotten fairly lopsided, which can't continue. Even RMU regularly makes the tournament.

Her tenure at Duquense wouldn't have landed her many major power conference jobs anywhere but in Pittsburgh. She was a "Dave Wannstedt" type of hire as a local legend. If she turns it around, it will be great. I think she has two more years with status quo, and the status quo is unacceptable, maybe 3 if she is showing real progress or bringing in big classes to warrant a third.

 

[Chescat]

Bottom line is winning. So far in the ACC we are way behind especially in recruiting and
talent. When your best player transfers out of the program TWO years in a row, one has to wonder why.
IMO from games I've seen on tv or computer, Susie certainly knows her X's and O's,
but when the opposition's talent is so obviously better, her coaching can only accomplish so much...not enough to knock off the upper level teams in this conference.
Syracuse is a program that quickly moved up, their talent level suddenly has them as
a much superior team talent wise than Pitt. Their athleticism, height, and overall play
was evident when they played us. And that's only Syracuse.... the Louisvilles, N.D.'s and Dukes are a whole other story.
Susie is highly regarded in women's Bball, and may be a legend in western pa, but other areas also produce great coaches who developed great programs. Speaking of great coaches with PA roots.....how about Staley at S.Carolina, Muffett McGraw at ND, and at UCONN's Auriemma.....they all come out of eastern PA.

 

[levance2]

Her tenure at Duquense wouldn't have landed her many major power conference jobs anywhere but in Pittsburgh. She was a "Dave Wannstedt" type of hire as a local legend.

Susie is highly regarded in women's Bball, and may be a legend in western pa, but other areas also produce great coaches who developed great programs.

That's gross oversimplification. She was a college All-American who set NCAA records for assists. She was All-WNBA first team. She won an Olympic gold medal. She won a WNBA Coach of the Year award. Even if she hadn't played at PSU or coached at Oakland Catholic, she'd have credentials on paper significantly better than anyone we'll ever hire.

None of that matters if she can't win at Pitt, but to call her hire homerism is disingenuous to say the least.

 

[CrazyPaco]

That's gross oversimplification. She was a college All-American who set NCAA records for assists. She was All-WNBA first team. She won an Olympic gold medal. She won a WNBA Coach of the Year award. Even if she hadn't played at PSU or coached at Oakland Catholic, she'd have credentials on paper significantly better than anyone we'll ever hire.

None of that matters if she can't win at Pitt, but to call her hire homerism is disingenuous to say the least.

It was homerism. She would would never have been hired at Pitt if she wasn't a local golden girl. Was it worth trying to build a program around the McConnell name? Absolutely. But in reality, what she did as a player means nothing, unless, I guess, if you are St Johns or Georgetown making desperation legacy hires. What she did as a high school coach also means squat. Really, her record as a WNBA coach really doesn't mean much either unless she could turn it into a recruiting pitch..but that doesn't seem to have happened. It's not like WNBA coaches have the sort of marketing value that former NBA or NFL coaches have when they go down into the college ranks. College is actually a higher level than the WNBA for a coach, and it is completely different to build a college program than coach in high school or the WNBA. Her record at Duquesne speaks for itself...never better than 3rd in a weak A10, never past the 3rd round of the WNIT,...mediocre at best. Strip the name and local pedigree away and Pitt wouldn't not have hired a coach with the track record that she had at Duquesne.

Pitt wouldn't have hired Wannstedt either if he wasn't a Pitt alumn. There's nothing wrong with trying those options, because if they work out, it is wonderful. But lets not pretend Susie would be at Pitt if she hailed from Chicago.

 

[ameoba defense]

It was homerism. She would would never have been hired at Pitt if she wasn't a local golden girl. Was it worth trying to build a program around the McConnell name? Absolutely. But in reality, what she did as a player means nothing, unless, I guess, if you are St Johns or Georgetown making desperation legacy hires. What she did as a high school coach also means squat. Really, her record as a WNBA coach really doesn't mean much either unless she could turn it into a recruiting pitch..but that doesn't seem to have happened. It's not like WNBA coaches have the sort of marketing value that former NBA or NFL coaches have when they go down into the college ranks. College is actually a higher level than the WNBA for a coach, and it is completely different to build a college program than coach in high school or the WNBA. Her record at Duquesne speaks for itself...never better than 3rd in a weak A10, never past the 3rd round of the WNIT,...mediocre at best. Strip the name and local pedigree away and Pitt wouldn't not have hired a coach with the track record that she had at Duquesne.

Pitt wouldn't have hired Wannstedt either if he wasn't a Pitt alumn. There's nothing wrong with trying those options, because if they work out, it is wonderful. But lets not pretend Susie would be at Pitt if she hailed from Chicago.

Please show me the great track record of Tracie Waites before she came to Pitt. My guess is that Suzie would have turned down Pitt if Pitt were located in Chicago.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Please show me the great track record of Tracie Waites before she came to Pitt. My guess is that Suzie would have turned down Pitt if Pitt were located in Chicago.

You're trying to equivocate an epicly bad hire like Tracie Waites to what? I never said Suzie was a bad hire. I have said it was the obvious and easy hire. And I have obviously said what she did at Duquesne didn't impress me, and going by her tenure there I was weary, and I don't think Pitt would have hired her if she didn't bring all the other intangibles which aren't paying off so far. Those intangibles include a big local name and ties, and that is both true and obvious.

Waites was the head coach at Santa Monica Community College for a year or two, but was only in major college coaching for four years, 2 as an associate head coach when Arizona got turned around and made the NCAAs a couple of times, once finishing in the top 10. Presumably she helped to build the program there, but it was a bad hire as she was fairly inexperienced and never ran a D1 college program herself. But the athletic department was in serious financial condition when she was hired, so her best attribute might have been the salary she was willing to take.

Suzie's record as a college coach is all that matters and it is what it is. She has another couple of years to right the ship. If will be great if she does.

 

[levance2]

I don't think Pitt would have hired her if she didn't bring all the other intangibles

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

 

[CrazyPaco]

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

For the most part, I've found the play disappointing, which I what I feared based on the reviews from the previous showings at the theater across town. However, the third act is yet to come so I hold out hope that the first two haven't been in vain.

 

[Chescat]

I think we all agree that she knows her stuff and her resume is great. Paco stated that
"the play is disappointing".... and that's true. It's disappointing because of the level of
recruiting and trying to win in the ACC with those types of recruits. It's also tough when your two best players transfer out TWO years in a row. You can bet that opposing
coaches use that against her on the recruiting trail.
I mentioned Stacey, Auriemma and Moffett in a previous post....those are three great coaches with PA roots....good as her resume is, it doesn't come close to what those coaches have accomplished with their programs. I didn't look beyond those three, but I'm sure there's others from PA. She was a great player, did very well coaching the Dukes, and has done well on the international stage with GREAT players. She CAN coach them successfully, but she didn't recruit those players...they were handed to her. Recruiting at Pitt is a whole other animal, and she has yet to earn her stripes here. Again...take a look at Syracuse...how come that guy is bringing in that kind of talent??
IMO, if she got "that" kind of talent she'd also win; until she does...well,you're looking at
the results.
.

 

[ameoba defense]

I think we all agree that she knows her stuff and her resume is great. Paco stated that
"the play is disappointing".... and that's true. It's disappointing because of the level of
recruiting and trying to win in the ACC with those types of recruits. It's also tough when your two best players transfer out TWO years in a row. You can bet that opposing
coaches use that against her on the recruiting trail.
I mentioned Stacey, Auriemma and Moffett in a previous post....those are three great coaches with PA roots....good as her resume is, it doesn't come close to what those coaches have accomplished with their programs. I didn't look beyond those three, but I'm sure there's others from PA. She was a great player, did very well coaching the Dukes, and has done well on the international stage with GREAT players. She CAN coach them successfully, but she didn't recruit those players...they were handed to her. Recruiting at Pitt is a whole other animal, and she has yet to earn her stripes here. Again...take a look at Syracuse...how come that guy is bringing in that kind of talent??
IMO, if she got "that" kind of talent she'd also win; until she does...well,you're looking at
the results.
.

Geno Auriemma had a very light resume when he was hired at UConn. So did Muffet McGraw when she was hired by Notre Dame. They earned their reps after they landed major jobs. Suzie's resume at the time Pitt hired her, was better than either of those two. People on this board always have an inflated idea of the attractiveness of every opening at Pitt. Unless you are a blue blood program, you will nearly always get new coaches from one of four sources. Promote from within, assistant from a winning program, head coach from a lower level, or retread. If a coach has a sparkling resume, they're not going to leave their current position for anything less than a job at one of the behemoths.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Geno Auriemma had a very light resume when he was hired at UConn. So did Muffet McGraw when she was hired by Notre Dame. They earned their reps after they landed major jobs. Suzie's resume at the time Pitt hired her, was better than either of those two. People on this board always have an inflated idea of the attractiveness of every opening at Pitt. Unless you are a blue blood program, you will nearly always get new coaches from one of four sources. Promote from within, assistant from a winning program, head coach from a lower level, or retread. If a coach has a sparkling resume, they're not going to leave their current position for anything less than a job at one of the behemoths.

Geno was an assistant before taking the UConn job. UConn had one winning season in its history before Geno. It wasn't a good program, and neither was the men's team...UConn had no reputation for hoops, and the Big East wasn't a top women's hoops conference. There also wasn't anything like the money in women's coaching like there is now. With the last change, Pitt could have looked at someone with a much better coaching record to make the jump to a power conference if it had wanted to. The money difference is now substantial from low/mid-major to power schools in women's hoops. I personally probably would have interviewed more people, but probably still hired McConnell.

McGraw... similar idea...hired in 1988 but had been a head coach at Lehigh. But she actually had a better college coaching resume than Suzie... Took over a program with back to back 7-win seasons to go .682 over five seasons including a conference championship.

 

[ameoba defense]

Geno was an assistant before taking the UConn job. UConn had one winning season in its history before Geno. It wasn't a good program, and neither was the men's team...UConn had no reputation for hoops, and the Big East wasn't a top women's hoops conference. There also wasn't anything like the money in women's coaching like there is now. With the last change, Pitt could have looked at someone with a much better coaching record to make the jump to a power conference if it had wanted to. The money difference is now substantial from low/mid-major to power schools in women's hoops. I personally probably would have interviewed more people, but probably still hired McConnell.

McGraw... similar idea...hired in 1988 but had been a head coach at Lehigh. But she actually had a better college coaching resume than Suzie... Took over a program with back to back 7-win seasons to go .682 over five seasons including a conference championship.

Duquesne's a better job than Lehigh though. The A10 is usually a multi bid league, and Duquesne was garbage before Suzie took over. She posted a .644 winning percentage, playing a better schedule than Lehigh. Would you really rather have a coach with a great record at a low major, a opposed to a coach with a lesser record, but coming from the level one step below the P5? If so, then the Pitt men should have been open to hiring a low major coach with a great record, as opposed to the retread we got. Personally, I have no problem with hiring a low level coach with a great record, but it certainly seems to be trending the other way for most teams lately.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Duquesne's a better job than Lehigh though. The A10 is usually a multi bid league, and Duquesne was garbage before Suzie took over. She posted a .644 winning percentage, playing a better schedule than Lehigh. Would you really rather have a coach with a great record at a low major, a opposed to a coach with a lesser record, but coming from the level one step below the P5? If so, then the Pitt men should have been open to hiring a low major coach with a great record, as opposed to the retread we got. Personally, I have no problem with hiring a low level coach with a great record, but it certainly seems to be trending the other way for most teams lately.

Early/mid-80s women's basketball was a lot different. It wasn't stratified. Schools were still playing in the AIAW through 1982. The Patriot League didn't exist. Lehigh was playing in a league with Philly schools like LaSalle and Drexel.

 

[Chescat]

We've gotten way off track with this thread. I'm guilty too since I was making comparisons with other coaches with PA roots.
Bottom line (despite all other comments).....Suzie can coach, knows basketball, etc.
etc....BUT, she has yet to recruit what's going to win at the ACC level.
Staley, Moffett, and Auriemma all recruit to that level and above, and until Suzie does,
we're gonna see more of the same.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I think we all agree that she knows her stuff and her resume is great. Paco stated that
"the play is disappointing".... and that's true. It's disappointing because of the level of
recruiting and trying to win in the ACC with those types of recruits. It's also tough when your two best players transfer out TWO years in a row. You can bet that opposing
coaches use that against her on the recruiting trail.
I mentioned Stacey, Auriemma and Moffett in a previous post....those are three great coaches with PA roots....good as her resume is, it doesn't come close to what those coaches have accomplished with their programs. I didn't look beyond those three, but I'm sure there's others from PA. She was a great player, did very well coaching the Dukes, and has done well on the international stage with GREAT players. She CAN coach them successfully, but she didn't recruit those players...they were handed to her. Recruiting at Pitt is a whole other animal, and she has yet to earn her stripes here. Again...take a look at Syracuse...how come that guy is bringing in that kind of talent??
IMO, if she got "that" kind of talent she'd also win; until she does...well,you're looking at
the results.
.

I agree. In her case it is not the Xs and Os, IMO. When she has had good talent (e.g., WNBA Team, Team USA, U-19) and her Pitt season when she had both an excellent PG (Kiesel) and a very good Post (5th year senior volley baller) she has succeeded very well. Since that one Pitt season, she hasn't had enough overall talent for coaching skill to overcome. There has been no ACC level PG since Kiesel and there has been a lack of both adequate size and depth in the Post. The Brandi Harvey-Carr 1-year patch was reminiscent of Jamie Dixon's late tenure struggles to obtain decent low-post help and she had no backup with size to spell her.

I don't see evidence that the PG deficiency is fixed with this year's roster; but, maybe the Brit PG will be better than the returnees. I am more hopeful that having the two new 6-3 ladies who are described as being athletic will make the front court play (offensively and defensively) significantly better. If nothing else, having two athletic bigs (a little more of both depth and athleticism in the post) vs the only one with limited athleticism we had in Harvey-Carr this past season should be an improvement.

A final note--transfer out rates in women's college hoops generally have historically been significantly higher than in men's hoops so I don't find Pitt's issue entirely as alarming as some. I speculate (I have no info) this latest one may have been a combo of being tired of losing, wanting more potential WNBA exposure and being forced to play out of position to a degree due to a lack of post depth. But, this is just my personal opinion without any supporting facts.

I remain hopeful the women will at least be over 0.500 this year and possibly see the WNIT.

 

[levance2]

Why do you keep bringing up Auriemma? Literally no other coach recruits or wins like he does.

 

[Chescat]

Why do you keep bringing up Auriemma? Literally no other coach recruits or wins like he does.

Not sure if you're replying to my bringing up Auriemma,but if you are...I'm sure you noticed I brought up not only Auriemma but also Staley and Moffett. Why? because
they like Suzie are also originally from PA (Norristown, Philly, and Pottsville). My point was they are winning because of great recruiting along with good coaching (of course it's easier when you've got the horses)...and that's the point I was making..those three
not only can coach ( I also pointed out that Suzie could as well).but they recruit at a level that Suzie does not. Staley just won an NCAA championship and Moffett's
NCAA record is also great.
By the way...I also twice referred to the Syracuse coach who is recruiting at a level
which has moved Syracuse well past Pitt into the upper echelon of the ACC (his ACC record is 45-29)....It wasn't all about Auriemma.

 

[levance2]

Staley, Moffett, and Auriemma all recruit to that level and above, and until Suzie does,
we're gonna see more of the same.

SMS will never come anywhere close to Auriemma's level, and neither will any other WBB coach other than Pat Summitt.

 

[Chescat]

SMS will never come anywhere close to Auriemma's level, and neither will any other WBB coach other than Pat Summitt.

You're right about SMS "never coming anywhere close to Auriemma's level."You also
mentioned Summitt..I agree with your assessment of these two,
but I'd suggest you
take a look at Dawn Staley at South Carolina.....last year's NCAA champ, year before
sweet sixteen, year before final four, year before sweet sixteen. Her record the last three
years is 100-9. She's been on and upward trend first at Temple and now at a SEC school.
Her playing career is almost unheard of...3 gold olympic medals, h.s All American and national h.s. player of the year, All American in college, and national college player of the year, an NCAA champion and two other final fours. She's already in the Naismth hall of fame and was a six time pro all star in the WNBA. She's also only 48 yr. old, so a good part of her future is still ahead of her. If there's anyone who can catch up to Auriemma and Summitt it's Dawn Staley.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The women beat a team from Germany today, 47-37. I wonder if the reason for the really low score is that they didn't play 40 minutes?

Anyhoo, Alyana Gribble was the only Panther in double figures with 15. Kyla Nelson, the guard from England, had 8 points and 4 assists. Kalista Walters had 7 points and 10 rebounds. It appears that neither of the two tall newcomers scored, and neither did the girl who played for Puerto Rico in the U19 championships.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

The women beat a team from Germany today, 47-37. I wonder if the reason for the really low score is that they didn't play 40 minutes?

Anyhoo, Alyana Gribble was the only Panther in double figures with 15. Kyla Nelson, the guard from England, had 8 points and 4 assists. Kalista Walters had 7 points and 10 rebounds. It appears that neither of the two tall newcomers scored, and neither did the girl who played for Puerto Rico in the U19 championships.

Maybe they didn't even play.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Maybe they didn't even play.

You can actually watch a cell phone video of the game on the women's basketball facebook page. I'm watching it now, it's late in the first quarter and both Henry and Judkins are in the game. No Rodriguez yet.

Pitt started Nelson at the point, Gribble at the two, Diop at the three and Walters and Danielle Garvin at the four and five (it's kind of hard to tell which is which, but I'm guessing Walters at the five). One other interesting note, late in the first quarter when they took Nelson out of the game Gribble was playing the point.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Rodriguez just entered the game late in the first, playing the point and bumping Gribble back to the two.

 

[ameoba defense]

You're right about SMS "never coming anywhere close to Auriemma's level."You also
mentioned Summitt..I agree with your assessment of these two,
but I'd suggest you
take a look at Dawn Staley at South Carolina.....last year's NCAA champ, year before
sweet sixteen, year before final four, year before sweet sixteen. Her record the last three
years is 100-9. She's been on and upward trend first at Temple and now at a SEC school.
Her playing career is almost unheard of...3 gold olympic medals, h.s All American and national h.s. player of the year, All American in college, and national college player of the year, an NCAA champion and two other final fours. She's already in the Naismth hall of fame and was a six time pro all star in the WNBA. She's also only 48 yr. old, so a good part of her future is still ahead of her. If there's anyone who can catch up to Auriemma and Summitt it's Dawn Staley.

Staley might have a chance to end up third on the all time list, maybe even getting close enough to sniff Summitt. She ain't getting within a mile of Geno. UConn nearly went undefeated in what was widely acknowledged as a rebuilding year. They will be an overwhelming favorite to win this year. Geno might have 15 championships before he's done.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Rodriguez just entered the game late in the first, playing the point and bumping Gribble back to the two.

I'd watch but I don't do Facebook.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I'd watch but I don't do Facebook.

Maybe they will run it on the official site later.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'd watch but I don't do Facebook.

I actually don't do Facebook either, but you don't need to be a Facebook member to view the video. You can link to it from the Pitt site.

I only watched the first half. It's hard to get a good perspective on anything on a cell phone video. At least in the first quarter the person doing the video was sitting/standing at center court. In the second quarter for whatever reason they moved down to the corner along the baseline, which meant that when Pitt was on defense at the opposite end of the court it was hard to really see what was going on, and when Pitt had the ball on the same side of the court as the video person they could only get about 1/3 of the court in the view at a time, so you had no idea what was going on anywhere than with the person who had the ball.

Pitt led 20-7 at the end of the first quarter and 32-16 at the half, and since the game ended 47-37 that meant that Pitt scored 15 points in the second half. They also didn't score for the three minutes or so of the second quarter, so that means 15 points in 23 minutes. That is, well, not good. And just like what we saw way too often last season. Of course the situation of this game is just a little bit different than a real game against a real team during the real season.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Use this link and you should be able to watch it:

www.facebook.com/pg/PittWomensBasketball/videos/

 

[Saboteur]

Signed through 2020-21 by Barnes. Her college coaching resume is not good. If the status quo holds for much longer, it won't be a hard decision at all.

She did a great job at Duquesne. She has not at Pitt.

 

[Saboteur]

Early/mid-80s women's basketball was a lot different. It wasn't stratified. Schools were still playing in the AIAW through 1982. The Patriot League didn't exist. Lehigh was playing in a league with Philly schools like LaSalle and Drexel.

Immaculata was a power.

 

[CrazyPaco]

She did a great job at Duquesne. She has not at Pitt.

Your definition of "great" differs from mine.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Lack of success is entirely a recruiting and player retention problem, IMHO. Why this should be so is a mystery to me.

Maybe with some luck there will be a breakout season and at least get to the WNIT in March. Perhaps that will help the weak recruiting and retention problem? But, I am not holding my breath.

 

[MajorMajors]

--The good news from Italy is that Yacine Diop is playing again. She scored 7 points in this game -- it appears from the photo that she was in the starting lineup.

--If Pitt hadn't lost their 2 best players to transfer over that last two years, they would have a pretty good team this season. As it is, they are pretty much starting all over again....

--I hope Jasmine Whitney is healthy enough to play this season -- I think she will be a pretty good point guard.

Go Pitt.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

--The good news from Italy is that Yacine Diop is playing again. She scored 7 points in this game -- it appears from the photo that she was in the starting lineup.

--If Pitt hadn't lost their 2 best players to transfer over that last two years, they would have a pretty good team this season. As it is, they are pretty much starting all over again....

--I hope Jasmine Whitney is healthy enough to play this season -- I think she will be a pretty good point guard.

Go Pitt.

As I noted, the starting lineup was Nelson, Gribble, Diop, Garvin and Walters. I watched the first half and neither Whitney nor Bugg played at all in the first half. They are both on the trip, so perhaps injury?

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

New freshmen didn't seem to play much either--or if they did they were invisible. I suspect we are seeing a roster of which too many of the players are new, haven't practiced or played together before and are in a situation more resembling a pick-up game in the park than of an organized team playing another organized team.