World Soccer Fans

[BFo8]

I loved that Gerrard/Lampard/Beckham/Terry/Ferdinand generation. So much talent. Pretty much everyone was on one of the EPL's Big 4. But they greatly underachieved. This English teams seems much less talented and they haven't beaten anyone yet. Drawing Colombia without James and advancing on penalties isn't tjat impressive.

These were the guys that were chokers. I loved them too but they were tight as you can get at match time. Add Rooney and his weak leadership as well.

Obviously you can’t sit Kane, but I love what Rashford brings in big matches where one goal can be decisive. Not having the anchor that is Joe Hart in goal helps as well.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I loved that Gerrard/Lampard/Beckham/Terry/Ferdinand generation. So much talent. Pretty much everyone was on one of the EPL's Big 4. But they greatly underachieved. This English teams seems much less talented and they haven't beaten anyone yet. Drawing Colombia without James and advancing on penalties isn't tjat impressive.

These were the guys that were chokers. I loved them too but they were tight as you can get at match time. Add Rooney and his weak leadership as well.

Obviously you can’t sit Kane, but I love what Rashford brings in big matches where one goal can be decisive. Not having the anchor that is Joe Hart in goal helps as well.

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

 

[BFo8]

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

Yep, you’re right about that to be sure. Even before that I liked how Southgate built this team, it was just so different from the last couple England squads.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

Yep, you’re right about that to be sure. Even before that I liked how Southgate built this team, it was just so different from the last couple England squads.

Didn’t it have to be though? England doesn't have any mega-star, worldwide household names outside of Kane.

 

[Pitt79]

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

I'm rooting for Russia to bust the bracket, I absolutely hate England! Love it when they lose! Cocky bastards act like they own the sport but never win the big one. I wish American TV would quit with English accented TV announcers too. GO PUTIN's BOYZ! Although I think it will be Croatia, they look good.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

I'm rooting for Russia to bust the bracket, I absolutely hate England! Love it when they lose! Cocky bastards act like they own the sport but never win the big one. I wish American TV would quit with English accented TV announcers too. GO PUTIN's BOYZ! Although I think it will be Croatia, they look good.

I love the English announcers. I actually don't like that Fox Americanized this WC going with all American announcers except the Mexican crew (which is pretty good) and Derek Rae who is broadcasting with Ally Wagner.

 

[Pitt79]

I love the English announcers. I actually don't like that Fox Americanized this WC going with all American announcers except the Mexican crew (which is pretty good) and Derek Rae who is broadcasting with Ally Wagner.

I'm Greek, my hatred of the English announcers goes back to the 2004 Euro Final, Greece vs. Portugal aka, "The CRYIN' Renaldos" , They had a pregame show, dedicated entirely to telling the world HOW BAD GREECE SUCKS and How easy it will be for Portugal to crush them, then they mispronounced every Greek name for 90 minutes talking about how Greece can't win- UNTIL THEY DID, plus the A-hole criminal nation England, STOLE the Acropolis marbles 200 years ago and refuses to give them back the their rightful owners. I hate England and anything "Brit".

 

[Pitt79]

 

[Pitt79]

You know that England has NEVER even made the Euro Finals, let alone won it.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Didn’t it have to be though? England doesn't have any mega-star, worldwide household names outside of Kane.

In 2010 when we tied them, they had Gerrard, Terry, Cole, Lampard, and Rooney. Not much else from what I can recall. Granted it’s more than we ever had...but I’m not sure they’ve ever had a squad that strikes fear into anyone. Granted, I’m still green behind the ears as a follower of the pro and international sport considering I only go back less than 20 years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Didn’t it have to be though? England doesn't have any mega-star, worldwide household names outside of Kane.

In 2010 when we tied them, they had Gerrard, Terry, Cole, Lampard, and Rooney. Not much else from what I can recall. Granted it’s more than we ever had...but I’m not sure they’ve ever had a squad that strikes fear into anyone. Granted, I’m still green behind the ears as a follower of the pro and international sport considering I only go back less than 20 years.

If we dont consider Cole a mega-star, that's still 4 from 2010 vs 1 from this year's squad. I guess my point is its not like Southgate picked the team strategically. He picked the best English players. It just so happens that there is only 1 English mega-star right now.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

If we dont consider Cole a mega-star, that's still 4 from 2010 vs 1 from this year's squad. I guess my point is its not like Southgate picked the team strategically. He picked the best English players. It just so happens that there is only 1 English mega-star right now.

Agreed. Cole is at the level of a rashford, and lingard. Actually given his position, maybe a Kyle Walker? Dele Alli is a real talent. Not a megastar though.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I didnt think Russia would beat Spain but I cant say I am that surprised. Spain is down by their standards.

I had Belgium over Colombia in the finals.

I post on bigsoccer.com but very rarely. My problem with that board is that is way, way too popular. Threads get like thousands of replies and its just too hard to keep up with.

Hear the news today? A deal between Renaldo and Juventus is said to be hours away, where he will sign for 4 years. And there’s an MLS tie in as well...where he may come here and have his own franchise when his contract is up. Juventus owners are looking into investing in the MLS.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I didnt think Russia would beat Spain but I cant say I am that surprised. Spain is down by their standards.

I had Belgium over Colombia in the finals.

I post on bigsoccer.com but very rarely. My problem with that board is that is way, way too popular. Threads get like thousands of replies and its just too hard to keep up with.

Hear the news today? A deal between Renaldo and Juventus is said to be hours away, where he will sign for 4 years. And there’s an MLS tie in as well...where he may come here and have his own franchise when his contract is up. Juventus owners are looking into investing in the MLS.

Heard it. An eye-opening move but its about time Serie A teams start paying big money again.

As for Ronaldo and MLS, I would be shocked if he never played in MLS. I mean it would be the perfect match. He is the Hollywood-type transcendent superstar like Beckham. Actually, I kinda thought he'd come over after this World Cup. But I guess not. I can see him going to Beckham's Miami team when that starts.

As for Juventus's owner investing in MLS, I hate that idea. Chivas USA failed miserably. RBNY has had its moments but would they sign big names now that Red Bull Leipzig is in the Bundesliga? And I dont like NYCFC being Man City's JV team. What happens in 2026 when MLS starts to try to be a Big 3 league? Man City/NYCFC would have a conflict of interest and be competing over the same players. We dont need Juventus owners. There are plenty of American billionaires.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Heard it. An eye-opening move but its about time Serie A teams start paying big money again.

As for Ronaldo and MLS, I would be shocked if he never played in MLS. I mean it would be the perfect match. He is the Hollywood-type transcendent superstar like Beckham. Actually, I kinda thought he'd come over after this World Cup. But I guess not. I can see him going to Beckham's Miami team when that starts.

As for Juventus's owner investing in MLS, I hate that idea. Chivas USA failed miserably. RBNY has had its moments but would they sign big names now that Red Bull Leipzig is in the Bundesliga? And I dont like NYCFC being Man City's JV team. What happens in 2026 when MLS starts to try to be a Big 3 league? Man City/NYCFC would have a conflict of interest and be competing over the same players. We dont need Juventus owners. There are plenty of American billionaires.

The MLS wants to be a top league in the same way Nutting wants the Pirates to compete.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Heard it. An eye-opening move but its about time Serie A teams start paying big money again.

As for Ronaldo and MLS, I would be shocked if he never played in MLS. I mean it would be the perfect match. He is the Hollywood-type transcendent superstar like Beckham. Actually, I kinda thought he'd come over after this World Cup. But I guess not. I can see him going to Beckham's Miami team when that starts.

As for Juventus's owner investing in MLS, I hate that idea. Chivas USA failed miserably. RBNY has had its moments but would they sign big names now that Red Bull Leipzig is in the Bundesliga? And I dont like NYCFC being Man City's JV team. What happens in 2026 when MLS starts to try to be a Big 3 league? Man City/NYCFC would have a conflict of interest and be competing over the same players. We dont need Juventus owners. There are plenty of American billionaires.

The MLS wants to be a top league in the same way Nutting wants the Pirates to compete.

No, they really do and they are going to attempt it in 2026.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

Hey, but the key is, when you get that opportunity, you take advantage of it. Remember Pitt in 2002 NCAA tourney in basketball. We hosted the first two rounds, drew Central Connecticut and Cal as a 3 seed. Alabama was the 2 seed and was knocked off by 10 seed Kent State. We lost to Kent State in the Sweet 16. On the other side of the bracket, #1 seed Duke lost to #5 Indiana. We could have (should have) gotten to the Final 4 without having to face a top 4 seed. We did not take advantage of that route.

 

[PeetWeet1]

No, they really do and they are going to attempt it in 2026.

Keep telling yourself that. If they wanted to be a top league, they wouldn’t have a salary cap.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

But they greatly underachieved.

They underachieved because they had too many guys who did the same things, and not enough "variety" among the top players. But they couldn't bench some of those guys, because they were superstars, and you aren't sitting a superstar out and getting away with it in the media environment around English soccer. If you were building a club team you would have never signed all those guys to play for you, even though individually they were all stars.

It would be like an NFL team having six really good defensive linemen on it. Each individual guy might be a star, but you can't play them all together. And when you start screwing with your lineup to get them all on the field at the same time you make your team worse rather than better.

 

[PHEONIX4]

I cant believe England's path to a final would only require them to beat Panama, Tunisia, Colombia, Sweden, and Russia/Croatia. If such things are tracked, that would have to be the weakest path to a Final ever

Yep thats the reason why they rested a lot of their players their last qualifying game.

 

[Pitt79]

Keep telling yourself that. If they wanted to be a top league, they wouldn’t have a salary cap.

To be honest, salary cap is a good thing. Look at the "top leagues" no salary caps in Europe and it's the same one or two teams winning the title every year in all their leagues. Personally, I'd rather have an MLS like it is now, than an MLS where 8-10 teams fold and LA and NY win 19 out of the next 20 years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But they greatly underachieved.

They underachieved because they had too many guys who did the same things, and not enough "variety" among the top players. But they couldn't bench some of those guys, because they were superstars, and you aren't sitting a superstar out and getting away with it in the media environment around English soccer. If you were building a club team you would have never signed all those guys to play for you, even though individually they were all stars.

It would be like an NFL team having six really good defensive linemen on it. Each individual guy might be a star, but you can't play them all together. And when you start screwing with your lineup to get them all on the field at the same time you make your team worse rather than better.

I dont buy that. Look at Germany's generation at that time. Comes down to egos and coaching.

 

[below0w]

Agreed. Cole is at the level of a rashford, and lingard. Actually given his position, maybe a Kyle Walker? Dele Alli is a real talent. Not a megastar though.

Cole? Ashley Cole? What?

Ashley Cole in 2010 was much, much better than a Rashford or a Lingard. Kyle Walker isn't fit to hold Cole's jock. Cole was one of the best defenders, and arguably the best fullback, in the world at that point.The only player on this current England team who is of comparable stature in terms of world football to 2010 Ashley Cole is Harry Kane.

 

[below0w]

I dont buy that. Look at Germany's generation at that time. Comes down to egos and coaching.

You don't have to buy it, but he's absolutely right. The crux of England's issues can be understood by looking at the microcosm of Lampard vs Gerrard. Both undoubted stars, both among the most talented players of their generation, yet they could never find a way to play to the best of their abilities when they were on the same pitch with the national side. It's not a coaching issue - Lampard/Gerrard played under 5 different managers and none of them could make it work. There was some ego involved, particularly with Gerrard as he was reluctant to play from the right, which maybe could have helped them function a bit better - but that's a secondary issue. Ultimately, England were unlucky to have two world class players whose abilities were devalued whenever they played together. If one of the two had been an out and out striker or strictly a wide player, they wouldn't have had the same problems.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I dont buy that. Look at Germany's generation at that time. Comes down to egos and coaching.

It is no surprise that you don't but it. That doesn't make it any less likely to be true.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You don't have to buy it, but he's absolutely right. The crux of England's issues can be understood by looking at the microcosm of Lampard vs Gerrard. Both undoubted stars, both among the most talented players of their generation, yet they could never find a way to play to the best of their abilities when they were on the same pitch with the national side. It's not a coaching issue - Lampard/Gerrard played under 5 different managers and none of them could make it work. There was some ego involved, particularly with Gerrard as he was reluctant to play from the right, which maybe could have helped them function a bit better - but that's a secondary issue. Ultimately, England were unlucky to have two world class players whose abilities were devalued whenever they played together. If one of the two had been an out and out striker or strictly a wide player, they wouldn't have had the same problems.

Ooo, should have read your reply first.

I mean I didn't think I was saying anything unusual or controversial, I think that pretty much everyone looking back on it, and plenty of people looking at it in "real time", said the same thing.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I admit I am not the biggest soccer fan. but it is not like I am a hater and don't understand it at all. I do follow the international events alot more than say the EPL. So........all of this hero worshipping of the biggest name stars but the best player I have seen in this tournament is Luka Modric. He has been just a dominant force this whole tourney.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I admit I am not the biggest soccer fan. but it is not like I am a hater and don't understand it at all. I do follow the international events alot more than say the EPL. So........all of this hero worshipping of the biggest name stars but the best player I have seen in this tournament is Luka Modric. He has been just a dominant force this whole tourney.

Listening to the guys on Fox sports radio tonight...they all think he’s the best midfielder in the world. Perhaps they are right. Even though he plays for arguably the biggest club in the world, I don’t pay attention to him because I’m an EPL guy. But I will say this, if France wins the whole thing, I’m not sure there’s a more valuable player (let alone midfielder) than N’golo Kante.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I admit I am not the biggest soccer fan. but it is not like I am a hater and don't understand it at all. I do follow the international events alot more than say the EPL. So........all of this hero worshipping of the biggest name stars but the best player I have seen in this tournament is Luka Modric. He has been just a dominant force this whole tourney.

 

[BFo8]

I admit I am not the biggest soccer fan. but it is not like I am a hater and don't understand it at all. I do follow the international events alot more than say the EPL. So........all of this hero worshipping of the biggest name stars but the best player I have seen in this tournament is Luka Modric. He has been just a dominant force this whole tourney.

He played at least 3-4 years for Spurs, was a great player in the EPL as well.

 

[steel_curtain]

I admit I am not the biggest soccer fan. but it is not like I am a hater and don't understand it at all. I do follow the international events alot more than say the EPL. So........all of this hero worshipping of the biggest name stars but the best player I have seen in this tournament is Luka Modric. He has been just a dominant force this whole tourney.

-Way back before this tournament started I said watch out for Croatia's midfield and defense and Belgium's offense as both are dangerous. Modric has been by far the most dominant player in this tournament. All that hype about Brazil and Argentina.... Beaten by both. Hype by France....( who may win)...has worse results against 2 teams Croatia has beaten, Argentina and Denmark. A small country of 4 million people is in the World Cup semifinals for the 2nd time in 20 years, and only has 20 years of soccer history as a Nation. The semi's should be great to watch and both good games, not the hype fest of England running over tired Croatia and France has too much for Belgium. The Media has been wrong the entire tournament and this is one of if not the best World Cup Ive ever seen. Im pulling for the little guys in Croatia and Belgium. Zagreb was insane yesterday.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Hazard has been very dominate too.

But my reason for posting today is England. Before the tourney, Belgium was my #1 adopted team, and England was my #2 team. My dream final for months has been Belgium vs England. Pretty easy for anyone to understand my reasons...given that Chelsea is my favorite football club. But...

Everyone bashes Concacaf and for good reason. But I found myself rooting against England yesterday because it can be argued that their qualification was easier than navigating through Concacaf, and their World Cup draw has been easier than anyone could have expected.

In UEFA qualification, they were in a group with Slovakia, Scotland, Slovenia, Lithuania and Malta. They won the group and qualified. Wow...

In the WC group, they had Tunisia, Panama and played Belgium in a meaningless game (which they lost anyway).

In the knockout rounds, they faced Colombia, Sweden and soon Croatia. So to this point, they avoided all of the “blue bloods” and top teams. They avoided Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, France, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, and top 10 ranked Switzerland, Chile and Poland. Not to mention other highly ranked teams like Denmark and Peru.

I guess they would deserve props for beating Columbia, Coatia and France/Belgium winner. But If England were to win the WC, they would have to have had the most underwhelming ride to to title ever.

 

[below0w]

Ooo, should have read your reply first.

I mean I didn't think I was saying anything unusual or controversial, I think that pretty much everyone looking back on it, and plenty of people looking at it in "real time", said the same thing.

Yeah, you had the right of it. There were other issues that go a lot deeper in terms of player development - for example, the English youth apparatus would emphasize physical over technical development and thus prioritize physically gifted players who weren't technically or mentally up to snuff. Then they watched an army of Spanish midgets dominate world football. They saw Germany, where even the central defenders had the ball skills of an above average midfielder. Nothing countries like Iceland and Belgium make more progress in a decade than England had since 1966. They finally seem to have woken up a bit, although I do think their performance in the WC is primarily the result of a very fortuitous bracket, but it's telling that this team is outperforming all of the objectively more talented English squads of the past few decades. That's mainly because they're no longer trying to fit square pegs into circles.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They finally seem to have woken up a bit, although I do think their performance in the WC is primarily the result of a very fortuitous bracket, but it's telling that this team is outperforming all of the objectively more talented English squads of the past few decades.

I think the other thing working in their favor is the youth of the team. These guys, for the most part, have not had six or seven or eight years in the program and all the negativity that entails. They are too young to "know any better". Pickford, 24, Stones, 24, Maguire, 25, Dier, 24, Kane, 24, Rashford, 20, Loftus-Cheek, 22.

After the game the other day a reporter asked Harry Maguire something about the last time England made the semifinals, and Maguire's answer was something like "you realize that I wasn't even born then, right?"

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Everyone bashes Concacaf and for good reason. But I found myself rooting against England yesterday because it can be argued that their qualification was easier than navigating through Concacaf, and their World Cup draw has been easier than anyone could have expected.

A few cycles back Italy got a qualifying group like that. They were ranked somewhere in the top ten, maybe top five, at the time. By the end of the qualifiers the second highest ranked team in their group was in the 40s and the third highest was in the 50s. I think their group only had five teams in it and the other two were ranked in the 90s or 100s. I remember thinking at the time, heck, even the HEX has better teams than that in it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I dont buy that. Look at Germany's generation at that time. Comes down to egos and coaching.

You don't have to buy it, but he's absolutely right. The crux of England's issues can be understood by looking at the microcosm of Lampard vs Gerrard. Both undoubted stars, both among the most talented players of their generation, yet they could never find a way to play to the best of their abilities when they were on the same pitch with the national side. It's not a coaching issue - Lampard/Gerrard played under 5 different managers and none of them could make it work. There was some ego involved, particularly with Gerrard as he was reluctant to play from the right, which maybe could have helped them function a bit better - but that's a secondary issue. Ultimately, England were unlucky to have two world class players whose abilities were devalued whenever they played together. If one of the two had been an out and out striker or strictly a wide player, they wouldn't have had the same problems.

Gerrard/Lampard, being the same player is the only issue and there is no reason they couldn’t make it work even if they had to sit one. They had Terry, Ferdinand, and Cole in the back. Rooney up to. Beckham in the midfield for part of those teams as well as other very solid complimentary players. I cannot blame all of that underachievement on Gerrard/Lampard.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Hazard has been very dominate too.

But my reason for posting today is England. Before the tourney, Belgium was my #1 adopted team, and England was my #2 team. My dream final for months has been Belgium vs England. Pretty easy for anyone to understand my reasons...given that Chelsea is my favorite football club. But...

Everyone bashes Concacaf and for good reason. But I found myself rooting against England yesterday because it can be argued that their qualification was easier than navigating through Concacaf, and their World Cup draw has been easier than anyone could have expected.

In UEFA qualification, they were in a group with Slovakia, Scotland, Slovenia, Lithuania and Malta. They won the group and qualified. Wow...

In the WC group, they had Tunisia, Panama and played Belgium in a meaningless game (which they lost anyway).

In the knockout rounds, they faced Colombia, Sweden and soon Croatia. So to this point, they avoided all of the “blue bloods” and top teams. They avoided Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, France, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, and top 10 ranked Switzerland, Chile and Poland. Not to mention other highly ranked teams like Denmark and Peru.

I guess they would deserve props for beating Columbia, Coatia and France/Belgium winner. But If England were to win the WC, they would have to have had the most underwhelming ride to to title ever.

Technically, their match vs Colombia ended in a draw

 

[below0w]

Gerrard/Lampard, being the same player is the only issue and there is no reason they couldn’t make it work even if they had to sit one. They had Terry, Ferdinand, and Cole in the back. Rooney up to. Beckham in the midfield for part of those teams as well as other very solid complimentary players. I cannot blame all of that underachievement on Gerrard/Lampard.

Sit one of Lampard or Gerrard? That would have gone over swimmingly. These international tournaments are more about chemistry than anything and that suggestion would have been disastrous from a man management perspective. Not only that, but England simply didn't have the quality to achieve anything if you removed one of their best players. It's a catch 22 and its shadow loomed heavy over English football for a long time. I love statements like "there's no reason they couldn't have made it work". Yeah, 5 England managers couldn't make it work. They were all just idiots, I guess.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Sit one of Lampard or Gerrard? That would have gone over swimmingly.

It's pretty clear that he has absolutely no idea what the ramifications of that would have been.

 

[BFo8]

It's pretty clear that he has absolutely no idea what the ramifications of that would have been.

Argentina going through a little of that, with the friction between Higuain and Aguero over who starts next to Messi.