Florida State Game in Tallahassee & Other Dribbles ...

[CaptainMurphy]

I don’t think this team is “more capable” of deep run than 2011. If you simulated 100 tournaments, that team goes further more often. That was a great team that just happened to get beat. Like 2009, a play or two may have changed history.

But the great thing about the tournament is that this team has a chance to be on the other side of it. You don’t play 100 tournaments. You play one. And I’m excited to see our boys let it rip.

I’d say those teams were more well rounded. At the same time, I think having quality shooters at nearly every position makes this team a more difficult one to face on any given night.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Even the most optimistic Panther fans could never have expected this season to be so successful. I felt pretty good going into the season especially after having seen them practice . I knew the second I started watching Hinson closely that he was going to be a special player , maybe not this special , though ! I also have really liked Burton‘s game since he came to Pitt , but his play this season has far exceeded my wildest expectations. Let’s not forget everyone had HCJC fired after the Michigan disaster . After that game there weren’t many believers left . What a turnaround !

I’m not sure Burtons POY , but he’s certainly in the conversation , but he and Hinson should be first teamers , Fede also has to be in consideration for defensive player of the year and let’s not forget HCJC as COY .

They definitely are a capable tournament team , my fear is that that they meet up with a team with big strong inside guys who get Fede in early foul trouble . The twins are 20lbs to light and a yr away and that’s why I wish Pitt had a healthy John Hugley .

 

[DayOnePittPanthers]

I was at that game in Villanova that night in that shoe box. Wow DT you brought back some memories. This team is starting to create some as well.

 

[PittPoker]

Even the most optimistic Panther fans could never have expected this season to be so successful. I felt pretty good going into the season especially after having seen them practice . I knew the second I started watching Hinson closely that he was going to be a special player , maybe not this special , though ! I also have really liked Burton‘s game since he came to Pitt , but his play this season has far exceeded my wildest expectations. Let’s not forget everyone had HCJC fired after the Michigan disaster . After that game there weren’t many believers left . What a turnaround !

I’m not sure Burtons POY , but he’s certainly in the conversation , but he and Hinson should be first teamers , Fede also has to be in consideration for defensive player of the year and let’s not forget HCJC as COY .

They definitely are a capable tournament team , my fear is that that they meet up with a team with big strong inside guys who get Fede in early foul trouble . The twins are 20lbs to light and a yr away and that’s why I wish Pitt had a healthy John Hugley .

Bro Hugley healthy is not a fit on this current team. His defense sucks, his screen setting sucks and he would pout if his teammates aren't looking for him all the time and ruin the chemistry by trying to be a ball hog.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Bro Hugley healthy is not a fit on this current team. His defense sucks, his screen setting sucks and he would pout if his teammates aren't looking for him all the time and ruin the chemistry by trying to be a ball hog.

The Hugley fascination was always weird to me from people since we sucked but it’s even weirder to me now that we’ve removed him from the team and we’re good.

 

[pittchagg]

People just really have an affinity for traditional post play. Even though a guy like Eric Hamilton would have been a perfectly fine big on an NCAA tournament team.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Bro Hugley healthy is not a fit on this current team. His defense sucks, his screen setting sucks and he would pout if his teammates aren't looking for him all the time and ruin the chemistry by trying to be a ball hog.

Your entitled to your opinion , let’s see how this plays out .

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

** On Saturday, February 9, 2011, the Panthers went on the road and beat #9 Villanova in the Finn on College Gamenight.

** This was absolutely one of my very favorite wins in Dixon’s tenure as head coach. Leading scorer Ashton was out with a knee, and the Panthers absolutely ground their way to a three point win while only hitting a single three point shot.

** I bring up this game because we have to go back to that season a dozen years ago to find a time when the Panthers where alone at the top of the Conference in the second week in February.

** But that’s where we are at this instant, as the Clemson and UVA results aren’t in. First place all by ourselves. Who would have ever imagined back in October we would be saying such a thing?

** Another similarity with this FSU game and the VU game is that it seemed like “grind it out” was going to be the only way the Panthers would get on a plane this day with a win.

** Shots weren’t falling, but beyond that the offense was just “off.” So much so, that our Panthers lost the lead at around the 13 minute mark.

** But alas, these Panthers are actually much different than the 2011 edition. The 2011 edition scored 57 points to beat Villanova that night. This year’s Panthers scored 34 points in the final 12 minutes to take their place at the top of the ACC.

** The 2011 Panthers were led that day in Philly by the brilliance of Brad Wannamker, who scored 21 of the Panther points that day. They were 21 of the toughest points a player can score. “Our Philly kids played like Philly kids,” Dixon said when he was interviewed right after the game, including Nasir Robinson and his 15 points in the compliment.

** The 2023 Panthers are led by a player who plays with the same toughness as Brad Wanamaker. But that’s selling him short. Jamaruius Burton is better than Brad Wannamaker. And I think Brad was really, really good.

** Around 12 minutes, the Panthers were reeling. They had lost the lead, so the leader took it back.

** During those moments, there was a TV camera shot of Jamarius. I’m not sure how much you can truly know from such glances, but Jamarius harbored an incredibly intense focus in his eyes.

** After Burton's two tough jumpers, the Panthers never lost the lead again.

** As mentioned, in Philly almost 12 years ago, that Panther team hit a single triple. Today, our Panthers hit four of them in the final 12 minutes, and each of them were huge dagger shots it seemed.

** It appears the fatal dagger was cast by Blake Hinson when his three pushed our lead to nine in the final two minutes. How many times have we seen this from Blake this year? After miss after miss from three, he finds a way to hit one near the end that matters most.

** Or how about Nike’s threes? Nike was basically pretty bad in the first half. But then he enters the game for a struggling Nelly and hits two within the space of a minute. These shots probably marked the first time during the game when Florida State wasn’t sure they could win.

** Federiko isn’t going to hit threes of course, but he’s still a game changer in his own right. He’s matching up with anyone in the league and making huge plays on the defensive end. I liked all of the talk today about him being ACC Defensive Player of the Year. Who would have ever imagined such talk in October?

** I also liked the talk about Jamarius as ACC Player of the Year. Never would have dreamed such a thing in October either.

** That’s the most reoccurring theme with this group. “Who would have imagined back in October that [fill in the blank].

** Going back to our 2011 Panther squad, we all knew that was an extremely tough and fearless group. This year’s group displays the same toughness and fearlessness.

** But the 2011 crew was nowhere near as fearless to shoot the three as this team is. It’s clear that Coach Capel wants them to keep shooting it without a conscious. This is truly a trait that just might make this team special.

** We all know with a bitter taste how the 2011 season ended. But I’m thinking a team who shoots so fearlessly might have a better chance for greater NCAA Tournament success that we had over a decade ago.

** “Who would have imagined back in October that we would make it to the Sweet 16?” I sure like the sound of that, don’t you?

That game was a blast and we were there to see it live!

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

** On Saturday, February 9, 2011, the Panthers went on the road and beat #9 Villanova in the Finn on College Gamenight.

** This was absolutely one of my very favorite wins in Dixon’s tenure as head coach. Leading scorer Ashton was out with a knee, and the Panthers absolutely ground their way to a three point win while only hitting a single three point shot.

** I bring up this game because we have to go back to that season a dozen years ago to find a time when the Panthers where alone at the top of the Conference in the second week in February.

** But that’s where we are at this instant, as the Clemson and UVA results aren’t in. First place all by ourselves. Who would have ever imagined back in October we would be saying such a thing?

** Another similarity with this FSU game and the VU game is that it seemed like “grind it out” was going to be the only way the Panthers would get on a plane this day with a win.

** Shots weren’t falling, but beyond that the offense was just “off.” So much so, that our Panthers lost the lead at around the 13 minute mark.

** But alas, these Panthers are actually much different than the 2011 edition. The 2011 edition scored 57 points to beat Villanova that night. This year’s Panthers scored 34 points in the final 12 minutes to take their place at the top of the ACC.

** The 2011 Panthers were led that day in Philly by the brilliance of Brad Wannamker, who scored 21 of the Panther points that day. They were 21 of the toughest points a player can score. “Our Philly kids played like Philly kids,” Dixon said when he was interviewed right after the game, including Nasir Robinson and his 15 points in the compliment.

** The 2023 Panthers are led by a player who plays with the same toughness as Brad Wanamaker. But that’s selling him short. Jamaruius Burton is better than Brad Wannamaker. And I think Brad was really, really good.

** Around 12 minutes, the Panthers were reeling. They had lost the lead, so the leader took it back.

** During those moments, there was a TV camera shot of Jamarius. I’m not sure how much you can truly know from such glances, but Jamarius harbored an incredibly intense focus in his eyes.

** After Burton's two tough jumpers, the Panthers never lost the lead again.

** As mentioned, in Philly almost 12 years ago, that Panther team hit a single triple. Today, our Panthers hit four of them in the final 12 minutes, and each of them were huge dagger shots it seemed.

** It appears the fatal dagger was cast by Blake Hinson when his three pushed our lead to nine in the final two minutes. How many times have we seen this from Blake this year? After miss after miss from three, he finds a way to hit one near the end that matters most.

** Or how about Nike’s threes? Nike was basically pretty bad in the first half. But then he enters the game for a struggling Nelly and hits two within the space of a minute. These shots probably marked the first time during the game when Florida State wasn’t sure they could win.

** Federiko isn’t going to hit threes of course, but he’s still a game changer in his own right. He’s matching up with anyone in the league and making huge plays on the defensive end. I liked all of the talk today about him being ACC Defensive Player of the Year. Who would have ever imagined such talk in October?

** I also liked the talk about Jamarius as ACC Player of the Year. Never would have dreamed such a thing in October either.

** That’s the most reoccurring theme with this group. “Who would have imagined back in October that [fill in the blank].

** Going back to our 2011 Panther squad, we all knew that was an extremely tough and fearless group. This year’s group displays the same toughness and fearlessness.

** But the 2011 crew was nowhere near as fearless to shoot the three as this team is. It’s clear that Coach Capel wants them to keep shooting it without a conscious. This is truly a trait that just might make this team special.

** We all know with a bitter taste how the 2011 season ended. But I’m thinking a team who shoots so fearlessly might have a better chance for greater NCAA Tournament success that we had over a decade ago.

** “Who would have imagined back in October that we would make it to the Sweet 16?” I sure like the sound of that, don’t you?

Haven’t watched the game yet, so now much to offer. I was following it as much as I could while at softball practice for my travel team.

While we could never pull away totally till the Hinson 3, it just seemed like we weren’t going to be denied.

Not sure that Burton is any better than Wanny at all, but they are both in my top 5 of Pitt players all time.

It’s great to see “happy” dribbles, to have the bubble watch back and to start thinking about where we’ll be seeded in the tourney.

 

[FlashLightningrod]

I think free throw shooting gets a little overlooked

19 of 23 today

Pitt is 26th in the country, shooting from the charity stripe at a 76.02% clip (27th is 76.01%, 25th 76.03%. Those hundredths of a percent matter lol!)

This is a dimension that really adds to the strength of the team, something even the best Howland/Dixon teams struggled with at times. It will continue to serve them very well down the stretch and in the conference tournament... and in the big dance

If the Howland/Dixon teams shot free throws like this one, we may have seen a final four or two...

 

[deepelemblues]

If the Howland/Dixon teams shot free throws like this one, we may have seen a final four or two...

very true

 

[Sam Young 23]

Definitely a team to enjoy. The season was so unexpected. Hopefully the team keeps believing and has March success. When you can shoot like Pitt can you always have a shot.

 

[DT_PITT]

When do they pick POY and
COY?

They are announced right before the ACC tournament.

 

[str61166]

I don’t think this team is “more capable” of deep run than 2011. If you simulated 100 tournaments, that team goes further more often. That was a great team that just happened to get beat. Like 2009, a play or two may have changed history.

But the great thing about the tournament is that this team has a chance to be on the other side of it. You don’t play 100 tournaments. You play one. And I’m excited to see our boys let it rip.

After the exit in 2011, I had this thought that for all those years Pitt had a top 5 seed but only made that one elite 8 and usually got eliminated by a lower seeded team… that they would eventually end up having a year where they were a 5-11 seed and they would be the ones pulling off upsets against higher seeded teams to make a run, as we’ve seen with a lot of teams over the years, including those that Pitt was victimized by (Kent, Bradley, Butler, Wichita…).

I got that glimmer of hope after their last tournament win when they blew out Colorado as a 9 seed, but that Florida team was too much. And now all these years later, maybe this can be the year. There seems to be even more parity than usual, so it wouldn’t be shocking to see a few lower seeded teams in the elite 8/final 4. Obviously won’t be easy, they’ll need to stay hot, get the right matchups and shoot lights out. But it would be something if it could be us for once.

 

[Chaos]

The competition is really high.

Coming into today, Armando Bacot is 3rd in the league in scoring and 1st in the league in rebounding. Hunter Tyson is averaging 16 and 10. Kyle Filipowski is averaging 15 and 9. Tyree Appleby leads the league in scoring AND assists. Terquavion Smith is second in the league in scoring and 5th in assists.

There are a lot of good players in the ACC. Burton is one of them.

When Justin was in the discussion for POY, the argument always was that Pitt wasn't a good team, so he couldn't win. So now Pitt has a good team, it's back to being an "any individual can win" award, regardless of the team's success?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

When Justin was in the discussion for POY, the argument always was that Pitt wasn't a good team, so he couldn't win. So now Pitt has a good team, it's back to being an "any individual can win" award, regardless of the team's success?

Well I don't have a vote, but if I had a vote team success would only be a very small component of my decision. Basically a tiebreaker if all else were equal or nearly so. I don't think you should be deciding who the Player of the Year or the MVP is based on who has the better teammates. Always seemed like a dumb way to do it to me.

But a lot of people don't agree with me. Which, of course, makes them wrong. But hey, it's a sorta free country.

 

[PittMBA]

Well I don't have a vote, but if I had a vote team success would only be a very small component of my decision. Basically a tiebreaker if all else were equal or nearly so. I don't think you should be deciding who the Player of the Year or the MVP is based on who has the better teammates. Always seemed like a dumb way to do it to me.

But a lot of people don't agree with me. Which, of course, makes them wrong. But hey, it's a sorta free country.

Watching some of the UNC / Clemson game and the announcers basically argued POY was between Bacot and Appleby- no mention of Burton.

I just don’t see how POY could go to a player on a team that finishes middle of the pack or the best player on the most under performing team in the league .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Watching some of the UNC / Clemson game and the announcers basically argued POY was between Bacot and Appleby- no mention of Burton.

I just don’t see how POY could go to a player on a team that finishes middle of the pack or the best player on the most under performing team in the league .

Well what if that player was, in fact, the player of the year?

After yesterday's games, Appleby is 1st in the league in scoring and 1st in the league in assists. Bacot is 3rd in the league in scoring and 1st in the league in rebounding. I just don't see how players with resumes like that aren't in the discussion, at the top of the discussion, for any sort of player of the year award.

What you posit is that Bacot and Appleby can't be player of the year because their teammates aren't good enough. And that doesn't make any sense to me. Player of the Year isn't Player of the Year Who Has Good Enough Teammates. Or at least it's not supposed to be.

 

[Vader_Storm]

When Justin was in the discussion for POY, the argument always was that Pitt wasn't a good team, so he couldn't win. So now Pitt has a good team, it's back to being an "any individual can win" award, regardless of the team's success?

Filipowski is not going to win the award with a 41.9 % shooting percentage as a 7 footer with an ORTG rating barely over 100 while also averaging almost 3 turnovers per game. He was also a complete no show against Virginia while his team sits in 7th place in the acc, he's done.


Smith for NC State is a volume player with a shooting percentage of 38% and a 3 point percentage of 34%. He also doesn't rebound, he's not winning the award either.


I think Appleby from Wake Forest has a very legit case as he is carrying that team on his back. His problem is, Wake Forest is on the outside looking in for the NCAA Tournament. If that case is used against Champagnie, it should be used to a degree against him. Also, his record against Q1 is 1-5.


I think Tyson for Clemson should be the frontrunner at this point with all due respect to Burton and everyone else. Not only are his stats great, his efficiency is through the roof great for the numbers he is putting up. I think that is the case as of today. Should Clemson collapse to finish the season or not finish strong, then he potentially wouldn't be deserving. He has carried that team with all their injuries just as Burton has carried us. The difference is, his efficiency is better. Although Burton is the better defender and I understand that case too. If Pitt wins the ACC regular season and Burton is a big reason why, Ill flip this to Burton.


I would understand the case for Bacot because of his numbers. But I don't feel Bacot has put his UNC team on his back like Burton, Tyson, or Appleby has. On top of that, his record against Q1 is 1-8 which is a disgrace for a NCAA Tournament team. With a record that poor against good teams, it should almost disqualify him from the award.


Wong simply isnt as good as Burton as a complete player on offense and defense. That, and Burton completely owned him 1 on 1 to win the last game head to head.

So, if it was me, as of today,

Tyson, Burton, Appleby in that order as of today.

 

[gary2]

Filipowski is not going to win the award with a 41.9 % shooting percentage as a 7 footer with an ORTG rating barely over 100 while also averaging almost 3 turnovers per game. He was also a complete no show against Virginia while his team sits in 7th place in the acc, he's done.


Smith for NC State is a volume player with a shooting percentage of 38% and a 3 point percentage of 34%. He also doesn't rebound, he's not winning the award either.


I think Appleby from Wake Forest has a very legit case as he is carrying that team on his back. His problem is, Wake Forest is on the outside looking in for the NCAA Tournament. If that case is used against Champagnie, it should be used to a degree against him. Also, his record against Q1 is 1-5.


I think Tyson for Clemson should be the frontrunner at this point with all due respect to Burton and everyone else. Not only are his stats great, his efficiency is through the roof great for the numbers he is putting up. I think that is the case as of today. Should Clemson collapse to finish the season or not finish strong, then he potentially wouldn't be deserving. He has carried that team with all their injuries just as Burton has carried us. The difference is, his efficiency is better. Although Burton is the better defender and I understand that case too. If Pitt wins the ACC regular season and Burton is a big reason why, Ill flip this to Burton.


I would understand the case for Bacot because of his numbers. But I don't feel Bacot has put his UNC team on his back like Burton, Tyson, or Appleby has. On top of that, his record against Q1 is 1-8 which is a disgrace for a NCAA Tournament team. With a record that poor against good teams, it should almost disqualify him from the award.


Wong simply isnt as good as Burton as a complete player on offense and defense. That, and Burton completely owned him 1 on 1 to win the last game head to head.

So, if it was me, as of today,

Tyson, Burton, Appleby in that order as of today.

Strictly my opinion:

Despite all his stats, watching Bacot, I get the impression he is not performing as well as he could.

One should not feel that way about the POY.

 

[Atlanta Panther]

To me a lot depends on what the POY is supposed to be: the BEST player in the league or the Most Valuable Player to his team. Appleby or Bacot is probably the winner in the best player category but I would think that Burton is the MVP cause without him Pitt would be way down in the standings and not currently leading the league.

As an aside, I think Bacot does not appear to be doing as well as he could be but I think that his teammates are playing more "Look at Me" basketball and do not play through him as much because they want to polish their resume's for the upcoming NBA draft. Remember that a center like him needs teammates around him to pass him the ball which his teammates are not doing as much as they should.

 

[deepelemblues]

I've never thought POY should be unofficially restricted to players on good teams. The POY should be the best player. That could be a player on the best team, or the worst team, or any team in between. Basketball certainly is a sport where individual accomplishments can be made at an elite level even if the player making them is on a bad team

 

[Duneaux Harm]

The difference is also in the style of play. Teams under the good Dixon years didn't take many bad shots. They knew how to play in that system and they respected the process of waiting and learning. By the time they got significant PT they knew what was a good shot and what wasn't. Until guys like JJ Moore and Duran Johnson came along.

I would argue they feared taking a bad shot for the subsequent consequences. I would rather a team be fearless than fearful. I truly feel that is why we struggled with our seed vs our result under Jamie. This team feels like it will over achieve on whatever seed they draw.

 

[PittPoker]

I would argue they feared taking a bad shot for the subsequent consequences. I would rather a team be fearless than fearful. I truly feel that is why we struggled with our seed vs our result under Jamie. This team feels like it will over achieve on whatever seed they draw.

What really imo helps this team is the fact that they have come back from numerous double digit deficits, including some in the second half of games to win outright. So come NCAA Tournament time if they find themselves down big early or even later in the game, they know they can comeback and win. To me the experience they gained from all those come from behind wins has been invaluable.

 

[NTOP]

Here's a big difference between Dixon in 2011 and Capel in 2023.

If Pitt took a bad shot and missed - Dixon would yank the guy.

Capel lets them shoot out of it.

Btw, I was in D.C for that horrible game against Butler in 2011 - I think I said two words to Mrs. NC Panther on the way back to NC.

F and F.

You weren't alone with that one.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I've never thought POY should be unofficially restricted to players on good teams. The POY should be the best player. That could be a player on the best team, or the worst team, or any team in between. Basketball certainly is a sport where individual accomplishments can be made at an elite level even if the player making them is on a bad team

Exactly. The best player IS the most valuable. To argue that the player of the year or the MVP has to come from a good team or the best team means that you think that how good a player's teammates are is what determines how good the player is. And that's just dumb.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Exactly. The best player IS the most valuable. To argue that the player of the year or the MVP has to come from a good team or the best team means that you think that how good a player's teammates are is what determines how good the player is. And that's just dumb.

I think the opposite with regards to this. I think the team needs to be good, at least respectable. Great players are not always great leaders and MVP worthy. An MVP of the league should be a great leader for his team. When Champ was here, he was a great player. Does anyone view him as a great leader / team captain at Pitt like Knight or Fields or Krauser or Wanamaker? I don't. He was a great player that put up great stats. He helped make our team better, but I don't think he helped make other individual players better on our team for better team success.

I think Burton is considerably more valuable to Pitt this year than Champ ever was at Pitt. Was Champs offensive and rebounding stats better, sure. But stats aren't the be all end all for most valuable player.

I dont like how they do it in college football however. It always seems the Heisman winners are coming from a playoff team, although I barely watch football so maybe Im wrong here. It just seems that way that to win the Heisman, you have to be on an elite team in college football.

I think the team at least needs to be respectable, able to beat quality teams, and the mvp in some way makes the rest of the individual players on that team better while putting the team on his back. That to me is a player like Burton, Tyson, or Appleby. That's simply my opinion, however.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think Burton is considerably more valuable to Pitt this year than Champ ever was at Pitt. Was Champs offensive and rebounding stats better, sure. But stats aren't the be all end all for most valuable player.

Stats aren't the be all and end all. If they were, the guy who is first in the league in both scoring and assists would be the unanimous choice.