Hockey feasibility study

[Sean Miller Fan]

http://www.themackreport.com/college-hockey/four-nhl-college-hockey-feasibility-studies-underway/

Little update. Illinois, Oakland, and 2 more schools are doing feasibility studies paid for by the NCAA. The other 2 are doing so confidentially and that rumor from the summer suggests one may be Pitt. The fact that they are confidential probably makes it more likely that its Pitt since they seem to be very secretive

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Would Pitt also have to add a womens sport and /or drop something?
Could they play at the Pete?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Would Pitt also have to add a womens sport and /or drop something?
Could they play at the Pete?

Hockey at the Pete? I mean theoretically if they did maybe $10 million-$20 million or so in reconfigurations but they wont and shouldn't do that.

I would think Pitt would have to add a women's sport. Paco has mentioned rowing forever. I'd be more in favor of women's lacrosse or women's rugby which has 9 D1 NCAA teams, inotherwords, something that a fan can go to or watch on ACCN

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I guess if Pens are involved, then Cranberry?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I guess if Pens are involved, then Cranberry?

I'd think they'd play at PPG Paints Arena. Curtain off the upper deck, though maybe they could play in Cranberry if there were scheduling issues.

I'm not really understanding what Pitt hockey does for the NHL or the Penguins.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Officially-
'In an effort to support the growth of collegiate hockey, the NHLPA and NHL will fund feasibility studies exploring the potential of adding NCAA Division I men’s and women’s hockey programs at five institutions across the United States.'
https://www.nhlpa.com/news/1-11701/nhlpa-and-nhl-announce-ncaa-feasibility-study

 

[Pitt79]

Pitt has a club team. I think they play where RMU plays.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Pitt has to have a legit hockey team, just because they would have the sweetest unis in the NCAA.

 

[21Guns.]

I'd think they'd play at PPG Paints Arena. Curtain off the upper deck, though maybe they could play in Cranberry if there were scheduling issues.

I'm not really understanding what Pitt hockey does for the NHL or the Penguins.

I just can't see the arena giving up that many prime dates for events that will draw a few thousand fans. That would be 12 weekends since game are played Friday/Saturday or sometimes Friday Sunday. On top of that you have conference tournaments which would require blocking off the arena for several additional weekends in March. I could see Pitt playing a handful of games there but most would be played elsewhere.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I think cranberry would work to start. Everything in place there.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I'd think they'd play at PPG Paints Arena. Curtain off the upper deck, though maybe they could play in Cranberry if there were scheduling issues.

I'm not really understanding what Pitt hockey does for the NHL or the Penguins.

I just can't see the arena giving up that many prime dates for events that will draw a few thousand fans. That would be 12 weekends since game are played Friday/Saturday or sometimes Friday Sunday. On top of that you have conference tournaments which would require blocking off the arena for several additional weekends in March. I could see Pitt playing a handful of games there but most would be played elsewhere.

PPG would absolutely love to book more dates. Heck, they have RMU basketball playing there for 1.5 seasons. I was at a game this year and there couldn't have been more than 500 people there. Yes, Pitt hockey will have some terribly attended games but entrance into the Big Ten hockey league would be a possibility and I could see 5K-6K showing up for some of those games which is way more than come to the arena for any 1 of those 10 Disney on Ice sessions that we go to.

PPG isnt the issue. They'd schedule the Pitt games around the Pens. The bigger question would be how much it would cost Pitt to rent it.

I believe the NHL sees the unbelievable fanbase that the Penguins have and feel that the city also needs a college hockey team that can piggyback on that. I just dont see how it could be viable unless someone donated $20 million or so

 

[Pitt79]

PPG would absolutely love to book more dates. Heck, they have RMU basketball playing there for 1.5 seasons. I was at a game this year and there couldn't have been more than 500 people there. Yes, Pitt hockey will have some terribly attended games but entrance into the Big Ten hockey league would be a possibility and I could see 5K-6K showing up for some of those games which is way more than come to the arena for any 1 of those 10 Disney on Ice sessions that we go to.

PPG isnt the issue. They'd schedule the Pitt games around the Pens. The bigger question would be how much it would cost Pitt to rent it.

I believe the NHL sees the unbelievable fanbase that the Penguins have and feel that the city also needs a college hockey team that can piggyback on that. I just dont see how it could be viable unless someone donated $20 million or so

So would we start whining about tarping the seats?

And the B1G? How many ACC schools play hockey? BC does, I doubt anyone else. What are their choices for a league?

What league is RMU in? Or would Pitt be stupid enough to think that a superior hockey school like RMU is beneath them? The city has a college hockey team.

How about partner somehow with the Pens? Encourage Pens fans to be Pitt hockey fans too?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So would we start whining about tarping the seats?

And the B1G? How many ACC schools play hockey? BC does, I doubt anyone else. What are their choices for a league?

What league is RMU in? Or would Pitt be stupid enough to think that a superior hockey school like RMU is beneath them? The city has a college hockey team.

How about partner somehow with the Pens? Encourage Pens fans to be Pitt hockey fans too?

Yeah hockey leagues in the NCAA are completely different than the other sports. Only the Big 10 has a defined league with PSU, OSU, the 2 Michigan schools, Minnesota, Wisconsin and.....NOTRE DAME.

What would make the most sense for Pitt is Atlantic Hockey which has Robert Morris and Mercyhurst (which is smaller than RMU) has been an established top 20 program in Erie for a decade. Hockey East and the ECAC are well established.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Would Pitt also have to add a womens sport and /or drop something?
Could they play at the Pete?

They could add women's ice hockey.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/icehockey-women/nc/ncaa-nc-womens-hockey-rpi

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So would we start whining about tarping the seats?

And the B1G? How many ACC schools play hockey? BC does, I doubt anyone else. What are their choices for a league?

What league is RMU in? Or would Pitt be stupid enough to think that a superior hockey school like RMU is beneath them? The city has a college hockey team.

How about partner somehow with the Pens? Encourage Pens fans to be Pitt hockey fans too?

Yeah hockey leagues in the NCAA are completely different than the other sports. Only the Big 10 has a defined league with PSU, OSU, the 2 Michigan schools, Minnesota, Wisconsin and.....NOTRE DAME.

What would make the most sense for Pitt is Atlantic Hockey which has Robert Morris and Mercyhurst (which is smaller than RMU) has been an established top 20 program in Erie for a decade. Hockey East and the ECAC are well established.

My guess is that Pitt may not even consider this unless entrance into the Big Ten or Hockey East was assured. RMU's league is mid-major and even though some of those programs are pretty good, Mercyhurst or Bentley coming to PPG doesn't move the needle like Mich, Wis, etc.

For Pitt79:

The only ACC schools that play hockey are BC and ND. BC is in the Hockey East and ND is in the Big Ten. There is a chance Syracuse may be doing a feasibility study also. I cant believe they dont have hockey as I think it would thrive there. If Pitt and Syracuse got hockey, I would start a hockey league if I was the ACC:

Pitt
Syr
ND
BC
the 6 Ivy League schools
maybe UConn, Prov, BU?

More programming for ACCN

 

[Pitt79]

Surprising 'Cuse doesn't play hockey? I'm sure you could easily set up the Carrier Dome for that. I think also they have an AHL team there for years, so I'm sure, in a northern city, hockey is popular there.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Surprising 'Cuse doesn't play hockey? I'm sure you could easily set up the Carrier Dome for that. I think also they have an AHL team there for years, so I'm sure, in a northern city, hockey is popular there.

They couldn't put a rink in the Carrier Dome for an extended time. Maybe for a special game.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Still hard to envision Pitt adding a sport(s) without dropping something.

 

[Pitt79]

They couldn't put a rink in the Carrier Dome for an extended time. Maybe for a special game.

Why not? the space is there, it's a football field after all.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They couldn't put a rink in the Carrier Dome for an extended time. Maybe for a special game.

Why not? the space is there, it's a football field after all.

How would you switch out a basketball court and hockey rink every few days? Even if they put the rink in the opposite endzone, I doubt the technology exists to keep that endzone cool enough for the ice but keeping the basketball section warm enough

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Still hard to envision Pitt adding a sport(s) without dropping something.

Regardless of whether they do hockey or not, they should cut Track & Field. No facility, not a TV sport, easy decision

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

or Tennis?

 

[Pitt79]

How would you switch out a basketball court and hockey rink every few days? Even if they put the rink in the opposite endzone, I doubt the technology exists to keep that endzone cool enough for the ice but keeping the basketball section warm enough

That's above my pay grade? Don't they do that everywhere hockey and basketball share an arena?

 

[21Guns.]

PPG would absolutely love to book more dates. Heck, they have RMU basketball playing there for 1.5 seasons. I was at a game this year and there couldn't have been more than 500 people there. Yes, Pitt hockey will have some terribly attended games but entrance into the Big Ten hockey league would be a possibility and I could see 5K-6K showing up for some of those games which is way more than come to the arena for any 1 of those 10 Disney on Ice sessions that we go to.

PPG isnt the issue. They'd schedule the Pitt games around the Pens. The bigger question would be how much it would cost Pitt to rent it.

I believe the NHL sees the unbelievable fanbase that the Penguins have and feel that the city also needs a college hockey team that can piggyback on that. I just dont see how it could be viable unless someone donated $20 million or so

They are not going to get into the Big Ten for hockey. The only reason ND was allowed in is because they had their own TV deal with NBC.

Pitt needs some kind of donation because they need an on campus facility even if PPG is an option. You can’t practice there and having to drive 25 minutes to practice will kill recruiting especially when you don’t even have your own locker room in the place.

 

[rmf05]

I think you need 6 teams to have a hockey league per NCAA rules. Pitt-Cuse would be great.

I still don't understand why the NHL would push this in established NHL markets. I would think they would go after target markets for future expansion.

Carrier Dome would be easy the modern synthetic ice holds up easily in temps into the mid-70's. The Pete lacks the dimensions and structure to add the weight of a rink.

 

[21Guns.]

I think you need 6 teams to have a hockey league per NCAA rules. Pitt-Cuse would be great.

I still don't understand why the NHL would push this in established NHL markets. I would think they would go after target markets for future expansion.

Carrier Dome would be easy the modern synthetic ice holds up easily in temps into the mid-70's. The Pete lacks the dimensions and structure to add the weight of a rink.

Where would Syracuse play their early season hockey games? College Hockey starts the first week of October. Where would they move lacrosse games? Lacrosse season starts in February and hockey season doesn’t end until mid March. It not feasible to be constantly tearing down and rebuilding and ice rink.


More realistic would be playing in the Oncenter. They do have an on campus rink so they could at least practice there.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

PPG would absolutely love to book more dates. Heck, they have RMU basketball playing there for 1.5 seasons. I was at a game this year and there couldn't have been more than 500 people there. Yes, Pitt hockey will have some terribly attended games but entrance into the Big Ten hockey league would be a possibility and I could see 5K-6K showing up for some of those games which is way more than come to the arena for any 1 of those 10 Disney on Ice sessions that we go to.

PPG isnt the issue. They'd schedule the Pitt games around the Pens. The bigger question would be how much it would cost Pitt to rent it.

I believe the NHL sees the unbelievable fanbase that the Penguins have and feel that the city also needs a college hockey team that can piggyback on that. I just dont see how it could be viable unless someone donated $20 million or so

They are not going to get into the Big Ten for hockey. The only reason ND was allowed in is because they had their own TV deal with NBC.

Pitt needs some kind of donation because they need an on campus facility even if PPG is an option. You can’t practice there and having to drive 25 minutes to practice will kill recruiting especially when you don’t even have your own locker room in the place.

NBC had little to do with ND getting into Big Ten hockey. They let them in for the same reason they let Johns Hopkins in their lacrosse league.....they are a great program, elite school, and they need more teams.

Pitt is not going to have an on-campus facility. They'd practice at PPG in the afternoon. The Pens rarely practice during the season.

 

[21Guns.]

NBC had little to do with ND getting into Big Ten hockey. They let them in for the same reason they let Johns Hopkins in their lacrosse league.....they are a great program, elite school, and they need more teams.

Pitt is not going to have an on-campus facility. They'd practice at PPG in the afternoon. The Pens rarely practice during the season.

Hopkins had a deal with ESPN. Both schools had pre-existing television deals which allow the Big Ten to get air time on other outlets and doesn’t require the BTN to give up air time to a non member school. All Hopkins home games are show on an ESPN network and all Notre Dame home games are shown on an NBC network. On top of that both programs bring an established following in the sport. Pitt hockey is not going to bring that to the table. The BIG doesn’t need any more members what would make Pitt so attractive?

Where is Pitt going to practice when a concert or concert or other event is in town? There is a reason why the Penguins don’t practice there. It because the ice time is not consistently available. I am also willing to bet renting the arena ice time is not going to be cheap.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Pitt is likely one of the ones doing a feasibility study. It is being paid for, there is no reason not to do it especially if they had a chance to take advantage of it.

I doubt they'll conclude it is a good idea unless they have some people (or organizations like the Pens) ready to put a lot of their own money into it. And perhaps they do because that has been alluded to. They wouldn't necessarily have to build a venue so that is an advantage to starting one over a place like PSU that required record donations to get it going. However, it would be a program that could not be expected to make any money. With the ACC Network coming on line, honestly, I don't know how it makes sense to add a non-conference sport.

It also would seem to only make sense if they were able to get some guarantee into a power conference like HockeyEast, if not immediately, then in the future. Notre Dame left an open spot for a 12th, but Pitt would still be a regional outlier, so I'm not entirely sure that even makes sense. It didn't for Notre Dame. The Big Ten doesn't need Pitt, but it only has 7 members currently. That would be intriguing because you'd have two instant rivals with PSU and ND. And the Pittsburgh region just doesn't know enough about college hockey to get as excited about Northeastern or BU.

The ACC needs four teams to sponsor a championship. No way is BC ever leaving HockeyEast for an ACC with ND, and a hypothetical Pitt and Syracuse. I could see the ACC sponsoring a non-bid earning "championship" of some sort, perhaps in the form of early season tournament format with those four teams and putting it on the Network, but it is never going to be the primary hockey conference for these schools.

I would have to think in a hypothetical scenario that Pitt would play at PPG, and practice there or at one of the other ice venues in the city. They certainly wouldn't be dropping any existing sports, particularly ACC sponsored ones. They would likely add women's hockey, or another women's sport like rowing or lax. Anything that demands more use of Oakland athletic facility resources is problematic though.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Could play and practice at cranberry which has locker rooms and probably best fit to start would be Atlantic. But then with above is it really worth it all.

 

[21Guns.]

Could play and practice at cranberry which has locker rooms and probably best fit to start would be Atlantic. But then with above is it really worth it all.

It is a matter of do you want to field a team or compete. Imagine trying to recruit and telling players you have to ride a bus for almost an hour a day to practice and back. Telling them that they practice at 5 am because Disney on ice is in town and the arena is not available. At minimum you need an on campus practice faculty where you get priority ice time.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Could play and practice at cranberry which has locker rooms and probably best fit to start would be Atlantic. But then with above is it really worth it all.

Pitt isn’t going to start a program to play in RMU and Mercyhurst's league. It would have to be Hockey East, Big Ten, or a new ACC league. With the new network and national exposure, I could see the ACC starting their own league and pulling in some Hockey East and ECAC programs. Heck, the 6 Ivy League schools that play hockey are in the ECAC. Most have good hockey programs. You could add them along with say, a BU and have one of the best hockey leagues in the country and it gives you airtime to fill

 

[21Guns.]

Pitt isn’t going to start a program to play in RMU and Mercyhurst's league. It would have to be Hockey East, Big Ten, or a new ACC league. With the new network and national exposure, I could see the ACC starting their own league and pulling in some Hockey East and ECAC programs. Heck, the 6 Ivy League schools that play hockey are in the ECAC. Most have good hockey programs. You could add them along with say, a BU and have one of the best hockey leagues in the country and it gives you airtime to fill

Why in the world would the ACC want to show a Boston U vs Norteastern hockey game? If they are going to start a hockey league they will need at least 6 ACC schools.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt isn’t going to start a program to play in RMU and Mercyhurst's league. It would have to be Hockey East, Big Ten, or a new ACC league. With the new network and national exposure, I could see the ACC starting their own league and pulling in some Hockey East and ECAC programs. Heck, the 6 Ivy League schools that play hockey are in the ECAC. Most have good hockey programs. You could add them along with say, a BU and have one of the best hockey leagues in the country and it gives you airtime to fill

Why in the world would the ACC want to show a Boston U vs Norteastern hockey game? If they are going to start a hockey league they will need at least 6 ACC schools.

Because people in Boston will watch it and it beats showing a replay of a 2012 FSU football game.

If Pitt starts a program, they could get to 6 by adding ND, BC, and 3 non-ACC schools. They dont need 6 all-sports ACC members.

It would be like when Big East football first started, it was 4 Big East schools (Pitt, Miami, Syr, BC). To get to 8, they added 3 A10 schools (WVU, RU, Temple) as football-only, and VT from the Metro as a football-only

 

[21Guns.]

Because people in Boston will watch it and it beats showing a replay of a 2012 FSU football game.

If Pitt starts a program, they could get to 6 by adding ND, BC, and 3 non-ACC schools. They dont need 6 all-sports ACC members.

It would be like when Big East football first started, it was 4 Big East schools (Pitt, Miami, Syr, BC). To get to 8, they added 3 A10 schools (WVU, RU, Temple) as football-only, and VT from the Metro as a football-only

If the ACC network doesn’t have anything to televise live on a Friday night, Saturday or Sunday in winter it is going to be a massive failure. You are telling me with a 15 team conference there not a single men’s or women’s basketball game, wrestling match or other sport?

Take this weekend:
Friday there is 15 Home ACC event
Saturday there is 29 Home ACC events
Sunday there is 29 Homes ACC events

So how do you tell the 11 other ACC schools we have nothing to show so instead of showing any of these we are going to show a Boston U vs Northeastern hockey game.

 

[DiehardPanther]

If the ACC network doesn’t have anything to televise live on a Friday night, Saturday or Sunday in winter it is going to be a massive failure. You are telling me with a 15 team conference there not a single men’s or women’s basketball game, wrestling match or other sport?

Take this weekend:
Friday there is 15 Home ACC event
Saturday there is 29 Home ACC events
Sunday there is 29 Homes ACC events

So how do you tell the 11 other ACC schools we have nothing to show so instead of showing any of these we are going to show a Boston U vs Northeastern hockey game.

Why are you so concerned? You are a PS fan.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Why are you so concerned? You are a PS fan.

Well, he's absolutely right. The ACC Network is not going to broadcast hockey games, or HockeyEast games, nor is it going to form a hockey conference, nor is anyone leaving HockeyEast or Big Ten hockey to join it. The only thing I could see is the remote hypothetical I mentioned above where it put on its own mini-tournament for ACC teams with hockey programs that play in other conferences, but that would be a non-factor one-off event and unlikely in any scenario.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Holy crap, you guys are thinking way to far ahead and getting far to irritated. Not even sure Pitt is one of them.

 

[CrazyPaco]

FWIW, Illinois released their hockey feasibility study. I have to say, I'm not terribly impressed with the depth of the study. It lacks a scientific approach and seems more like a position paper with the intent to support a college hockey endeavor there:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/fightingillini.com/documents/2018/3/8/hockeyreport_022718.pdf

 

[burnie1105]

That's above my pay grade? Don't they do that everywhere hockey and basketball share an arena?

They do it because those arenas have the physical plant in place to make and maintain ice; arenas built to have rinks have gigantic cooling systems in the floor. The Carrier Dome doesn't have that, and couldn't since it is a turf field (otherwise they'd have to tear up the turf every year before hockey/basketball season and replace it afterwards). The only way they could do it is by getting a portable system like the one the NHL uses for outdoor games, which is crazy expensive and not ideal. If Syracuse was going to have a DI mens team, they'd just expand the rink where their womens team plays (which holds a couple hundred) or play downtown where the Crunch play.