Interesting Interview with former Big 10 Commish Delaney

[Hailpitt]

The Athletic interviewed Delaney about the changing college football landscape. Below is an interesting question and Delaney’s response which indicates the Big East blew it big time:
The Big East was lucrative in the early 1980s and had to fend off an attempt from then Penn State football coach/athletic director Joe Paterno to pick off Boston College and Syracuse to form an all-sports Eastern league involving Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and the Nittany Lions. Gavitt secured Syracuse and Boston College by inviting Pittsburgh on Nov. 18, 1981. It killed Paterno’s attempt.

The next year, Penn State sought admission into the Big East. Six of the eight Big East members had to vote yes on Penn State. Basketball-only schools Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova voted no, which kept Penn State out. Its ripple effect was profound when Penn State was accepted as a Big Ten member in 1990.

Delany: If Penn State is with Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College … the East Coast is stabilized, and the Big Ten doesn’t have many places to move. So you have a more formidable, a more stable Big East. But in my view, that inability to see that future and the importance of football made the Big East very vulnerable.

Notre Dame doesn’t ever move. Florida State doesn’t move in my view if Penn State doesn’t move. The SEC was already good with their little move (Arkansas and South Carolina). And Florida State is not going to be pursued by the ACC. I’m saying none of that happens if the Big East expands properly to eight football schools and 12 basketball schools. But their rationale was, that’s too many schools. Eight and 12. Isn’t that kind of quaint?

It would have changed history probably in the sense that if the East were consolidated with football, and you had Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Penn State, maybe West Virginia, and they had full basketball schools, the Big East publics, plus the Catholics plus Penn State and few others, arguably there would have been no vacuum there.

 

[pittchagg]

I feel like Penn State still probably would have left for the Big Ten, it might just not have happened until a few years later than it did. I think Delany isn’t being wholly truthful if he’s saying, “oh, us at the Big Ten would have just stopped forever and not eventually expanded eastward to include Penn State if they were in the Big East at the time instead of being independent.”

Edit: and I think Delany’s being a little more dishonest when you consider that this 1981/1982 Big East timeframe was before the Supreme Court’s NCAA v. Oklahoma case in 1984. Conference realignment in that era was a direct result of the television contracts opening up after the 1984 case. The TV money is what changed the college conference landscape, and that wasn’t on the table when Penn State was trying to join the Big East. They would have just left the Big East.

 

[NTOP]

The Athletic interviewed Delaney about the changing college football landscape. Below is an interesting question and Delaney’s response which indicates the Big East blew it big time:
The Big East was lucrative in the early 1980s and had to fend off an attempt from then Penn State football coach/athletic director Joe Paterno to pick off Boston College and Syracuse to form an all-sports Eastern league involving Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and the Nittany Lions. Gavitt secured Syracuse and Boston College by inviting Pittsburgh on Nov. 18, 1981. It killed Paterno’s attempt.

The next year, Penn State sought admission into the Big East. Six of the eight Big East members had to vote yes on Penn State. Basketball-only schools Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova voted no, which kept Penn State out. Its ripple effect was profound when Penn State was accepted as a Big Ten member in 1990.

Delany: If Penn State is with Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College … the East Coast is stabilized, and the Big Ten doesn’t have many places to move. So you have a more formidable, a more stable Big East. But in my view, that inability to see that future and the importance of football made the Big East very vulnerable.

Notre Dame doesn’t ever move. Florida State doesn’t move in my view if Penn State doesn’t move. The SEC was already good with their little move (Arkansas and South Carolina). And Florida State is not going to be pursued by the ACC. I’m saying none of that happens if the Big East expands properly to eight football schools and 12 basketball schools. But their rationale was, that’s too many schools. Eight and 12. Isn’t that kind of quaint?

It would have changed history probably in the sense that if the East were consolidated with football, and you had Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Penn State, maybe West Virginia, and they had full basketball schools, the Big East publics, plus the Catholics plus Penn State and few others, arguably there would have been no vacuum there.

Counting bizarre?? Only 6 FB schools after saying 8 were needed!! Temple?? MD?? wvu??
Hoops was more powerful than FB in that league......was the best hoops conference for years. psu ruined any chance by demanding that FB $$$ wouldn't be shared.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

He's right and wrong. And the play to be made was in the late 80's, PSU, Pitt, VT,FSU, WVU, Miami, Syracuse, BC form the Eastern league and then poach Maryland and say Clemson

 

[Upg bobcat]

I feel like Penn State still probably would have left for the Big Ten, it might just not have happened until a few years later than it did. I think Delany isn’t being wholly truthful if he’s saying, “oh, us at the Big Ten would have just stopped forever and not eventually expanded eastward to include Penn State if they were in the Big East at the time instead of being independent.”

Edit: and I think Delany’s being a little more dishonest when you consider that this 1981/1982 Big East timeframe was before the Supreme Court’s NCAA v. Oklahoma case in 1984. Conference realignment in that era was a direct result of the television contracts opening up after the 1984 case. The TV money is what changed the college conference landscape, and that wasn’t on the table when Penn State was trying to join the Big East. They would have just left the Big East.

I agree. This idea that it would have "stabilized" the Big East -- conference realignment comes down to dollars. PSU in Big East football would have helped, but I still think it would have been a less lucrative football conference than the Big 10 and SEC. The pressure still would have existed for the Big 10 to go after PSU and vice versa. The ACC was "stable" -- did that stop the Big 10 from poaching Maryland?

I also don't get the logic of saying that if PSU went to the Big East, that means FSU would have remained independent. Huh? Maybe if PSU remained independent FSU would have remained independent, I could maybe understand that. As we saw, the ACC expanded, eventually, not only in the 90s by adding FSU but then in the 00s by adding Miami and VT and BC. It definitely would have wanted FSU at some point.

 

[rmf05]

If 1980's Pitt, PSU, FSU, Miami and WVU would've been in the same conference, The Big East would've been owning the national championship game for 20 years even moreso than the SEC has these past 20. The Big East would've been like the SEC but with better BB and bigger markets. Who knows?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

If 1980's Pitt, PSU, FSU, Miami and WVU would've been in the same conference, The Big East would've been owning the national championship game for 20 years even moreso than the SEC has these past 20. The Big East would've been like the SEC but with better BB and bigger markets. Who knows?

Here's the issue on all of this. As the money grew..................the gaps grew. The Pirates payroll was equal to the Yankees and Dodgers most of the 70's and 80's. But in the 90's is when it really exploded.

Same would have happened. Same poaching. Same money based decisions. Maybe Pitt was in a better place, but they had basic retards (sorry can't think of a better word) running the AD and even the U when alot of this started going down.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Put blew it in the early 80s by deemphasizing football. It could/should have been Pitt in the Big Ten in the early 90s instead of (perhaps with) Penn State. Our pooch is still screwed by the moronic decisions of the 80s and 90s (actually, by those in the 1930s, originally).

 

[NTOP]

If 1980's Pitt, PSU, FSU, Miami and WVU would've been in the same conference, The Big East would've been owning the national championship game for 20 years even moreso than the SEC has these past 20. The Big East would've been like the SEC but with better BB and bigger markets. Who knows?

Not a chance to go that south,,,,and psu wanted control of FB. Paterno killed the deal after the BE rejected it. He was AD at that time, thought he was boss.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I love it when this discussion comes up; I think it’s the most consequential what-if in realignment because it would’ve changed everything. Let’s say Paterno’s eastern conference came to fruition and they were able to put together the eight/nine best independents on the east coast:

- Boston College
- Florida State
- Miami
- Penn State
- Pittsburgh
- South Carolina (the school everyone is forgetting about)
- Syracuse
- Virginia Tech
- West Virginia

I think that conference would be in position to poach schools from the ACC. You could target Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Maryland first (who were rumored to be considered by Paterno for his eastern conference in the first place). That’d put you at 12 schools and in line to be the first conference to have a championship game.

Down the line, does this conference go for the kill and add Duke/NCST/UNC/UVA as well to get to 16 and become the first “super conference?” Are they able to go after any schools in the SEC? Notre Dame even? Lots of hypotheticals to consider.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Put blew it in the early 80s by deemphasizing football. It could/should have been Pitt in the Big Ten in the early 90s instead of (perhaps with) Penn State. Our pooch is still screwed by the moronic decisions of the 80s and 90s (actually, by those in the 1930s, originally).

It’s actually quite impressive that we are where we are today with how many times the football programs was on life support. Most programs didn’t survive such events and ended up in 1-AA.

 

[pittdan77]

The part about the Joe's "visionary" Eastern Conference that always gets ignored is that Paterno didn't want to join the Big East because he wanted to dictate the terms of how a conference was organized and run. The unbalanced home schedule was a part of that. Thus, his brilliant invention. By the time they did apply, many bridges had been burned and he knew being rejected would provide ample justification to go to the B1G. The fan base was happily throwing everyone in the east under the bus, especially Pitt, on the way out the door.

 

[PittMan 72]

The part about the Joe's "visionary" Eastern Conference that always gets ignored is that Paterno didn't want to join the Big East because he wanted to dictate the terms of how a conference was organized and run. The unbalanced home schedule was a part of that. Thus, his brilliant invention. By the time they did apply, many bridges had been burned and he knew being rejected would provide ample justification to go to the B1G. The fan base was happily throwing everyone in the east under the bus, especially Pitt, on the way out the door.

Sure, an all-sports Eastern conference could have been great. Would it have survived all of the conference changes we’ve seen? We’ll never know.

But, the devil is ALWAYS in the details. The “magnanimous” Joe (who called ALL the shots athletically for the nits) demanded a skewed revenue sharing plan: no revenue sharing for football; equal revenue sharing for basketball.

Joe, of course, wanted to keep all of his football $$$ for himself and the nits. But he wanted all the other member schools to share their basketball $$$ to prop up the nits pathetic hoops program. What a guy!

 

[pittdan77]

Sure, an all-sports Eastern conference could have been great. Would it have survived all of the conference changes we’ve seen? We’ll never know.

It wouldn't. The only way it was happening was if PSU got a very Texas like deal to split the money with the rest of the conference and it would have eventually caused a lot of displeasure (see the Big12).

I do think Joe can be credited with envisioning how TV revenue was going to become a big factor but I'm also certain he was stacking the deck in his favor either way. I don't fault him for that because he obviously had the leverage but it probably would have put the rest of the eastern schools in a really bad place by the time we got here.

 

[PittMan 72]

It wouldn't. The only way it was happening was if PSU got a very Texas like deal to split the money with the rest of the conference and it would have eventually caused a lot of displeasure (see the Big12).

I do think Joe can be credited with envisioning how TV revenue was going to become a big factor but I'm also certain he was stacking the deck in his favor either way. I don't fault him for that because he obviously had the leverage but it probably would have put the rest of the eastern schools in a really bad place by the time we got here.

Yeah, I don’t think it wold have survived intact, either.

Joe took a stab at trying to form an Eastern conference. But as the other programs delved into what he was proposing, they came to the realization that Joe’s primary motives were about what would be to the greatest benefit of PSU. Not necessarily what would be to the greatest benefit of eastern college athletics.

All water over the dam now. Looking back and playing “what if” does little good now. Pitt is in a good place competitively and ideologically in the ACC. What the future holds? Very difficult to accurately predict, IMO.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

He's right and wrong. And the play to be made was in the late 80's, PSU, Pitt, VT,FSU, WVU, Miami, Syracuse, BC form the Eastern league and then poach Maryland and say Clemson

exactly. Problem would have been is that would have required a strong commissioner driving the bus. Everyone knows that wouldn't sit well with Paterno, who would look out for only his interests and not those of the conference. He would have been the de facto commissioner and the person with the title would have been a figure head.

To this day, it still amazes me how Paterno gets zero heat in the Pittsburgh media for his role in the demise of Eastern football. Bunch of PSU fan boys who are only happy for the success of their cult leader and not the overall good of college football in the Northeast.

 

[happjack]

exactly. Problem would have been is that would have required a strong commissioner driving the bus. Everyone knows that wouldn't sit well with Paterno, who would look out for only his interests and not those of the conference. He would have been the de facto commissioner and the person with the title would have been a figure head.

To this day, it still amazes me how Paterno gets zero heat in the Pittsburgh media for his role in the demise of Eastern football. Bunch of PSU fan boys who are only happy for the success of their cult leader and not the overall good of college football in the Northeast.

THIS^^^^^^^^

Also, the ship had sailed on any kind of Eastern All Sports Conference by the 1980's, for one to have been viable and maybe survive to this day it would have needed to be formed right after WW2.

 

[pittdan77]

To this day, it still amazes me how Paterno gets zero heat in the Pittsburgh media for his role in the demise of Eastern football. Bunch of PSU fan boys who are only happy for the success of their cult leader and not the overall good of college football in the Northeast.

Nothing surprising about it. The same people who think Paterno was acting in Eastern football's best interest consider PSU to be the only relevant part of Eastern football.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

He's kind of coming off as his hands were tied, but alot of what Jim seems seems to be pining for, he stood in the way of. Actually took the lead on much of it so....blah

 

[Mufasa94]

Here's the issue on all of this. As the money grew..................the gaps grew. The Pirates payroll was equal to the Yankees and Dodgers most of the 70's and 80's. But in the 90's is when it really exploded.

O.T, but have to point out Yankees were outspending others easily when free agency started after the ‘76 season. After losing the WS, Steinbrenner signed Catfish Hunter, Don Gullet, and Reggie. The next year he got Goose Gossage after his excellant season with the Buccos.

On topic, some entertaining claims about the discussions for the conference that never was, and what would have happened.

 

[cease10]

All of you lack vision just like Delaney says.
Penn St to the Big East would have been a game changer. Northeast football would have definitely be solidified. Big East could have probably poached Maryland.

 

[NTOP]

All of you lack vision just like Delaney says.
Penn St to the Big East would have been a game changer. Northeast football would have definitely be solidified. Big East could have probably poached Maryland.

Once bitten, twice wiser. Joepa wanted a deal stacked for him. Had a sissy fit and joined the Boring Ten. The BE FB came later.