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OT: Gainey going after tax exempt status of Pitt properties

RaleighPittFan said:
What would agreeing to contract terms with an insurance company have to do with non-profit standing?

Please enlighten me, because that make absolutely no sense to me.
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Since Shapiro threatened to investigate UPMC non profit standing, UPMC agreed to a contract.
If Shapiro would have said nothing there would never have been any contract agreement with hmark.
Evidently UPMC wanted no investigation on their non profit status. If you can't see this I don't know what
to tell you.
 
pittbacker1 said:
Since Shapiro threatened to investigate UPMC non profit standing, UPMC agreed to a contract.
If Shapiro would have said nothing there would never have been any contract agreement with hmark.
Evidently UPMC wanted no investigation on their non profit status. If you can't see this I don't know what
to tell you.
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You haven’t told me anything. I asked you to, but you haven’t come up with anything.
 
Simply a way to deflect issues and blame future budget shortfalls on others. Nothing will happen, and if they do get something it won't be worth the effort and bad blood caused.

If the city was smart they'd be paying these same organizations to keep employing more and more people and driving value for the city. Pitt, CMU, and the healthcare companies are growth engines for the city. You support and incentivize these organizations, instead of taking them to court for small change that won't impact anything.
 
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RaleighPittFan said:
Fun Fact: There are hospital systems all over the country that don't take a specific carrier's insurance. In this instance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Highmark, in Pa).

It is very rare that a hospital system takes all of the insurance companies' plans in an area.
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Highmark was the first to have products that could only be used in their network. I remember back then trying to transfer a pediatric patient to childrens but couldn’t because of community blue.
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
The insurance arms of both health systems actually run the show
I can assure you as I’ve worked for both
There is zero buffer between insurance and healthcare
And I can assure you on contracting for lower cost therapeutic equivalent products - we’ve been overrided by the health plan based on reimbursement rates and rebate/kickbacks from pharma companies

Welcome to th
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I worked in heath care for my entire career. Insurace is the tail that wags the dog.
As long as you have the rebates and "back room" deals mentioned above this will
continue.
 
Gunga_Galunga said:
Simply a way to deflect issues and blame future budget shortfalls on others. Nothing will happen, and if they do get something it won't be worth the effort and bad blood caused.

If the city was smart they'd be paying these same organizations to keep employing more and more people and driving value for the city. Pitt, CMU, and the healthcare companies are growth engines for the city. You support and incentivize these organizations, instead of taking them to court for small change that won't impact anything.
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You aren’t wrong. But have you been around the city? We don’t have money to police, fix infrastructure, clean etc.

These entities provide employment, no doubt, but they also put such a burden on public services. And while I love Pitt UPMC is no Mother Theresa. If they are charging $7 a car why can’t the city get a quarter?
 
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ERICCARTMAN said:
You can't pick and choose which nonprofits you want to tax. It all theater for the constituents.
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What’s interesting is that this definitely ties to Pitt sports as well. Pitt is an easy target for this at least partially because Pitt football and basketball teams are only lukewarm with the general public. I’ve said for decades that our perennially losing (or merely decent) teams allows this garbage city government to make Pitt it’s whipping boy. The Steelers and Penguins lord over the city yet are never targets. Why? Because they are too popular. Pitt has shortchanged itself so many ways by not throwing in behind winning sports.
 
bobfree said:
You aren’t wrong. But have you been around the city? We don’t have money to police, fix infrastructure, clean etc.

These entities provide employment, no doubt, but they also put such a burden on public services. And while I love Pitt UPMC is no Mother Theresa. If they are charging $7 a car why can’t the city get a quarter?
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There's already a city tax on parking, and I don't want to debate why they are where they are.

I see it as lazy, manage for value type of governance. It plagues the entire state. Instead of doing the hard work to grow business, population, jobs, etc... they take the easy road of going after more from those that are still here.

The few million they get out of this won't be worth the effort, aggravation, and negative sentiment. It's small fries, basically a rounding error on their budget.
 
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you have a 24B dollar health care entity primarily located in your city, and you want to increase your tax revenue, you go after them with everything you have.. Honestly surprised they've made it this long with not having a bigger target on their back.

they pay less than half of real estate tax on property that they own, that's a crime.. them donating peanuts to local food banks and women's shelters doesnt change that.
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
you have a 24B dollar health care entity primarily located in your city, and you want to increase your tax revenue, you go after them with everything you have.. Honestly surprised they've made it this long with not having a bigger target on their back.

they pay less than half of real estate tax on property that they own, that's a crime.. them donating peanuts to local food banks and women's shelters doesnt change that.
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I’m with you there. I think there should be a distinction between Pitt and UPMC as UPMC is clearly a for profit entity operating as a non profit. I’m less clear on Highmark as while they are a non profit, I know some of their subsidiaries are for profit.
 
CaptainMurphy said:
I’m with you there. I think there should be a distinction between Pitt and UPMC as UPMC is clearly a for profit entity operating as a non profit. I’m less clear on Highmark as while they are a non profit, I know some of their subsidiaries are for profit.
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I second this. UPMC and AHN are clearly for-profit enterprises and deserve taxed like corporations.

The merit of doing this isn’t really a question, but more the perennial demonization of them by city government to overcome and distract from its myriad problems…graft, corruption, pocket lining, rampant crime, some of the worst schools in America. Last several admins have been increasingly reversing the hard fought gains of the renaissances (which Democrats also produced, so this is not some partisan whine ).

The frequent budgetary crises prove this city can’t or won’t manage itself properly. So even if the city got access to the deep pockets of the non profits, that money would be similarly wasted soon enough.

It’s what happens with no checks and balances. All-consuming power is a bad thing on any side.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
they pay less than half of real estate tax on property that they own, that's a crime.. them donating peanuts to local food banks and women's shelters doesnt change that.
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UPMC provides indigent care as part of the tax free status, as do most other hospitals. If the city really wants to go through with this, UPMC should tell them fine, we are truly for profit, open your own hospital then to care for the homeless, people who can't pay, etc.
 
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Millerton24 said:
Umm rinos are dems hence the acronym republican in name only. That would be the uniparty
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To call someone who is a registered Republican that wins a Republican primary, and then wins an election running as a Republican, and then votes 90% plus with Republicans a Democrat is pretty stupid don’t you think. And that describes most so called rinos.
 
ERICCARTMAN said:
All of UPMC 's profits go back into theirw hospitals and charities.
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​

Del Griffith Oh Sure Sure GIF - Del Griffith Oh Sure Sure Whatever You Say GIFs
 
The Ole Six-Fiver said:
What’s interesting is that this definitely ties to Pitt sports as well. Pitt is an easy target for this at least partially because Pitt football and basketball teams are only lukewarm with the general public. I’ve said for decades that our perennially losing (or merely decent) teams allows this garbage city government to make Pitt it’s whipping boy. The Steelers and Penguins lord over the city yet are never targets. Why? Because they are too popular. Pitt has shortchanged itself so many ways by not throwing in behind winning sports.
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Carnegie Mellon has more properties on this list than Pitt does. Pitt has one property out of the dozens that are on the listed.
 
Honestly, property taxes are a really bad way of collecting taxes because they really aren't all that equitable and they require a ton of work to maintain the databases. I completely understand the need for big entities that tie up a ton of collective resources to pay their fair share. Just think there are better ways to go about it.
 
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pittdan77 said:
Honestly, property taxes are a really bad way of collecting taxes because they really aren't all that equitable and they require a ton of work to maintain the databases. I completely understand the need for big entities that tie up a ton of collective resources to pay their fair share. Just think there are better ways to go about it.
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Yes. The property tax system in this county is unfair as the burden is placed too heavily on new homeowners. It needs to be overhauled completely across the board.

That being said I have zero concern for UPMC not paying their share given how lopsided the system is against new homeowners. They should be paying a lot more.
 
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CaptainMurphy said:
Yes. The property tax system in this county is unfair as the burden is placed too heavily on new homeowners. It needs to be overhauled completely across the board.

That being said I have zero concern for UPMC not paying their share given how lopsided the system is against new homeowners. They should be paying a lot more.
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I can't argue that.
 
Tax non-profits....change the property tax system....increase payroll taxes....blah, blah, blah. The bottom line is simple. Until the City learns to control costs and spending there is no amount of new funds that will fix the problem. Coming from California I can tell you that increasing the revenue side of the equation will never, ever solve the problem.
 
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cruzer said:
Tax non-profits....change the property tax system....increase payroll taxes....blah, blah, blah. The bottom line is simple. Until the City learns to control costs and spending there is no amount of new funds that will fix the problem. Coming from California I can tell you that increasing the revenue side of the equation will never, ever solve the problem.
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It's more about what the state and federal government require but won't pay for that blows out what is spent but that's more of an argument for another day.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
And now you get to pay more for your insurance than you would have otherwise! Hooray! Who doesn't like paying more for their insurance?

Oh, wait, that isn't what Josh Shapiro's talking point is about that issue, so maybe we shouldn't point that out to people.
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You think that’s why insurance rates have increased ?!!
Lol
C’mon
AHN always accepted upmc insurance - even before Shapiro
Upmc was the ones rejecting Highmark
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
AdvantGe is supplemental
Cheers
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You are really making yourself look pretty silly, aren’t you? You don’t know enough about the subject to recognize it. That’s hilarious.

You should not only sit this one out, but you should go into a self imposed exile.

Supplements are available to people on original medicare.

Medicare Advantage takes people off of original medicare.

Two VERY DIFFERENT approaches to medicare. You really have no clue about what you are saying, do you? Yet in all of your bravado, you‘re will to dismiss everyone else instead of trying to learn something.

For you to call advantage plan’s supplements makes me have to question anything you ever wrote.

Cheers, you pompous ass.
 
PittPharm2002 said:
You think that’s why insurance rates have increased ?!!
Lol
C’mon
AHN always accepted upmc insurance - even before Shapiro
Upmc was the ones rejecting Highmark
Click to expand...


It isn't THE reason. It absolutely is A reason.

It boggles my mind that people can't understand a concept as simple as forcing the two biggest providers of any product (and healthcare most certainly is a product) to compete with each other rather than to collude with each other will tend to drive down prices and increase quality. It is especially curious that someone who just a few weeks ago was railing against monopolies doesn't apparently understand why they are bad.
 
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