Tiger Woods

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

If someone shoots a 65 today, they can give a shot a hole to Tiger and still beat him by two. Yes, Tiger shot an 85 foday. To put that in perspective, when Arnold Palmer was finishing up playing the Master's in his mid 60's, he would still shoot like an 82.

An 85. I have shot better than an 85 before. Holy crap. An 85. Done. Toast. Never will win a major again.

 

[drunkinoakland]

If only they could stop covering him on the telecasts/highlight shows.

 

[CCHS-74]

If someone shoots a 65 today, they can give a shot a hole to Tiger and still beat him by two. Yes, Tiger shot an 85 foday. To put that in perspective, when Arnold Palmer was finishing up playing the Master's in his mid 60's, he would still shoot like an 82.

An 85. I have shot better than an 85 before. Holy crap. An 85. Done. Toast. Never will win a major again.

Have you noticed he hasn't been the same since Biogenesis was busted? Wonder why?

 

[ratking17]

He hasn't been the same since his ex wife took a club through the back windshield. I used to watch golf because of Tiger's dominance...I now actively root against the guy...

 

[drunkinoakland]

He hasn't been the same since his ex wife took a club through the back windshield. I used to watch golf because of Tiger's dominance...I now actively root against the guy...

Here is the thing, even if you took his prime and transported it to the current era, he wouldn't be the Tiger Woods that he was.

He'd still be #1 in the world and the best golfer, but he wouldn't dominate as much as he did, because the field as a whole is much deeper now. It used to be him, Vijay, and Phil. Now there is such a deep crop of guys that while he'd still likely be the best, he wouldn't be as great as he was.

 

[ratking17]

I agree, but he should be able to contend. Also agree with the biogenesis claim. His body breaks down constantly. He either is a glass man that was incredibly lucky for so many years with his health, or the PGA got wise with doping

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

His body is or has been breaking down for sure. And I don't know if he ever did PEDs or not although if forced to bet I'd say he did. But his strength isn't his problem. PEDs aren't gonna help you hit the ball straight. He's all over the place and the worst sign for a pro is if he's missing it both ways and that's what he's doing. All of these guys try to eliminate one side of the course and he can't do it. He could take PEDs from now until he quits playing and it's not going to fix what's going on now.

As far as what us weekend hacks shot compared to his 85 - stop it. I've broken par twice and shoot many rounds in the 70s and I'd consider it a pretty good day if I shot in the 90s on a course like that from where they play from.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Tiger lost his edge when he blew the 2009 PGA. Nobody feared him anymore.

Injuries haven't helped his cause either. The divorce isn't an excuse.

 

[Pghfan]

I actually finally like him after the affair. Similar to Vick, hated the guy at va tech and thru the NFL. Thought he was over rated. Soon as the dog fight happened, I actually like him. Think the media making these two out to be the black Messiah turned me off to both. Now that has changed, I can root for both now

 

[anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u]

His body is or has been breaking down for sure. And I don't know if he ever did PEDs or not although if forced to bet I'd say he did. But his strength isn't his problem. PEDs aren't gonna help you hit the ball straight. He's all over the place and the worst sign for a pro is if he's missing it both ways and that's what he's doing. All of these guys try to eliminate one side of the course and he can't do it. He could take PEDs from now until he quits playing and it's not going to fix what's going on now.

As far as what us weekend hacks shot compared to his 85 - stop it. I've broken par twice and shoot many rounds in the 70s and I'd consider it a pretty good day if I shot in the 90s on a course like that from where they play from.

Look, if you claim to be as good as to break par "twice", then you should be able to beat 85 from the tips

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

His body is or has been breaking down for sure. And I don't know if he ever did PEDs or not although if forced to bet I'd say he did. But his strength isn't his problem. PEDs aren't gonna help you hit the ball straight. He's all over the place and the worst sign for a pro is if he's missing it both ways and that's what he's doing. All of these guys try to eliminate one side of the course and he can't do it. He could take PEDs from now until he quits playing and it's not going to fix what's going on now.

As far as what us weekend hacks shot compared to his 85 - stop it. I've broken par twice and shoot many rounds in the 70s and I'd consider it a pretty good day if I shot in the 90s on a course like that from where they play from.

Agreed. If you asked me to bet if Woods (or any other professional athlete for that matter) has ever used PEDs I'd bet on yes every time and be right a lot more often than I'd be wrong. But all the PEDs in the world won't fix what's wrong with Woods' game right now. If he wants to be good again (not great, good) then he needs to start actually playing a lot more. You can't get good at golf without playing. You can practice all you want, but you have to play competitive matches to be anywhere close to your best. Frankly, at this point I'm not sure Woods cares about being good anymore.

As far as what us duffers could shot at a place like Firestone when it's set up for a pro tournament, about ten years ago I knew a group of guys who got to play out there about two weeks after the tournament. The course was still close to tournament shape, but obviously it wasn't in tournament shape. These guys were all single digit handicaps, and two of them were in the low single digits. Two of them shot in the mid 80s and the other two shot in the 90s. A course like that, in tournament condition, would embarrass a "regular" golfer.

 

[drunkinoakland]

Look, if you claim to be as good as to break par "twice", then you should be able to beat 85 from the tips

Man my buddy was a great golfer in high school and has broken par more times than anyone can count. He played a PGA course 3 days after a tournament and shot like a 91 with the same tees, rough, and pin placement. He said the rough was absolutely brutal and if you weren't on the fairway you were absolutely screwed.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Look, if you claim to be as good as to break par "twice", then you should be able to beat 85 from the tips

Look, if you claim to be as good as to break par "twice", then you should be able to beat 85 from the tips

You're absolutely clueless

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Man my buddy was a great golfer in high school and has broken par more times than anyone can count. He played a PGA course 3 days after a tournament and shot like a 91 with the same tees, rough, and pin placement. He said the rough was absolutely brutal and if you weren't on the fairway you were absolutely screwed.

Yep. Most people have no idea...none...of how good the touring pros are.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Just for fun, I looked up the course ratings for Firestone. It's course rating from the championship tees is 76.1. Note that that is not the course rating when set up for the tournament, that's the rating from the championship tees for normal, every day play. We can all decide for ourselves how much higher that number would be for the tournament, but it would obviously be several strokes higher.

So what does that mean? It means that if you are a legitimate scratch golfer and you played Firestone, if you played well (not average, but rather a good bit above your average), you'd shoot around 76. If your handicap was a ten and you played well you'd probably shoot in the mid-80s. The USGA actually estimates that a bogey golfer playing Firestone from the championship tees (again, non-tournament conditions) and who played well would average 100.7.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

And you're VERY wise to distinguish every day play from tournament play. The rough, speed of the greens, tighter mowed chipping areas, etc are NOTHING like normal play. Sometimes the fairways are even narrowed. The margin for error on a lot of shots is minimal.

I talked to a guy who played Oakmont the Monday after the last Open who had played it under normal conditions
Previously. Sounds like it might be fun right? He said he got ZERO enjoyment out of it - was complete misery - but was interesting to see what it was like.

 

[Las Panteras]

Think about the best golfer u ever played with. Maybe a teaching pro....maybe a former all conference golfer. ..maybe someone who shoots low 70s every Sunday

Whoever he is. ...he would get buried on the pro tour

There is that big a difference between them....and us.....​

 

[thebadby2]

His body is or has been breaking down for sure. And I don't know if he ever did PEDs or not although if forced to bet I'd say he did. But his strength isn't his problem. PEDs aren't gonna help you hit the ball straight. He's all over the place and the worst sign for a pro is if he's missing it both ways and that's what he's doing. All of these guys try to eliminate one side of the course and he can't do it. He could take PEDs from now until he quits playing and it's not going to fix what's going on now.

As far as what us weekend hacks shot compared to his 85 - stop it. I've broken par twice and shoot many rounds in the 70s and I'd consider it a pretty good day if I shot in the 90s on a course like that from where they play from.

He developed a low back problem while he was still in his first couple of years on tour. I heard that directly from the mouth of the man who was his swing coach at the time. They changed his swing then because the human body isn't built for the kind of torque he put on the spine, hips etc. but the damage was already done. Watch some video is him when he was young, it will jump out at you. He just broke down over time.

That said, his wife cracking him in the mouth with a 9 iron didn't help.

 

[thebadby2]

He developed a low back problem while he was still in his first couple of years on tour. I heard that directly from the mouth of the man who was his swing coach at the time. They changed his swing then because the human body isn't built for the kind of torque he put on the spine, hips etc. but the damage was already done. Watch some video is him when he was young, it will jump out at you. He just broke down over time.

That said, his wife cracking him in the mouth with a 9 iron didn't help.

Addendum-none of you golf league heroes who occasionally shoot in the 70s could stay within 15-20 strokes of Tiger Woods right now, on any course and from any set of tees. That's just ridiculous.

 

[chethejet]

Woods was done physically and now mentally is spent. Shooting 85 is bad. He may be done for good.

 

[Pitt-Chains]

If someone shoots a 65 today, they can give a shot a hole to Tiger and still beat him by two. Yes, Tiger shot an 85 foday. To put that in perspective, when Arnold Palmer was finishing up playing the Master's in his mid 60's, he would still shoot like an 82.

An 85. I have shot better than an 85 before. Holy crap. An 85. Done. Toast. Never will win a major again.

If I were tour golfer I would pissed, tiger this tiger that, he's sucks now and still follow.

Sort of reminds me of the cult, paturdo enabled and the cult still follows.

Makes no sense.

 

[wbrpanther]

If someone shoots a 65 today, they can give a shot a hole to Tiger and still beat him by two. Yes, Tiger shot an 85 foday. To put that in perspective, when Arnold Palmer was finishing up playing the Master's in his mid 60's, he would still shoot like an 82.

An 85. I have shot better than an 85 before. Holy crap. An 85. Done. Toast. Never will win a major again.

Tiger has basically been done for 5 years. Someone should tell that to the media. When you watch a tournament you see more of Tiger when tied for 47th than you see of the leaders. Totally disrespectful to the rest of today's golfers.

 

[Jeffburgh]

He did things to his body that he shouldn't have. He was just like Barry Bonds - a fine natural athlete, strong, tight. But, he used stuff to build his muscle mass to the point where it threw his body off. They both looked like freaks compared to their natural builds. Barry didn't break down physically, but you see that happen at times with guys who do this.

And, mentally, yeah, his head has just turned into mush.

He was like Jordan, had the capacity to impose his will. I really can't think of a guy like that who went south so markedly from that kind of mental dominance to where he is now.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

If I were tour golfer I would pissed, tiger this tiger that, he's sucks now and still follow.

Sort of reminds me of the cult, paturdo enabled and the cult still follows.

Makes no sense.

Some probably gripe about him but they all recognize he's the primary reason they all make as much money as they do. Used to be the mid range guys didn't make all that much. Certainly not enough to live the lifestyles of the current day golfer. And the fact remains that Tiger, despite his poor play and now sordid history, is good for the game generally - and you better believe those guys all know it.

 

[MajorMajors]

Tiger could be headed for a "Duval"... At one point in the late 90s, David Duval won 11 of 34 tournaments.

Golf is a very difficult game.

Go Pitt.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Tiger lost his edge when he blew the 2009 PGA. Nobody feared him anymore.

Injuries haven't helped his cause either. The divorce isn't an excuse.

Yeah, but that was an "edge". When guys went head to head and wilted. He does the wilting now. I mean, he is becoming David Duval.

 

[wbrpanther]

Tiger could be headed for a "Duval"... At one point in the late 90s, David Duval won 11 of 34 tournaments.

Golf is a very difficult game.

Go Pitt.

Golf is REALLY a difficult game the way I play it.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Addendum-none of you golf league heroes who occasionally shoot in the 70s could stay within 15-20 strokes of Tiger Woods right now, on any course and from any set of tees. That's just ridiculous.

That is not the point of this thread. The point is on how bad Tiger is now. I mean, BAD! Why are yinz turning this into a High School Hero. thread?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Why are yinz turning this into a High School Hero. thread?

Remind us all again who it was who started this thread by pointing out that they had shot a better score than Woods' score today.

 

[thebadby2]

Some probably gripe about him but they all recognize he's the primary reason they all make as much money as they do. Used to be the mid range guys didn't make all that much. Certainly not enough to live the lifestyles of the current day golfer. And the fact remains that Tiger, despite his poor play and now sordid history, is good for the game generally - and you better believe those guys all know it.

That is 100% true, and many tour players have admitted as much publicly over the years.

 

[thebadby2]

He did things to his body that he shouldn't have. He was just like Barry Bonds - a fine natural athlete, strong, tight. But, he used stuff to build his muscle mass to the point where it threw his body off. They both looked like freaks compared to their natural builds. Barry didn't break down physically, but you see that happen at times with guys who do this.

And, mentally, yeah, his head has just turned into mush.

He was like Jordan, had the capacity to impose his will. I really can't think of a guy like that who went south so markedly from that kind of mental dominance to where he is now.

Agree with most of that Jeff, especially the Jordan comparison. Two of the most mentally tough competitors of all time. To the extent he used PEDs, I don't think it was for the explicit purpose of building muscle mass (even though it appears to have had that effect) as much as it was to overcome his nagging bad back and enable his body to bounce back more quickly from event to event. He had the beginnings of a major back problem when he was 19-20 years old, and changed his swing a couple of times early on to decrease the rotational torque on his low back. But the biggest problem really does seem to be between the ears. He went from being one of the most mentally tough competitive athletes ever to the guy he is now. The fall was precipitous after his wife clocked him.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Remind us all again who it was who started this thread by pointing out that they had shot a better score than Woods' score today.

I shot an 84 once. I wasn't comparing myself, just merely trying to highlight how truly awful an 85 is on the PGA tour, in relatively benign conditions.

 

[MajorMajors]

When he started out, I thought Tiger would be a flash-in-the-pan simply because he swung the club so hard. How do you play a precision game when you are swinging the club that fast? OK, I was wrong about the flash-in-the-pan, but once the confidence goes, I think it's even tougher for the hard swingers to come back...

Go Pitt.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Certainly PED's can be an explanation for his body breakdowns, especially considering his famous workout regimes before. But......to lose it all....sure a lot of it is mental, it is confidence, but Barry Bonds was a great baseball player before PED's. Same with Tiger.

Compare him with a guy like Jim Furyk. Ugly swing, never a distance guy. Just a grinder. Furyk has been able to put together a long and likely Hall of Fame career without half of the skills that Tiger has had. Furyk has always been a singles hitter.

 

[Ray-Ray]

Woods was done physically and now mentally is spent. Shooting 85 is bad. He may be done for good.

He may be done, but the networks still follow him around more than any other golfer.

 

[geeman2001]

Some probably gripe about him but they all recognize he's the primary reason they all make as much money as they do. Used to be the mid range guys didn't make all that much. Certainly not enough to live the lifestyles of the current day golfer. And the fact remains that Tiger, despite his poor play and now sordid history, is good for the game generally - and you better believe those guys all know it.

He may be done, but the networks still follow him around more than any other golfer.

He's like the Cowboys or Yankees or Lakers now. Even if irrelevant, they are the best-known (and hated, if not necessarily loved) icons of their respective sports, so as such a given amount of coverage must be given to them to keep the casual viewer interested.

The Steelers are close to the Cowboys in that regard, explaining why they get so many Sunday and Monday night games, even after a bunch of mediocre seasons.

 

[Pghfan]

I broke 90 at quicksilver while knocking back 2 separate 6 packs. Don't see tiger drinking 12 beers out there. Coward.

 

[Pitt-Chains]

I broke 90 at quicksilver while knocking back 2 separate 6 packs. Don't see tiger drinking 12 beers out there. Coward.

He was thinking of 12 waitresses not beers.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

He's like the Cowboys or Yankees or Lakers now. Even if irrelevant, they are the best-known (and hated, if not necessarily loved) icons of their respective sports, so as such a given amount of coverage must be given to them to keep the casual viewer interested.

The Steelers are close to the Cowboys in that regard, explaining why they get so many Sunday and Monday night games, even after a bunch of mediocre seasons.

But Tiger isn't getting the coverage because he is not even a factor in these tourneys anymore. Of course on Day 1 if he is on the course, the network is going to show him over Kevin Streelman or Patrick Reed.

 

[thebadby2]

I broke 90 at quicksilver while knocking back 2 separate 6 packs. Don't see tiger drinking 12 beers out there. Coward.

he may want to try that--it may actually help his game. I know it helps mine. Don't think, just drink.